'Gay cake' row: Judge rules against Ashers bakery

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**-Shrike-**

From the BBC. I assume that's the end of this case (can they appeal again?); let's try and keep it civil.

A judge said as a business, Ashers were not exempt from discrimination law.

A judge has ruled that a Christian-run bakery discriminated against a gay customer over its refusal to make a cake with a slogan supporting same-sex marriage.

Ashers Baking Company, based in County Antrim, was taken to court by gay rights activist Gareth Lee.

A Belfast judge said Ashers were not exempt from discrimination law.

Ashers are "conducting a business for profit", they are not a religious group, the judge said.

They were found to have discriminated against Mr Lee on the grounds of sexual orientation.

The judge said he accepted that Ashers have "genuine and deeply held" religious views, but said they were not above the law.

BBC NI reporter Mark Simpson said there was "dignified, calm silence from all sides in court" as the judge explained his decision.

The judge has been speaking for more than a hour, but has not revealed what sanction Ashers will face.

Mr Lee had claimed the bakery discriminated against him on the grounds of his sexual orientation.

Ashers said the slogan was against their Christian beliefs.

Speaking outside the Belfast court ahead of Tuesday's ruling, Ashers general manager Daniel McArthur said: "We happily serve everyone but we cannot promote a cause that goes against what the Bible says about marriage.

"We have tried to be guided in our actions by our Christian beliefs."

**Crystal-Maze**

Good on the judge

**Frazzled**

Frankly I'm tired of anyone caring.

**SilverMK2**

This is just icing on the cake [/pun]

Though I find it funny that the bakery's comment is essentially "we are happy to serve anyone except those we don't like".

**notprop**

I came for the Gay Cake, is there any left?

**Nostromodamus**

notprop wrote:
I came for the Gay Cake, is there any left?

The gay cake is a lie!

**notprop**

Then I'll have some Mincer Pie instead then please.

**SilverMK2**

Alex C wrote:
notprop wrote:
I came for the Gay Cake, is there any left?

The gay cake is a lie!

Although at least now this bakery is sure to see a huge upsurge in the number of gay cakes it gets asked to make

**Frazzled**

I imagine they will be forced to shut down. DOn't think this is an actual victory for anyone but one group of fanatics over another group.

Thats what happened in the case in the US. Instead of a light fine, the partnership was effectively forced into bankruptcy. The activists won and obliterated a bakery that had been minding its own business.

Moral, just because you're right doesn't mean you aren't being a dick.

**timetowaste85**

+1 to what Fraz said.

**Nostromodamus**

Yup, the business should have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. If that reason is pants-on-head idiocy, they will feel it in the wallet and then cease to exist, but they should still have that right.

**Sigvatr**

Frazzled wrote:
I imagine they will be forced to shut down. DOn't think this is an actual victory for anyone but one group of fanatics over another group.

Thats what happened in the case in the US. Instead of a light fine, the partnership was effectively forced into bankruptcy. The activists won and obliterated a bakery that had been minding its own business.

Moral, just because you're right doesn't mean you aren't being a dick.

Exaltud.

**-Shrike-**

Sigvatr wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
I imagine they will be forced to shut down. DOn't think this is an actual victory for anyone but one group of fanatics over another group.

Thats what happened in the case in the US. Instead of a light fine, the partnership was effectively forced into bankruptcy. The activists won and obliterated a bakery that had been minding its own business.

Moral, just because you're right doesn't mean you aren't being a dick.

Exaltud.

Fortunately they both agreed damages of £500 before the case. This case wasn't filled with activists like the US equivalent; seems to have been a rather calmer affair.

**Frazzled**

-Shrike- wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
I imagine they will be forced to shut down. DOn't think this is an actual victory for anyone but one group of fanatics over another group.

Thats what happened in the case in the US. Instead of a light fine, the partnership was effectively forced into bankruptcy. The activists won and obliterated a bakery that had been minding its own business.

Moral, just because you're right doesn't mean you aren't being a dick.

Exaltud.

Fortunately they both agreed damages of £500 before the case. This case wasn't filled with activists like the US equivalent; seems to have been a rather calmer affair.

Excellent.

**Crystal-Maze**

notprop wrote:
Then I'll have some Mincer Pie instead then please.

Well, out of the 13 comments on the thread, one of them turned out not to be very nice.

I suppose that this is at least fitting for an argument centering on Christianity.

**Medium of Death**

Fairy cakes for all!

**Crystal-Maze**

We sure do know a bunch of words for 'gay', don't we?

**welshhoppo**

Religion has no place in the modern world. Good on them.

**Medium of Death**

Crystal-Maze wrote:
We sure do know a bunch of words for 'gay', don't we?

You seem to be getting mad over very simple, juvenile, jokes.

Spoiler:

**Crystal-Maze**

I'm not getting mad, it would just be a nicer thread if we could hang back from pointing out how many (mainly derogatory) words for gay we could make into puns about cake.

**Nostromodamus**

welshhoppo wrote:
Religion has no place in the modern world.

Except it does.

Despite attention-grabbing news headlines depicting the darker side of religion to the exclusion of all else, the vast majority of my experience with various religions has been positive. Religion brings, to most people who practice it, a sense of purpose and spiritual fulfillment that enhances their lives and helps them cope with difficult situations.

I know it's popular these days to scoff at religious beliefs (while the same people often preach tolerance of others, ironically), but it is something that a lot of people find comfort in. I don't see how that is a bad thing, and if it helps people in their lives, it most definitely has a place in our world.

**SilverMK2**

Frazzled wrote:
I imagine they will be forced to shut down. DOn't think this is an actual victory for anyone but one group of fanatics over another group.

Thats what happened in the case in the US. Instead of a light fine, the partnership was effectively forced into bankruptcy. The activists won and obliterated a bakery that had been minding its own business.

Moral, just because you're right doesn't mean you aren't being a dick.

And just because you are wrong and being a dick you should be able to go right on being wrong and a dick?

Edit: Typo

**welshhoppo**

Alex C wrote:
welshhoppo wrote:
Religion has no place in the modern world.

Except it does.

Despite attention-grabbing news headlines depicting the darker side of religion to the exclusion of all else, the vast majority of my experience with various religions has been positive. Religion brings, to most people who practice it, a sense of purpose and spiritual fulfillment that enhances their lives and helps them cope with difficult situations.

I know it's popular these days to scoff at religious beliefs (while the same people often preach tolerance of others, ironically), but it is something that a lot of people find comfort in. I don't see how that is a bad thing, and if it helps people in their lives, it most definitely has a place in our world.

Mostly because it creates situations like this, where people feel more attached to their god than they do to physical people which actually matter.

**Frazzled**

Crystal-Maze wrote:
notprop wrote:
Then I'll have some Mincer Pie instead then please.

Well, out of the 13 comments on the thread, one of them turned out not to be very nice.

I suppose that this is at least fitting for an argument centering on Christianity.

Whats wrong with Mincer Pie? I've not heard of it before, but I'm thinking meat pot pie?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crystal-Maze wrote:
I'm not getting mad, it would just be a nicer thread if we could hang back from pointing out how many (mainly derogatory) words for gay we could make into puns about cake.

Agreed. Cake is serious business!

Bring forth..the chocolate..CAKE!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverMK2 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
I imagine they will be forced to shut down. DOn't think this is an actual victory for anyone but one group of fanatics over another group.

Thats what happened in the case in the US. Instead of a light fine, the partnership was effectively forced into bankruptcy. The activists won and obliterated a bakery that had been minding its own business.

Moral, just because you're right doesn't mean you aren't being a dick.

And just because you are wrong and being a dick you should be able to go right on being wrong and a dick?

Edit: Typo

If you were attempting to reply in the form I submitted it would be: Just because you're wrong doesn't mean you aren't being a dick.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

welshhoppo wrote:
Alex C wrote:
welshhoppo wrote:
Religion has no place in the modern world.

Except it does.

Despite attention-grabbing news headlines depicting the darker side of religion to the exclusion of all else, the vast majority of my experience with various religions has been positive. Religion brings, to most people who practice it, a sense of purpose and spiritual fulfillment that enhances their lives and helps them cope with difficult situations.

I know it's popular these days to scoff at religious beliefs (while the same people often preach tolerance of others, ironically), but it is something that a lot of people find comfort in. I don't see how that is a bad thing, and if it helps people in their lives, it most definitely has a place in our world.

Mostly because it creates situations like this, where people feel more attached to their god than they do to physical people which actually matter.

Why do you assume people matter? In less than a century they're gone.

**SilverMK2**

Frazzled wrote:
If you were attempting to reply in the form I submitted it would be: Just because you're wrong doesn't mean you aren't being a dick.

And refusing service for an asinine reason and acting all high and mighty about it isn't "being a dick"?

**Crystal-Maze**

Frazzled wrote:
Crystal-Maze wrote:
notprop wrote:
Then I'll have some Mincer Pie instead then please.

Well, out of the 13 comments on the thread, one of them turned out not to be very nice.

I suppose that this is at least fitting for an argument centering on Christianity.

Whats wrong with Mincer Pie? I've not heard of it before, but I'm thinking meat pot pie?

Ah, probably doesn't translate well across the pond. Mince pies are a christmas pastry filled with mincemeat, a cinnamon-spiced sultana mixture. 'Mincing' is the manner of walking you see stereotypes of gay people using on TV. Thus, 'mincer pie' is a play on words.

I don't know any gay people who call themselves mincers, its not drawing room fashion language.

**reds8n**

No point in going over this again.