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A daemon is bundle of Warp energy that has coalesced into something approaching sentience. It is theoretically possible for such a being to encompass just about any emotion... but the Warp of M41 being what it is, they're almost all universally destructive creatures.

While there are many kinds of Daemons that are part of, or spawned from, or otherwise associated with a specific Ruinous Power, there are even more unaligned Daemons that are simply the common residents of the Warp. Some of these can be quite powerful, indeed, but are often utterly alien to mortal conception.

Given that they are, regardless of outlook or form or alignment, formed from the raw stuff of the Warp, they are usually pretty twisted in appearance, though this may also depend on what kind of emotion forms the creature.

Of course, to the Imperium, any and all forms of daemon are bad, and to associate with one (other than to destroy it) is the darkest of heresies and gets you burned at the stake. So even a "nice" daemon is subject to destruction at the hands of the Inquisition or those forces with the ability to do such.

 Sillycybin wrote:
Are daemons just fragments of their gods? Do they have their own existences / personalities? Is it possible for some to be misunderstood such as the tailed beasts in naruto? OR do they always just reflect a raw emotion?

Do daemons ever seek peaceful moments or are they full throttle malice 100% of the time?

Yes. Yes. Doesn't seem like it. Not necessarily (I guess the warp is chaotic enough that even Khorne daemons laugh and Slaanesh daemons get mad. Ditto for the gods themselves, really. Though that might just be author-error)

As for peaceful moments or non-malice, that's kind of a yes for any non-Khorne daemon. Khorne Daemons will only tolerate working with others (including other Khorne daemons) not because they like them but to fulfill a purpose (Khorne is very purpose-focused. That purpose tends to primarily be killing, of course). They don't like you, and no good Khorne follower should like them either (note that Respect and Like are not necessarily the same thing). Khorne is hate, and they are supposed to hate you and everyone else. Fortunately Khorne is also straight-forward and against dirty tricks so they can still be worked with as long as it works towards their purpose.

Other daemons, however, will not necessarily be out to screw over someone all the time, although fluff cases are somewhat rare. Lords of Change actively train up mortal sorcerors sometimes without screwing them over nec but pawns aren't ALWAYS sacrificed)eir plots but pawns aren't ALWAYS sacrificed). Slaanesh daemons have lots of ways to play that don't involve violence. And Nurgle daemons are probably the most well-adjusted of all, really. (I've yet to see a fluff case of nurgle daemons screwing over nurgle followers to my recollection. At least, on purpose. Non-Nurgle followers are more hit-and-miss, but that's more typical 40k politics or Nurgle orange and blue morality than actual malice).

 Sillycybin wrote:
Are daemons just fragments of their gods? Do they have their own existences / personalities? Is it possible for some to be misunderstood such as the tailed beasts in naruto? OR do they always just reflect a raw emotion?

Do daemons ever seek peaceful moments or are they full throttle malice 100% of the time?

Most daemons are fragments of their gods, but Daemon Princes are former mortals who have been transformed into warp beings. DP's obviously have their own personalities since they used to be people, but they're limited in their freedom, because their god can mess them up in all kinds of nasty ways if they disobey. Other daemons seem to have more personality depending on how powerful they are. The bigger the fragment, the more personality it will develop. But their personalities will still be defined by the emotion their god represents. You won't get a Khorne daemon that believes in sparing lives, or a Slaanesh daemon that will manipulate people to temperance and abstinence. That would be totally contrary to their nature.

As far as peaceful moments or being 'misunderstood,' daemons could be non hostile, or even helpful to mortals for a variety of reasons. Khorne daemons will never be "peaceful" per say, but they may help someone who has been wronged get revenge, if that revenge involves a whole lotta killing. Khorne daemons will always be focused on causing war, death, and fighting, since that what their about. They're probably the most honest daemons too though. A Khorne daemon is much less likely to lie to you about its intentions than a Tzeentch daemon.

Meanwhile, both Tzeentch and Slaanesh daemons would be totally willing to help mortals if it furthered their own ends. Both Tzeentch and Slaanesh view people as tools (or in Slaanesh's case, usually playthings). They don't hate mortals, unless those mortals go ruin their plans (and everything is part of Tzeentch's plans). Nurgle daemons, meanwhile, are downright friendly. You just can't get near them without dying of a horrible disease unless you're a Nurgle worshiper. I imagine Nurgle daemons and mortal Nurgle worshipers are total bros with each other in their downtime.

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I haven't ever seen anything pointing towards a benevolent daemon, but I guess some wouldn't be as oriented to evil as others, as mentioned previously. I have heard it mentioned that primarchs are kinda like daemons of the Emperor, which is an idea that fascinates me, as they share traits from him and were created from him, which in a sense is like daemon's from chaos gods. If you were to look at primarchs like that, then not all daemon's are evil, although it's not actually as if the primarchs are daemons, which are beings of the warp, but I hope these odd ramblings help in any way.

Nurgle isnt evil is it?

Blessings of nurgle
Grandfather nurgle
They are giving the blessings of immortality
Not really war or hate or anything like that.

It would be the viewpoint of humans to think of it as evil because we dont like ugly bodies and pus.

For minimum wage and zero-hour contracts. There's no dental or medical either, which explains why they are always trying to get away from the nasty Dark Gods and into the shining eutopia that is Imperialism.

Well I think you asking if there is any "good" daemons?
If so maybe maybe not most are tied to one of the big 4 because they have little choice there is no "enemy of my enemy" for the most part so either join them or be killed by them. The God have such a huge influence on the "oceans" of warp juice and that the birth place of daemons.

It is theoretically possible that, with sufficient concentration of "positive" emotional energies, there could be "Angels of the Warp" to counter the Daemons... this is one theory that many fans use to explain Living Saints, incidentally.

The only daemons that wouldn't want to kill you are Nurgle daemons. It may seem at first like Tzeentch and Slaanesh daemons might spare third parties for their own...purposes but at the end of the day daemons are soul-hungry. Plaguebearers are exceptional in that they're probably actually not soul hungry like the others are considering they're just the corrupted souls of the dead. That said, you have other daemons of Nurgle, like Beasts (don't want to kill you), Great Unclean Ones (as far as I'm aware only kill those hostile to them) Nurglings (they just follow the example, which, outside of battle, is usually not killing people) and now Plague Drones, which are unique in that they do just want to kill people. They're Sad Nurgle. Generally speaking even though the Daemons of Nurgle also have the ability to feed off the souls of the living, they prefer not to do so by killing. One would think that excuse would work for Slaanesh but at the end of the day Slaanesh considers killing to be an experience to enjoy as well. So getting right back to Nurgle... Generally speaking, the daemons of Nurgle are just about as content as any daemon in 40k could possibly get and as such are the least likely to kill people on their own volition. So even though most people's reaction to them are something along the lines of "STAY BACK!", if people were just more accepting of Nurgle's love, there's a good sporting chance that that's what they'll get.

Imagine a planet being invaded by Death Guard or some other warband dedicated to Nurgle. Imagine the marines landing, infecting the entire planet, and as they go along killing as few people as possible. After they've infected a populous, they really don't need to do anything else aside from perhaps protect their new followers from an Imperial counter attack. They'd probably even let the populous leave the planet as they saw fit, because we all know who's benefit that'd be for at that point. So yeah. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Nurgle is the best Chaos God.

Don't listen to Quarterdime's propaganda, he's lying for easy victories, lol.

You can't give in to something you've been alongside since the very start.

Malal, Necoho, and Zuvassin find this thread disappointing, gentlemen.

They'd quite happily help people at no cost, if the mood took them. They are not bound by the one track emotions and desires that drive the other Gods. As long as chaotic deeds fitting their nature and goals are performed, they are pleased.

Malal is the God of Rebellion, hence his actions against the rest of the pantheon. His "favors" most certainly come with a cost, at the very least a Gift of Chaos if not Malal's Mark. Doing those "random, Chaotic things" earns you Warp Corruption, mutations and madness.

Also, refuse to do what Malal demands and one finds that things go very poorly for them. Refusing any Chaos God is a bad idea for those who venerate them, but Malal seems to take especial interest in the goings-on of mortals.

 Psienesis wrote:
Malal is the God of Rebellion, hence his actions against the rest of the pantheon. His "favors" most certainly come with a cost, at the very least a Gift of Chaos if not Malal's Mark. Doing those "random, Chaotic things" earns you Warp Corruption, mutations and madness.

Also, refuse to do what Malal demands and one finds that things go very poorly for them. Refusing any Chaos God is a bad idea for those who venerate them, but Malal seems to take especial interest in the goings-on of mortals.

Not necessarily. By fighting Chaos in his name, you are venerating Malal. And there are ways to fight Chaos without picking up a weapon, not everything revolves around how big your chain sword is. For example, it is conceivable one could attempt to treat Nurgle's daemonic diseases as a doctor by invoking Malal's power against them. Malal might well choose to gift that doctor with a giant tentacle arm, conversely, he might not. His desire is to hinder the other Gods, and if he feels that a disease healing doctor would be better served in achieving that goal without a tentacle arm (because that would get him locked up or killed), then the odds are that he wouldn't give it to him.

In such a scenario, you would have a doctor who heals diseases at no cost to himself or others. But Malal's goals would be achieved.

You don't need to pick up a weapon for any Chaos God (excepting Khorne). Chaos is not so easily avoided. The wrong thought at the wrong time and, boom, you're Marked.

If you're fighting Chaos and getting help from Malal, it's inevitable that one of two things will happen: one, you learn about it and have to start taking pains to ensure that this is hidden from people like the Inquisition... which means you're eventually going to flee the Imperium as the Witch-hunters are closing in or, two, you'll get that help at the wrong time and place, and then have to explain to your fellow Space Marines/Guardsmen/what-have-you why a band of daemons just appeared to help you out.

There's also the fact that exposure to the influences of the Warp leads to corruption and mutation. It's just a side-effect of the energy of the Warp, not something the Power in question does on purpose (necessarily... sometimes they do, these are the Gifts of Chaos).

Chaos corrupts. It is what it does. That is part-and-parcel of dealing with it.

 Psienesis wrote:
You don't need to pick up a weapon for any Chaos God (excepting Khorne). Chaos is not so easily avoided. The wrong thought at the wrong time and, boom, you're Marked.

If you're fighting Chaos and getting help from Malal, it's inevitable that one of two things will happen: one, you learn about it and have to start taking pains to ensure that this is hidden from people like the Inquisition... which means you're eventually going to flee the Imperium as the Witch-hunters are closing in or, two, you'll get that help at the wrong time and place, and then have to explain to your fellow Space Marines/Guardsmen/what-have-you why a band of daemons just appeared to help you out.

There's also the fact that exposure to the influences of the Warp leads to corruption and mutation. It's just a side-effect of the energy of the Warp, not something the Power in question does on purpose (necessarily... sometimes they do, these are the Gifts of Chaos).

Chaos corrupts. It is what it does. That is part-and-parcel of dealing with it.

The Chaos Gods have the power to stop mutation taking place and are willing to do so so long as it suits their purposes, Magnus' deal with Tzeentch for the Thousand Sons has proven that. So the 'corruption' is clearly something that only occurs when you have exposure to the warp when you aren't aligned with any particular power, or if a Chaos God chooses to permit or accelerate it. If one was aligned with Malal, Malal himself is intrinsically opposed to Chaos, that's his reason for existence. Accordingly, it would stand to reason that he would be more inclined to oppose the spread of chaos and mutation, and the least likely to deliberately cause it.

Also, Malal does not crave worshippers in the way the Big Four do. He doesn't deny them, but he generally isn't out to convert to his cause, unless he believes it will further serve his main aim (fighting against Chaos). That's why you don't generally have planets being sucked into the warp in schemes in the name of Malal, cults trying to raise Malal in the place of the Emperor, and so forth. That makes his worshippers far harder to find, and far less obvious to the like of the Inquisition, than those of the Big Four.

In the Doctor example I gave above, most people aren't going to be concerned about how the doctor is treating their diseases. All they will care is that they get better. And if an Inquisitor drops by, the doctor can lie, and ascribe it to the Emperor. Malal does not care. All Malal cares for is thwarting the other Chaos Gods. The doctors cures people, the doctor stays hidden to continue Malal's work, and Nurgle is circumvented.

In other words, that's a reasonably good outcome for everyone but Nurgle. In such a way, you can have people performing what would be perceived as 'nice' or 'good' deeds in Malal's name, with his power.


"We shall deny Nurgle their flesh to fester and rot"
"We shall deny Khorne their blood and skulls"
"We shall deny Tzeentch their destinies and fates"
"We shall deny Slaanesh their pleasure and pain"
"Death to the Dark Gods"
"For the Renegade God"
"Let the galaxy burn!"

@Ketara
I don't think spreading mutation is part of Chaos Agenda. It's at most a tool for enticing/forcing mortals to align with one of them. Malal is anarchy. It's a stick up to the man kind of god. It does not stand to reason that he doesn't "reward" his followers with mutations the same way his betters do.

More importantly, Inquisition does not just turn a blind eye to anyone who claims they are blessed/guided/chosen by the Emperor. They just watch them very subtlety with big imperial organizations, Space Marines Chapters or alleged saints. A mere doctor? For some it's straight to the interrogation chamber. Surely the Emperor would recognize one of his own.

Besides, Malal still demands mass blood sacrifice, and it can actually posse a mortal host to pass into the materium. I am rather certain both are dead give-aways.

 lcmiracle wrote:
@Ketara
I don't think spreading mutation is part of Chaos Agenda. It's at most a tool for enticing/forcing mortals to align with one of them. Malal is anarchy. It's a stick up to the man kind of god. It does not stand to reason that he doesn't "reward" his followers with mutations the same way his betters do.

More importantly, Inquisition does not just turn a blind eye to anyone who claims they are blessed/guided/chosen by the Emperor. They just watch them very subtlety with big imperial organizations, Space Marines Chapters or alleged saints. A mere doctor? For some it's straight to the interrogation chamber. Surely the Emperor would recognize one of his own.

Besides, Malal still demands mass blood sacrifice, and it can actually posse a mortal host to pass into the materium. I am rather certain both are dead give-aways.

I'm not saying he wouldn't reward his followers with mutation, or that everything he does is skipping through the daisies. He's not a 'good' God. My point is simply that Malal has different motivations and goals to the other Chaos Gods, primarily, the destruction of those other Gods. All of his plans and scheming are targeted towards that end. As such, he's not looking to turn planets into plague infested swamps, he doesn't want to mutate everyone in the name of change, he has no real desire to create massive battlefields of carnage and murder, or pits of writhing orgies. He's not averse to doing such things if they get him to his goals, but they would be tools as opposed to goals in and of themselves.

And in such a way, his tools would logically involve other things that help to combat the spread of Chaos. Doctors curing disease, pacifists preaching an end to war, morally zealous revolutionaries overthrowing corrupt and degenerate overlords, judges wanting harsher sentencing on extreme sexual deviants. There are a million ways in which one could invoke Malal to combat the Big Four, and many of them can involve 'good' or 'nice' endings for everyone but the Chaos God/their followers in question.

Malal does not care whether or his followers end up as tentacle spawn or not, unless it affects their ability to thwart the Big Four. And if them becoming a tentacle spawn would do just that? He would take steps to prevent it, because that would impede him in his goal of destroying Chaos. He doesn't care if that ends up with everyone but another Chaos God getting a happy ending, because his goals have been achieved.

Meanwhile, Nurgle's worshippers continue to party on Bubonicus! Daemonhood for everybody!

 Ketara wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:
@Ketara
I don't think spreading mutation is part of Chaos Agenda. It's at most a tool for enticing/forcing mortals to align with one of them. Malal is anarchy. It's a stick up to the man kind of god. It does not stand to reason that he doesn't "reward" his followers with mutations the same way his betters do.

More importantly, Inquisition does not just turn a blind eye to anyone who claims they are blessed/guided/chosen by the Emperor. They just watch them very subtlety with big imperial organizations, Space Marines Chapters or alleged saints. A mere doctor? For some it's straight to the interrogation chamber. Surely the Emperor would recognize one of his own.

Besides, Malal still demands mass blood sacrifice, and it can actually posse a mortal host to pass into the materium. I am rather certain both are dead give-aways.

I'm not saying he wouldn't reward his followers with mutation, or that everything he does is skipping through the daisies. He's not a 'good' God. My point is simply that Malal has different motivations and goals to the other Chaos Gods, primarily, the destruction of those other Gods. All of his plans and scheming are targeted towards that end. As such, he's not looking to turn planets into plague infested swamps, he doesn't want to mutate everyone in the name of change, he has no real desire to create massive battlefields of carnage and murder, or pits of writhing orgies. He's not averse to doing such things if they get him to his goals, but they would be tools as opposed to goals in and of themselves.

And in such a way, his tools would logically involve other things that help to combat the spread of Chaos. Doctors curing disease, pacifists preaching an end to war, morally zealous revolutionaries overthrowing corrupt and degenerate overlords, judges wanting harsher sentencing on extreme sexual deviants. There are a million ways in which one could invoke Malal to combat the Big Four, and many of them can involve 'good' or 'nice' endings for everyone but the Chaos God/their followers in question.

Malal does not care whether or his followers end up as tentacle spawn or not, unless it affects their ability to thwart the Big Four. And if them becoming a tentacle spawn would do just that? He would take steps to prevent it, because that would impede him in his goal of destroying Chaos. He doesn't care if that ends up with everyone but another Chaos God getting a happy ending, because his goals have been achieved.

But Malal has no love for the Imperium either, and self-destructiveness is one of his aspects. Sooner or later, he's likely to get impatient with one of his followers serving quietly and "gift" the servant with something that will set off a powder keg. Malal is a rather temperamental god. In general, I think people tend to project far too much rationalism on the Chaos Gods. They're gods of emotion. By definition, they're volatile and unpredictable.

The only possible exception would be Necoho, who, due to being a god of atheism, works a bit differently than the other gods. I kinda wish they would do more with Necoho, but I don't think the current GW writing team is talented and creative enough to pull it off.

 fallinq wrote:


But Malal has no love for the Imperium either, and self-destructiveness is one of his aspects. Sooner or later, he's likely to get impatient with one of his followers serving quietly and "gift" the servant with something that will set off a powder keg.

Possibly. It may very well be that after our hypothetical doctor has cured thousands of Nurgle's plague and ended it as a risk, Malal will give him a tentacle arm, just because he feels whimsical that morning.

But from the perspective of the thousands saved, does it matter? They're alive. One life for thousands of good honest Imperial lives? Surely that's a good thing? Or one radical Inquisitor killed by a warp ravaged mind, in exchange for a sector saved from a devious Slaanesh plot? A gang of Malal's followers being hunted down by the Arbites because their actions exposed a Tzeentchian plot to turn a planet into a daemon world? In such a way (to come full circle), Malal may well end up 'helping' people or saving them, at no cost to them personally. The price tends to be paid by the other chaos Gods, and when appropriate, Malal's own followers.

Personally, I think that when their usefulness/purpose has come to an end, Malal would no longer bother to protect his followers particularly, and so most (but not all!) of them probably would come to a sticky end one way or another. But even so, there is 'good' that can come from Malal's actions and in pursuit of his goals that simply doesn't generally happen with the Big Four.

The only possible exception would be Necoho, who, due to being a god of atheism, works a bit differently than the other gods. I kinda wish they would do more with Necoho, but I don't think the current GW writing team is talented and creative enough to pull it off.

I like the idea of warp entity powered by the belief of disbelief. It's somewhat ironic and clever.

 Ketara wrote:

The only possible exception would be Necoho, who, due to being a god of atheism, works a bit differently than the other gods. I kinda wish they would do more with Necoho, but I don't think the current GW writing team is talented and creative enough to pull it off.

I like the idea of warp entity powered by the belief of disbelief. It's somewhat ironic and clever.

I always pictured Necoho's most blessed champions as having no idea they're champions of Necoho. Only a tiny handful of the weakest of Necoho's servants actually know they serve him, and they gently prod others to get the movement started. The rest are sincerely anti-religious and anti-superstition. So everything about Necoho is reversed from the other Chaos gods.

40K uses a puritanical pseudotheology, much like the pop culture version of the Middle Ages on which it is based.

There are no positive emotions.

Necoho doesn't have Champions. He gives no Marks, he grants no Gifts, and he pays not one iota of attention to people who call on him. He is simply powered by the belief of those who believe there are no gods... and, thus, would have become the greatest of the Ruinous Powers if the fan theories of the Imperial Truth had come to pass.

 Sillycybin wrote:
Well, thanks for the responses guys. It was an interesting read. If you could direct me towards any other sources of fluff that could answer my questions it would be appreciated. I have the Black crusade tomes for each of the gods. Generally I am finding a rather linear outlook on them.

Are the tombs you are talking about the Liber Chaotica books? If not, I would check them out. The past and present daemon book have some interesting bits as well.