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 Gamgee wrote:
I get a feeling its an energy reflector/redirector. It gets hit with an attack and attempts to gather and convert its energy into a reflected beam attack.

At least that's how I imagine it working.

Yeah...that's a poor explanation for poor rules-writing.

"We shot bolter rounds at it and it blew up a Land Raider!"

It could be good and balanced at the same time with a small tweak. Make it a hit with the same profile and limit it's effective range to 36".

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
How will blast weapons work with this thing, each wound is reflected back to it? Or what about stuff like the earth-shaker, the idea of shrapnel flying back across the battlefield to blow it up is as ridiculous as it is hilarious.

Wooow. I hadn't thought about that... Well that makes no freaking sense whatsoever now does it.

Even if it didnt have the restricted range of 36" but still shot back with the identical strength profile, it wouldnt be as bad.

Granted, its 6s that trigger it so its not auto-death to shoot into it without ignores cover. But its a dice game, i can totally see someone getting absolutely ravaged by this thing because the Tau player got lucky and rolled a bunch of 6s in one shooting round.

Thats really the only rule thats absurdly broken. The rest of it is about what you'd expect from it - pretty good but not outright insane. That reflect rule needs to change...

Blast weapons would reflect every successful cover save like usual. Meaning if you Barrage into the center of it, no cover no reflect, but if you originate outside of it or hit with normal blasts then every model that takes a cover can reflect the damage. The way its worded right now.
Again, that rule alone needs to change. Rest is perfectly fine.

if a model is within 1" of the shieldwall, but is on a droneport or gunrig (but the shieldwall is between it and an attacker) it actually gets two separate rolls to deflect shots as it uses two different rules. Probably not RAI but definitely RAW.

You make the cover save, roll once for the "Field Network" rule, then roll another die for the "Tidewall Field" rule.

Do we know how kroot and Vespid have survived?

Willing to bet Kroot/Vespid are completely untouched. They arent Gundam suits after all.
As awesome as the new suits are, we already know the Kroot have monstrous creatures roaming around. Be nice if we could see them fleshed out and have some Knarlocs lurking about (with rules that actually work....)

Well the reflect is still dumb, as dumb as it was on the cult mech monstrous creatures.

It is silly that every 6th wound you inflict back to you unless it is ignores cover.

" So if i don't have ignore cover , my shooting is not only reduced by 16%, i actually suffer the attack?"

Thats just good design

I'd be highly upset if Vespids aren't changed, at least the Kroot were somewhat playable.

 Buzzdady wrote:
if a model is within 1" of the shieldwall, but is on a droneport or gunrig (but the shieldwall is between it and an attacker) it actually gets two separate rolls to deflect shots as it uses two different rules. Probably not RAI but definitely RAW.

You make the cover save, roll once for the "Field Network" rule, then roll another die for the "Tidewall Field" rule.

Not RAI or even RAW.


If you make a successful cover save for a model on a Tidewall Gunrig or Droneport while one of the Shieldlines' barriers is between the attacker and the target, you would get one attempt to utilize the rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pizzaguardian wrote:
Well the reflect is still dumb, as dumb as it was on the cult mech monstrous creatures.

Oh please. Do you even know what the Kastelan Robot's "Repulsor Field" rule even does?

Because I can tell you right now that there is NOTHING broken about it.
The Tidewall's Field Network/Shieldline? It's going to be applicable to Psychic Powers and Blast weapons that don't have "Ignores Cover".

 Kanluwen wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pizzaguardian wrote:
Well the reflect is still dumb, as dumb as it was on the cult mech monstrous creatures.

Oh please. Do you even know what the Kastelan Robot's "Repulsor Field" rule even does?

Because I can tell you right now that there is NOTHING broken about it.
The Tidewall's Field Network/Shieldline? It's going to be applicable to Psychic Powers and Blast weapons that don't have "Ignores Cover".

Specifically, Psychic Powers that roll to-hit, so it doesn't affect Psychic Shriek, Novas, or Beam powers. Blast weapons with Barrage can also ignore the Shieldline.

So the terrain wasn't just limited edition, the rules for it are also "pay to win" it seems.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:
Well the reflect is still dumb, as dumb as it was on the cult mech monstrous creatures.

Oh please. Do you even know what the Kastelan Robot's "Repulsor Field" rule even does?

Because I can tell you right now that there is NOTHING broken about it.

Transport embarked squads tend to break this rules interaction with Repulsor fields, though yes, overall I'd agree it's handled much better than this wall thingy.

I'd have zero desire to bother playing with or against this thing. Way too many rules with a whole lot of potential interaction messiness and abuse potential.

jimkurtjimmy wrote:
So if I'm reading this correctly a land raider crusader could kill itself by shooting hurricane bolters at tau on the other side of a shield wall?

Looks that way. Hooray for loose wording! Now have whatshisface shoot the railgun to instakill T6 models with his -1 T ability.

Edit.
Darn autocorrect.

 pizzaguardian wrote:
Well the reflect is still dumb, as dumb as it was on the cult mech monstrous creatures.

It is silly that every 6th wound you inflict back to you unless it is ignores cover.

" So if i don't have ignore cover , my shooting is not only reduced by 16%, i actually suffer the attack?"

Thats just good design

The one on cult robots reflects a shot back, at the same profile.

This reflects back and AUTO wounds or glance regardless of your defense.

That's a huge difference.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
You have to scream 'AKIRA!' and 'TETSUO!' whilst using those futurebike conversions.

And we already have suits.

 Vhalyar wrote:
Hello there.

Spoiler:

 agnosto wrote:

jimkurtjimmy wrote:
So if I'm reading this correctly a land raider crusader could kill itself by shooting hurricane bolters at tau on the other side of a shield wall?

Looks that way. Hooray for loose wording! Now have whatshisface shoot the railgun to instakill T6 models with his -1 T ability.

Edit.
Darn autocorrect.

Against most things in the codex this won't happen, as it only works on cover saves. So everything but Kroot, Ethereals and Pathfinders should be using their normal armor save.

They 100% are new Crisis suits and I say this because if you go on the GW site the 3 pack of crisis suits that have been up for the past entire edition are gone and only the single pack is still up.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

jimkurtjimmy wrote:
So if I'm reading this correctly a land raider crusader could kill itself by shooting hurricane bolters at tau on the other side of a shield wall?

Looks that way. Hooray for loose wording! Now have whatshisface shoot the railgun to instakill T6 models with his -1 T ability.

Edit.
Darn autocorrect.

Against most things in the codex this won't happen, as it only works on cover saves. So everything but Kroot, Ethereals and Pathfinders should be using their normal armor save.

Why would you use your 4+ armor save on Fire Warriors when you could use your 4+ cover save and potentially glance a vehicle to death?
Additionally, because all of them are Battlefield Debris(Defense Line), you get +2 when you GTG.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

jimkurtjimmy wrote:
So if I'm reading this correctly a land raider crusader could kill itself by shooting hurricane bolters at tau on the other side of a shield wall?

Looks that way. Hooray for loose wording! Now have whatshisface shoot the railgun to instakill T6 models with his -1 T ability.

Edit.
Darn autocorrect.

Against most things in the codex this won't happen, as it only works on cover saves. So everything but Kroot, Ethereals and Pathfinders should be using their normal armor save.

Why would you use your 4+ armor save on Fire Warriors when you could use your 4+ cover save and potentially glance a vehicle to death?
Additionally, because all of them are Battlefield Debris(Defense Line), you get +2 when you GTG.

Wasn't aware you could choose to use the cover instead of the armor save if they are the same. As far as GTG, that makes you have to snap fire next turn, forcing you to waste markerlights to bring that unit back up to full effectiveness. This could be mitigated for one turn however using the warlord trait that lets you get back up with no penalty, but who knows if that trait will even still exist in a couple of weeks.

Sidstyler wrote:So the terrain wasn't just limited edition, the rules for it are also "pay to win" it seems.

Vaktathi wrote: Transport embarked squads tend to break this rules interaction with Repulsor fields, though yes, overall I'd agree it's handled much better than this wall thingy.

I'd have zero desire to bother playing with or against this thing. Way too many rules with a whole lot of potential interaction messiness and abuse potential.

You want to know my opinion? The "reflecting shots" is a poorly worded gimmick. There are plenty of weapons that can get around both the reflecting and the wall itself, and the fortification is appropriately costed at almost 300 points.

Chances of a Space Marine killing himself with his own bolter on the reflection (counting as rapid-firing): 1 in 27, or just under 4%. Not exactly a massive threat.

EDIT: Mathhammer error. Turns out it's slightly more likely than I thought.

GTG would be useful to help put wounds/hps on pesky fliers... 2+ for a chance to get a 6 for rebound. Ethereal could potentially let you double those snap fired shots the next turn..and MLs currently boost snap shots..

 agnosto wrote:
GTG would be useful to help put wounds/hps on pesky fliers... 2+ for a chance to get a 6 for rebound. Ethereal could potentially let you double those snap fired shots the next turn..and MLs currently boost snap shots..

Yeah, but do you want to spend 4+ markerlights to get that squad back up to BS 5 where it should be?

There is a different special rule that allows the 2+ for going to ground, damned if I can remember the name but it isn't on these walls.

The ground to ground for +2 was in the old Aegis Defense Line rules. I forget which specific rule mentioned it but it had to do with the ADL's terrain type, not the ADL specifically.

I dont think the Tidewall has that same classification, neither do i know if that +2 gtg exists since ADL got stripped from the 7th BRB and feth buying another full price book for the limited amount of fortification rules.

EDIT: Nevermind found it. Pg109 in the BATTLEFIELD DEBRIS section under Defense Line:

"A model in cover behind a defense line has a 4+ cover save. If a unit Goes to Ground, then the models from the unit gain +2 to the over save from the defense line rather than +1...." rest goes on about base contact across the wall.

Tidewall says its a Defense Line (and why do they spell it with a c every time...) so it confers a 4+ which goes to a 2+ if you goto ground.
I know in 6th it said if you had multiple saves to choose from, pick the highest. But i cant find squat about it in 7th. Only thing i can find that shows if you have equal armor and cover you cant take the cover is Armor doesnt have any word along the lines of "may" while Cover does. The wording in the Armor Saves makes it sound mandatory whether you want to or not.

And its not marine fire thats threatening on the rule's wording, its primarily vehicles since it ignores the weapon strength and just does automatic glancing damage. Its more of an annoyance to number marine squads not a real threat. But it can wipe vehicles fairly well.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
There is a different special rule that allows the 2+ for going to ground, damned if I can remember the name but it isn't on these walls.

Yup. It's part of the rules for Defense Lines. let's run the number again with the 2+ GtG.

Chances of a Space Marine killing himself with his own bolter on the reflection (rapid-firing, 2+ cover save): just under 6.2%. Still not buying the threat from the barrier reflection.

Oh, and as if to add insult to injury, I keep getting e-mails from GW reminding me to complete my order for the Tidewall, which sold out while I was in the process of checking out. I guess it's still somehow showing as being in my basket or something, and it's causing me to get e-mail reminders, even though there's nothing in my basket on the website.

So...anchor a storm surge on the rampart to give him all the shooting buffs, he can move six inches without counting as moving, and get him a bounce back cover save....sounds like they were made for each other hehe

Do we have updates on the Stealth Formation with the Ghostkeel? If anyone could update the front page or at least add everything to a later page it would be great.

Codex isn't out yet so no, no info beyond the name.