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 Nilok wrote:
Wait, the Fire Team rule applies to all vehicles and MCs, not just the ones that have the rule?

Well, that makes Coordinated Firepower even better for any vehicles that don't have the Fire Team rule. It also allows a Riptide, a Skyray, and a Hammerhead to join up and activate their Fire Team rule without a full unit of any of them.
Oh, and since three units teamed up, they trigger Coordinated Firepower's second rule and get another +1 BS, so BS6 Hammerheads and Skyrays and BS5 Riptides and Ghostkeels.

Only some vehicles have Fire Team rule. Devilfishes and Piranhas don't.

Retaliation Cadre....

Broadsides with Relentless. Uh....ouch lol.

maceria wrote:

Broadsides aren't mobile UNLESS YOU DEEPSTRIKE THEM!

Yes. But, if you're deepstriking them, you're deepstriking 3 units of crisis. why give crisis 2 shots S7 weapons when you can give them 3 shots S7 weapons? 18" isn't a problem when you DS.

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Nilok wrote:
Wait, the Fire Team rule applies to all vehicles and MCs, not just the ones that have the rule?

Well, that makes Coordinated Firepower even better for any vehicles that don't have the Fire Team rule. It also allows a Riptide, a Skyray, and a Hammerhead to join up and activate their Fire Team rule without a full unit of any of them.
Oh, and since three units teamed up, they trigger Coordinated Firepower's second rule and get another +1 BS, so BS6 Hammerheads and Skyrays and BS5 Riptides and Ghostkeels.

Only some vehicles have Fire Team rule. Devilfishes and Piranhas don't.

Thats does not matter. According to the rules, as long as 3 thing with it do, ALL MC or vehicles get it. Aka, I fire 3 hammerheads at one target, every single other MC or Vehicle that also combines and shoots with the 3 hammerheads also get +1 BS even though they do not have the fire team rule themselves.

Are there any weapon updates in the book? Specifically Railsides?

Lots of hilarious tricks with the new Tau codex as it should be, while all the old tricks remain.

Requizen wrote:
Are there any weapon updates in the book? Specifically Railsides?

railsides the same
AirBurst Frag Proj. and Cyclic Ion blasters are no longer 1 per army, all crisis can take them
Destroyer missiles (on stormsurge) are Str D, AP1 when fired with a marker light

Thats all i can think of now

 Vector Strike wrote:

Tinkrr wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
1-9 Crisis is awesome. But letting them grab CIB/AFB is even better

Neither is really that good though, I mean they'r not bad, but we just already have Missile Sides and the new Ion Rake. Which means the Plasma Rifle is that much more unique on the Crisis Suits.

Yet another reason I'd like to see regular Rail Rifle options on the Crisis Suits, even if they're limited.

Ghostkeel starts at 130p. For a bit more, you can have 3 crisis with 2 CIBs each. They'll pump 18 S7 shots while for a bit less the Ghostkeel will do only 6.
You use CIB Crisis with Deep Strike. they're not worth it starting the game in the table. Broadsides aren't mobile. Or just use both and have even more S7.

Same with AFP. They're better than flamers in pratically any scenario, bar overwatch.

Crisis in Retaliation are simply murder.

The interesting thing is that the difference between three Crisis Suits with 2x CIB each, and two Crisis Suits with 2x CIB, is 26 points in either direction of the Ghostkeel. As in three Suits is 26pts more than a Ghost, and two Suits are 26pts under a Keel.

That being said, does that in any way make them better than the Plasma Rifle option they could have? Yes, you gain a total of +6 shots and +1 strength across the unit, but you give up AP2, which isn't common within the Tau army, and lets you kill things like Termies, Marines, and even Suits that much better. More so, you're forcing yourself to deep strike, just to gain +6 shots at half the range, if you compare them to Missile Pod Suits, which can in many cases hurt you a lot.

It might just be me, but if I want fire power I'd go for Missile Sides, if I want that fire power but on a more mobile version with much better survival capabilities, I'd go with a Ghostkeel, and if I wanted the middle point of those two, I'd go for Missile Suits. Though like I said, it's not that the CIB is bad, it's just that it's redundant, and there are simply better options like Plasma Rifles when fitting the Suits, as they actually offer something unique.


As for the AFP, I just don't feel like it does all that much either. Yes it's incredibly good at killing troops, but Tau don't really struggle with that as is.

The Fire Team rule says "all vehicles and monstrous creatures IN THE UNIT". Don't see what the confusion is, only the unit with the special rule benefits. Come on guys....

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Nilok wrote:
Wait, the Fire Team rule applies to all vehicles and MCs, not just the ones that have the rule?

Well, that makes Coordinated Firepower even better for any vehicles that don't have the Fire Team rule. It also allows a Riptide, a Skyray, and a Hammerhead to join up and activate their Fire Team rule without a full unit of any of them.
Oh, and since three units teamed up, they trigger Coordinated Firepower's second rule and get another +1 BS, so BS6 Hammerheads and Skyrays and BS5 Riptides and Ghostkeels.

Only some vehicles have Fire Team rule. Devilfishes and Piranhas don't.

Thats does not matter. According to the rules, as long as 3 thing with it do, ALL MC or vehicles get it. Aka, I fire 3 hammerheads at one target, every single other MC or Vehicle that also combines and shoots with the 3 hammerheads also get +1 BS even though they do not have the fire team rule themselves.

you need the fire them rule to benefit from the fire team rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Are there any weapon updates in the book? Specifically Railsides?

railsides the same
AirBurst Frag Proj. and Cyclic Ion blasters are no longer 1 per army, all crisis can take them
Destroyer missiles (on stormsurge) are Str D, AP1 when fired with a marker light

Thats all i can think of now

Specifically 1 ML can be spent to upgrade one d missile to a D missile, on a 1 per basis. The stormsurge then fires it at its own BS whatever that happens to be.

By the by, remember when I pointed out a trick involving Buffmander + Target Locks in a unit to get the Buffmander benefits and do the focus fire trick at multiple targets?

The wording of the Coordinated Firepower is as follows;

"Whenever a unit from a Hunter Contingent selects a target in the shooting phase, any number of other units from the same Detachment who can still shoot can add their firepower to the attack. These units must shoot the same target, resolving their shots as if they were a single unit - this includes the use of markerlight abilities. When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their Ballistic Skill."

Thoughts?

Also, potential rules question; if a Stormsurge is a secondary/tertiary/whatever unit that joins the shooting attack, can it legally fire one gun at the target but still shoot its other weapons at other targets at the same time? Regardless of how it splits its attacks it is still shooting at the same target....also thoughts?

Caederes wrote:
The Fire Team rule says "all vehicles and monstrous creatures IN THE UNIT". Don't see what the confusion is, only the unit with the special rule benefits. Come on guys....

Coordinated Firepower wrote:These units must shoot the same target, resolving their shots as if they were a single unit - this includes the use of markerlight abilities.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Nilok wrote:
Wait, the Fire Team rule applies to all vehicles and MCs, not just the ones that have the rule?

Well, that makes Coordinated Firepower even better for any vehicles that don't have the Fire Team rule. It also allows a Riptide, a Skyray, and a Hammerhead to join up and activate their Fire Team rule without a full unit of any of them.
Oh, and since three units teamed up, they trigger Coordinated Firepower's second rule and get another +1 BS, so BS6 Hammerheads and Skyrays and BS5 Riptides and Ghostkeels.

Only some vehicles have Fire Team rule. Devilfishes and Piranhas don't.

Thats does not matter. According to the rules, as long as 3 thing with it do, ALL MC or vehicles get it. Aka, I fire 3 hammerheads at one target, every single other MC or Vehicle that also combines and shoots with the 3 hammerheads also get +1 BS even though they do not have the fire team rule themselves.

you need the fire them rule to benefit from the fire team rule.

No you do not, read the exact wording. As long as 3 models in a unit have fire team, ALL MONSTEROUS CREATURES AND VEHICLES IN THE UNIT GET +1BS. When firing with the combined firing of the hunters contingent, you fire multiple units AS IF ALL MODELS ARE IN THE SAME UNIT.

AKA as long as 3 models with fire team fire at a single target (even if not in the same unit), all other MC and vehicles firing at that same target all get +1 BS as well

Crisis suits also have a bad habit of going byebye at medium range, which the CIB forces. Ghostkeels even without their stealth rules are T5 with 4 wounds. That makes them 4x as hard to kill normally and significantly harder to instaspork.

Almost every time i field crisis suits with something other than missilepods, they manage to find an S8 shot to the face. Ghostkeel wont care more than he would about any shot hitting him.

I'd rather field the ghosts. And dont forget to factor in their fusion blaster. Yeah its one shot, but a melta usually kills something every turn. Usually.

Oh now I see what you guys are getting at, you are specifying for the Hunter Contingent combined fire rule. It seemed like you guys were suggesting anyone could get the rule as long as three vehicles were in a unit with the rule.

In that case, yeah...Fire Team is REALLY nasty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually to the guys that have the codex, is the Shoot then Run thing for the Hunter Cadre using Snap Shots like the Ethereal power or is it regular shots? luchiban didn't clarify this. Cheers!

It doesn't hurt the Ghostkeel can also use the Holopoint to kind of break a lot of the special burst things people might do, with all their psyker powers and junk.

Oh and, not only that but I'm sure we'll see less squads of Crisis Suits now that they're 1-9 as opposed to 1-3, since all of a sudden we can totally make that much more use of our uh-mazing Buffmanders. (As a former support player in League, I love the idea of a support Commander).

Edit: Sorry if I missed it, but aside from that one "meh" formation, did the Vespids get changed at all?

@Tinkrr

They did not.

Caederes wrote:
@Tinkrr

They did not.

I am full of rage now :(

If there has ever been a unit that needed a change, that was it.

Caederes wrote:
Oh now I see what you guys are getting at, you are specifying for the Hunter Contingent combined fire rule. It seemed like you guys were suggesting anyone could get the rule as long as three vehicles were in a unit with the rule.

In that case, yeah...Fire Team is REALLY nasty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually to the guys that have the codex, is the Shoot then Run thing for the Hunter Cadre using Snap Shots like the Ethereal power or is it regular shots? luchiban didn't clarify this. Cheers!

It just says run then shoot if within 12" of the formations Fireblade or commander. It does not say snapshot.

To be fair, Infiltrate is a pretty huge buff for Vespid, it doesn't make them good but it makes them usable. The problem is that you need to spend over 200 points on Kroot just to get Infiltrating Vespid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Caederes wrote:
Oh now I see what you guys are getting at, you are specifying for the Hunter Contingent combined fire rule. It seemed like you guys were suggesting anyone could get the rule as long as three vehicles were in a unit with the rule.

In that case, yeah...Fire Team is REALLY nasty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually to the guys that have the codex, is the Shoot then Run thing for the Hunter Cadre using Snap Shots like the Ethereal power or is it regular shots? luchiban didn't clarify this. Cheers!

It just says run then shoot if within 12" of the formations Fireblade or commander. It does not say snapshot.

Wow that's actually insane, especially as it also works with vehicles for Flat Out. Jeez....ummm, yeah, as someone pointed out a few pages back Running does not count as moving for the purposes of being treated as stationary when firing Heavy weapons, meaning Tau have moving Broadsides firing at full effect now

Caederes wrote:
To be fair, Infiltrate is a pretty huge buff for Vespid, it doesn't make them good but it makes them usable. The problem is that you need to spend over 200 points on Kroot just to get Infiltrating Vespid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Caederes wrote:
Oh now I see what you guys are getting at, you are specifying for the Hunter Contingent combined fire rule. It seemed like you guys were suggesting anyone could get the rule as long as three vehicles were in a unit with the rule.

In that case, yeah...Fire Team is REALLY nasty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually to the guys that have the codex, is the Shoot then Run thing for the Hunter Cadre using Snap Shots like the Ethereal power or is it regular shots? luchiban didn't clarify this. Cheers!

It just says run then shoot if within 12" of the formations Fireblade or commander. It does not say snapshot.

Wow that's actually insane, especially as it also works with vehicles for Flat Out. Jeez....ummm, yeah, as someone pointed out a few pages back Running does not count as moving for the purposes of being treated as stationary when firing Heavy weapons, meaning Tau have moving Broadsides firing at full effect now

and pathfinders!

Wait wait did i seriously miss crisis suits being 1-9?

What the heck? Thats insane lol. My friends fething hate my MP trio as it is, theyre going to wanna kick my butt if i even double that let alone triple rofl

So.... what if GW put out a fake codex early to screw with people? That's why XV8 are up to 9!

So let me get this straight.

The Hunter Contingent gives +1 Ballistic Skill if 3 or more units shoot at the same target.
The Fire Team rule gives +1 Ballistic Skill for the combined shooting as long as three monstrous creatures/vehicles are a part of the attack (they all count as one unit regardless of whether they are purchased as such).

So basically....I can take a Hunter Cadre, get a Riptide, a Stormsurge and a Hammerhead to shoot at one unit and get +2 BS from the Hunter Contingent and Fire Team rules, or they can add to the combined shooting of the rest of the army and give them +2 BS as well?

WHAT!?

Oh, and anyone in the Hunter Cadre can Run then Shoot without having to Snap Fire, meaning Broadsides/Pathfinders/Hammerheads/etc can actually "move" and still fire at full effect.

Christ almighty.

Got my hands on both the new codex and Kayon. Excellent.

Broadsides would still fire snap since they need Relentless to move and shoot to begin with. Unless theyre apart of the retaliation cadre, which gives them relentless.

Ive done that a few times where ive had an Ethereal pop Zephyrs Grace and ran my broadsides into a more favorable midfield position. They fire snaps if i move at all, so why not move an extra D6?

Got a hold of a copy of the leaked codex from the black library from earlier. Pretty much everything that has been leaked so far is accurate. The only thing that I noticed that was different was that the models that have the fire team special rule will always be +1 BS, regardless of who they shoot at, as long as the squad consists of 3 models. Crisis suits and broadsides do not have this special rule. The ones that do are:

Ghostkeels
Riptides
Hammerheads (not longsrike surprisingly)
Sky Rays

If you guys have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. I didn't play Tau with the previous codex, however, so if you're looking for a comparison, I'll have to actually flip back and forth to figure it out. No problem doing it - just might take a little longer

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Broadsides would still fire snap since they need Relentless to move and shoot to begin with. Unless theyre apart of the retaliation cadre, which gives them relentless.

Ive done that a few times where ive had an Ethereal pop Zephyrs Grace and ran my broadsides into a more favorable midfield position. They fire snaps if i move at all, so why not move an extra D6?

Heavy weapons require stationary models in the movement phase. Running in the shooting phase doesn't apply.

To be fair, is the 1-9 thing really that big of a deal? Like we've already had a codex supplement that allowed Crisis Suits as troop choices.

I think what they're trying to do is make Crisis Suits, and to some extent Riptides, saturate less of the Elite slot, such that we have more room for things like the Ghostkeel and the Stealth Suits. Though that still doesn't address all of the issues Stealth Suits have, and I still think they'd just make better troop options.

Realistically many people already fielded six plus Crisis Suits, and could get away with more thanks to things like the FSE or just the body guard teams, but at least now there's more room for other elite choices. Not only that, but making one unit of six, instead of two units of three, isn't exactly always better, because it makes shooting more awkward at times, while also making return fire potentially do more damage.

Also, confirmed that the run and shoot thing works, but only for units from the hunter cadre, and only if they're within 12" of the commander at the start of the shooting phase. So no stealth cadre units doing that