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I am reminded of when everyone rallied around Lance Armstrong and said he never would cheat; he was just a nice, honest guy that would never lie; he did but no one wanted to believe it.

 Blokus wrote:
Kraft accepts NFL Punishment!!!!

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/robert-kraft-drops-the-fight--says-he-ll-accept-deflate-gate-punishment-171900816.html

But Brady isn't. This gak ain't hardly over.

Much egg will still be worn by the commissioner.

Steroids...vs possible ball deflation. A poor comparison. A good comparison would be - do you think tom brady would ever consider steroid?

 Xenomancers wrote:
Steroids...vs possible ball deflation. A poor comparison. A good comparison would be - do you think tom brady would ever consider steroid?

Well no, it isn't the specific incident, it is about peoples reaction to it. I don't know if Brady did it or not, but if he did no one that wants to believe him will think he did. People swore Armstrong would never do anything either but that was not the case. If it helps instead think of when people said the NSA would never spy on Americans until it was shown they absolutely were. If he did cheat people that want to believe he didn't will swear he didn't and people who do think he cheated won't be persuaded to believe he didn't. Overall it is more of a problem of the Pats having a reputation and perception issue, it seems.

I still think steroids should be legal.
Because watching sports is boring. Now if sports was filled with over muscled men who could turn angry at the drop of a hat, it would be much more fun.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I still think steroids should be legal.
Because watching sports is boring. Now if sports was filled with over muscled men who could turn angry at the drop of a hat, it would be much more fun.

I disagree. As I keep telling my wife, what I think football really needs to be more exciting is ninjas.

What about Ninjas on roids?

What about staying on topic?

 Ahtman wrote:
I am reminded of when everyone rallied around Lance Armstrong and said he never would cheat; he was just a nice, honest guy that would never lie; he did but no one wanted to believe it.

Ha!... you said Lance Armstrong was a nice guy.... Lol.

I know that I, for one, was an Armstrong supporter. Based on the simple fact that, even now, the cycling world NEVER had a positive test on him. He did finally cave after multiple years of witch hunts. Now... it just turns out that he was no better or worse than anyone else in that field (seriously, you vacate his 7 TDF victories, they wanted to award them to the next guy... well, the next 48 or 49 cyclists on that list have all been stripped for doping as well)






As to this news of Kraft just "taking" the punishment. I wonder if his legal team advised him against it in order to save this little incident for a "rainy day", such as building a case to get rid of Goodell altogether.

Maybe they are just actually guilty?

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
I am reminded of when everyone rallied around Lance Armstrong and said he never would cheat; he was just a nice, honest guy that would never lie; he did but no one wanted to believe it.

Ha!... you said Lance Armstrong was a nice guy.... Lol.

I know that I, for one, was an Armstrong supporter. Based on the simple fact that, even now, the cycling world NEVER had a positive test on him. He did finally cave after multiple years of witch hunts. Now... it just turns out that he was no better or worse than anyone else in that field (seriously, you vacate his 7 TDF victories, they wanted to award them to the next guy... well, the next 48 or 49 cyclists on that list have all been stripped for doping as well)






As to this news of Kraft just "taking" the punishment. I wonder if his legal team advised him against it in order to save this little incident for a "rainy day", such as building a case to get rid of Goodell altogether.

The strange thing with cycling is that "doping" isn't steroids or anything like that...

It's taking medications to increase your red blood cells and your oxygen intake. Not exactly all that different than taking supplements for your workouts.

As to Kraft accepting the punishment... I think it's more that they want to bury it and that it becomes "old news" by start of next season.

 whembly wrote:

As to Kraft accepting the punishment... I think it's more that they want to bury it and that it becomes "old news" by start of next season.

Which I guess it will be, until week 1 rolls around.

Which... how crazy would it be if Garrapolo (sp?) went 4-0, completely like, 80% of his passes, threw 16 TD passes (on and on), then in week 5, Brady loses, completes only 50-60% of his passes, gets picked, etc. Essentially having The backup pull a Brady, and Brady becoming the new Bledsloe of the Patriots team

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 whembly wrote:

As to Kraft accepting the punishment... I think it's more that they want to bury it and that it becomes "old news" by start of next season.

Which I guess it will be, until week 1 rolls around.

Which... how crazy would it be if Garrapolo (sp?) went 4-0, completely like, 80% of his passes, threw 16 TD passes (on and on), then in week 5, Brady loses, completes only 50-60% of his passes, gets picked, etc. Essentially having The backup pull a Brady, and Brady becoming the new Bledsloe of the Patriots team

That would be delicious! I've seen him play as the Illini QB... he has a chance to be really good.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Steroids...vs possible ball deflation. A poor comparison. A good comparison would be - do you think tom brady would ever consider steroid?

Well no, it isn't the specific incident, it is about peoples reaction to it. I don't know if Brady did it or not, but if he did no one that wants to believe him will think he did. People swore Armstrong would never do anything either but that was not the case. If it helps instead think of when people said the NSA would never spy on Americans until it was shown they absolutely were. If he did cheat people that want to believe he didn't will swear he didn't and people who do think he cheated won't be persuaded to believe he didn't. Overall it is more of a problem of the Pats having a reputation and perception issue, it seems.

I agree - pats have a reputation. I don't particularly agree with that reputation but they do have it. Brady however - has a good reputation - as a good sportsman. He never speaks i'll of others. Always shakes hands after the game - win or lose. The only negative attention he ever gets is for the "tuck rule" which some think was cheating but actually it's just the way the games rules work. He could have known about some deflated balls, he could have had nothing to do with it. It's bunk to punish a man for something you can't prove because he won a super-bowl because of the tuck rule - he won 2 more after that - with no tuck required. In fact I havn't seen him tuck since lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 whembly wrote:

As to Kraft accepting the punishment... I think it's more that they want to bury it and that it becomes "old news" by start of next season.

Which I guess it will be, until week 1 rolls around.

Which... how crazy would it be if Garrapolo (sp?) went 4-0, completely like, 80% of his passes, threw 16 TD passes (on and on), then in week 5, Brady loses, completes only 50-60% of his passes, gets picked, etc. Essentially having The backup pull a Brady, and Brady becoming the new Bledsloe of the Patriots team

That would be delicious! I've seen him play as the Illini QB... he has a chance to be really good.

I'm going to be completely honest here. Brady is not that good. Hes a great short passer but outside of 15 yards theres plenty that are better than him. Any QB will flurish in a BB system. Proven by Matt Cassel in 2008. The real strength of brady is determination and his inspiring presence on young people at this point - his years of breaking records are over.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Blokus wrote:
Kraft accepts NFL Punishment!!!!

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/robert-kraft-drops-the-fight--says-he-ll-accept-deflate-gate-punishment-171900816.html

But Brady isn't. This gak ain't hardly over.

Much egg will still be worn by the commissioner.

back hand deal for sure - in a few weeks we shall all be following the headlines.

Bradys suspension removed and fine reduced. First round pick reinstated.

There is 0.0% chance the fine/draft picks get reduced from the pats and it's crazy talk to suggest otherwise IMO. It's already happened and they aren't appealing. The NFL isn't going to just go back and say "yah maybe that was excessive". Brady's appeal is a whole other matter. This whole situation really took the air out of my sails as a patriots fan. Not saying I won't watch or root for the team but it really put a damper on my pumpitude for football in a couple months.

Chance... root for Jimmy Garoppolo.

JAG is awesome. All in due time though. Brady is not finished by any stretch. I hope we pull a GB and go from Brady to the next Aaron Rodgers ;p from what I've seen JAG has that kind of potential especially learning behind Brady.

 Ahtman wrote:
Well no, it isn't the specific incident, it is about peoples reaction to it. I don't know if Brady did it or not, but if he did no one that wants to believe him will think he did. People swore Armstrong would never do anything either but that was not the case.

Yeah, and when Armstrong was absolutely proved guilty, then people just invented the new argument 'well everyone was doing it so that makes it okay'. Which I think is basically people trying to shift their argument to avoid admitting they were wrong in the first place.

Anyhow, I think you're right that this Patriots thing feels a lot like Armstrong. Obviously its on a way smaller scale, but the reactions are kind of the same - lots of points of view that are just really weird, until you start to pick apart the motivations underpinning them. There's certainly a dislike for the commission has led a lot of people to oppose their actions here. And probably some Patriots fans just sticking up for their team.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Ha!... you said Lance Armstrong was a nice guy.... Lol.

I know that I, for one, was an Armstrong supporter. Based on the simple fact that, even now, the cycling world NEVER had a positive test on him. He did finally cave after multiple years of witch hunts. Now... it just turns out that he was no better or worse than anyone else in that field (seriously, you vacate his 7 TDF victories, they wanted to award them to the next guy... well, the next 48 or 49 cyclists on that list have all been stripped for doping as well)

Armstrong never having a positive test says nothing about Armstrong, but a whole lot about the utterly corrupt state of drug testing during that period in cycling.

And in general, I'd recommend you read in to what was actually going on throughout the Armstrong drugs period. Armstrong wasn't just another rider. Instead, through a close relationship with Michele Ferrari and other doctors, Armstrong organised drugs for other riders, and through control of the source manipulated gained considerable advantage for himself, not least of which was ensuring he had a tremendously strong team riding to support him.

Seriously, the only possible response is the one taken - draw a red line through those years, take Armstrong's titles and give them to no-one.

 sebster wrote:

Armstrong never having a positive test says nothing about Armstrong, but a whole lot about the utterly corrupt state of drug testing during that period in cycling.

Most forms of blood doping wouldn't show up on a drug screen.

 sebster wrote:

Seriously, the only possible response is the one taken - draw a red line through those years, take Armstrong's titles and give them to no-one.

Sure, because Armstrong violated the rules...but there needs to be a second conversation regarding the nature of those rules.

Rex Ryan has a foot fetish. He's also our new head coach, so I support anything that gives the Bills a chance of snapping our record playoff drought

DutchWinsAll wrote:
Rex Ryan has a foot fetish. He's also our new head coach, so I support anything that gives the Bills a chance of snapping our record playoff drought

That's probably still not happening this year...

Chancetragedy wrote:
There is 0.0% chance the fine/draft picks get reduced from the pats and it's crazy talk to suggest otherwise IMO. It's already happened and they aren't appealing. The NFL isn't going to just go back and say "yah maybe that was excessive". Brady's appeal is a whole other matter. This whole situation really took the air out of my sails as a patriots fan. Not saying I won't watch or root for the team but it really put a damper on my pumpitude for football in a couple months.

Yeah the lost draft pick is likely going to stick - owner sold us out. This doesn't effect me as a patriots fan at all. I am used to/expect this kind of treatment from all non pats fans and ofc from the biggest idiot to be NFL commissar.