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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/27 21:41:27
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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So with the craftworld dex displaying d-scythes as st D-1, does this mean that other sources of strength modification can affect the strength of D weapons? I'd like to see what people think.
My main thought process surrounds the Knight Magaera, it's Ion shield reduces the strength of any weapons hitting it by -1 (-2 for blasts and templates) so I was wondering if it gets hit by a ranged d weapon, does the weapon become D-1 and suffer a -1 to its roll on the D table? Discuss.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/27 21:48:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/27 21:49:55
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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the D-scythe rule isn't a strength modifier, it is a rule that says it has -1 when rolling on the destroyer table.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/27 21:53:02
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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But what does the rule summary list the strength of the D-scythe as? D or D-1? Because if it lists the strength as D-1, special rule or not, I think the argument stands as it's strength of D is being modified.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/27 22:03:49
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Emboldened Warlock
Widnes UK
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It is listed as strength D with the distort scythe rule. That is the rule that makes it 1 lower on the D table.
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Ulthwe: 7500 points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/27 22:04:06
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Lieutenant General
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You're creating a problem that doesn't exist. They're listed as Strength D, with the Distort Scythe special rule.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/27 22:11:03
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
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Hiwpi d weapons are considered s10 for instant death and things like that. That is what you could modify with special rules. I dont believe there is a rule anywhere outside of d-scythes that can modify the destroyer table roll
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"If you wait a few months, they'll pick one of the worst codexes and they'll nerf almost everything, its an abstract sort of balance, but it's the sort of balance gw likes...  " |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/27 22:11:06
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Krazed Killa Kan
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The only way it could ever come into play is that the eldar D scythes are treated as str 4 for the purposes of instant death, as opposed to normal D which is treated as str 10. And you can't ever take FNP from any kind of D weapon wound at all, regardless of your toughness.
Apart from that, D scythes more or less ignore the rules for strength v toughness/armor. They simply deal D3 wounds or a pen that causes D3 hull points of damage to ANYTHING on a 3+.
So, no. Strength modifiers don't matter to D weapons, since if you roll a 2+ (or 3+ for distort weapons), it's an auto wound/pen, regardless of the target's toughness/armor value.
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"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/27 22:13:13
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
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Would a t6+ model not get fnp against a 2-5 on the destroyer table?
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"If you wait a few months, they'll pick one of the worst codexes and they'll nerf almost everything, its an abstract sort of balance, but it's the sort of balance gw likes...  " |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/27 22:15:37
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Lieutenant General
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jokerkd wrote:Hiwpi d weapons are considered s10 for instant death and things like that.
The Distort Scythe rule disagrees with you and sets the Instant Death threshold quite clearly.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/27 22:21:17
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
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Ghaz wrote: jokerkd wrote:Hiwpi d weapons are considered s10 for instant death and things like that.
The Distort Scythe rule disagrees with you
No it doesn't as i was using the normal d weapon rules only as an example of what a strength modifying special rule could effect
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"If you wait a few months, they'll pick one of the worst codexes and they'll nerf almost everything, its an abstract sort of balance, but it's the sort of balance gw likes...  " |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/27 22:27:14
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
Little Rock, Arkansas
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jokerkd wrote:Would a t6+ model not get fnp against a 2-5 on the destroyer table?
No. Doesn't matter if you're a t8 gargantuan taking wounds from a "counts as str 4" d scythe, you still don't get fnp.
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20000+ points
Tournament reports:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/27 22:27:42
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Lieutenant General
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Weapons with the Distort Scythe rule are still Strength D weapons.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/27 22:28:08
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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jokerkd wrote: Ghaz wrote: jokerkd wrote:Hiwpi d weapons are considered s10 for instant death and things like that.
The Distort Scythe rule disagrees with you
No it doesn't as i was using the normal d weapon rules only as an example of what a strength modifying special rule could effect
Even then, I think an argument can be made that the "assume it is Strength 10" line is something of a set value.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/27 22:30:16
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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Cool. Question answered.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/28 01:41:48
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
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niv-mizzet wrote: jokerkd wrote:Would a t6+ model not get fnp against a 2-5 on the destroyer table?
No. Doesn't matter if you're a t8 gargantuan taking wounds from a "counts as str 4" d scythe, you still don't get fnp.
The whole point of having a "counts as" strength is for determining whether the wound causes instant death. If it doesn't, you can roll fnp
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"If you wait a few months, they'll pick one of the worst codexes and they'll nerf almost everything, its an abstract sort of balance, but it's the sort of balance gw likes...  " |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/28 02:32:19
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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jokerkd wrote:The whole point of having a "counts as" strength is for determining whether the wound causes instant death. If it doesn't, you can roll fnp
Feel No Pain cannot be taken against wounds/damage from Destroyer weapons, regardless of whether it causes Instant Death or not.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/28 02:32:42
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/28 02:34:17
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Freaky Flayed One
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jokerkd wrote:niv-mizzet wrote: jokerkd wrote:Would a t6+ model not get fnp against a 2-5 on the destroyer table?
No. Doesn't matter if you're a t8 gargantuan taking wounds from a "counts as str 4" d scythe, you still don't get fnp.
The whole point of having a "counts as" strength is for determining whether the wound causes instant death. If it doesn't, you can roll fnp
This is where you read the rule for destroyer and realize that it blanket says you cannot take Feel no Pain against Destroyer attacks. It isn't because they are count as strength 10, it's because Destroyer doesn't let you take that roll. You also cannot take reanimation protocols against Destroyer.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/28 02:39:25
Subject: Subtracting strength from D weapons
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Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
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Whacked wrote: jokerkd wrote:niv-mizzet wrote: jokerkd wrote:Would a t6+ model not get fnp against a 2-5 on the destroyer table?
No. Doesn't matter if you're a t8 gargantuan taking wounds from a "counts as str 4" d scythe, you still don't get fnp.
The whole point of having a "counts as" strength is for determining whether the wound causes instant death. If it doesn't, you can roll fnp
This is where you read the rule for destroyer and realize that it blanket says you cannot take Feel no Pain against Destroyer attacks. It isn't because they are count as strength 10, it's because Destroyer doesn't let you take that roll. You also cannot take reanimation protocols against Destroyer.
Actually, this is where you read the destroyer rules and see that it does not say that at all
That is what i did.
What i should have done was check the feel no pain rule itself. Which is where the rule mr shine was referring to is written
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/28 02:50:39
"If you wait a few months, they'll pick one of the worst codexes and they'll nerf almost everything, its an abstract sort of balance, but it's the sort of balance gw likes...  " |
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