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Maybe this doesn't belong on Dakka, but I have nowhere else to post. My now deceased grandpa gave me a pen a few months before he died. The pen is pretty nice, I've been using it ever since. Now, I've noticed it's started to run out of ink. Here's where the dilemma comes in. If I go change the ink cartridge, will it still... be the same pne? I know it sounds weird, but I have a strong emotional bond to it.

The pen is the case. The container is not. It is still the same pen if you replace it.

That's a pretty fundamental philosophical question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

Personally, yes it is the same pen.

 Fifty wrote:
The pen is the case. The container is not. It is still the same pen if you replace it.

This. Also your Grandpa probably changed it out many times himself.

Fountain pens either have a permanent ink reservoir that you refill from a bottle, or they load cartridges. Modern types, since at least 30 years, have a removable ink reservoir and also accept cartridges.

I don't see any problem with refilling the fountain pen.

 Matthew wrote:
Maybe this doesn't belong on Dakka, but I have nowhere else to post. My now deceased grandpa gave me a pen a few months before he died. The pen is pretty nice, I've been using it ever since. Now, I've noticed it's started to run out of ink. Here's where the dilemma comes in. If I go change the ink cartridge, will it still... be the same pne? I know it sounds weird, but I have a strong emotional bond to it.

There's no moral dilemma here.

What do YOU feel you want to do? Do you want to save it now for memories or use it occassionally remember? Either is just fine, but its what your heart wants to do.

As an example, when Dad passed he had a relatively new little car. Nothing fancy, but Mom and I came to an unspoken agreement. We kept driving it just enough to keep everything working. When mom passed I kept doing that. Last weekend I brought it up for GC. Now she has their car that they used, full of happy memories. She's even keeping the Ray Charles, Tina Turner and Tom Jones cds in it, as a keepsake.

 pretre wrote:
That's a pretty fundamental philosophical question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

Personally, yes it is the same pen.

After I read the OP but before I scrolled down to read the responses, I thought to myself, "This is kind of like a variation of the Ship of Theseus..."

In this case, definetely the same pen.

I have a better question. If, eventually you replace all parts of the pen, over time, is it the same pen?

I actually thought of the Theseus Ship before posting this. I know it is the same pen, but I feel like it wont be the same.

 Matthew wrote:
I actually thought of the Theseus Ship before posting this. I know it is the same pen, but I feel like it wont be the same.

Think of it this way.

Would it be more of a shame not never use the pen again because its out of ink

or to just refill the ink and keep using it.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 pretre wrote:
That's a pretty fundamental philosophical question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

Personally, yes it is the same pen.

After I read the OP but before I scrolled down to read the responses, I thought to myself, "This is kind of like a variation of the Ship of Theseus..."

In this case, definetely the same pen.

Ah yes, the ship of Theseus....

...also known as Trigger's broom.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I have a better question. If, eventually you replace all parts of the pen, over time, is it the same pen?

I knew some guys who had to rebuild an aircraft engine after it had been contaminated. As they dug deeper and deeper, they realised there wasn't a single component that didn't need replacing. They ordered all the parts for a brand new engine and built it. The only thing left over from the original engine was the serial number plate.

Unfortunately the serial plate had a log card with it. An entirely new engine - but because of that serial plate it had over 5,000 hours clocked on it. Bloody stupid.

If you do replace the ink canister, don’t throw out the old (grandfather’s) one. That way you can have your cake and eat it.

Mount it either on a stand or wall plaque


Edit

My last pack of smokes is in a glass container. Look nice and all. 3 Jan 12 0630 Last day I smoked a cigarette when I found out later I had a fight with cancer on my hand

Fountain pen, right? If it uses a cartridge rather than a built in reservoir or converter, and you want to keep the original cartridge, you can use a syringe to refill the cartridge.

 Matthew wrote:
Maybe this doesn't belong on Dakka, but I have nowhere else to post. My now deceased grandpa gave me a pen a few months before he died. The pen is pretty nice, I've been using it ever since. Now, I've noticed it's started to run out of ink. Here's where the dilemma comes in. If I go change the ink cartridge, will it still... be the same pne? I know it sounds weird, but I have a strong emotional bond to it.

If he gave you the pen it's because he wanted you to use it.

even if it's a plastic cartridge type fountain pen you should still be able to refill the old cartridge using a syringe of the sort you use to refill printer cartridges

you just need to buy a bottle of old fashioned ink

I go with the Terry Pratchett interpretation. You can replace the ink cartridge today, the clip next month, the tip next year, barrel next winter, and it will still be your grandfather's pen. The identity of the pen is an idea, rather than a concrete set of ingredients.

 Jimsolo wrote:
I go with the Terry Pratchett interpretation. You can replace the ink cartridge today, the clip next month, the tip next year, barrel next winter, and it will still be your grandfather's pen. The identity of the pen is an idea, rather than a concrete set of ingredients.

As cited previously, and despite my love for the man, this idea far predates Pratchett.

Your grandfather gave you a pen, a tool to write. There could be no greater way of honoring his gift by writing and thus giving the pen and thus his gift purpose.

 Henry wrote:

Ah yes, the ship of Theseus....

...also known as Trigger's broom.

Exactly what I thought

 Nevelon wrote:
If you do replace the ink canister, don’t throw out the old (grandfather’s) one. That way you can have your cake and eat it.

Don't eat the ink cartridge, though...

It is the thought that counts, the pen is just a concept that reminds you of your grandfather, if he had given you a car would you have been distraught if you had to add fuel, oil or breaking fluid?

No, if my dad's motorcycles has only the Frame left, is it the same?

 Matthew wrote:
Maybe this doesn't belong on Dakka, but I have nowhere else to post. My now deceased grandpa gave me a pen a few months before he died. The pen is pretty nice, I've been using it ever since. Now, I've noticed it's started to run out of ink. Here's where the dilemma comes in. If I go change the ink cartridge, will it still... be the same pne? I know it sounds weird, but I have a strong emotional bond to it.

Easy way to answer this.

It wasn't your grandfather who gave you the pen.

Humans change every cell of their bodies over the course of seven years. Therefore 'grandpa' was the latest of the sequence of simulcra of the original person who was alive at the time of your birth.
If he was nevertheless genuine grandpa to you, the pen is equally the same if a component is changed.

Dude, that is a mind screw right there.

Use the pen. He wanted you to.

keep the pen, throw it away, do whatever the heck you want with it. Just don't start keeping random crap lying around your house such as empty ink cartridges, its a small jump from there to hoarding

Seen plenty of hoarders start by keeping random, insignificant things dead relatives left laying around.

Gets creepy real quick.

Don't become that!

Yeah, I kinda started that when my dad passed. Now I only have a few significant things, like pics, the car, and a special model plane