Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi

I'm a new player about to play my first games with a friend next weekend and am looking to nail down my 1000 point list. The army will be up against space marines and necrons if that makes any difference to who I should collect.

After much deliberation and chopping and changing I am down to two possible lists. Any help and advice on them would be greatly appreciated...

Option 1: Head

HQ: farseer + jetbike: 115

3x windwrider + scatter laser: 81

Aspect host: 430
5x Warp spides + exarch
5x swooping Hawks + exarch
5x fire dragons + exarch + wave serpent with scatterlaser

Wraithknight: 295

One other squad between either: howling banshees, striking scorpions, dire avengers or adding to the aspect host above?????

As you can see in a dilemma as to what to take with the final 80 odd points with this option. How would this list work? Is a wraithkight overkill at this points level?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Option 2: Heart

HQ: farseer + jetbike: 115

3x windwrider + scatter laser: 81

Aspect host: 496
6x Warp spides + exarch
4x dark reapers + exarch
6x fire dragons + exarch + wave serpent with scatterlaser

Harlequin allied troupe: 303
9x troupe + 1x caress + 8x kisses or embraces
Shadowseer + level 2 + mask of secrets

This option is one that I have been trying to make work for a while. Started getting in to 40k and loved the harlequin models then gw split them from Eldar so have tried to work them in.

With both options there will be scope to mould them together once my friend and I up it to 1500 but until then which gives the best options? Also have guardian models which I could make use of if that would add balance?

Any expert advice before I go into play testing at the weekend?

Thanks

List 1, get another bike squad and get shoulder guns on the Knight.

So, are you playing unbound?

Yeah it's just very casual. Ideally keep it as legal as possible though.

Was thinking another bike squad, that the best option or should I be looking at close assault?

List 1 that much better or is list 2 still playable?

Neither list is strong, the first is just about playable with the suggestions I've made. It all depends on how proficient your meta is.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Neither list is strong, the first is just about playable with the suggestions I've made. It all depends on how proficient your meta is.

Oh dear am I massively off the mark here then? Again next weekend will be my first game (apart from dark vengeance skirmishes) so any advice now would be great before I get blown off the table! Where am I going wrong?

It's not that you're going wrong it is that you don't have a clear plan on how to go right. Ideally in a game of Warhammer you want to put as much pressure on your opponent as possible and make his decisions as difficult as possible. So you need to think about your list as a whole first. How are you going to apply that pressure. Target saturation and target denial are common tactics to give your opponent difficult targeting decisions. Whilst alpha striking or threat over load are good ways to apply pressure in the early game. Area denial units are great for board control to ensure your opponent has a difficult decision even on something as simple as trying to grab ,midfield objectives.

Only once you've decided the strategy of your list as a whole should you look at the specifics. Where every unit you take helps pull towards that initial goal. Then finally ensuring you have your bases covered do you have a plan to deal with a Mech army, a flyer army, FMC spam, horde, death star etc.

 FlingitNow wrote:
It's not that you're going wrong it is that you don't have a clear plan on how to go right. Ideally in a game of Warhammer you want to put as much pressure on your opponent as possible and make his decisions as difficult as possible. So you need to think about your list as a whole first. How are you going to apply that pressure. Target saturation and target denial are common tactics to give your opponent difficult targeting decisions. Whilst alpha striking or threat over load are good ways to apply pressure in the early game. Area denial units are great for board control to ensure your opponent has a difficult decision even on something as simple as trying to grab ,midfield objectives.

Only once you've decided the strategy of your list as a whole should you look at the specifics. Where every unit you take helps pull towards that initial goal. Then finally ensuring you have your bases covered do you have a plan to deal with a Mech army, a flyer army, FMC spam, horde, death star etc.

I see. Inexperience is a killer here. Not having played makes it very hard to choose a plan and the best units to follow that plan. So from what I know already Eldar are about speed and firepower. Getting in quick and hitting hard before the opposition can get into a strong position. I suppose that is where the jetbikes come in. Swooping Hawks and warp spiders also provide this with the wraithknight providing cover fire with his heavy firepower. The fire dragons are in for taking down vehicles and with the wave serpent also adds to the support fire. The swooping Hawks are in for taking out air support too.

Please remember I'm not looking for tournament efficiency but you are right that I am probably way off the mark to make this competitive in any way... Especially against necrons. if you could change the list and models were no problem what would you do? Thanks for taking the time to help a newb

My advice is run list 1 with my suggestions. Then play lots of games. Then you'll be able to understand the game. Only then will you really be in a position to begin writing an effective army list. Your lists are just a collection of models at the moment unlike most people which such lists each unit is a decent choice (picking Eldar makes that part easier). Eldar are a very forgiving and easy army to use so are great for beginners. At this point concentrate on learning the game and having fun. Worry about creating effective lists later.

IMO it's not very helpful for new players to start with way too strong options (WK) at this low point level. Relying on the inherent strength of the WK doesn't get you better and chances are, your opponent can't handle it depending on the first turns and/or his list.

Suite wrote:
IMO it's not very helpful for new players to start with way too strong options (WK) at this low point level. Relying on the inherent strength of the WK doesn't get you better and chances are, your opponent can't handle it depending on the first turns and/or his list.

Perhaps that is ok then as I haven't got the wraithknight I can run with list 2 for now... All models that I own get some games under my belt and see what happens. The reason for putting a list together before even playing is of course that you can't play without buying them and I'm reluctant to waste money buying units that ultimately won't work. My reason for fire dragons and harequins initially was that I love the look and as a 35 year old dad painting them in the evening is a good way to chill out. Playing them has initially been an afterthought but a good buddy of mine has just got into it.

I'm getting a bit confused as where to go from here...

the best 1000 pt list I thin there is for eldar is still

1x autarch with fusion gun
2x 10 defenders with bright lacne platform in wave serp with scatter laser
2x fire dragons in wave serp with scatter laser

Don't try to over think it before you have played a game.

The best time for deep contemplation is after being soundly beaten a few times. Hopefully your opponent will explain how you could do better.

Enjoy your games!

Maybe if I list the models I have someone may be able to suggest a workable list to experiment with.

Models made up (all bought second hand for cheap)...

6x fire dragons
10x dire avengers
5x warp spiders
5x dark reapers
10x guardians
1x farseer

Models bought and not made up so could exchange for others...
6x harlequins
1x starweaver
1x shadowseer
3x Eldar jetbike
1x farseer
1x wraithlord
5x wraithguard/blade

If anyone could help that would be amazing and massive thanks for all the help so far!

you can't really make a good army out of that, I would get 3 wave serpents, (as a minimum) and then play 5 dire avengers in one, 5 fire dragons in another 10 defender guardians in the last, then I would get 5 more warp spiders. that will take you to just under 1000pts if you use a autarch HQ . As a rule of thumb every point you spend on "bros" you need to spend at least a point (if not 2) on "AV12"

also all your unmade stuff is worth keeping.

ConanMan wrote:
As a rule of thumb every point you spend on "bros" you need to spend at least a point (if not 2) on "AV12"

This is dogmatic and flat-out wrong. The models he has are good enough to field a decent 1000pt force. Fire Dragons can be tricky on foot, but the rest fares well enough. What is this Autarch thing about? He doesn't has one, besides no fliers for reserve manipulation. The Farseer is easily the more versatile (many say: better) choice.

Whoops forgot I have a wave serpent that I got second hand too.

Is it a worthwhile exercise to look at what I want the force to be at 2000 points and work backwards from there?

Well a bit dated as a player but the Eldar strength is psykers, S6 fire and mobility. The other alternative is to max T6/T8 stuff. The problem is with psychic randomness nowadays, you probably have to max with 2 farseers.

So firepower/maneuver army -

2 Farseers on bikes
3 or more jetbikes with shuriken cannons.
vypers with 2 shuri cannons or scat laser/shuri cannons
warp spiders.
Then you want something fast that can take on in HTH.
That is tough choice... wraiths in a serpent. Warlocks on bikes
I would probably base that on if I go vypers or spiders. Wraith in serpent with vypers. Jetlocks if spiders.
War walkers are also an option...

The T6/T8 army is Wraiths, wraith lord and 2 wraith knights.

To avoid the money sink hole, my recommendation would be to stay away from serpent or falcons until you are more sure of yourself gaming wise. (Unless you fall in love with fire dragons)

A final word about dark reapers... not a bad choice in either army but min max them with 2 reapers plus exarch with EML/fast shot or 2 reapers plus exarch with tempest/other ability...

Have fun, the eldar are loads of fun. Welcome to the flexible, fun and frustrating craftworld!

Ok after much reading around and deliberation I think my main goal for my army is a hit and run theme with plenty of Psyke support. Looking to get in quick and take out the oppositions key units while securing objectives with fast units. My 2000 point army is listed below...

Carftworld: 1600

3x Falcons with cloudstrike (2 for harlequin troupe 1 for fire dragons): 375

6x fire dragons with exarch: 142
8x swooping Hawks with exarch: 138
8x warp spiders with exarch: 162

1 farseer with jetbike: 115
3x windrider with scatterlaser: 81
3x windrider with scatterlaser: 81

Wraithknight with ghostglaive, scatterlaser and starcannon: 330

Hemlock wraithfighter: 185

Harlequin allies: 400

5x troupe with 4x embrace and 1x caress: 123
Level 2 shadowseer: 75

5x troupe with 4x kiss and 1x caress: 123
Level 2 shadowseer: 75

Am thinking deep striking two squads of harlequins plus fire dragons could be great fun! My question is is this now viable? And how do I cut this down to a 1000 point army???

At 1000 points, lose the wraithknight and the swooping hawks. I would probably - sadly lose the warp spiders.

3 falcons + fire dragons and hemlock are going to cut anything big or heavy armor down to size. While the knight is cool 330 is too much in a 1000 point army IMO.

Perhaps I'm trying to force things too much trying to splash harlequins into the list and should just go pure Eldar... Would reduce the cost of things and allow more options

Suite wrote:

ConanMan wrote:
As a rule of thumb every point you spend on "bros" you need to spend at least a point (if not 2) on "AV12"

This is dogmatic and flat-out wrong. The models he has are good enough to field a decent 1000pt force.

No, you're offering very bad advice!. footdar is significantly harder and at 1000 pts almost impossible due to the inherant issues of combatting fliers, heavy armour and anti horde in a army that lacks generalists on foot.

There is nothing wrong with advising him to go mechdar, I think 1000 pts is too low for a WK but not for 1500+ so 3 wave serpents and 5 warpspiders is a GOOD piece of advice because it a) gives you a good army and b) gives you a place to get to 1850 nicely with just a WK basically

Also farseers are terrible in 1000pts ... they cost a fortune and give nothing back... but an autarch adjusts your reserve rolls (deep striking warp.spiders) and are incredibly cheap at 80 pts he can join fire dragons stay alive and be useful.. also just use the 6th fire dragon as an autarch... he said he had 6

Mechdar is a bit meh. Bikedar is the strength of the new book backed up Wraiths. 1k is certainly not too low for a Knight in fact you can run 2 at that point level. Mechdar won't be a terrible list but Wave Serpents certainly are not a necessity.

Autarchs are useful if you need reserve manipulation otherwise a Farseer is a vastely superior option. Their cost is not significantly different and yes at 1k a Farseer isn't always at full efficiency but without significant reserve investment (generally a bad idea at 1k) the Autarch likewise isn't near full efficacy.

Ok slight change to the plan. Like the thought of an autarch so how does this list sound?

Aspect host:
5x fire dragon with exarch: 120
5x warp spider with exarch: 105
3x dark reapers with exarch: 90

Falcon with scatterlaser (for fire dragons): 125

Crimson fighter: 140

Wraithlord with ghostglaive, flamers and starcannon: 145

3x jetbike: 51

6x striking scorpions with exarch with claw: 142
1x autarch with banshee mask and powermaul: 90

Thoughts?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or the same as above but a wraithknight in the place of the wraithlord and Crimson fighter.... Thought two units were better than one and the wraithknight could be introduced when we up it to 1500

Also perhaps trying to get Jain in the squad of scorpions when I up the points... A squad of 9 with her banshee mask, -5 to WS and -5 to initiative is too good to pass up! She can replace the autarch!

Xeones7 wrote:
Also perhaps trying to get Jain in the squad of scorpions when I up the points... A squad of 9 with her banshee mask, -5 to WS and -5 to initiative is too good to pass up! She can replace the autarch!

Jain or the Autarch can not join scorpions during deployment as they do not have infiltrate. Read the rules for Independent Characters. Specifically the part that highlights infiltrating.

Ah... Doh!

She would be amazing in a troupe of harlequins with a shadowseer though!

Any thoughts on the updated list?