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Writing out a supporting Mech list to ally with my Space Marines, and I can't decide between CCS and a Lord Commissar.

As the list is a mech list (Vets in Chimeras, Original right?) I can't see the point of a CCS. They require me to sink more points into a transport for 5 models, the 5 models themselves are indistinguishable from standard Vets and have fewer ablative wounds. Orders are great, but my army is meant to be extremely mobile so I doubt i'll have any real use of them.

The Lord Commissar gives me stubborn, summary execution and is cheap. I can just throw him in a chimera with my vets and away they go. The CCS costs 178pts with Chimera, Commissar a paltry 65. Since a commissar can't give orders, it also means I can save 5 pts a unit from not taking Vox Casters. Also on the Commissar subject, can I take normal Commissars without Command squads? The wording in the entry says I can take one per command squad, without using a HQ option, if I opt to take a Commissar, with no command squads, would it then take a HQ slot?

Maybe its me, but CCS and the Orders they give seem to be more in-line with Blob Guard or Gunline Guard, In a highly mechanized list I don't see them being used as often.
Admittedly, I am running IG allies because I want Wyverns and Valkyries.

Does anyone else running IG allies or Mech care to give some insight?

When I take my Mech Guard I run them as allies with my Skitarii now, so typically the HQ is a tax for me. Since I'm not worried about them dieing, I just take the CCS to save 5 points and put them on an objective. Basically turns them into a slightly less effective veteran squad on foot.

Like I said I don't run them as my warlord, so I don't really care if they die.

The great thing about a CCS is it can take 4 special weapons and give orders to itself. Assuming you make a SM your warlord you can stuff the CCS into a vendetta (or stormraven), give it 4 plasmaguns, and then drop them anywhere on the board laying down 8 Str7 AP2 shots with either tank/monster hunters or ignore cover. That will brutalize pretty much anything you will face,

You can't take a normal commissar without the command squad and he wouldn't count as a mandatory HQ, so probably write that one off.

As for the command squad vs. Lord Commissar... I'd recommend the command squad. True, they have less ablative wounds, but other than that, you can look at them as just another vet squad. A more squishy vet squad, but one that has access to more special weapons. While you're not intending to get out of the chimeras, getting out does happen (on purpose or not), and in those cases, the commands can be gold (thank you Ignore Cover). The other benefit of course is that the command squad can still issue orders out of the chimera.
For the vets, I've been leaning more towards taurox lately myself. I find the TL autocannon to be more useful more of the time, and the ability to re-roll difficult terrain really helps them fulfill their intended role (move/shoot/grab objectives). The main benefit to that is that I feel confident moving through cover. Plus they're a little cheaper. Frankly, the lower AV on the front doesn't matter to me all that much because people tend to leave them alone... and dedicated fire takes down a chimera almost as easily. The fact that taurox can safely move through cover means that they are more likely to be getting a cover save than chimera... taurox just became more survivable. The only real bonus I find for the chimera is with a command squad and occasionally for the heavy flamer on the front. My mileage with the little trucks says to go with the trucks.

I did think of making the CCS into a plasma-grav-cute suicide squad, but the points investment for a CCS compared to a Lord Commisar is a bit much when I could pay 65 HQ tax for a Commissar and spend the extra 65 points the CCS would cost me on another Wyvern (You won't even be able to SEE the battlefield under all the blast markers!).

Besides which, I am allying with a Mech Marine list (Dreadnoughts, Dreadnoughts everywhere!) and already have my fair share of Plasma Suicide squads.

I'll obviously try both, see what fares better.

Tank commander solves all your problems with AV14

 Lt Lathrop wrote:
Tank commander solves all your problems with AV14

Tanks solve all of the Imperiums problems


I should really look at a tank commander... but so expensive >< Never known anyone to use one

Add Pask in a Punisher with a Executioner buddy. Hilarious until all that Invisibility and 2++ lunacy comes along.

They call me Griff wrote:
....The fact that taurox can safely move through cover means that they are more likely to be getting a cover save than chimera... taurox just became more survivable.....

you know you can give chimeras the exact same ability to move through cover for five points. Right?

 NL_Cirrus wrote:

They call me Griff wrote:
....The fact that taurox can safely move through cover means that they are more likely to be getting a cover save than chimera... taurox just became more survivable.....

you know you can give chimeras the exact same ability to move through cover for five points. Right?

That'll make your chimera 70 points, while the Taurox is still 50. 20 pts is pretty big difference, like 2 meltaguns.

konst80hummel wrote:
Add Pask in a Punisher with a Executioner buddy. Hilarious until all that Invisibility and 2++ lunacy comes along.

Ugh, do NOT get me started on that crap. I have a friend whom loves his Marine Psyker spam and always brings Severin Loth. 2++ Iron Arm Endurance Invisibility psyker in a unit of terminators/other nasty thing.

Even just a regular commander is fun. For an extra 30 pts you get a BS 4 tank that can issue orders to its squadron. If you really want to go to town grab the Imperial Armour book and throw on an Artificer Hull (+1 HP), a Mine Plough (like a Dozer Blade but better and allows you to ram infantry), Recovery Gear (if your tank is immobilised you can try to undo the effect on a 5+ each turn) and Armoured Track Guards (4+ to avoid immobilisation).

Congratulations you now have 2-3 nigh unstoppable juggernauts.

 master of ordinance wrote:

konst80hummel wrote:
Add Pask in a Punisher with a Executioner buddy. Hilarious until all that Invisibility and 2++ lunacy comes along.

whom

who

Even just a regular commander is fun. For an extra 30 pts you get a BS 4 tank that can issue orders to its squadron.

For 40 pts you get tank hunter and some fun stuff, like Rending and Preferred enemy.

If you really want to go to town grab the Imperial Armour book and throw on an Artificer Hull (+1 HP), a Mine Plough (like a Dozer Blade but better and allows you to ram infantry), Recovery Gear (if your tank is immobilised you can try to undo the effect on a 5+ each turn) and Armoured Track Guards (4+ to avoid immobilisation).

Except for the +1 HP, it seems like a lot of wasted points to me. You are putting an 5+ and 4+ defense on something, that can happen IF you get a penetrating hit ON a 6+ (same probability, different number). So it will rarely occur, but you have to spend the points anyway.

Congratulations you now have 2-3 nigh unstoppable juggernauts.

It's still a 3HP LR that has cardbox on it's back, not a juggernaut. If they really want to take it out, AV14 is not unstoppable.

Actually with the plethora of grav guns that can only immobilise vehicles the 4++ vs immobilisation could be a thing.
A idea for the YMTC crowd but it should work something like this: A) Opponent shoots does hull point damage B) you roll cover saves.Then C)if any penetrating hits are "Immobilised" you get to roll an additional 4++.
Am I right?

konst80hummel wrote:
Actually with the plethora of grav guns that can only immobilise vehicles the 4++ vs immobilisation could be a thing.
A idea for the YMTC crowd but it should work something like this: A) Opponent shoots does hull point damage B) you roll cover saves.Then C)if any penetrating hits are "Immobilised" you get to roll an additional 4++.
Am I right?

That's a really good point. And since the second immobilized effect would make your tank lose another hp (so the 3rd out of 3), that 4+ can save your ass.

When embarked a CCS is identical to a veteran squad. They have the same damage output, and play into your existing playstyle. It's not at all an HQ tax at that point.

 master of ordinance wrote:
If you really want to go to town grab the Imperial Armour book and throw on an Artificer Hull (+1 HP), a Mine Plough (like a Dozer Blade but better and allows you to ram infantry), Recovery Gear (if your tank is immobilised you can try to undo the effect on a 5+ each turn) and Armoured Track Guards (4+ to avoid immobilisation).

This is not legal. The ABG upgrades (artificer hull, etc) are only for the ABG army list, not for tanks in other armies. You're saying the equivalent of "you should grab C:SM so you can give your DA Ravenwing bikers grav guns".

 TheSilo wrote:
When embarked a CCS is identical to a veteran squad. They have the same damage output, and play into your existing playstyle. It's not at all an HQ tax at that point.

Plus you can add an astropath for psychic shrieking through the hatch and still shooting 2 special weapons in the shooting phase, same goes for MoO, but you need to stay put to use it, also OoF works from Chimera too.

CCS is good force multiplier IMO.

Plus I have a little trick which is very nice against psyker heavy lists: stick a CCS in a Chimera with a MoO and a single Inquisitor w/ Psyocculum (BS10 for him and his unit against psykers)

You now have a 190pts unit which can issue orders and snipe psykers with S9AP3 Big blast all accross the table. Especially good against Spiritseer/Wraiths squads, as you can wipe them out with great accuracy

 RazgrizOne wrote:
MoO and a single Inquisitor w/ Psyocculum (BS10 for him and his unit against psykers)

You now have a 190pts unit which can issue orders and snipe psykers with S9AP3 Big blast all accross the table. Especially good against Spiritseer/Wraiths squads, as you can wipe them out with great accuracy

This doesn't work as the MoO always scatters the full distance.

Still the CCS is very useful.

 ansacs wrote:

 RazgrizOne wrote:
MoO and a single Inquisitor w/ Psyocculum (BS10 for him and his unit against psykers)

You now have a 190pts unit which can issue orders and snipe psykers with S9AP3 Big blast all accross the table. Especially good against Spiritseer/Wraiths squads, as you can wipe them out with great accuracy

This doesn't work as the MoO always scatters the full distance.

Still the CCS is very useful.

MoO scatters 3d6" if you roll an arrow, 2d6" if you roll a hit, -4" if he has line of sight.

I insta-killed the enemy warlord on his first shot in the last game I played. Granted he scattered off of the tanks I was aiming at, but I was quite pleased with the result.

 TheSilo wrote:

 ansacs wrote:

 RazgrizOne wrote:
MoO and a single Inquisitor w/ Psyocculum (BS10 for him and his unit against psykers)

You now have a 190pts unit which can issue orders and snipe psykers with S9AP3 Big blast all accross the table. Especially good against Spiritseer/Wraiths squads, as you can wipe them out with great accuracy

This doesn't work as the MoO always scatters the full distance.

Still the CCS is very useful.

MoO scatters 3d6" if you roll an arrow, 2d6" if you roll a hit, -4" if he has line of sight.

I insta-killed the enemy warlord on his first shot in the last game I played. Granted he scattered off of the tanks I was aiming at, but I was quite pleased with the result.

You all are right. I was definitely wrong, whoops. Thinking off an old rule.

 ansacs wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:

 ansacs wrote:

 RazgrizOne wrote:
MoO and a single Inquisitor w/ Psyocculum (BS10 for him and his unit against psykers)

You now have a 190pts unit which can issue orders and snipe psykers with S9AP3 Big blast all accross the table. Especially good against Spiritseer/Wraiths squads, as you can wipe them out with great accuracy

This doesn't work as the MoO always scatters the full distance.

Still the CCS is very useful.

MoO scatters 3d6" if you roll an arrow, 2d6" if you roll a hit, -4" if he has line of sight.

I insta-killed the enemy warlord on his first shot in the last game I played. Granted he scattered off of the tanks I was aiming at, but I was quite pleased with the result.

You all are right. I was definitely wrong, whoops. Thinking off an old rule.

Scattering the full distance wouldn't be that bad, but that's what SM bombardment does, MoO is even worse. Though you are paying 20 points for a basilisk shot, so it's pretty cheap, if it hits once the whole game, you are fine. It's better if the enemy spreads out big, so it has bigger are where it can hurt stuff though. S9, Infinite range, out of LoS, Large blast, Ordnance, Barrage. All of them are really good rules. It's dangerous when the two armies are closer to each other, or if you DS next to the enemy.