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bullyboy wrote:
so, anyone want to predict composition of RW and DW formations?

There should be a cool Decurion-style formation system for Ravenwing and Deathwing. The real question is... what are the formation bonuses!!

I'm surprised we hear.nothing at all. This.....can't be good.

That's because there will be no major changes - at all. DA might or might not get some updates equipment-wise (e.g. devastators with gravguns etc) but there will probably be no major, earth-shattering change to them. I bet you could basically use the old codex with some pencilmarked updates here and there.

Here is what I want, then what I think will actually happen.

Dw terminators point drop across the board
New relics
Point drops for existing ones
Grav weapons
Dw vet centurions (this would be a no brainer for gw)
Both land speeders slightly adjusted
Fixing the flyers
Drop price of rw
Drop price of special characters
10pt Plasma guns

What will probably happen is
No change in cost of dw
No dw terminator captain
And basically none of the above

I'm hoping though, really hoping, as my mate told me that apparently all the marine codexs are being worked one at the same time to bring a little consistency, but will have staggered release.

Can we have ML2 for 25 points as everybody else for start?

@Formosa: Why would you need a DW terminator captain? You can make any DW Terminator into one as there's plenty of bling on that kit. Plus all Company Masters are members of the Deathwing anyways.

I don't want belial, I want to be able to take a dw Terminator chapter master/captain and a ravenwing one, as in has their own special rules for being dw and ravenwing.

Precision strike and shot for dw
Precise shot for rw and auto pass hit and run

Bam done, will it happen, no.

olataro wrote:
I'm surprised we hear.nothing at all. This.....can't be good.

focus is on C:SM right now so I wouldn't expect to hear much until after that has dropped.

I'm not expecting miracles, but I do expect a bump in the playability of the army. Formation bonuses for Deathwing/ravenwing could be game-changing.

olataro wrote:
I'm surprised we hear.nothing at all. This.....can't be good.

I guess they really are getting good at keeping stuff quiet.

From the looks of it, the special formations from C:SM are Demi-Companies. There is no real reason the Gladius Strike Force won't work for DA. They will probably have something similar, if not identical, to it for DA. The bikes formation favored by White Scars sounds suspiciously similar to the Ravenwing.

I think the DA will get 3 base formations for their decurion (wonder when there will be a generic name for that lol). One for green guys, one for RW and one for DW that will then have the ability to tack on more stuff.

I predict a demi company for the base chapter
The RW will probably be sammael plus a command squad and 3ish RW squads.
The DW would be something like beliel a command squad and 2 or 3 DW squads

I think the fancy stuff will be add on formations like speeders and DWK/RWBK.


Despite having sworn off GW purchases since the Eldar debacle, I am mildly excited to see if my first and for most favorite and ride or die army RW will finally not be garbage. This just might be the codex that breaks the curse, as it finally isn't going to be the CSM test bed.

....of course now that I have my hopes up....it will be utter trash and I will be forced to continue my moratorium on GW expenditure -__-.

I too believe they will get 3 main decurion detachments: RW, DW and greenwing.
I always envisioned DA being the "shootier" very of space marines, like how SW and BA are the choppy. Our chapter specific rule could reflect that.
Azrael will be a lord of war, and I'm hoping he's more of a utility person than a combat machine, but I'll be alright if he is.
Tank formations seem to be likely, as well as some sort of land speeder one for RW.
Also hoping our physic discipline will be useful.
Here's to hoping!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
From the looks of it, the special formations from C:SM are Demi-Companies. There is no real reason the Gladius Strike Force won't work for DA. They will probably have something similar, if not identical, to it for DA. The bikes formation favored by White Scars sounds suspiciously similar to the Ravenwing.

I'm actually expecting that the ones in the Space Marine codex will allow any faction of Adeptus Astartes to be able to use them, and the Dark Angels will get a minidex like Skitarrii/Harlequins. The minidex with have a few formations/detachments of its own, but can use the parent Gladius detachment as well.

I hope that is no the case. I want to buy one codex (DA) and not two.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
From the looks of it, the special formations from C:SM are Demi-Companies. There is no real reason the Gladius Strike Force won't work for DA. They will probably have something similar, if not identical, to it for DA. The bikes formation favored by White Scars sounds suspiciously similar to the Ravenwing.

I'm actually expecting that the ones in the Space Marine codex will allow any faction of Adeptus Astartes to be able to use them, and the Dark Angels will get a minidex like Skitarrii/Harlequins. The minidex with have a few formations/detachments of its own, but can use the parent Gladius detachment as well.

Probably going to be the case. Hope BA and DA can benefit from the changes to the regular Space Marine codex. The DA and BA have cool toys of their own that make me not want to just run them as a regular Space Marine army (I don't have any DA, but if I did I would want to play DA not "DA").

 Formosa wrote:
I don't want belial, I want to be able to take a dw Terminator chapter master/captain and a ravenwing one, as in has their own special rules for being dw and ravenwing.
.

Um... those don't exist.

Deathwing is a 100 guys. The Chaptermaster is Azrael. The Captain of the Deathwing is Belial. The Captain of the Ravewing is Sammael. Other Captains don't exist who lead those guys.


It's like saying I want a grey/white Wizard in LoTR leading the Fellowship, but not Gandalf, but with the same rules as Gandalf. Doesn't make much sense. The Wizard of the Fellowship simply was Gandalf. If you want some alternative universe / marvel ultimate stuff, where the Deathwing is lead by another first captain, just house-rule it, no?

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I don't want belial, I want to be able to take a dw Terminator chapter master/captain and a ravenwing one, as in has their own special rules for being dw and ravenwing.
.

Um... those don't exist.

Deathwing is a 100 guys. The Chaptermaster is Azrael. The Captain of the Deathwing is Belial. The Captain of the Ravewing is Sammael. Other Captains don't exist who lead those guys.


It's like saying I want a grey/white Wizard in LoTR leading the Fellowship, but not Gandalf, but with the same rules as Gandalf. Doesn't make much sense. The Wizard of the Fellowship simply was Gandalf. If you want some alternative universe / marvel ultimate stuff, where the Deathwing is lead by another first captain, just house-rule it, no?

Actually, no one outside of the Inner Circle knows how big the Deathwing company is.

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I don't want belial, I want to be able to take a dw Terminator chapter master/captain and a ravenwing one, as in has their own special rules for being dw and ravenwing.
.

Um... those don't exist.

Deathwing is a 100 guys. The Chaptermaster is Azrael. The Captain of the Deathwing is Belial. The Captain of the Ravewing is Sammael. Other Captains don't exist who lead those guys.


It's like saying I want a grey/white Wizard in LoTR leading the Fellowship, but not Gandalf, but with the same rules as Gandalf. Doesn't make much sense. The Wizard of the Fellowship simply was Gandalf. If you want some alternative universe / marvel ultimate stuff, where the Deathwing is lead by another first captain, just house-rule it, no?

I think the issue here is that Codex: DA is used for all of the unforgiven, meaning Dark Angels and their successors. Most of which operate their own Wings (Death, Raven, Iron etc), so if running a successor chapter it would be nice to make your own Deathwing Captain rather than a not-belial clone.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
From the looks of it, the special formations from C:SM are Demi-Companies. There is no real reason the Gladius Strike Force won't work for DA. They will probably have something similar, if not identical, to it for DA. The bikes formation favored by White Scars sounds suspiciously similar to the Ravenwing.

I'm actually expecting that the ones in the Space Marine codex will allow any faction of Adeptus Astartes to be able to use them, and the Dark Angels will get a minidex like Skitarrii/Harlequins. The minidex with have a few formations/detachments of its own, but can use the parent Gladius detachment as well.

Then it wouldn't be "like the Skitarii/Harlequins" as you don't have to own any other books to utilize them.

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I don't want belial, I want to be able to take a dw Terminator chapter master/captain and a ravenwing one, as in has their own special rules for being dw and ravenwing.
.

Um... those don't exist.

Deathwing is a 100 guys. The Chaptermaster is Azrael. The Captain of the Deathwing is Belial. The Captain of the Ravewing is Sammael. Other Captains don't exist who lead those guys.

It's like saying I want a grey/white Wizard in LoTR leading the Fellowship, but not Gandalf, but with the same rules as Gandalf. Doesn't make much sense. The Wizard of the Fellowship simply was Gandalf. If you want some alternative universe / marvel ultimate stuff, where the Deathwing is lead by another first captain, just house-rule it, no?

Yes they exist, kinda shocked you said that, bon and Sammy are the current leaders of the respective wings, do they also lead all the successor chapters? Have they had their jobs since the heresy, no, so give me the option of a custom master of the ravenwing and Deathwing, also the chapter master option, space marines can rock 2 in the same game so don't give me nonsense about "Azrael" blah blah Blah, I want the options, not cookie cutter crap that gw half arsed hands me.

Vent over haha

Well, Belial, Sammy, and Azrael are the current one and only leaders of the chapter, first and second companies... so yea no options for other company masters of those respective companies... and third and following companies have no terminator armour.

Since you bring up second founding chapters... the codex lets you use belial's stats for a first company master of a successor chapter... just like many use deathwing stats for angels of vengeance terminators, or Ravenwing stats for angels of absolution second company folk.

I agree that i wish our terminator captain had more options, but if we want other terminator captain options we should play space marines or blood angels

 Kanluwen wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
From the looks of it, the special formations from C:SM are Demi-Companies. There is no real reason the Gladius Strike Force won't work for DA. They will probably have something similar, if not identical, to it for DA. The bikes formation favored by White Scars sounds suspiciously similar to the Ravenwing.

I'm actually expecting that the ones in the Space Marine codex will allow any faction of Adeptus Astartes to be able to use them, and the Dark Angels will get a minidex like Skitarrii/Harlequins. The minidex with have a few formations/detachments of its own, but can use the parent Gladius detachment as well.

Then it wouldn't be "like the Skitarii/Harlequins" as you don't have to own any other books to9 utilize them.

I that's what I meant. The book will have everything you need to play Dark Angels, but if you want to use the Gladius detachment or any of the Formations, then you need the Space Marine book.

This image is on the Australian webstore under the devastators.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
From the looks of it, the special formations from C:SM are Demi-Companies. There is no real reason the Gladius Strike Force won't work for DA. They will probably have something similar, if not identical, to it for DA. The bikes formation favored by White Scars sounds suspiciously similar to the Ravenwing.

I'm actually expecting that the ones in the Space Marine codex will allow any faction of Adeptus Astartes to be able to use them, and the Dark Angels will get a minidex like Skitarrii/Harlequins. The minidex with have a few formations/detachments of its own, but can use the parent Gladius detachment as well.

Then it wouldn't be "like the Skitarii/Harlequins" as you don't have to own any other books to9 utilize them.

I that's what I meant. The book will have everything you need to play Dark Angels, but if you want to use the Gladius detachment or any of the Formations, then you need the Space Marine book.

That's not how either of those books work, so I would suggest a different comparison.

 Whumbachumba wrote:
This image is on the Australian webstore under the devastators.

I was about to say....."dude, new devs are really old news, but then I realized why you posted it.......grav for DAs"

bravo!!

Yeah that grav looks great. All the greaves look wonderful too!!

 Kanluwen wrote:

That's not how either of those books work, so I would suggest a different comparison.

You're being needlessly contrarian.

 455_PWR wrote:
Well, Belial, Sammy, and Azrael are the current one and only leaders of the chapter, first and second companies... so yea no options for other company masters of those respective companies... and third and following companies have no terminator armour.

Since you bring up second founding chapters... the codex lets you use belial's stats for a first company master of a successor chapter... just like many use deathwing stats for angels of vengeance terminators, or Ravenwing stats for angels of absolution second company folk.

I agree that i wish our terminator captain had more options, but if we want other terminator captain options we should play space marines or blood angels

I understand what your saying but I disagree, I have had to be stuck with Bob and Sammy since 4th, I don't want mediocre special characters to play my army, I want my own custom mediocre character as master of the ravenwing, just make a bike for a captain cost 30pts and have plasma talons, teleport homer and hit and run, terminator armour is overcosted so doesn't need a change for a master of Deathwing upgrade that could have precise strike as part of the rules, it's simple and fluffy, I'm not asking too much for the option not to have to take the special characters.

Thanks Wumbachumba

Formosa, I said in my earlier post that I agree with you that I wish we had more options; what I was saying is that GW has not structured us that way since the weakest 4th edition codex... codex dark angels (thanks JJ).

I have been playing Dark Angels since the end of second edition (ah yes, glorious third edition... when deathwing were freaking GREAT). In third we could make a terminator captain, kit him with special gear, and take two heavies per terminator squad.

I remember the good old times and wishlist along with you, but I don't think GW will deviate from their DA structure now that they have ingrained it into the fluff. Hell it would be cool to take Belial and kit him out with a combi bolter and relic sword, or a storm shield and his special blade... but I'm sure it won't happen in my lifetime.