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Hello, Dakka Dakka,

I've been inspired to collect a Militarum Tempestus army primarily for fluff and coolness factor. I scanned the codex and settled on the 29th Zetic Tygers, who are best known for defeating a Tzeentch invasion on a space station above Phellur III alongside the Death Korps of Krieg. During the battle, they made frequent use of Taurox Primes and defeated a Lord of Change. What I'm looking for is feedback on how the army can be made more competitive without sacrificing overall theme. Without further ado, here's the list:

MILITARUM TEMPESTUS COMBINED ARMS

Command Squad: Bolt Pistol, 3x Plasma Gun, Medi-Pack (245)
Taurox Prime: Twin-Linked Autocannon, Taurox Missile Launcher, Camo-Netting
This squad leads from the front lines. The medi-pack is there for two reasons: 1. It will help survive "Gets Hot! and 2. It will help keep them alive to maximize orders.

Command Squad: Power Fist, 4x Meltagun (150)
This is a straight-up suicide Melta team. I've chosen a command squad for suicide duty because orders can twin-link the Meltaguns and, if need be, give their Krak grenades Tank Hunter. I put a power fist on the Prime to finish off anything that survives the Melta storm.

10x Scions: 2x Plasma Gun (280)
Taurox Prime: Taurox Missile Launcher, Twin-Linked Autocannon, Camo-Netting
These two squads are bread and butter Scions that advance with the Plasma command squad.

10x Scions: 2x Plasma Gun (280)
Taurox Prime: Taurox Missile Launcher, Twin-Linked Autocannon, Camo-Netting
These two squads are bread and butter Scions that advance with the Plasma command squad.

10x Scions: 2x Hot-Shot Volley Gun (255)
Taurox Prime: Twin-Linked Autocannon, Twin-Linked Taurox Gatling Cannon, Camo-Netting
Including the Taurox and assuming Rapid Fire, this squad pumps out 14 S3 AP3 and 22 S4 AP3 shots per turn, which is a decent count for anti-horde duty.

5x Scions: 2x Meltagun (90)
This is a secondary Melta suicide squad. I'm not entirely convinced this squad is necessary, so if there's something that would be better in their place, please let me know.

Valkyrie (145)
Multi-Laser, 2x Multiple Rocket Pods, 2x Sponson-Mounted Heavy Bolter

Valkyrie (145)
Multi-Laser, 2x Multiple Rocket Pods, 2x Sponson-Mounted Heavy Bolter

Valkyries are Valkyries. I'm considering putting the Melta command squad and the Melta Scion squad in them, but am not sure if that's a good idea. It might be better to deep strike the Meltaguns. Please let me know your thoughts.

INQUISITORIAL DETACHMENT

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (84)
Warlord, Psyker (Mastery Level 1), Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Daemonhammer, 2x Servo Skull
I chose Ordo Malleus #1 for theme and #2 because Malleus Inquisitors are the most universal of the Inquisitors. The Inquisitor is my Warlord because, to be frank, Scion Warlord traits are garbage. I made him a Psyker to roll on Divination 95% of the time. I added two servo-skulls to act as deployment barriers and deep strike beacons.

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (171)
3x Crusader, 3x Death-Cult Assassin, Ministorum Priest
Chimera: 2x Heavy Flamer
The Inquisitor's merry band of murderers has been outfitted for assault. With three stormshields, eight power weapons, stubborn and hatred, this squad will put the hurt on most things in CC. I'm not sure if this is the best CC load-out for henchmen, so if there's a more optimized configuration, please let me know.

And that's a wrap! I'm debating replacing the Inquisitor/Henchmen with an Assassin, but from a competitive perspective, I think the Inquisitor is the better choice. Please provide your feedback and thank you in advance for your time.

Melta in Valkyries is always good - and probably the best infantry-in-transport based heavy anti-tank unit in the game.

Scions are not my area of expertise, but I say you can never go wrong with Plasma Guns hidden in sizable squads of scrubs to absorb wounds.

Taurox with Autocannon and Missile Launcher is pretty scary for light armour and heavy infantry, and you've got a good few of them.

Your inquisitor is going to be great for eating enemy characters alive.

Crusaders with Death Cult Assassins are very potent in assault, making up for your Scions' lack of dedicated assault.

Ministorum priest gives you great buffs on an already awesome assault unit.

Looks like a solid list to me.

IMO, the Inquisitor ISN'T going to do a whole lot in CC. T3 and swinging at I1 means he'll get beat up by almost anyone. A Marine sarge with a power maul will kill him in one hit in a challenge. S6 AP4 is pretty common in assaults, so expect him to die quickly.

I'd actually go with a Xenos Inquisitor for the fun grenades. And stick a Psyker into the Inq Warband--you can't pass up a 10pt warp charge.
(Also, the Inq you have kitted out is 76pts, not 84. Perhaps you forgot to list the Power Armour upgrade?)

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
IMO, the Inquisitor ISN'T going to do a whole lot in CC. T3 and swinging at I1 means he'll get beat up by almost anyone. A Marine sarge with a power maul will kill him in one hit in a challenge. S6 AP4 is pretty common in assaults, so expect him to die quickly.

I'd actually go with a Xenos Inquisitor for the fun grenades. And stick a Psyker into the Inq Warband--you can't pass up a 10pt warp charge.
(Also, the Inq you have kitted out is 76pts, not 84. Perhaps you forgot to list the Power Armour upgrade?)

Yes, the Inquisitor has power armour. I forgot to list the upgrade. Would giving him Terminator armour make a difference? I ask because I was going to do that initially, but decided not to because then the unit loses sweeping advance.

A Malleus Inquisitor also has psyk-out grenades. I didn't list them because all Inquisitors come with psyk-out, frag and krak grenades standard.

Thanks for the suggestion on adding a psyker. It's a good cheap way to get more psychic powers/warp charges.

I've recently started a very similar, if not identical.

I built up a decent number of Scions (40), A full Assassin Execution Force and a Close Combat Inquistion Warband.

I've got the models and bits to built up some Acolytes w/ Bolter (20).

I am going through the process of balancing out the list and considering what vehicle support to add.

I am of course deciding between Taurox Prime, Valkyries and the dedicated transports from the Inquisition Codex.

It is very difficult to fit the Assassins into the already pricey Tempestus Force; the army quickly becomes very small in terms of models.

I want to build an all-comers list and therefore need anti-flyer, anti-tank, and Close Combat tools.

I'd also like to add a Conversion Beamer Inquisitor, as it synergises well with the Vindicare (and brings Servo-Skulls); and both could man the aegis w/ Comms Relay that's almost a must-have for my deep-strike heavy Scion force.

Which vehicles? How many? Assassins?

Best,

Mallory

Taking scions outside of Astra Militarum codex or without that land formation is a very bad decision.

That's my competitive opinion.

It's not a full army, being unable to fill every tactical role on the battlefield and lacking expertise to do even its own, so I advise you to field them in their Ground Assault Formation. That's how hey get at least something to fight with.

You might be able to get some leverage by allying MT/Inq to the Cadia artillery formation.

MT's speed and mobility will get them upfield onto objectives, where their vox will be relevant to your backfield artillery.

The artillery's firepower paired with AM orders will do a lot to help project fire beyond the lackluster 18" range of your default weapons.

If you have Coteaz, you have good options for Interceptor to discourage drops, either with as Volleyguns or plasma/melta. Another Inquisitor with servo-skulls can further help your templates and shut down Scout moves.

I think Valks lack the firepower you need, and there is no point in the Henchman CC squad. Just drop zeroed artillery on any enemies that destroy your Scions in assault.

Yoyoyo wrote:
I think Valks lack the firepower you need

Yes, I agree. With Mont'ka, it's opened up Vendettas to Militarum Tempestus without having to pay for Astra Militarum unit taxes thanks to the Emperor's Spear Aerial Company. My list has changed to the following:

MILITARUM TEMPESTUS COMBINED ARMS

Command Squad: Bolt Pistol, 3x Plasma Gun, Medi-Pack (145)

Command Squad: Bolt Pistol, 3x Plasma Gun, Medi-Pack (145)

5x Scions: 2x Plasma Gun (200)
Taurox Prime: Taurox Missile Launcher, Twin-Linked Autocannon

5x Scions: 2x Plasma Gun (200)
Taurox Prime: Taurox Missile Launcher, Twin-Linked Autocannon

5x Scions: 2x Plasma Gun (200)
Taurox Prime: Taurox Missile Launcher, Twin-Linked Autocannon

5x Scions: 2x Meltagun (90)

5x Scions: 2x Meltagun (90)

Valkyrie: Multi-Laser, Multiple Rocket Pods, Heavy Bolter Sponsons (145)

EMPERORS SPEAR AERIAL COMPANY

Valkyrie: Multi-Laser, Multiple Rocket Pods, Heavy Bolter Sponsons (155)

Vendetta: 3x Twin-Linked Lascannon (170)

Vendetta: 3x Twin-Linked Lascannon (170)

OFFICIO ASSASSINORUM DETACHMENT
Eversor Assassin (135)

The thinking is to run my two command squads in the Valkyries and either deep strike the Meltagun teams or bring them in on the Vendettas depending on my opponent's army and the board setup. The Eversor is primarily a distraction, but I can see him berzerking out and dishing some pain as long as I choose my fights wisely.

I hadn't seen the Emperor's Spear Aerial Company yet. That sounds very appealing.

I had considered adding a Company Command Squad from AM and a taxed squad of Vets etc. in order to take a Vendetta over the lacklustre armaments and BS of the Valkyrie.

Out of curiosity, why are you running the Eversor over the other Assassin flavours? Points?

Best,

Mallory

Mallory wrote:
Out of curiosity, why are you running the Eversor over the other Assassin flavours?

My primary reason for taking an Eversor is to try and protect the AV11 Primes. Eversors get stuck in fast with Infiltrate, a 3d6" charge range and 8 attacks on the charge with the load-out to kill, or at least tie up, most threats in the game with a bolt pistol, needle pistol, power sword, fleshbane/shred neuro-gauntlet AND melta bombs. On turn one, if my Eversor can get in with my opponent's Devastators or take down a Wave Serpent for example, that's a huge win for my side.

I would also consider a Callidus. They hit harder than Eversors, but aren't nearly as flexible. Culexus Assassins are amazing at what they do, but are far too specialized and Vindicares are just bad.

I think it's a good balance of units but 1100pts in Reserves is something to manage. I'm sure you can figure out a solution, but definitely do some thinking on the best way to survive until your entire forces come in.

Yoyoyo wrote:
I think it's a good balance of units but 1100pts in Reserves is something to manage. I'm sure you can figure out a solution, but definitely do some thinking on the best way to survive until your entire forces come in.

Yes, that's a concern of mine as well and I just need to play it out to see how long the Tauroxes typically stay alive. One of the Emperor's Spear formation rules is that once you pass a reserve roll for one, the remaining units in the formation that haven't rolled that turn automatically come on as well. So, if the dice gods are with me and I pass the first role on turn two, both Vendettas and the one Valkyrie will come on, which helps get around the reserves drawback a bit. It may be a good argument to take Allied Imperial Guard for the Officer of the Fleet, but that messes up the points.

Consider an Aegis and Comms Relay? At 70pts it's a steal for the re-roll.

Also, are you relying on the multiple rocket pods and autocannons to deal with horde-based armies.

Concerned about the lack of flamer, I've started building some Flamer Acolytes to ride in (Psyflame) Chimera transports from Inquisition.

Please let us know how your game goes.

Best,

Mallory

An ML1 Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with Rad grenades and the "Hammerhand" power is a huge melee buff. Inquisitors are good multipliers, but are seldom good by themselves

Mallory wrote:
Consider an Aegis and Comms Relay? Also, are you relying on the multiple rocket pods and autocannons to deal with horde-based armies.

I haven't considered an Aegis, but that's a fantastic idea that prevents me from having to ally Guard. I really want to avoid Guard unit taxes. I've considered running flamers, but there's not really much horde nowadays. Orcs, Mob-Guard and Swarm-Nids are pretty much non-existent and Valkyries are pretty effective anti-horde on their own with 2x S4 Large Blasts, 6x Heavy Bolter shots and 3x Multi-laser shots per turn each.

I agree the Ground Assault Formation could be a great compliment to the new artillery formation. How many points does that leave? Enough for a Culexus or that new mont'ka psyker formation?

axisofentropy wrote:
I agree the Ground Assault Formation could be a great compliment to the new artillery formation. How many points does that leave? Enough for a Culexus or that new mont'ka psyker formation?

After upgrades, a Ground Assault and Artillery Company are close to 1,500 points. You can fit a Psykana in at 1750 and a Culexus in at 1,650, but I wouldn't combine them. Culexus Assassins hurt all psykers, not just enemy psykers.

 counterwavecounter wrote:

axisofentropy wrote:
I agree the Ground Assault Formation could be a great compliment to the new artillery formation. How many points does that leave? Enough for a Culexus or that new mont'ka psyker formation?

After upgrades, a Ground Assault and Artillery Company are close to 1,500 points. You can fit a Psykana in at 1750 and a Culexus in at 1,650, but I wouldn't combine them. Culexus Assassins hurt all psykers, not just enemy psykers.

"OR"

That looks like a the foundation of a well-rounded army, with fast troops and strong barrage, and either leveraging or negating psykers. What's missing? Assault? Objective Secured?

Shaping up nicely.

I like to prospect of bring some Vendatta's. I was never fully sold on the Valk. Too hit and miss (literally).

I think a Xenos Inquisitor with Conversion Beamer to man the Aegis and Relay might work well. Also allows for Servo-Skulls to help bring the Scions in on target.

The Eversor is very decent anti-horde come to think of it.


Best,

Mallory

I have always love the stormtrooper models and the idea of a stand alone force. Glad to see someone trying it out. Only bit I can comment on is the assassin. I play Raven Guard Talon Strike Force and I am running a callidus to distract my opponent from my units until my skyhammer annihilation force and raptor wing come in. Her ap2 flamer (that you can infiltrate 1" away from an enemy unit ) is gravy. Plus you opponent snap-shoots at her on his turn. That leaves you probably in range to charge and shred whatever you flamed.

my 2 cents on the assassin. Get some games in and let us know how it goes!

That was the main thing for me. I was a Fantasy player, and when they axed everything worthwhile about that universe I got me some Tempestus models (because they are undeniably great) and got down to learning 40k. Still getting there, and seem like a very fun force to play.

One thing on the formation; has anyone felt that the Ground or Air Assault requirement that requires the Scions be embarked turn 1 misses a trick in using the native Deep Strike and Move Through Cover special rules that we have.

I'd like try the Air Assault for the buffed Grav Chute Insertion, but I just feel Deep Striking, Min-Max Command Squads and Scions (so the orders can flow) may be more effective.

Best,

Mallory

Air assault can't start a game normally,, meaning if you want some scions main army, you got to take Ground Assault.

No issues with that though, metal boxes with cannons are better that flying boxes all day long. Taurox Prime ia weird, but Valkyrie is just bad.

Mallory wrote:
I'd like try the Air Assault for the buffed Grav Chute Insertion, but I just feel Deep Striking, Min-Max Command Squads and Scions (so the orders can flow) may be more effective.

Deep striking isn't all it's cut out to be. Mishaps are a very real problem. In addition you have to stand there for a turn in a tight-knit circle that has a blast bullseye on it's head. I don't like Grav Chute Insertion either. You still scatter and, on top of that, every model needs to take a dangerous terrain check, which is why I like the Emperor's Spear because you stay zooming and your boys don't scatter. Yes, there's the 3" high terrain drawback, but that can be moved around or risked.

Tauroxes pack alot of punch, but are very expensive for something that has the same armour value and hit points as a Rhino, which is why I think you need a little bit of everything, some ground, some deep strike and some air.

P.S.
Thank you everyone for the comments and feedback. I really appreciate it. There are some really great ideas in this thread that I'm going to try out.

I'm starting up a more airborne based scion army. At least to start it will be airborne then ill get enough for land as well. I like that second list a lot. On the assassins I have used them a bit and the eversor is the close combat master. The callidus comes next but is better for singular targets with 2+ armor. The culexus is good for denying psychic armies and dealing with good armor saves or possibly monstrous creatures with the insta death. The vindicare is ok for vehicle popping but that's it and he is only ok at it. I will probably bookmark this thread myself. I think valks could help deal with hordes for the scions personally but I shall find out. They seem like they could take care of most vehicles with meltas and creatures with plasma and most infantry with their own guns but the valks might help with things like the green tide which takes a lot of blasts or tons and tons of shots to take down. These are my personal thoughts but I haven't gotten any experience with the army itself at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also for the grab drop insertion with the move through cover that all the scions have wouldn't you ignore the dangerous terrain check?

 cranect wrote:
Also for the grab drop insertion with the move through cover that all the scions have wouldn't you ignore the dangerous terrain check?

I didn't consider that, but that's an awesome observation. They're still scattering when they hit the ground, but not having to take difficult terrain makes it more appealing.

Yep I thought it might. I think it still kills you if you scatter onto enemy units but no matter what no dangerous terrain checks make it better.

mt's as a competitive army bwahahaha your going to get rolled over the second an ork breaks out his kustom stompa. and if you cant beat the ork, you have no chance against the tau or the eldar

 ionusx wrote:
mt's as a competitive army bwahahaha your going to get rolled over the second an ork breaks out his kustom stompa. and if you cant beat the ork, you have no chance against the tau or the eldar

Thanks for trolling! Much appreciated. Anything constructive to add?

It's been mostly constructive so far.

I've settled on the Emperor's Spear comprised of three Vendetta Gunships (with the option to use the Low-Altitude Insertion).

Keeping the Comms Relay (it's even more crucial now as the formation allows all three squads to fly in from Reserve on a single successful roll)

What are people's thoughts on armaments for the Taurox Prime? I am running three and thinking that the Tauro Missile Launcher and TL Autocannon has to be the way.

Best,

Mallory

Personally to start I was thinking of going with 2 missile launchers and 2 battle cannons. I'd like to expand that to 3 missile, 4 battlecannons and maybe 1-2 gatling eventually. I'd use autocannons for everything but the gatling cannon. For the gatling I'd use the hotshot volley gun since its closer to the gatling. For just three rauroxes I would think the missile launcher and aurocannon would be best.