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The argument that the unit gets no ccw attacks if it shot is flawed.

You MUST choose a profile each turn. This profile has to be considered the only profile that weapon has for that turn, lest you break the game.
To say the weapon has the melee type even when using the shooting profile is saying it cannot shoot at all.....ever......


"Melee Type

Weapons with the Melee type can only be used in close combat."

 jokerkd wrote:
The argument that the unit gets no ccw attacks if it shot is flawed.

You MUST choose a profile each turn. This profile has to be considered the only profile that weapon has for that turn, lest you break the game.
To say the weapon has the melee type even when using the shooting profile is saying it cannot shoot at all.....ever......


"Melee Type

Weapons with the Melee type can only be used in close combat."

Well put, but where does it clearly state that the profile of the weapon has been changed or that the weapon in question ignores the other part of its profile?

The Weapon profile in this case has two lines, but both of those lines are part of the weapon profile. So While I choose to use the shooting line in the shooting phase as per the rule (pg, 41, BRB) the weapon never looses the melee line and if I choose to charge (In that same turn) I am forced to use the melee line in the profile (Melee Rule PG 40 BrB), but am restricted from doing so by the rule on (pg, 41, BRB) because I shot with it, but the weapon profile still contains the (Melee Rule) and thus lose my attacks as I have a CCW(That has melee in its profile). As per the other rule on (Pg, 41, BRB) which states that if model does not have a Melee weapon then I can make attacks using my Str at Ap-. But the Model in this case does have weapon with the Melee type and thus I am restricted from using the (No Specified Melee Weapons Rule)

So GW needs to FAQ this.

Well put, but where does it clearly state that the profile of the weapon has been changed or that the weapon in question ignores the other part of its profile? 

It doesn't, and that's a problem, but one answer limits the weapons use in a reasonable (to some) manner. The other breaks the game.

 jokerkd wrote:

Well put, but where does it clearly state that the profile of the weapon has been changed or that the weapon in question ignores the other part of its profile? 

It doesn't, and that's a problem, but one answer limits the weapons use in a reasonable (to some) manner. The other breaks the game.

Yeah, Zhufor and Abbadon being able to use one of their weapons after shooting is pretty game-breaking.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:

Well put, but where does it clearly state that the profile of the weapon has been changed or that the weapon in question ignores the other part of its profile? 

It doesn't, and that's a problem, but one answer limits the weapons use in a reasonable (to some) manner. The other breaks the game.

Yeah, Zhufor and Abbadon being able to use one of their weapons after shooting is pretty game-breaking.

Not sure if joking or genuinely doesn't get the point

As I've said, I believe whatever iteration of explanation one contrives, there is no way of avoiding the legitimate call of a FAQ on this.

 BLADERIKER wrote:
Well put, but where does it clearly state that the profile of the weapon has been changed or that the weapon in question ignores the other part of its profile?

When you choose which profile to use for the turn it ends that issue. If I choose the shooting profile and then you state that it still has melee then you are using the other profile which breaks the rules as I chose to use the shooting profile.

Gravmyr wrote:

 BLADERIKER wrote:
Well put, but where does it clearly state that the profile of the weapon has been changed or that the weapon in question ignores the other part of its profile?

When you choose which profile to use for the turn it ends that issue. If I choose the shooting profile and then you state that it still has melee then you are using the other profile which breaks the rules as I chose to use the shooting profile.

This. To me this sounds something like: "If a weapon has two profile options, choose one to use per turn." Meaning that you no longer have the second option for the remainder of the turn, it's just not applied since you've chosen to function in one manner or the other. You're using one option and therefore the weapon has those rules as stated, not the other profile's rules.

And then we get back into the issue where the model has a weapon with a melee type in its profile, therefore cannot use the "free ccw" rule, and therefore cannot make any attacks with a weapon.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
And then we get back into the issue where the model has a weapon with a melee type in its profile, therefore cannot use the "free ccw" rule, and therefore cannot make any attacks with a weapon.

Well, that's my point. The way it sounds to me is that when you choose the shooting phase profile, the weapon has the characteristics listed under the ranged profile and NOT the melee profile, therefore it isn't a melee weapon in that turn and should be able to use the "free ccw" rule. Maybe I missed something, but doesn't choosing one or the other mean that the one not chosen is not in effect? How can you claim that it still has the attributes of one profile even when you've chosen to have your weapon function as the other profile?

I must be missing something or I just can't wrap my head around something, but it seems like in order to not qualify for the "free ccw" rule, you're cherry picking a piece of one profile and applying it even when it's not in effect.

Gravmyr wrote:
When you choose which profile to use for the turn it ends that issue. If I choose the shooting profile and then you state that it still has melee then you are using the other profile which breaks the rules as I chose to use the shooting profile.

What part of "you can choose which to use each turn" carries a quantitative value?

At what point is the word "one" or "profile" used to indicate singular?

Consider this, I can put any version or value in there and it will not change the sentence's flow.

"Some weapons can be used in combat as well as shooting. Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon's profile for each, and you can choose which profile to use each turn."

"Some weapons can be used in combat as well as shooting. Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon's profile for each, and you can choose which profiles to use each turn."

The only limitations to the use of a profile are involved with Actions. In the Shooting Sequence, you cannot shoot a Weapon you've already fired. In the Fight sub-phase, you choose one Weapon to fight with. Those are actual limitations delineated with specific terms. Not as above.

Considering that every Weapon like this I know of, including Pistols (yes, they have two profiles, even if one isn't listed in another line), has a range of 18" or less (most 12" or less), it would be remarkably stupid design that they couldn't.

Also consider that the Ork Burna Weapon STILL has the rule to prevent this from happening. Why prevent something that's already in the rules? And it's not even listed as a reminder. Should Boltguns have a rule disallowing a Charge when Fired unless Slow and Purposeful or Relentless? What about Lascannons?

It breaks no rules to allow the Rod to Fire, Charge and use the Rod in Melee unless you choose to make it so. It's easier to use and set up than having to find reasons to justify they get a "free CCW" around the fact that they already have a defined Melee Weapon.

Parsalian wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
And then we get back into the issue where the model has a weapon with a melee type in its profile, therefore cannot use the "free ccw" rule, and therefore cannot make any attacks with a weapon.

Well, that's my point. The way it sounds to me is that when you choose the shooting phase profile, the weapon has the characteristics listed under the ranged profile and NOT the melee profile, therefore it isn't a melee weapon in that turn and should be able to use the "free ccw" rule. Maybe I missed something, but doesn't choosing one or the other mean that the one not chosen is not in effect? How can you claim that it still has the attributes of one profile even when you've chosen to have your weapon function as the other profile?

I must be missing something or I just can't wrap my head around something, but it seems like in order to not qualify for the "free ccw" rule, you're cherry picking a piece of one profile and applying it even when it's not in effect.

Ok the bit your missing is the use vs has bit.

The weapon has 2 profiles; 1 melee, 1 ranged(generally assault). You are able to choose which you use per turn, it still has the other profile it is just unavailable for use.

The free ccw rule is for models that do not have a melee profile weapon.

In the case of these dual profile weapons that you have chosen to shoot, you still have a weapon with a melee profile but it is unavailable for use. Ergo, no free ccw.

This btw is not really hiwpi; just how the RAW fails to function(I'd play it with a free ccw, and that unit has the choice of shoot or assault; the free ccw comes into play via overwatch).

 Happyjew wrote:

 Orock wrote:
There are a lot of sour grapes in this thread. It says one profile per turn, not phase. So that means your stuck with str base and ap -

I have had to deal with this on my burnas forever. I hardly think this cripples the necrons dex.

Where do you get Str: User, AP-?

You cannot use the rules for "free ccw" because the model in question has a melee weapon and does not qualify.

It says that you cannot use that weapon any other way for the rest of the turn, that means you discard ALLLLL stats of it. It will be base str and ap -. It works the same way with the burnas.Weither you want to accept it is irrelivent. You cant benefit from the higher str on the stat line because you used it as a gun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

peteralmo wrote:
I think most people are making good points, but I have seen nothing to sway me from believing GW needs to provide further clarification to either the rule on page 41, or each individual weapon. For example, I just finished watching Reece's batrep with Pablo over on frontline gaming, ultramarines vs necrons with Reece using necrons running rods of covenant. Multiple times he shot with them and then went on to assault with them in the same turn using the str 5 ap 2 profile. Now I don't know for sure, he may be completely ignorant of this controversy, but I doubt it; Often I see Reece weighing in on all manner of rules jockeying. Does this mean the argument is settled? Of course not. But I find it compelling that he played them that way.

reese, the guy who with 250 bucks on the line, forgot a super basic rule about his eldar that would have won him the game and kept his money in his pockets? that reese? everyone makes mistakes. You cant watch a single miniwargaming batrep without getting mad at the 3 or 4 huge game changing mistakes they make.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If the weapon was intended to be str 5 ap 2 in both shooting and meelee, the rule would state this.

This weapon may be used in the shooting phase. str 5 ap 2 12 inch range. It may also be used in the assault phase as str 5 ap 2.

It says choose for the turn. It is clear as crystal they intended for you to only use it as one statline per turn.

You are able to choose which you use per turn is the ONLY part of this that matters.

It does not say choose which type you use it as per turn. Then ignore this and use the other stat line too.

The problem with saying they can just do both is the fact that if you count the Rod as doing both then it has both profiles all the time. If it has both profiles then it cannot shoot ever as it is restricted to only CC if it has melee. Until you can provide a rule that states that you can choose not to look at the profile that states it has melee you have no backing for shooting with it after choosing both for the turn.

On the flip side if I choose to use the shooting profile then you have no permission to look at any profile except the one I have chosen to use. If you do then you are using it and breaking the rule that allows me to choose.

Check your pistol as CC weapon rule as well, they only use the profile if it is used as a CC weapon. Sound a lot like choosing which profile to use for the turn for dual profile weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why do skimmers have a rule about moving off other models when the only time it could happen is a failed tank shock and by the rules you would have to move those models from under it. If you look at many codex they cut and paste from older editions even if the rules have changed that make it a moot point. Saying that they never print redundancies to rules is incorrect.

Yes, that very same reese. The best players all make mistakes from time to time, I dont think his mistake negates any validity to his judgement. Have you read any of his articles? He's a details guy who loves knowing all the possible iterations of cheese available to every army. I'm simply betting he isn't ignorant of this controversy.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

Parsalian wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
And then we get back into the issue where the model has a weapon with a melee type in its profile, therefore cannot use the "free ccw" rule, and therefore cannot make any attacks with a weapon.

Well, that's my point. The way it sounds to me is that when you choose the shooting phase profile, the weapon has the characteristics listed under the ranged profile and NOT the melee profile, therefore it isn't a melee weapon in that turn and should be able to use the "free ccw" rule. Maybe I missed something, but doesn't choosing one or the other mean that the one not chosen is not in effect? How can you claim that it still has the attributes of one profile even when you've chosen to have your weapon function as the other profile?

I must be missing something or I just can't wrap my head around something, but it seems like in order to not qualify for the "free ccw" rule, you're cherry picking a piece of one profile and applying it even when it's not in effect.

Ok the bit your missing is the use vs has bit.

The weapon has 2 profiles; 1 melee, 1 ranged(generally assault). You are able to choose which you use per turn, it still has the other profile it is just unavailable for use.

The free ccw rule is for models that do not have a melee profile weapon.

In the case of these dual profile weapons that you have chosen to shoot, you still have a weapon with a melee profile but it is unavailable for use. Ergo, no free ccw.

This btw is not really hiwpi; just how the RAW fails to function(I'd play it with a free ccw, and that unit has the choice of shoot or assault; the free ccw comes into play via overwatch).

RAW you would always have cc attacks because you would not be able to shoot the weapon at all

Charistoph wrote:

Gravmyr wrote:
When you choose which profile to use for the turn it ends that issue. If I choose the shooting profile and then you state that it still has melee then you are using the other profile which breaks the rules as I chose to use the shooting profile.

What part of "you can choose which to use each turn" carries a quantitative value?

At what point is the word "one" or "profile" used to indicate singular?

Consider this, I can put any version or value in there and it will not change the sentence's flow.

"Some weapons can be used in combat as well as shooting. Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon's profile for each, and you can choose which profile to use each turn."

"Some weapons can be used in combat as well as shooting. Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon's profile for each, and you can choose which profiles to use each turn."

The only limitations to the use of a profile are involved with Actions. In the Shooting Sequence, you cannot shoot a Weapon you've already fired. In the Fight sub-phase, you choose one Weapon to fight with. Those are actual limitations delineated with specific terms. Not as above.

Considering that every Weapon like this I know of, including Pistols (yes, they have two profiles, even if one isn't listed in another line), has a range of 18" or less (most 12" or less), it would be remarkably stupid design that they couldn't.

Also consider that the Ork Burna Weapon STILL has the rule to prevent this from happening. Why prevent something that's already in the rules? And it's not even listed as a reminder. Should Boltguns have a rule disallowing a Charge when Fired unless Slow and Purposeful or Relentless? What about Lascannons?

It breaks no rules to allow the Rod to Fire, Charge and use the Rod in Melee unless you choose to make it so. It's easier to use and set up than having to find reasons to justify they get a "free CCW" around the fact that they already have a defined Melee Weapon.

regarding orks, I am guessing you do not play orks.

the rule in question regarding dual profile weapons has existed in the rules for multiple editions now.

However-In 6th edition and before orks had to as an UNIT pick to fire burnas as one profile or the other- as such you could not opt to not fire some models weapons and use the other profile. Which is different than the basic rules. In the basic rules as you fire weapons in groupings based on models you could pick not to fire some models weapons to use the other profile which orks were prevented from doing. It is possible the people whom wrote the ork codex put the wording in there to point out to ork players that they could now in fact pick based on models firing like everyone else. Considering many people who play 40k seem to have a hard time letting go of rules from old editions/old codexes and would think not putting the rule in there might actually not mean they can fire as per the rulebook until a faq came out there I can see why the people whom wrote the codex might have included it. IE "HEY GUYS ITS OKAY TO PICK MODELS TO SHOOT AND THE OTHERS CAN USE THE ASSAULT PROFILE NOW!" versus silence on the rule change.

also regarding REESE.

Reese plays that FMC are immune to blasts and templates, which they are not by the rules as written its a house rule that completely changes core rules. You cannot base the house rules a group plays on as a reflection of how the rules work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

Parsalian wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
And then we get back into the issue where the model has a weapon with a melee type in its profile, therefore cannot use the "free ccw" rule, and therefore cannot make any attacks with a weapon.

Well, that's my point. The way it sounds to me is that when you choose the shooting phase profile, the weapon has the characteristics listed under the ranged profile and NOT the melee profile, therefore it isn't a melee weapon in that turn and should be able to use the "free ccw" rule. Maybe I missed something, but doesn't choosing one or the other mean that the one not chosen is not in effect? How can you claim that it still has the attributes of one profile even when you've chosen to have your weapon function as the other profile?

I must be missing something or I just can't wrap my head around something, but it seems like in order to not qualify for the "free ccw" rule, you're cherry picking a piece of one profile and applying it even when it's not in effect.

Ok the bit your missing is the use vs has bit.

The weapon has 2 profiles; 1 melee, 1 ranged(generally assault). You are able to choose which you use per turn, it still has the other profile it is just unavailable for use.

The free ccw rule is for models that do not have a melee profile weapon.

In the case of these dual profile weapons that you have chosen to shoot, you still have a weapon with a melee profile but it is unavailable for use. Ergo, no free ccw.

This btw is not really hiwpi; just how the RAW fails to function(I'd play it with a free ccw, and that unit has the choice of shoot or assault; the free ccw comes into play via overwatch).

the rules for assault do not actually give you a free ccw. They just tell you how to resolve attacks from models that do not have an available ccw. If you choose the shooting profile, you do not have an available ccw profile.

therefore there are rules on how to resolve the models assault.

So I have a unit of 10, fire with 5 in the shooting phase then charge and use 5 rods in close combat. Are we cool with that at least?
This needs an FAQ, and also needs to be applied equally to the other armies weapons that have this error.
If armed with a pistol and a chainsword, fire the bolt pistol then charge, I no longer can have +1 attacks, because the bolt pistol can't be used as a CCW in the same phase. Suck it marines?
Sillyness.

CaptainSuperglue wrote:
If armed with a pistol and a chainsword, fire the bolt pistol then charge, I no longer can have +1 attacks, because the bolt pistol can't be used as a CCW in the same phase. Suck it marines?
Sillyness.

This is a slightly different argument since the pistol isn't the weapon that you'd actually be attacking with. You're attacking with a completely different weapon, and by the explanations other have provided (not necessarily what i believe/agree with) the pistol still counts as your second melee weapon, so it provides the bonus attack even though you're not attacking with it. That's just my understanding of the interpretation that others are providing.

The logic here is that you can only ever attack with a single weapon profile per model per phase

CaptainSuperglue wrote:
So I have a unit of 10, fire with 5 in the shooting phase then charge and use 5 rods in close combat. Are we cool with that at least?
This needs an FAQ, and also needs to be applied equally to the other armies weapons that have this error.
If armed with a pistol and a chainsword, fire the bolt pistol then charge, I no longer can have +1 attacks, because the bolt pistol can't be used as a CCW in the same phase. Suck it marines?
Sillyness.

the problem with pistols is the +1 attack is not coming from the use of different profile so it's not a valid comparison.

pistols do not have a dual profile of (shooting) then (generic ccwpn or +1 attack as an additional weapon) they are just 1 profile with a special rule that gives a bonus attack in assault. For example the unit in question that can have rod of covenant can also get hyperphase sword and a pistol. they could shoot with the pistol and charge in assault and attack with their sword profile and have the special rule from pistols give them +1 attack as they are not using some dual other profile of the pistol[because there isnt one..] to make an attack with. As you can only use one weapon to strike with in assault you cannot even pick a profile of the pistol to be using as well...

but this would affect many eldar units with spear type weapons they can throw and use in assault and some other units as well.

If a weapon profile can only be used once in the shooting phase or the assault phase, then by firing with a pistol in the shooting phase you cannot use the profile for 'bolt pistol' in the assault phase, including the 'pistol' special rule, as it is part of the weapon profile. Thus no +1 attacks.
That's a devils advocate argument, because I think this whole thing is silly, but can anyone use RAW to argue against it?

I think I broke the game with that sentence.

CaptainSuperglue wrote:
If a weapon profile can only be used once in the shooting phase or the assault phase, then by firing with a pistol in the shooting phase you cannot use the profile for 'bolt pistol' in the assault phase, including the 'pistol' special rule, as it is part of the weapon profile. Thus no +1 attacks on the charge.
That's a devils advocate argument, because I think this whole thing is silly, but can anyone use RAW to argue against it?

I think that this is actually a misunderstanding of the rule. The argument is that the Rods have two separate profiles and NO other weapons. Pistols + Swords means that you can still attack with the benefit of the other profile, whereas with the Rod, people are saying that you can't attack at all, so it doesn't matter that it's also a melee weapon since you've used its possible action already that turn. Since the pistol's profile still counts on the model, you apply the bonus attack since it doesn't use the pistol's profile to actually perform the attack, you're using the chain sword. The rules simply give you a bonus attack with the weapon you're already attacking with. Since shooting with the Rod would prevent you from being able to use it as a melee weapon, it's a different argument.

CaptainSuperglue wrote:
If a weapon profile can only be used once in the shooting phase or the assault phase, then by firing with a pistol in the shooting phase you cannot use the profile for 'bolt pistol' in the assault phase, including the 'pistol' special rule, as it is part of the weapon profile. Thus no +1 attacks.
That's a devils advocate argument, because I think this whole thing is silly, but can anyone use RAW to argue against it?

I think I broke the game with that sentence.

its different than the rod as the rod has 2 profiles, the pistol has 1 profile. You can choose to fire with the pistols profile and still use the special rule of the pistol. The pistol has no second profile that is actually chooseable to use in assault.

the rod has two profiles, by the RAW if you pick the shooting profile you cannot pick the assault profile.

This does not mean you cannot fight in assault, but it does mean you cannot use the assault profile of the rod in assault that turn.

blaktoof wrote:


its different than the rod as the rod has 2 profiles, the pistol has 1 profile. You can choose to fire with the pistols profile and still use the special rule of the pistol. The pistol has no second profile that is actually chooseable to use in assault.

the rod has two profiles, by the RAW if you pick the shooting profile you cannot pick the assault profile.

This does not mean you cannot fight in assault, but it does mean you cannot use the assault profile of the rod in assault that turn.

"Some weapons can be used in combat as well as shooting. Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon's profile for each, and you can choose which to use each turn."

So you're saying the bolt pistol has no close combat profile, and you used the shooting profile in the shooting phase... so where is the allowence to use that same profile in the assault phase for the 'pistol' special rule?
The rule states that a weapon that can be used in both phases will have 2 profiles, a bolt pistol only has 1 profile, and therefore cannot be used in the assault phase and shooting phase because it does not meet this criteria, so we're back at square 1 with even more mud in the water.

CaptainSuperglue wrote:

blaktoof wrote:


its different than the rod as the rod has 2 profiles, the pistol has 1 profile. You can choose to fire with the pistols profile and still use the special rule of the pistol. The pistol has no second profile that is actually chooseable to use in assault.

the rod has two profiles, by the RAW if you pick the shooting profile you cannot pick the assault profile.

This does not mean you cannot fight in assault, but it does mean you cannot use the assault profile of the rod in assault that turn.

"Some weapons can be used in combat as well as shooting. Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon's profile for each, and you can choose which to use each turn."

So you're saying the bolt pistol has no close combat profile, and you used the shooting profile in the shooting phase... so where is the allowence to use that same profile in the assault phase for the 'pistol' special rule?
The rule states that a weapon that can be used in both phases will have 2 profiles, a bolt pistol only has 1 profile, so we're back at square 1 with even more mud in the water.

Does a pistol have two profiles? If false, the rule does not apply.
Does a pistol have a specific exception? If true, use that instead.

Game rules are a lot like computer code, just a lot of if statements and booleans.

To correct blaktoof - at no points was an entire unit of burnsboyz required to choose one or the other profile. In the 4th edition codes it simply allowed any non fired weapon to be used as a power weapon.

CaptainSuperglue wrote:

blaktoof wrote:


its different than the rod as the rod has 2 profiles, the pistol has 1 profile. You can choose to fire with the pistols profile and still use the special rule of the pistol. The pistol has no second profile that is actually chooseable to use in assault.

the rod has two profiles, by the RAW if you pick the shooting profile you cannot pick the assault profile.

This does not mean you cannot fight in assault, but it does mean you cannot use the assault profile of the rod in assault that turn.

"Some weapons can be used in combat as well as shooting. Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon's profile for each, and you can choose which to use each turn."

So you're saying the bolt pistol has no close combat profile, and you used the shooting profile in the shooting phase... so where is the allowence to use that same profile in the assault phase for the 'pistol' special rule?
The rule states that a weapon that can be used in both phases will have 2 profiles, a bolt pistol only has 1 profile, and therefore cannot be used in the assault phase and shooting phase because it does not meet this criteria, so we're back at square 1 with even more mud in the water.

You're ignoring my above explanation of why this is incorrect. You can even if you can't use the weapon to attack, it doesn't matter! Pistols are almost always paired with an actual ccw, which is (again) almost always the weapon chosen to make your attacks. You can only attack with a single weapon profile in the assault phase just like in the shooting phase. The bonus attack awarded from having a second melee weapon is taken USING THE SAME WEAPON PROFILE as the weapon you already chose. Meaning that having the +1 attack bonus from a pistol adds that extra attack to the SECOND melee weapon option's available attacks for the turn.

Example: Praetorian with Particle Caster and Void Blade

Shooting phase: you fire at the squad you're about to assault.
Assault phase: you elect to take melee attacks with your Voidblade (obviously)
You charged into combat, granting every model + 1 attack (base 2, so 3 attacks). You have your Particle casters and Voidblades providing an extra attack per model (now up to 4 attacks each).
ALL 4 ATTACKS are taken using the profile for the Voidblade from each model. 0 attacks actually use the Particle Caster as the attacking profile, therefore even though the pistol was fired and cannot be used to make an attack, the profile is still providing the "two melee weapon" bonus attack for having it on each model.

 Nilok wrote:

Does a pistol have two profiles? If false, the rule does not apply.
Does a pistol have a specific exception? If true, use that instead.

Game rules are a lot like computer code, just a lot of if statements and booleans.

I agree, but in this case there is a conflict between the two, which is ignored by everyone because it makes sense to ignore it.

"Some weapons can be used in combat as well as shooting"
Yup, bolt pistol is fine so far. Lets gun down some xenos in the shooting phase.

"Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon's profile "
Riiight so where is the separate profile which we can use for the weapon 'bolt pistol' during the assault phase? Without using the same profile as we used in the shooting phase, to get the 'pistol' special rule, which will allow an extra attack dice.


Without 2 profiles you can't use any pistol as a close combat weapon and a ranged weapon in the same turn, because it fails to meet the rule for weapons that can be used in both phases.

Why is this? Because they did not expect people on forums to pick apart every aspect of the rules. I'd say it's the same for the Rod, this rule is being dissected so much that there are some fairly good arguments to say that praetorians cannot make any form of close combat attack if they are charged (following an overwatch), and given that they are the necron equivalent of an assault squad, it's just silly. The necron codex is probably the worst in terms of rules writing they have released in a long while though, so who knows what they expected to happen with it. FAQ is required, and the answer that makes the most sense to me is to simply retract the BRB rule, as it conflicts with loads of the newer codexes.

This is going to sound childish and whiny, but omg stop ignoring my comment, lol.

pistols are never the "attacking weapon" and therefore don't technically need a second profile. They have 1 profile which also labels them as "melee." This bonus attack is taken ON THE OTHER MELEE WEAPON'S STAT LINE. This means that you're still following the rule of "use-able in only one phase per turn."

Parsalian wrote:
This is going to sound childish and whiny, but omg stop ignoring my comment, lol.

pistols are never that "attacking weapon" and therefore don't technically need a second profile. They have 1 profile which also labels them as "melee." This bonus attack is taken ON THE OTHER MELEE WEAPON'S STAT LINE.

I am sorry, I was not trying to be rude, I was worried I may be posting too much and didn't want to ruin the thread. I didn't exactly ignore you though, my point in the last post still applys to your reply, in that a weapon that can be used in more than one phase should have two profiles (BRB P41) and the pistol only has 1 profile. Therefore it cannot be used in both phases, 'attacking weapon' or not, you'd have to select which phase to use the single given profile in, unless you can find something that lets you use the same weapon profile in two phases with a melee weapon.... which would apply to the RoC too... which gets us back on topic instead of talking about bolt pistols!