Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Long story short, my Elves have gotten boring. Move, shoot, magic, move, shoot, magic. Every once in a while a Wild Rider charge would annihilate a unit. So while i plan to keep my Elves as my competitive army, i plan on rekindling my Fathers old Orc army into my new casual one. Having blocks of tough, high strength savages and charging at people shouting WAAAAGH! looks like the epitome of fun. But while i want it to be fun, i also want to be able to throw up a good fight against my local players, who themselves play block heavy Skaven, WOC, Tomb Kings and too many Elves dotted around. So i'd like some advise on what kind of Orc Heavy army would be viable? I don't mind a gobbo brick or two, but i don't want them to be the mainstay of the army, they just aren't as appealing as Orcs.

For starters, I have a well painted Grimgor model I'd like to use. So Grimgor and his Immortalz seems like a good place to start, playing at 1500pts I'm thinking giving him a block of 19 Black Orcs. I'd imagine they could cleave through even WOC handily? I also have a block of 2 hand weapon Savage Orcs, and i'd like to use both but they both seem to do the exact same role, E.G squish the enemies biggest unit.

Since as a wood elf i was deprived of Chariots, I want to make use of the many chariots Orcs and Goblins have available, but which variety is better? I imagine against WOC that the Pump Wagon ignoring saves on the first impact inflicting massive damage.

And finally should i bother with magic and shooting? All in all, their magic just doesn't look that good, is it worth throwing loads of points into a level 4 or just stick to a level 2 Night Goblin with scroll? The Arrer Boyz just seem, so, so wrong on every level. However the Doom Diver looks really fun, it he worth a pick up?

Try 2x manglers, 2x doom divers and 2x rock lobbas as rares. It gives you answers to all kinds of problems, for under 500 points.
For specials, I usually run 6 trolls, and 2 units of 3 goblin chariots. It's enough hitting power to scare a lot of things.
For core, It is a big block of savage big uns, and 2 blocks of night goblins, along with 4 units of wolf riders (chaff).

Then a beat stick lord, cheap BSB who hides, scroll caddy, level 4 and a few night goblin heroes with great weapons (34 points for a guy with 3 S6 attacks).

If it's something you cannot possibly kill in melee (witch elves with cauldron) throw in the manglers, stone throwers and then chariots. Heavy Cav/Monstrous Cav? Doom diver them.

O&G as a combat army can be a lot of fun to play, but it's middle of the pack at best.

Yeah OnG are still viable. Just keep in mind that they're a solidly middle-to-lower-middle tier army. Lots of little annoyances (no magic banners without a BSB, basicaly). Lots of holes in the list (struggle against armour). Only a few viable builds. There's a reason many people in the competitive scene have dubbed them "Green Dwarfs" as well, since looking at HawaiiMatt's list above you can see how gunliney it is.

That said, they're a fun army to play...both with and against. Just be prepared to paint alllllllllll those minis. Horde armies are no small undertaking.

G&O are the best balanced army in the game. Lots of variety, fun to play, they got everything!

Keep in mind, though, that being nigh-perfectly balanced means "omg trash tier" online.

 Sigvatr wrote:
G&O are the best balanced army in the game. Lots of variety, fun to play, they got everything!

Keep in mind, though, that being nigh-perfectly balanced means "omg trash tier" online.

If it weren't for animosity, that army would have a good shot at winning a lot.
Being able to build an effective army with solutions for all problems (fanatics, impact hits, manglers, stone throwers and doom divers, along with tar pits and beat sticks and chaff) is all good, until your chaff decides to charge into the enemy, blocking your advance, then getting massacred and panicking off key units.
It can be a really fun army to play, because you can show up with all the tools your need, and it's up to you to get the match ups you need.
Unlike other armies where you don't have the tools you need, and you feel totally hopeless. (re: ogres vs ethereal undead)

That said, it totally sucks that the army wide rule for O&G makes the army worse.
Beastmen (hate/frenzy)
Brettonians (blessing, knight bus)
Chaos (eye of the gods)
Daemons (ward saves, fear, reign of chaos)
Dwarf (hate you, bonus to dispel)
Empire (detachments)
Elf (ASF)
Lizards (cold blooded)
Ogre Kingdoms (bull charge)
Skaven (Strength in numbers)
Undead (fear, keep coming back)

Hopefully 9th edition will bring something better out of animosity.

Precisely. Then again, if you play G&O, you play for fun, not to win. If you want to play to win, you just play Skaven. Similar playstyle, undercosted units.

I wonder what units you're comparing, where Skaven come up too cheap.

Slaves are the only ones you can make a case for.

As for Animosity, it's a lot more reliable than it used to be. There's a small chance it totally screws you over, regardless of the situation, a much larger chance that it either screws you over or helps you out (getting extra distance on your charge isn't always a bad thing!), and most of the time, does nothing at all.

The best O&G players I've seen have a main plan, and then several back-up strategies, for when that doesn't work.
...but that's the sign of a clever general, regardless of Army.
Or, you could be boring, and pile all your eggs into one basket (Savage Big 'Uns, Shrunken Head, Black Orc) and hope that your opponent's basket has less eggs in it (you'll lose that contest more often than not), and/or that they roll a little worse than you.
At that point, victory basically goes to whoever can kill the other guy's chaff the fastest and get off a favorable charge first.

Mostly Slaves and HPA. Slaves need either Instability or higher points cost and the HPA...well, it's the HPA.

Instability makes Slaves twice as fragile. I doubt that's what they need.
And you'd have to be careful about making them cost more, too. Clanrats are not considered a strong Core choice; they're not cheap enough or potent enough. And they currently cost 2pts/model more than Slaves.

Really, I don't think Slaves're that much different from Night Goblins. For one more point, you get a shield or a bow and the option for Netters and Fanatics.

The A-bomb really isn't so bad. He's what monsters should be. Minus the "Too Horrible To Die" chart. Being unpredictable is fun, but that swings the game way too hard, when it happens.
I would point out the even cheaper (and much more predictable) Steam Tank.
Almost all the other monsters need some kind of boost, or they fail to be worth much of anything at all.

Warpsolution wrote:


Really, I don't think Slaves're that much different from Night Goblins. For one more point, you get a shield or a bow and the option for Netters and Fanatics.

I'd agree if my NG had LD 10 too

True. They just have Ld9.

Warpsolution wrote:
True. They just have Ld9.

Leadership 9 with an Orc warboss who won't fit into their ranks to hide, as opposed to a 90 point warlord.

Not to mention fear of elves, 3 less Initiative, less movement, animosity, cant be shot into, less leadership and costing one point more.

Skaven slaves are toxic to 8th edition.

They should either have strength in numbers and inspiring presence and not be allowed to have steadfast, or keep IP and Steadfast, and lose strength in numbers. 2 points models were never designed with that much staying power. Make those changes, and suddenly there's an upside to a 4 point clan-rat, which is still a great tar pit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, 45 point Chieftan. 90 point Warlord not required.

Dredging up every difference between Skaven and O&G is not only not relevant to the point, but it's far off the OP's purpose, too.

Skaven have some amazing stuff and some crap, and their book is old and weird.

Orcs & Goblins has more all-around balanced stuff, leaning towards less competitive, and their book is well-written.

Neither are the amazing and horrendous Elven armies (not you, Asrai. You're cool), or are packed full of powerful options like Warriors.

O&G...I don't remember when they were incredible. But they're a solid army, even still.
The one really 'ard trick they've got is Savage Big 'Uns with the Shrunken Head.
Though I will say they have a great artillery line-up, too.

Warpsolution wrote:
Dredging up every difference between Skaven and O&G is not only not relevant to the point, but it's far off the OP's purpose, too.

Skaven have some amazing stuff and some crap, and their book is old and weird.

Orcs & Goblins has more all-around balanced stuff, leaning towards less competitive, and their book is well-written.

Neither are the amazing and horrendous Elven armies (not you, Asrai. You're cool), or are packed full of powerful options like Warriors.

O&G...I don't remember when they were incredible. But they're a solid army, even still.
The one really 'ard trick they've got is Savage Big 'Uns with the Shrunken Head.
Though I will say they have a great artillery line-up, too.

I suppose your right, but I wasn't trying to bring up Skaven and O&G, but simply Goblins and Slaves, since you directly compared them.

I would say orcs are still viable. About about 4 points a model too high are the Orc Boar Boys w/ Spears and their Str 5 charges.

Savage w/ head are great.

Ironhide and his crew are okay, and I think he's the one that lets you have extra bigguns.

Manglers are great against elite armies who "Don't waste points on chaos hounds/fast cav/chaff".

Divers and Lobbas are fine, I think squigs are fun and okay, and I've never heard people complain about their 45 point pump wagons "underperforming."

The book got kicked in the nuts on magic items.

Thanks for all the advise, now i've got a few games under my belt I feel i can actually have a valid opinion now.

The Savage Orc horde with shruken head outperformed my Black Orcs in every situation, Ws 5 just didn't matter that much and all to often i had my armour save negated to nothing. However the Savage Orcs were surprsingly survivable and exceptionally killy. However on the other hand, Grimgor was amazing, beating down several Brettonian Lords/Heroes in one game and went toe-toe with a Chaos Lord for 3 turns before coming out on top.

Also, i need War Machines and chaff. I didn't want them originally because i was trying to get away from that whole thing, but i need them. Even if it's only to plink wounds off of Elite units with great saves such as Skull Crushers, i feel like i should get my hands on 2 Doom Divers, at least they look really fun.

Why question is what is the best chaff/chaff hunters that Orcs get? A friend suggested cheap Goblin Characters on Wolves over normal Wolf Riders, however Spider Riders look cool as well, how do they preform?

Alex

Black Orcs pay a lot for Immune to Psychology and not having Animosity.

In most situations, Big 'Uns are better. The only exception I've found is when the Black Orcs take out the great weapons.

Doom Divers are absurdly good against those small, elite units. As are Mangler Squigs.

Wolf Riders are cheaper and faster, so that's sort of hard to beat. Poison cavalry...not that big of a deal.
But Spider Riders aren't so terrible that you're crippling yourself if you take a unit.
I'm also extremely partial to the Big Boss on a Gigantic Spider. Easy to give him a 2+ save, and a nice batch of S5 and Poisoned S4 attacks for under 90pts.
Lone characters on Wolves are good at their job, which is similar to their Core counterparts, really. Just different strengths and weaknesses.