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 Frazzled wrote:

In the context of exploring the back stories of the characters, which will be happening with the publication of several graphic novels and comics (as well as a possible cartoon/anime) the politics are relevant to the world creation, and what happened to cause the society that exists in that world (as well as the forces trying to re-build it (notice that in EVERY Mad Max movie, it is a strong female character working to re-build civilization without the warring strife created by testosterone fueled violence).

*Mad Max-don't see it.
*Road Warrior. Er, there was a dude in charge. There was a lady mechanic and a lady warrior but that was about it so...no.
*Thunderdome. Are you arguing thunderdome avoided strife? The later aboriginal chick was just one character and she wasn't trying to rebuild society...so no.

Then argue with George Miller, because these are his points.

MB

Only if he buy's me a bottle of bourbon first. i don't argue on an empty stomach.

 Frazzled wrote:
Only if he buy's me a bottle of bourbon first. i don't argue on an empty stomach.

I think he would be completely into that.

He seems to be a keeper of social customs, and observer of various forms of traditional Culture (again, with the Capital-C) that are deemed worth preserving.

MB

BeAfraid wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

In the context of exploring the back stories of the characters, which will be happening with the publication of several graphic novels and comics (as well as a possible cartoon/anime) the politics are relevant to the world creation, and what happened to cause the society that exists in that world (as well as the forces trying to re-build it (notice that in EVERY Mad Max movie, it is a strong female character working to re-build civilization without the warring strife created by testosterone fueled violence).

*Mad Max-don't see it.
*Road Warrior. Er, there was a dude in charge. There was a lady mechanic and a lady warrior but that was about it so...no.
*Thunderdome. Are you arguing thunderdome avoided strife? The later aboriginal chick was just one character and she wasn't trying to rebuild society...so no.

Then argue with George Miller, because these are his points.

MB

Well, you are the person using his opinions. He must be getting senile.
There were 5 female characters in Road Warrior-
1. Gyrocaptain's love interest.
2. Warrior woman who gets shot in the chest and thrown under the rig.
3. Old lady who wanted to accept lord Humongus's terms.
4. And a raider chick who shows off her baps.
5. And a white robed woman who comes to a bad end to establish how evil the raiders are.

Not many feminist overtones in that film I'm afraid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In other news- this trailer made me have a giggle fit.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Does it matter? Will the fact that it's feminist or not make or break it? What does anyone hope to gain from defining the movie? Who will care?

If it can get people to stop crying “CENSORSHIP!!! POLITICALLY CORRECT!!! FEMINISM RUINS EVERYTHING!!!” every time someone pushes for more of this, then yeah, it would matter.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

In the context of exploring the back stories of the characters, which will be happening with the publication of several graphic novels and comics (as well as a possible cartoon/anime) the politics are relevant to the world creation, and what happened to cause the society that exists in that world (as well as the forces trying to re-build it (notice that in EVERY Mad Max movie, it is a strong female character working to re-build civilization without the warring strife created by testosterone fueled violence).

*Mad Max-don't see it.
*Road Warrior. Er, there was a dude in charge. There was a lady mechanic and a lady warrior but that was about it so...no.
*Thunderdome. Are you arguing thunderdome avoided strife? The later aboriginal chick was just one character and she wasn't trying to rebuild society...so no.

Then argue with George Miller, because these are his points.

MB

Well, you are the person using his opinions. He must be getting senile.
There were 5 female characters in Road Warrior-
1. Gyrocaptain's love interest.
2. Warrior woman who gets shot in the chest and thrown under the rig.
3. Old lady who wanted to accept lord Humongus's terms.
4. And a raider chick who shows off her baps.
5. And a white robed woman who comes to a bad end to establish how evil the raiders are.

Not many feminist overtones in that film I'm afraid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In other news- this trailer made me have a giggle fit.

The existence of Strong Female Characters does not mean they have to survive.

The Road Warrior presents a step in the progression of female characters rising in prominence in Miller's Mad Max movies from film to film.

Personally... I take George Miller at his word that the overall message of the Mad Max Franchise is essentially feminist, in that it presents male dominance as being essentially violent and toxic.

MB

I just don't see it- especially in the Road Warrior. After watching it again a couple days ago there wasn't much feminism going on to me. The one strong woman with 5 minutes of screen time doesn't make the whole movie feminist.

I can see the argument for Fury Road, but I went in (mostly) blind and it didn't grind my gears at all. If it was totally feminist and progressive and PC it was told in a good way as far as I'm concerned.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I just don't see it- especially in the Road Warrior. After watching it again a couple days ago there wasn't much feminism going on to me. The one strong woman with 5 minutes of screen time doesn't make the whole movie feminist.

I can see the argument for Fury Road, but I went in (mostly) blind and it didn't grind my gears at all. If it was totally feminist and progressive and PC it was told in a good way as far as I'm concerned.

Most people are not really aware of what REAL Feminism, or Political Correctness is, and instead are only familiar with the insane, and equally toxic misandrist versions of these put forward by the radical leftists, and Identity Politics Extremists, who are just as pathological as are the Men's Rights Activists who tend to stupidly believe that the extremists of the feminist movement are all that exists.

They tend to think feminism is about Female Domination, instead of Female Equality. There are some aspects of femininity that need to be more dominant in out society, but this is only because our current attitudes about masculinity have lost track of these qualities.

It is important to remember that we are going to continue to be a world that consists of both male and female for some time to come, and that neither represent a "dominant sex/gender."

MB

BeAfraid wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I just don't see it- especially in the Road Warrior. After watching it again a couple days ago there wasn't much feminism going on to me. The one strong woman with 5 minutes of screen time doesn't make the whole movie feminist.

I can see the argument for Fury Road, but I went in (mostly) blind and it didn't grind my gears at all. If it was totally feminist and progressive and PC it was told in a good way as far as I'm concerned.

Most people are not really aware of what REAL Feminism, or Political Correctness is, and instead are only familiar with the insane, and equally toxic misandrist versions of these put forward by the radical leftists, and Identity Politics Extremists, who are just as pathological as are the Men's Rights Activists who tend to stupidly believe that the extremists of the feminist movement are all that exists.

They tend to think feminism is about Female Domination, instead of Female Equality. There are some aspects of femininity that need to be more dominant in out society, but this is only because our current attitudes about masculinity have lost track of these qualities.

It is important to remember that we are going to continue to be a world that consists of both male and female for some time to come, and that neither represent a "dominant sex/gender."

MB

Presenting men as toxic and the sum of everything that is wrong with our society sounds pretty extreme to me.

BeAfraid wrote:
There are some aspects of femininity that need to be more dominant in out society, but this is only because our current attitudes about masculinity have lost track of these qualities.

It is important to remember that we are going to continue to be a world that consists of both male and female for some time to come, and that neither represent a "dominant sex/gender."

So you seem to want some kind of equal but different stuff where people are still attributed some specific characteristics and roles depending on their genitalia or what?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:
There are some aspects of femininity that need to be more dominant in out society, but this is only because our current attitudes about masculinity have lost track of these qualities.

It is important to remember that we are going to continue to be a world that consists of both male and female for some time to come, and that neither represent a "dominant sex/gender."

So you seem to want some kind of equal but different stuff where people are still attributed some specific characteristics and roles depending on their genitalia or what?

I don't think anyone is callin for that, just merely saying feminism doesn't equal female domination of man. Also that there are qualities we identify as masculine and feminine- some need to be dropped and others ported over for both.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I don't think anyone is callin for that

Tons of people are calling from this. We all come from societies where these different roles are deeply ingrained. A few people will tell you that they want these roles to go on explicitly. Those are usually either on the MRA or very conservative side. Many people will not tell you that they want those roles to go on, but will very strongly defend the status quo where those roles still influence us a lot, while pretending that those gender roles are completely over and do not exist anymore.

Is this happening in France?

 -Shrike- wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I just don't see it- especially in the Road Warrior. After watching it again a couple days ago there wasn't much feminism going on to me. The one strong woman with 5 minutes of screen time doesn't make the whole movie feminist.

I can see the argument for Fury Road, but I went in (mostly) blind and it didn't grind my gears at all. If it was totally feminist and progressive and PC it was told in a good way as far as I'm concerned.

Most people are not really aware of what REAL Feminism, or Political Correctness is, and instead are only familiar with the insane, and equally toxic misandrist versions of these put forward by the radical leftists, and Identity Politics Extremists, who are just as pathological as are the Men's Rights Activists who tend to stupidly believe that the extremists of the feminist movement are all that exists.

They tend to think feminism is about Female Domination, instead of Female Equality. There are some aspects of femininity that need to be more dominant in out society, but this is only because our current attitudes about masculinity have lost track of these qualities.

It is important to remember that we are going to continue to be a world that consists of both male and female for some time to come, and that neither represent a "dominant sex/gender."

MB

Presenting men as toxic and the sum of everything that is wrong with our society sounds pretty extreme to me.

Only that would not be what was presented as "Toxic."

What was presented as Toxic was a particular type of masculinity that is especially testosterone driven.

This is make clear all through the series.

It is certainly not the toxic elements of femininity (which do exist in a tiny fringe of society) that are causing problems with the glorification of violence, greed, and acquisition in our world. These are all recognized "masculine" traits in sociological, anthropological, and historical contexts.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:
There are some aspects of femininity that need to be more dominant in out society, but this is only because our current attitudes about masculinity have lost track of these qualities.

It is important to remember that we are going to continue to be a world that consists of both male and female for some time to come, and that neither represent a "dominant sex/gender."

So you seem to want some kind of equal but different stuff where people are still attributed some specific characteristics and roles depending on their genitalia or what?

Nope. That would be a reductionist oversimplification (a "Strawman") of the issue.

MB

 Alpharius wrote:
Is this happening in France?

What kind of question is that?

BeAfraid wrote:
That would be a reductionist oversimplification (a "Strawman") of the issue.

So what is the long unsimplified version?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Is this happening in France?

What kind of question is that?

BeAfraid wrote:
That would be a reductionist oversimplification (a "Strawman") of the issue.

So what is the long unsimplified version?

Actually spending the time researching the various feminist philosophies and how they fit into the overall sociological picture.



MB

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Is this happening in France?

One where I'm trying to determine where you're seeing a lot of this/coming up with your material/etc.?

Well, mostly on the internet, and it seems similar on French-speaking and English-speaking websites…

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
So...apparently Tom Hardy used to use Myspace.

http://www.unilad.co.uk/articles/someone-found-tom-hardys-old-myspace-and-its-hilarious/

Who takes that many pictures of themselves in their underwear?

 kronk wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
So...apparently Tom Hardy used to use Myspace.

http://www.unilad.co.uk/articles/someone-found-tom-hardys-old-myspace-and-its-hilarious/

Who takes that many pictures of themselves in their underwear?

Aspiring underwear models?

Feminism? If it makes women equals and capable of living their own lives I'm all for it. That's only fair.

Once you get to the level of Swedish crazy Gudrun Schyman, a leftist politician who founded a Feminist Initiative Party I'm not quite interested anymore. She actually brought forth a law initiative to study how much violence men do to women and how much taxes should be increased on men to make up for it. Yes, some men beat women - but she wanted to make every man pay for it. That's certainly not fair.

Isn't the original Mad Max about showing the horrors of car violence? I seem to remember that George Miller was originally a doctor and wanted to make a movie about showing car violence (he had lost 3 friends to car accidents as a teenager) and thought audiences would find the story

more believable if it was set in a future post-apocalyptic world rather than a real one.

First Mad Max world did not feel post-apocalyptic at all. No spoiler, but there is still a functioning state, with rule of law and all. Max is a cop. Like a real one, with wages and rules to follow and all that. There are supermarket around the road, and you can still buy ice-cream at gas stations.

Spetulhu wrote:
Once you get to the level of Swedish crazy Gudrun Schyman, a leftist politician who founded a Feminist Initiative Party I'm not quite interested anymore. She actually brought forth a law initiative to study how much violence men do to women and how much taxes should be increased on men to make up for it. Yes, some men beat women - but she wanted to make every man pay for it. That's certainly not fair.

I am preeeetty sure the man-tax was a PR ploy made for awareness, never intended for actual use.

The feminist initiative party is fine. The only crazy thing going on 'round these parts is the absurd and done-to-death 'feminists don't want equality' meme.

 Ashiraya wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
Once you get to the level of Swedish crazy Gudrun Schyman, a leftist politician who founded a Feminist Initiative Party I'm not quite interested anymore. She actually brought forth a law initiative to study how much violence men do to women and how much taxes should be increased on men to make up for it. Yes, some men beat women - but she wanted to make every man pay for it. That's certainly not fair.

I am preeeetty sure the man-tax was a PR ploy made for awareness, never intended for actual use.

The feminist initiative party is fine. The only crazy thing going on 'round these parts is the absurd and done-to-death 'feminists don't want equality' meme.

Ploy or not it sure makes them look bat gak nuts.

 Ashiraya wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
Once you get to the level of Swedish crazy Gudrun Schyman, a leftist politician who founded a Feminist Initiative Party I'm not quite interested anymore. She actually brought forth a law initiative to study how much violence men do to women and how much taxes should be increased on men to make up for it. Yes, some men beat women - but she wanted to make every man pay for it. That's certainly not fair.

I am preeeetty sure the man-tax was a PR ploy made for awareness, never intended for actual use.

The feminist initiative party is fine. The only crazy thing going on 'round these parts is the absurd and done-to-death 'feminists don't want equality' meme.

So you deny that Feminism has a very vocal, far left fringe?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
First Mad Max world did not feel post-apocalyptic at all. No spoiler, but there is still a functioning state, with rule of law and all. Max is a cop. Like a real one, with wages and rules to follow and all that. There are supermarket around the road, and you can still buy ice-cream at gas stations.

The first film is set at the 11th hour. Resources are becoming scarce, the world is descending into lawlessness, civil society is collapsing. And then a nuclear apocalypse erupts (between films 1 and 2).

Mad Max 2 - society has collapsed several years prior and the world is truly a post apocalypse.

New comic book about Furiosa's origin story



Director George Miller, Fury Road co-writer Nico Lathouris and Fury Road storyboard artist Mark Sexton all wrote the issue. Mad Max: Fury Road — Furiosa is out this Wednesday, June 17th.

May have to find somewhere to pick that up

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
mThe first film is set at the 11th hour. Resources are becoming scarce, the world is descending into lawlessness, civil society is collapsing. And then a nuclear apocalypse erupts (between films 1 and 2).

Mad Max 2 - society has collapsed several years prior and the world is truly a post apocalypse.

Yeah, but the first movie really feel more like bikersploitation meets vigilante movie than anything else.

Thanks for the heads up Cheesecat. My wife will definitely be interested. As will I.