Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ratflinger wrote:
I would second the idea of bringing C'tans and Monoliths as point sinks in casual games. I think you can go with Lychguard too. An overlord surrounded by his Lychguard is defiantly a fluffy unit that I consider a bit meh, and can be used to intercept CC threats beelining for you.

As long as you do not bring orikan.

I would reccommend trazyn/anrakyr and maybe imotekh for casual games. Imotekh is a bit on the strong side if used well though.

I like running the Szeras anrakyr combo, but it's actually pretty strong

Well, I personally do not consider the Orikanstar thingy all that great. It sort of reminds me of the RC Disco Inferno from the previous codex. Sure, the unit is good, but realistically too costly for what it does. I have not tried it myself so do not want write it off entirely, though.

But yeah, it still probably is better to take something other than Orikanstar if you are aiming for a casual list.

I've tried, and had great success with the lychstar. You are right though, It's very points intensive. I dislike the whole shebang of it.
-10 LG (300)
Orikan 120
zhand 150
Olord/WS/NS 135
Solar tek 80
Obyron 120.

Almost 1k right there.
I like a trimmed version. It stands at home objective , or legs it to the relic.

Orikan
zand
5 LG
Imotekh (optional)
420-610 points. And still doesn't die. If you want it to stand ground it will do it.

It generally excells in the relic mission.

Ratflinger wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
I dunno if I'd consider the Tranny C'tan in there, it wasn't strictly part of the older codex, existed only for a little over a year, and was only considered available in "normal" play for a few months.

As for the Cryptek, I'll grant they lost a lot of utility, the bigger issue with them I think is that they don't have much of a place in a Decurion (though they do in a CAD).

Ratflinger wrote:


Transcendant C'tans got toned down from its Lord of War status rather than being a powerhouse unit included in the regular codex.
Annihilation Barges went from being mobile, cheap to mediocre to bad with the price increase and added tesla nerfs.
Harbringers of Destruction and their 36" s8 ap2 shooting got removed.
Scarabs became more expensive and no longer eat vehicles for dinner.
Destroyer Lords can no longer accompany the fast CC units. They are still not all that bad, but Wraiths can no longer be turned into quite the same killing machines as before, even they can tarpit things extremely well and also go toe to toe with a lot of CC units.
Mindshackle Scarabs can no longer be used as a way to get a chance against strong Monstruous Creatures.
Command Barges can no longer sweep attack (You could pretty much take down a flyer a turn with it before) and the barge itself do no longer get an invulnerability save and its rider cannot get a 2+ armor save.

Very few of these are "wreckings". Scarabs are still very effective against vehicles (5 or 6 bases will still destroy most vehicles in the game in a single round of combat), Destroyer Lords got access to Invul saves and can still be made to work with Wraiths (congo-lining for a turn or two is relatively easy, seen it done probably three or four times). Most of the rest were largely justifiable changes, particularly the CCB and MSS nerfs.

Sure, 6 scarabs can still kill a vehicle but they will now only really be worth the investment against a land raider. They basically function like melee warriors and have little use beyond being a canoptek harvest tax. Honestly, I think the best use for them is to simply take 3 and scurry about to take unguarded objectives for cheap.

Justified or not the changes to the units are significant and removed a lot of cheesy necron stunts which does have an impact on what the army can do. Necrons do not have much in the way of s7 or s8 shooting anymore, though at least heavy destroyers may see some play. In addition Necrons only have Night Scythes to handle anti air from having 3 units that were good at it. The accumulated nerfs the annihilation barge received were over the top. At least it could have been made into a fast skimmer.

Big scary MC:s now threaten to wipe a squad of robots per turn without MSS as a deterrent. I do not get how you can think of those changes as insignificant. Some may be justified, but pretending like they do not matter seems a bit dishonest.

I didn't say they were insignificant, I said they weren't "wreckings', turning useable units into unusable units (barring the MSS wargear, but that's not a unit/model, and was probably justified). Significant changes? Sure, I won't argue that. But "wrecked"? That's harder to swallow.

Hey, if you want a really quick fix for the Decurion that keeps much of the flavor and gives you a reason to take Crypteks, just swap the "+1 to Reamination Protocol Rolls" from Decurion with the "Reroll 1s for Reanimation Protocols" for the Reclamation Legion. It'll go along way towards balance, gives utility to units and wargear upgrades, and still feels the same, you know without the overpower dominance that a flat +33%+ resilience gave. It's the major fix from my Necron Balance Errata from over in the Proposed rules section, and I doubt you'll find opponents who will be opposed to you making a flavorful and simple switch to Decurion.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Ratflinger wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
I dunno if I'd consider the Tranny C'tan in there, it wasn't strictly part of the older codex, existed only for a little over a year, and was only considered available in "normal" play for a few months.

As for the Cryptek, I'll grant they lost a lot of utility, the bigger issue with them I think is that they don't have much of a place in a Decurion (though they do in a CAD).

Ratflinger wrote:


Transcendant C'tans got toned down from its Lord of War status rather than being a powerhouse unit included in the regular codex.
Annihilation Barges went from being mobile, cheap to mediocre to bad with the price increase and added tesla nerfs.
Harbringers of Destruction and their 36" s8 ap2 shooting got removed.
Scarabs became more expensive and no longer eat vehicles for dinner.
Destroyer Lords can no longer accompany the fast CC units. They are still not all that bad, but Wraiths can no longer be turned into quite the same killing machines as before, even they can tarpit things extremely well and also go toe to toe with a lot of CC units.
Mindshackle Scarabs can no longer be used as a way to get a chance against strong Monstruous Creatures.
Command Barges can no longer sweep attack (You could pretty much take down a flyer a turn with it before) and the barge itself do no longer get an invulnerability save and its rider cannot get a 2+ armor save.

Very few of these are "wreckings". Scarabs are still very effective against vehicles (5 or 6 bases will still destroy most vehicles in the game in a single round of combat), Destroyer Lords got access to Invul saves and can still be made to work with Wraiths (congo-lining for a turn or two is relatively easy, seen it done probably three or four times). Most of the rest were largely justifiable changes, particularly the CCB and MSS nerfs.

Sure, 6 scarabs can still kill a vehicle but they will now only really be worth the investment against a land raider. They basically function like melee warriors and have little use beyond being a canoptek harvest tax. Honestly, I think the best use for them is to simply take 3 and scurry about to take unguarded objectives for cheap.

Justified or not the changes to the units are significant and removed a lot of cheesy necron stunts which does have an impact on what the army can do. Necrons do not have much in the way of s7 or s8 shooting anymore, though at least heavy destroyers may see some play. In addition Necrons only have Night Scythes to handle anti air from having 3 units that were good at it. The accumulated nerfs the annihilation barge received were over the top. At least it could have been made into a fast skimmer.

Big scary MC:s now threaten to wipe a squad of robots per turn without MSS as a deterrent. I do not get how you can think of those changes as insignificant. Some may be justified, but pretending like they do not matter seems a bit dishonest.

I didn't say they were insignificant, I said they weren't "wreckings', turning useable units into unusable units (barring the MSS wargear, but that's not a unit/model, and was probably justified). Significant changes? Sure, I won't argue that. But "wrecked"? That's harder to swallow.

Well, Crypteks, Annihilation Barges and arguably Scarabs did get wrecked. The latter became more expensive, less killy and less durable. And sure, one does perhaps not take into account that one of the strongest Lords of War models in the game got turned into a subpar HS choice since it was not previously in the codex, but the game sure is moving in the direction of bigger scarier things while Necrons lost theirs.

Depends on how you define something getting wrecked I guess. But I would argue that previously good units that one now has little use to bring or got removed entirely is more accurately wrecked rather than gingerly nerfed.

I am not crying about the poor and hopeless position of the necrons here, mind you. Just saying that more than one powerhouse unit actually did take significant nerfs.

harkequin wrote:
A casual decurion list is certainly possible.
Some of the biggest strengths of the list are it's synergy. Chances are if you take a decurion, no matter what way you build it, you probably accidentally built a strong list due to the decurion structure.

My reccomendations are C'tan and monoliths for 3 reasons.

1. Point sinks,
200 pts of meh. They will make your effective points level appropriate for the other effidient units.
2. Fluffy as hell.
C'tan are enslaved powerhouses that particularly arrogant or stupid overlords will unleash, considering the number of arrogant lords there are, they should be a pretty normal sight.
Monoliths are basically the necron drop pods, they are the first, second , third and final waves of the necron invasion. Fluffiest thing to see on the table.

And finally 3. Fun as hell.
C'tan blasting is always fun (particularly with the cards).
Monolith schenanigans are pretty fun too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I do love how fluffy the decurion is, regardless of if it sucked, I would field and expect to see it a lot.
They weren't lying, when on the intro page they called it a "fun way to build an army"

I love Monoliths, and the Ctans, and have used both quite a few times. Every game with both Ctan shards I've won by a landslide, and the first few games with the codex I used a Monolith, and it destroyed a ton of stuff on it's own. They're both underrated units IMO (Though I'll admit they're not super competitive).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

harkequin wrote:

Ratflinger wrote:
I would second the idea of bringing C'tans and Monoliths as point sinks in casual games. I think you can go with Lychguard too. An overlord surrounded by his Lychguard is defiantly a fluffy unit that I consider a bit meh, and can be used to intercept CC threats beelining for you.

As long as you do not bring orikan.

I would reccommend trazyn/anrakyr and maybe imotekh for casual games. Imotekh is a bit on the strong side if used well though.

I like running the Szeras anrakyr combo, but it's actually pretty strong

I love running Anrakyr with Szeras, not only because of their buffs and such, but because fluff-wise they've worked together before, so it feels right. Also, Anrakyr got a bit better in this codex, so thats always a plus. Imotekh I also use quite a bit, and he's done really well. Gotta love having some AP2 shooting.

Just had my first game against the decurion yesterday and all my fears I read about it were true. As soon as my friend said he was running it I wanted to quit and it didn't help that he wouldn't let me change my list since it wasn't very well optimized because I was trying a few new units.

I landed a direct hit with a battle cannon hit on 10 immortals and killed only 2. Got 5 powerfist hit on scarabs and killed only 1. Whats a person supposed to do when their strongest weapons bounce off of basic infantry. The easiest thing for me to kill were 13 armor 4hp skimmer ghost arks which is ridiculous. I gave up after turn 4 since all I had left were two halves of csm squads and a helltalon bomber that had to fly off the table.

In my opinion I don't think decurion lists can be made to be casual due to the fact most armies do not have the damage output to deal with it.

I was happy when most of the unused necron units got buffed and became usable so I didn't have to fight the same boring necrons all the time. It seems GW went a little too far with buffs but I can accept that since most games have some balancing issues. My problem is with the formations which puts them way over the top. It's not just necrons either. Five hive tyrants in one army, imperial knight formations, the new eldar ones etc.

Right now I am trying to convince my friends that we should just ban all formations. At least until every codex get there own.

 Kiggler wrote:

Right now I am trying to convince my friends that we should just ban all formations. At least until every codex get there own.

Eh, I feel like that wouldn't quite be fair. That's like going back to 6th and banning all relics because not all the books had them. Besides, it's not really the formations that make Necrons stupid, it's the Decurion bonus on top of that.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, as most people do. But from what it sounds like, you had some bad luck, or he rolled really well. I got hit with a Demolisher Cannon and saved 5 out of 8 ID wounds from RP alone. That was just good rolling. Killing 2 Immortals sounds like he either had cover, or made way too many 5+'s.

 krodarklorr wrote:

harkequin wrote:
A casual decurion list is certainly possible.
Some of the biggest strengths of the list are it's synergy. Chances are if you take a decurion, no matter what way you build it, you probably accidentally built a strong list due to the decurion structure.

My reccomendations are C'tan and monoliths for 3 reasons.

1. Point sinks,
200 pts of meh. They will make your effective points level appropriate for the other effidient units.
2. Fluffy as hell.
C'tan are enslaved powerhouses that particularly arrogant or stupid overlords will unleash, considering the number of arrogant lords there are, they should be a pretty normal sight.
Monoliths are basically the necron drop pods, they are the first, second , third and final waves of the necron invasion. Fluffiest thing to see on the table.

And finally 3. Fun as hell.
C'tan blasting is always fun (particularly with the cards).
Monolith schenanigans are pretty fun too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I do love how fluffy the decurion is, regardless of if it sucked, I would field and expect to see it a lot.
They weren't lying, when on the intro page they called it a "fun way to build an army"

I love Monoliths, and the Ctans, and have used both quite a few times. Every game with both Ctan shards I've won by a landslide, and the first few games with the codex I used a Monolith, and it destroyed a ton of stuff on it's own. They're both underrated units IMO (Though I'll admit they're not super competitive).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

harkequin wrote:

Ratflinger wrote:
I would second the idea of bringing C'tans and Monoliths as point sinks in casual games. I think you can go with Lychguard too. An overlord surrounded by his Lychguard is defiantly a fluffy unit that I consider a bit meh, and can be used to intercept CC threats beelining for you.

As long as you do not bring orikan.

I would reccommend trazyn/anrakyr and maybe imotekh for casual games. Imotekh is a bit on the strong side if used well though.

I like running the Szeras anrakyr combo, but it's actually pretty strong

I love running Anrakyr with Szeras, not only because of their buffs and such, but because fluff-wise they've worked together before, so it feels right. Also, Anrakyr got a bit better in this codex, so thats always a plus. Imotekh I also use quite a bit, and he's done really well. Gotta love having some AP2 shooting.

Oh yeah, monoliths and c'tan are under rated. especially the c'tan, i feel their strenght is decent compensation for the random powers. C'tan are so damn fun to use though.

Also, I'm pretty sure Anrakyr got straight up nerf-hammered. I remember because I'm still bitter. His Mitm got neutered, his tachyon arrow nerfed (okay doesn't count), and with a WS being AP2 now he's quite sub par. He's still my favorite, I just wish they didn't gut Mitm, he was the one HQ who was solid as he was. Am I missing something where he got buffed? Probably overlooking something.

harkequin wrote:

Oh yeah, monoliths and c'tan are under rated. especially the c'tan, i feel their strenght is decent compensation for the random powers. C'tan are so damn fun to use though.

Also, I'm pretty sure Anrakyr got straight up nerf-hammered. I remember because I'm still bitter. His Mitm got neutered, his tachyon arrow nerfed (okay doesn't count), and with a WS being AP2 now he's quite sub par. He's still my favorite, I just wish they didn't gut Mitm, he was the one HQ who was solid as he was. Am I missing something where he got buffed? Probably overlooking something.

Well, His MitM was nerfed a tad, but it was rather good before, and it still okay now. Also, RP makes him more survivable, and his Tachyon Arrow got "nerfed" if you call it that. Oh no, it's only 120" range . But, he's WS5 and BS5 now, which make it a bit more useful. Also, his Warlord trait is rather useful. Plus, Relentless Crusading Furious Charging Rapid-Firing Gauss Immortals. Thats pretty fun.

Plus, Relentless Crusading Furious Charging Rapid-Firing Gauss Immortals. Thats pretty fun.

okay sold .
You are right though, I was a tad focussed on his specific changes, I forgot about how the general changes like WS5 and RP buff him quite well.

And BS5 means I can fire my arrow reliably, if only i could fire it 11 feet ....

harkequin wrote:

Plus, Relentless Crusading Furious Charging Rapid-Firing Gauss Immortals. Thats pretty fun.

okay sold .
You are right though, I was a tad focussed on his specific changes, I forgot about how the general changes like WS5 and RP buff him quite well.

And BS5 means I can fire my arrow reliably, if only i could fire it 11 feet ....

Lol. I've shot it in both games I've played him. First one, I actually rolled a 2 To Hit, and then exploded a Command Chimaera. The next game, almost destroyed his Warlords tank again. All while running around sweeping units and exploding vehicles. He's a ton of fun.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Kiggler wrote:

Right now I am trying to convince my friends that we should just ban all formations. At least until every codex get there own.

Eh, I feel like that wouldn't quite be fair. That's like going back to 6th and banning all relics because not all the books had them. Besides, it's not really the formations that make Necrons stupid, it's the Decurion bonus on top of that.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, as most people do. But from what it sounds like, you had some bad luck, or he rolled really well. I got hit with a Demolisher Cannon and saved 5 out of 8 ID wounds from RP alone. That was just good rolling. Killing 2 Immortals sounds like he either had cover, or made way too many 5+'s.

It wasn't just bad luck and good rolls. Both of us had good and bad moments that game. I went into that knowing I had no chance and even if I remade my list I still don't think I stood a chance with the units I have access to.

I agree it is mostly the decurion bonus thats puts it way over the top but Necrons are a strong codex with out those formations as well. Banning formations to me seems to be a fair alternative so there can be friendly enjoyable fair casual games. It's not like we are banning certain units or wargear. Why should some armies get free bonus's with very little drawback while others can't?

If banning formations isn't the right answer then what is? In a casual gaming group how do you propose a chaos player like me to compete or any other army?

Before anyone gets the wrong idea I am not trying to be being rude or hate on necrons (even though I have despised them since 3rd edition lol). I am just trying to come up with a fair solution for a friendly gaming environment instead of it becoming win at all cost lists.

My main opponent runs Necrons, and always a Decurion (because why wouldn't you?)

However even if I play super try hard mode GK I struggle, I have never beaten him and its a sore spot, even when he runs a less good Decurion.

Its obviously designed to be hard to beat and adds a lot of flavour, but I do miss old RP!

Enjoy playing your dex tbh, your opponents will figure it out eventually, I know im trying until I do!!

 Kiggler wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Kiggler wrote:

Right now I am trying to convince my friends that we should just ban all formations. At least until every codex get there own.

Eh, I feel like that wouldn't quite be fair. That's like going back to 6th and banning all relics because not all the books had them. Besides, it's not really the formations that make Necrons stupid, it's the Decurion bonus on top of that.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, as most people do. But from what it sounds like, you had some bad luck, or he rolled really well. I got hit with a Demolisher Cannon and saved 5 out of 8 ID wounds from RP alone. That was just good rolling. Killing 2 Immortals sounds like he either had cover, or made way too many 5+'s.

It wasn't just bad luck and good rolls. Both of us had good and bad moments that game. I went into that knowing I had no chance and even if I remade my list I still don't think I stood a chance with the units I have access to.

I agree it is mostly the decurion bonus thats puts it way over the top but Necrons are a strong codex with out those formations as well. Banning formations to me seems to be a fair alternative so there can be friendly enjoyable fair casual games. It's not like we are banning certain units or wargear. Why should some armies get free bonus's with very little drawback while others can't?

If banning formations isn't the right answer then what is? In a casual gaming group how do you propose a chaos player like me to compete or any other army?

Before anyone gets the wrong idea I am not trying to be being rude or hate on necrons (even though I have despised them since 3rd edition lol). I am just trying to come up with a fair solution for a friendly gaming environment instead of it becoming win at all cost lists.

Ask that he doesn't use Decurion. I played 1 (Yes, 1 out of 20 something) using a CAD, and because I wanted more Elites, I took one formation in addition to the CAD (Because formations can also be used that way). My girlfriend, who also plays Chaos, actually did exceedingly well against me that game, though I still came out on top due to Tactical Objectives. The formations are awesome, and aren't game-breaking in themselves. Thats why I mentioned the Decurion giving them the additional bonuses is where it gets silly. So, that's why I don't think outright banning formations is required, since other people take hits too (CSM, Tyranids, most 7th Ed. codexes, ext).

Ratflinger wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Ratflinger wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
I dunno if I'd consider the Tranny C'tan in there, it wasn't strictly part of the older codex, existed only for a little over a year, and was only considered available in "normal" play for a few months.

As for the Cryptek, I'll grant they lost a lot of utility, the bigger issue with them I think is that they don't have much of a place in a Decurion (though they do in a CAD).

Ratflinger wrote:


Transcendant C'tans got toned down from its Lord of War status rather than being a powerhouse unit included in the regular codex.
Annihilation Barges went from being mobile, cheap to mediocre to bad with the price increase and added tesla nerfs.
Harbringers of Destruction and their 36" s8 ap2 shooting got removed.
Scarabs became more expensive and no longer eat vehicles for dinner.
Destroyer Lords can no longer accompany the fast CC units. They are still not all that bad, but Wraiths can no longer be turned into quite the same killing machines as before, even they can tarpit things extremely well and also go toe to toe with a lot of CC units.
Mindshackle Scarabs can no longer be used as a way to get a chance against strong Monstruous Creatures.
Command Barges can no longer sweep attack (You could pretty much take down a flyer a turn with it before) and the barge itself do no longer get an invulnerability save and its rider cannot get a 2+ armor save.

Very few of these are "wreckings". Scarabs are still very effective against vehicles (5 or 6 bases will still destroy most vehicles in the game in a single round of combat), Destroyer Lords got access to Invul saves and can still be made to work with Wraiths (congo-lining for a turn or two is relatively easy, seen it done probably three or four times). Most of the rest were largely justifiable changes, particularly the CCB and MSS nerfs.

Sure, 6 scarabs can still kill a vehicle but they will now only really be worth the investment against a land raider. They basically function like melee warriors and have little use beyond being a canoptek harvest tax. Honestly, I think the best use for them is to simply take 3 and scurry about to take unguarded objectives for cheap.

Justified or not the changes to the units are significant and removed a lot of cheesy necron stunts which does have an impact on what the army can do. Necrons do not have much in the way of s7 or s8 shooting anymore, though at least heavy destroyers may see some play. In addition Necrons only have Night Scythes to handle anti air from having 3 units that were good at it. The accumulated nerfs the annihilation barge received were over the top. At least it could have been made into a fast skimmer.

Big scary MC:s now threaten to wipe a squad of robots per turn without MSS as a deterrent. I do not get how you can think of those changes as insignificant. Some may be justified, but pretending like they do not matter seems a bit dishonest.

I didn't say they were insignificant, I said they weren't "wreckings', turning useable units into unusable units (barring the MSS wargear, but that's not a unit/model, and was probably justified). Significant changes? Sure, I won't argue that. But "wrecked"? That's harder to swallow.

Well, Crypteks, Annihilation Barges and arguably Scarabs did get wrecked. The latter became more expensive, less killy and less durable. And sure, one does perhaps not take into account that one of the strongest Lords of War models in the game got turned into a subpar HS choice since it was not previously in the codex, but the game sure is moving in the direction of bigger scarier things while Necrons lost theirs.

Depends on how you define something getting wrecked I guess. But I would argue that previously good units that one now has little use to bring or got removed entirely is more accurately wrecked rather than gingerly nerfed.

I am not crying about the poor and hopeless position of the necrons here, mind you. Just saying that more than one powerhouse unit actually did take significant nerfs.

Yes, some units did take significant nerfs, I just don't think that equate to being "wrecked", which to my mind means something objectively bad, that can't pull its weight at all, as opposed to just being less optimal than other choices (which may often means there's something wrong with those other units).

I don't think Scarabs are at all bad, they're still pretty good anti-vehicle, can still be reinforced for free, and are still amazing tarpits and effective at destroying things like Fire Warrior gunlines, entrenched IG infantry, and other such things without having to devote more valuable resources. They're not as good as they were before, but they're hardly *bad* units by any objective standard.

Annihilation Barges are perhaps a bit overcosted, but again, not an unusable unit, and don't compare unfavorably next to many common units on other armies (e.g. next to a LR Exterminator for the same price, my fav LR variant, the LR has better armor and longer range, but can't Jink, can't generate extra hits, is much slower and is easier to kill in assaults due to not having rear AV11, I'd largely consider them pretty equal). The bigger issue AB's have is that Nightscythes still do the same thing, at the same price, *and* are transports that don't take HS slots and don't have problems being fit into Decurions.

Crypteks in a Decurion are largely pointless I'll grant you, but in a traditional CAD they certainly are still usable units.

 Kiggler wrote:
Whats a person supposed to do when their strongest weapons bounce off of basic infantry.

My advice: concentrate on volume of fire rather than high strength/low AP fire. You'll probably do better forcing a high volume of saves, rather than a low volume of saves at a -1 RP penalty.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Kiggler wrote:
Whats a person supposed to do when their strongest weapons bounce off of basic infantry.

My advice: concentrate on volume of fire rather than high strength/low AP fire. You'll probably do better forcing a high volume of saves, rather than a low volume of saves at a -1 RP penalty.

This is your best bet.

To me casual means fun - so it's impossible to have fun if for free - your whole army is 33% harder to kill. The least fun part of this game is going through the whole process of shooting wounding and woundpooling just to watch your enemy make 9 saves with 0 fails....that kinda stuff just makes me want to quit playing.

So I'd have to say no - it's not possible to play casual decrion.

aronthomas17 wrote:

Enjoy playing your dex tbh, your opponents will figure it out eventually, I know im trying until I do!!

Or they will just stop playing you.

Until they get there own dichimerons.

krodarklorr wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Kiggler wrote:
Whats a person supposed to do when their strongest weapons bounce off of basic infantry.

My advice: concentrate on volume of fire rather than high strength/low AP fire. You'll probably do better forcing a high volume of saves, rather than a low volume of saves at a -1 RP penalty.

This is your best bet.

I fail to see how that is any better. Not everyone plays eldar or tau either which have easy access to said weapons. It's either low number of wounds with 5+rp re-roll ones or high number of wounds with armour save and 4+ rp re-roll ones. Take your pick both results end close to the same way.

Xenomancers wrote:To me casual means fun - so it's impossible to have fun if for free - your whole army is 33% harder to kill. The least fun part of this game is going through the whole process of shooting wounding and woundpooling just to watch your enemy make 9 saves with 0 fails....that kinda stuff just makes me want to quit playing.

So I'd have to say no - it's not possible to play casual decrion.

Pretty much this. You got to have respect for your opponent/s. If your opponent/s doesn't have the means to compete against your list then you shouldn't expect them to play and enjoy a losing game.

 Kiggler wrote:

I fail to see how that is any better. Not everyone plays eldar or tau either which have easy access to said weapons. It's either low number of wounds with 5+rp re-roll ones or high number of wounds with armour save and 4+ rp re-roll ones. Take your pick both results end close to the same way.

I dunno, my friend brought nothing but Heavy Bolters and Autocannons on his Preds, and a bunch more AP 4 with Sternguard and Tac marines with Heavy bolters. He did much, much better.

So he tailored using units and heavy weapons no one would ever use in a normal game? Did he use FW too, am sure FW has units dripping with ap4 weapons that are heavy3 or morel.

I've had to stop using the Decurion and 'crons for that matter in my friendly games. Even toned down to bare mins, theres no patience for them anymore.

Makumba wrote:
So he tailored using units and heavy weapons no one would ever use in a normal game? Did he use FW too, am sure FW has units dripping with ap4 weapons that are heavy3 or morel.

AP4 is useful against Necrons Warriors. It's also useful against Fire Warriors, and anybody else who has a 4+ (Sisters?). Games against Necrons and Tau are normal games. You can't blame Xenos for the fact that everyone loads up on AP3 and AP2 to try and beat MEQs, TEQs, and vehicles (although I'd bring plenty of AP3 as well against Necrons because most units have a 3+).

My friend and main opponent plays necrons. He used the Decurion for a little while and now uses standard CAD. I did beat him with the ole green skins when he ran a Decurion. But I wasn't playing a "casual" army, he was.

It took my green tide to smash into him to not let him win. And even then it took a very long time to get through some of his units.

This is why I say a casual Decurion is a tier above most other armies casual list.

AP4 weapon spam would work if every decurion list was just warrior blob spam but there not. What about immortals, ghost arks, wraiths, tomb spyders, destroyers, tomb blades, etc. In my particular game it certainly were not the warriors causing me issues.

 Kiggler wrote:
AP4 weapon spam would work if every decurion list was just warrior blob spam but there not. What about immortals, ghost arks, wraiths, tomb spyders, destroyers, tomb blades, etc. In my particular game it certainly were not the warriors causing me issues.

Yeah, when I wrote that, I was thinking of Warrior spam. You're right though, its worth investing in AP3 against Necron armies most of the time due to so much 3+.

The few times I've played against decurions were pretty bad. Was almost tabled in one and last night I got stomped 9 to 2 and had to concede on turn 3. The staying power is real. I'm not sure there's a friendly way of playing 4 up save 4 up rp re-rolling 1s. Usually to tone down lists I just bring more basic troops... that would probably have the opposite effect here.
'