Making Your Own Characters

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**Colehkxix**

Hi,

I usually run with an expensive Lord Commissar with Deathmask, Power Weapon and Plasma Pistol, and I noticed that he costs just under what Commissar Yarrick does. Unfortunately my model uses a Plasma Pistol, and this is nowhere near a storm bolter, so I cannot use him as Yarrick.

But that got me thinking: Has anyone here ever wanted to, or used their own made up characters in games? Modified an existing character in a codex with the options they want (like adding a plasma pistol to Yarrick) or perhaps gone even further and changed attributes and/or added special rules? With the opponent's permission of course.

I'm rather new to the game, and I feel as if the store I go to is quite heavy on adhering exactly to the rules (even if they don't know them very well themselves). But I'm interested in hearing if anyone else has any opinions of experience with this.

Thanks,

**Quanar**

Creating your own characters is quite popular, and you'll probably find several threads in the Proposed Rules sub-forum on this idea (some more balanced than others).

Many gamers consider their general (i.e. Warlord) to be their 'manifestation' or 'avatar' on the battlefield, including backstories and lovingly converted models, and this is not unlike roleplaying games such as Dungeons and Dragons. Most will use the customization already present in the game (i.e. wargear choices), but obviously you can choose to go further and invent your own rules.

Generally, "homebrew" characters will be restricted purely to casual games amongst friends, although some narative campaigns include rules for improving your heros as the campaign goes on.

**Colehkxix**

Quanar wrote:
Creating your own characters is quite popular, and you'll probably find several threads in the Proposed Rules sub-forum on this idea (some more balanced than others).

Many gamers consider their general (i.e. Warlord) to be their 'manifestation' or 'avatar' on the battlefield, including backstories and lovingly converted models, and this is not unlike roleplaying games such as Dungeons and Dragons. Most will use the customization already present in the game (i.e. wargear choices), but obviously you can choose to go further and invent your own rules.

Generally, "homebrew" characters will be restricted purely to casual games amongst friends, although some narative campaigns include rules for improving your heros as the campaign goes on.

Oh wow! I never knew! I'm checking the proposed rules section now and taking a quick look.

Sadly I don't know too much about converting models. I am very happy with the base model I have for the moment, but will look into converting once I have a base army set up. I love the idea of bringing more roleplaying into my Warhammer games.

I'm trying to treat the game casually, rather than as a competitive wargame. Take the units I like the look and feel of, rather than the best winning units. I feel as if a few players around me appreciate that. Taking this Lord Commissar is part of that.

**Quanar**

Colehkxix wrote:
Sadly I don't know too much about converting models. I am very happy with the base model I have for the moment, but will look into converting once I have a base army set up. I love the idea of bringing more roleplaying into my Warhammer games.

I'm trying to treat the game casually, rather than as a competitive wargame. Take the units I like the look and feel of, rather than the best winning units. I feel as if a few players around me appreciate that. Taking this Lord Commissar is part of that.

Converting isn't mandatory - if you think the base model is cool, leave it as it is! I'm glad you've found some like-minded folk too.

**ProwlerPC**

Well, I plan on making an Orkimedes character while staying withing codex rules and not altering stats which would make him even tourney legal. Expensive as heck though and being fluffy there's a bit of redundancy in the melee selection I want to give him when modeling.

Big Mek with Mega Armour, Power Klaw, Kill Saw, Tellyport Blasta, Super Cybork Body, Mega Force Field, Mek's Tools, Stikkbombs

At 235 pts that would put him 10 pts higher then Ghazzy and just like Ghazzy he hasn't selected grots and squigs yet. 2+ Armour, 4+ Invuln, 5+ fnp, Eternal Warrior, Relentless but Bulky and Slow and Purposeful, Armourbane, and Tellyported abilites on top of the usual Ere We Go, Furious Charge and Mob Rule abilities. All attacks are from an AP2 weapon but he needs to be close. I envision an Ork that is more machine then Ork toiling in the shop with his saw and klaw arms as well as that tellyporta being used by him to move things around his shop conveniently but easily tweaked to be a weapon. Pretty much a Lord of War at this point.

Also I'm giving him the Deathskull colours. It's never been specified which klan he's originally from but just like Dok Grotsnik he has been with Ghazzy since the beginning. He and Dok Grot also seem to work well together churning out cyborks and deff dread squads like no others so I'm inclined to believe he came from the same Deathskull clan that was the first orks that began to follow Ghazzy after he woke up from the Doks tent and bashed in the Deathskull Warboss to take over.

**Red__Thirst**

I'll say I love the idea of building up characters to lead my forces. Though I never use 'named' special characters outside of the odd one-off game. The concept of using a named character as basis for your own conversion is fine, however it needs to be expressly stated to your opponent so they are aware, and the wargear on your conversion should match as closely as possible to the wargear on the actual named character's equipment list and original physical model. A big part of the game is WYSIWYG (what you see is what you've got).

An example I'll give is someone taking Commander Dante, the chapter master of the Blood Angels, and using Sanguinary Guard plastic bits to make a plastic version of him for gaming, as the old white metal sculpt (or God forbid the finecast version of the same model) can be a little top-heavy and difficult to use on anything but a perfectly flat surface (though the new 32mm bases help with tipping quite a bit). The conversion in question used a melta pistol and a single bladed axe (with the same hands even holding the weaponry compared to the original sculpt) a death mask, artificer armor, jump pack, frag & Krak grenades, etc etc. and was painted up in gold armor like Dante. In this example, I'd have zero issue seeing anyone have a problem with it.

That said, kitbash and build your own character! I'll give you an example if I can take a moment and show off my most recent completed character conversion:

Epistolary Librarian and Warden of the Watch, Brother Levi, Blackshield Ceded to the Deathwatch

A basic Space Marine Librarian, upgraded to Mastery Level 2, armed with Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Psychic Hood, and a Force Weapon (Axe, obviously). He doesn't have anything crazy as far as innate unique special rules, but he does use Biomancy as his primary psychic dicipline, so he usually has a few cool special rules that his psychic abilities grant him. Doing this for a Captain, or Chapter Master, and giving him some Relics and the like will help differentiate him and make him uniquely yours, as is the case with the Lord Commissar you mentioned there Colehkxix.

Have fun with it, and if you need help learning how to convert, fear not! There are a lot of people on here who can offer suggestions and guidance. The main point of advice I'll give you is start small and simple and then work up to more and more complex conversions as you learn. Learn by doing, is basically my mantra for conversions.

Hope that helps, and I'd love to see your Commissar. My main army is Imperial Guard so I love a good hardass Commissar. I have one Vostroyan Commissar painted up but he rarely sees the tabletop sadly. May have to make a list with him later for giggles. We'll see.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

**TheManWithNoPlan**

Some beautiful math-hammer guys made a character balance formulae, giving a points cost to each special rule and attribute you add to a character, give it a Google search and you'll be on your way.

**Jimsolo**

Red__Thirst wrote:
I'll say I love the idea of building up characters to lead my forces. Though I never use 'named' special characters outside of the odd one-off game. The concept of using a named character as basis for your own conversion is fine, however it needs to be expressly stated to your opponent so they are aware, and the wargear on your conversion should match as closely as possible to the wargear on the actual named character's equipment list and original physical model. A big part of the game is WYSIWYG (what you see is what you've got).

An example I'll give is someone taking Commander Dante, the chapter master of the Blood Angels, and using Sanguinary Guard plastic bits to make a plastic version of him for gaming, as the old white metal sculpt (or God forbid the finecast version of the same model) can be a little top-heavy and difficult to use on anything but a perfectly flat surface (though the new 32mm bases help with tipping quite a bit). The conversion in question used a melta pistol and a single bladed axe (with the same hands even holding the weaponry compared to the original sculpt) a death mask, artificer armor, jump pack, frag & Krak grenades, etc etc. and was painted up in gold armor like Dante. In this example, I'd have zero issue seeing anyone have a problem with it.

That said, kitbash and build your own character! I'll give you an example if I can take a moment and show off my most recent completed character conversion:

Epistolary Librarian and Warden of the Watch, Brother Levi, Blackshield Ceded to the Deathwatch

A basic Space Marine Librarian, upgraded to Mastery Level 2, armed with Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Psychic Hood, and a Force Weapon (Axe, obviously). He doesn't have anything crazy as far as innate unique special rules, but he does use Biomancy as his primary psychic dicipline, so he usually has a few cool special rules that his psychic abilities grant him. Doing this for a Captain, or Chapter Master, and giving him some Relics and the like will help differentiate him and make him uniquely yours, as is the case with the Lord Commissar you mentioned there Colehkxix.

Have fun with it, and if you need help learning how to convert, fear not! There are a lot of people on here who can offer suggestions and guidance. The main point of advice I'll give you is start small and simple and then work up to more and more complex conversions as you learn. Learn by doing, is basically my mantra for conversions.

Hope that helps, and I'd love to see your Commissar. My main army is Imperial Guard so I love a good hardass Commissar. I have one Vostroyan Commissar painted up but he rarely sees the tabletop sadly. May have to make a list with him later for giggles. We'll see.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

Lol, the Ordo Hereticus would like a few words with Brother Levi...

**ProwlerPC**

The simple beauty of what I'm doing is that I'm simply making a custom char as allowed by the rules of the Codex and Supplement using options fully within the Big Mek's infosheet then simply naming him Orkimedes. The idea is as you say 'wargear on your conversion should match as closely as possible to the wargear on the actual named character's equipment list and original physical model' in that it sticks to the exact proper wargear of the model. Although quite expensive there's literally no reason he can be denied from a game without denying the entire codex entry, how I name him is immaterial. The other easy thing to this plan is that there simply is no Orkimedes char model or codex entry, he only exists in fluff as the one building tech for Ghazzy but I don't think anyone has ever seen him. He's the #1 target for the Imperial Assassins and I'd like to play a game where they have Orkimedes found and attempt to take him out. A definite conversion needed in my fluffly list of Goffs and Deathskulls led by Ghazzy, Mad Dok, Orkimedes, Snikrot, Zagstruk, Ugrak etc....

**Colehkxix**

ProwlerPC wrote:
Well, I plan on making an Orkimedes character while staying withing codex rules and not altering stats which would make him even tourney legal. Expensive as heck though and being fluffy there's a bit of redundancy in the melee selection I want to give him when modeling.

Big Mek with Mega Armour, Power Klaw, Kill Saw, Tellyport Blasta, Super Cybork Body, Mega Force Field, Mek's Tools, Stikkbombs

At 235 pts that would put him 10 pts higher then Ghazzy and just like Ghazzy he hasn't selected grots and squigs yet. 2+ Armour, 4+ Invuln, 5+ fnp, Eternal Warrior, Relentless but Bulky and Slow and Purposeful, Armourbane, and Tellyported abilites on top of the usual Ere We Go, Furious Charge and Mob Rule abilities. All attacks are from an AP2 weapon but he needs to be close. I envision an Ork that is more machine then Ork toiling in the shop with his saw and klaw arms as well as that tellyporta being used by him to move things around his shop conveniently but easily tweaked to be a weapon. Pretty much a Lord of War at this point.

Also I'm giving him the Deathskull colours. It's never been specified which klan he's originally from but just like Dok Grotsnik he has been with Ghazzy since the beginning. He and Dok Grot also seem to work well together churning out cyborks and deff dread squads like no others so I'm inclined to believe he came from the same Deathskull clan that was the first orks that began to follow Ghazzy after he woke up from the Doks tent and bashed in the Deathskull Warboss to take over.

Whoa! Nothing I can take could do a thing to that! And it's using all using options you can already take with your codex? Dang!

Red__Thirst wrote:
I'll say I love the idea of building up characters to lead my forces. Though I never use 'named' special characters outside of the odd one-off game. The concept of using a named character as basis for your own conversion is fine, however it needs to be expressly stated to your opponent so they are aware, and the wargear on your conversion should match as closely as possible to the wargear on the actual named character's equipment list and original physical model. A big part of the game is WYSIWYG (what you see is what you've got).

An example I'll give is someone taking Commander Dante, the chapter master of the Blood Angels, and using Sanguinary Guard plastic bits to make a plastic version of him for gaming, as the old white metal sculpt (or God forbid the finecast version of the same model) can be a little top-heavy and difficult to use on anything but a perfectly flat surface (though the new 32mm bases help with tipping quite a bit). The conversion in question used a melta pistol and a single bladed axe (with the same hands even holding the weaponry compared to the original sculpt) a death mask, artificer armor, jump pack, frag & Krak grenades, etc etc. and was painted up in gold armor like Dante. In this example, I'd have zero issue seeing anyone have a problem with it.

That said, kitbash and build your own character! I'll give you an example if I can take a moment and show off my most recent completed character conversion:

Epistolary Librarian and Warden of the Watch, Brother Levi, Blackshield Ceded to the Deathwatch

A basic Space Marine Librarian, upgraded to Mastery Level 2, armed with Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Psychic Hood, and a Force Weapon (Axe, obviously). He doesn't have anything crazy as far as innate unique special rules, but he does use Biomancy as his primary psychic dicipline, so he usually has a few cool special rules that his psychic abilities grant him. Doing this for a Captain, or Chapter Master, and giving him some Relics and the like will help differentiate him and make him uniquely yours, as is the case with the Lord Commissar you mentioned there Colehkxix.

Have fun with it, and if you need help learning how to convert, fear not! There are a lot of people on here who can offer suggestions and guidance. The main point of advice I'll give you is start small and simple and then work up to more and more complex conversions as you learn. Learn by doing, is basically my mantra for conversions.

Hope that helps, and I'd love to see your Commissar. My main army is Imperial Guard so I love a good hardass Commissar. I have one Vostroyan Commissar painted up but he rarely sees the tabletop sadly. May have to make a list with him later for giggles. We'll see.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

Thanks so much for the pictures! They look great. I haven't finished my Commissar yet, need to find time to paint him!

I'll try my best not to try anything drastic at first, and learn slowly, before I break something ahaha.

ProwlerPC wrote:
The simple beauty of what I'm doing is that I'm simply making a custom char as allowed by the rules of the Codex and Supplement using options fully within the Big Mek's infosheet then simply naming him Orkimedes. The idea is as you say 'wargear on your conversion should match as closely as possible to the wargear on the actual named character's equipment list and original physical model' in that it sticks to the exact proper wargear of the model. Although quite expensive there's literally no reason he can be denied from a game without denying the entire codex entry, how I name him is immaterial. The other easy thing to this plan is that there simply is no Orkimedes char model or codex entry, he only exists in fluff as the one building tech for Ghazzy but I don't think anyone has ever seen him. He's the #1 target for the Imperial Assassins and I'd like to play a game where they have Orkimedes found and attempt to take him out. A definite conversion needed in my fluffly list of Goffs and Deathskulls led by Ghazzy, Mad Dok, Orkimedes, Snikrot, Zagstruk, Ugrak etc....

I see! Unfortunately the options I have seem to be rather more limited and/or costs more than they're worth. However I like my character and will likely continue playing with him even though his points cost is so high.

I have hope that opponents will allow me to play him as Yarrick, and also buy him a plasma pistol, which is not a normal option for Yarrick, so that I can use the much better option whilst maintaining WYSIWYG. How would you feel about something like that?

**ProwlerPC**

Yarrick with a plasma pistol wouldn't bother me one bit. He already comes with the aura that is the Rule of Cool. Only human I seen who can slap on an Ork Power Klaw and it still workds for him (I made a post in a thread once breaking down my theory that his Klaw works because Ghazzy solidified Yarrick's reputation amongst the Orks as the most Orky of Ommies and a side effect of this Ork belief is that Yarrick can use Ork tech and it'll fully function). With that being said I'd even be more willing to let you use the Ork's Kustom Mega Slugga over the Plasma Pistol as it's the Orks version of a plasma pistol and say with confidence that it falls under the Rule of Cool.

Kustom Mega Slugga: 12" S8 AP2 Pistol Get's Hot

I think the cheapest way to get one of those pistols is the new released generic mek. The mek upgrades that come with Burnas and Lootas seems to come with the Mega Blasta and the MA Big Mek options in the MANz box is probably too expensive of a way to get that pistol.

**j31c3n**

Allowing Yarrick to take a plasma pistol would give him an extra attack. Plus, why would you want your fragile old wheezing man in an iron lung in CC in the first place? Storm bolter is a far superior choice.

**Red__Thirst**

Jimsolo wrote:
Red__Thirst wrote:
I'll say I love the idea of building up characters to lead my forces. Though I never use 'named' special characters outside of the odd one-off game. The concept of using a named character as basis for your own conversion is fine, however it needs to be expressly stated to your opponent so they are aware, and the wargear on your conversion should match as closely as possible to the wargear on the actual named character's equipment list and original physical model. A big part of the game is WYSIWYG (what you see is what you've got).

An example I'll give is someone taking Commander Dante, the chapter master of the Blood Angels, and using Sanguinary Guard plastic bits to make a plastic version of him for gaming, as the old white metal sculpt (or God forbid the finecast version of the same model) can be a little top-heavy and difficult to use on anything but a perfectly flat surface (though the new 32mm bases help with tipping quite a bit). The conversion in question used a melta pistol and a single bladed axe (with the same hands even holding the weaponry compared to the original sculpt) a death mask, artificer armor, jump pack, frag & Krak grenades, etc etc. and was painted up in gold armor like Dante. In this example, I'd have zero issue seeing anyone have a problem with it.

That said, kitbash and build your own character! I'll give you an example if I can take a moment and show off my most recent completed character conversion:

Epistolary Librarian and Warden of the Watch, Brother Levi, Blackshield Ceded to the Deathwatch

[Snipped Image]

[Snipped Image]

A basic Space Marine Librarian, upgraded to Mastery Level 2, armed with Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Psychic Hood, and a Force Weapon (Axe, obviously). He doesn't have anything crazy as far as innate unique special rules, but he does use Biomancy as his primary psychic dicipline, so he usually has a few cool special rules that his psychic abilities grant him. Doing this for a Captain, or Chapter Master, and giving him some Relics and the like will help differentiate him and make him uniquely yours, as is the case with the Lord Commissar you mentioned there Colehkxix.

Have fun with it, and if you need help learning how to convert, fear not! There are a lot of people on here who can offer suggestions and guidance. The main point of advice I'll give you is start small and simple and then work up to more and more complex conversions as you learn. Learn by doing, is basically my mantra for conversions.

Hope that helps, and I'd love to see your Commissar. My main army is Imperial Guard so I love a good hardass Commissar. I have one Vostroyan Commissar painted up but he rarely sees the tabletop sadly. May have to make a list with him later for giggles. We'll see.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

Lol, the Ordo Hereticus would like a few words with Brother Levi...

Porque??

He's a decorated member of the Deathwatch, who are known to use Librarians quite often in their service to the Ordo Xenos.

And anyone who wished to have a few words is welcome to, I wouldn't p!ss him off though.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

**ProwlerPC**

Yarrick has a PK. Giving him a pistol won't give him an etra atk because PKs are specialist weapons, you need a second PK to get the extra atk.

**j31c3n**

ProwlerPC wrote:
Yarrick has a PK. Giving him a pistol won't give him an etra atk because PKs are specialist weapons, you need a second PK to get the extra atk.

In that case, it's even worse! 12" S7 AP2 Gets Hot! Pistol vs 24" S4 AP5 Assault 2? Gimme dat storm bolter, baby.

**jasper76**

Most codices have enough wargear options and special artifacts for a generic HQ that you really can build your own character, and stay legal. The Tyranid codex even has a menu of non-artifact special rules you can pick from.

Not familiar enough with the new AM codex to know if it has similar options.

**vipoid**

Colehkxix wrote:

But that got me thinking: Has anyone here ever wanted to, or used their own made up characters in games? Modified an existing character in a codex with the options they want (like adding a plasma pistol to Yarrick) or perhaps gone even further and changed attributes and/or added special rules? With the opponent's permission of course.

I have wanted to do that, yes.

Mainly after making this guy for Dark Eldar:

Spoiler:

I can use him as either an Archon or Haemonculus, but neither really fit what I had in mind for him. I've been messing around with possible rules for him (based more on Mandrake stats/fluff and the old Decapitator), but haven't finalised anything yet.

The main problem I have is that, with the removal of virtually every SC (including the aforementioned Decapitator), I haven't got anything to easily base him on and modify. In addition, I'm stuck between wanting to make my own rules (because the current ones are so bland and uninteresting), whilst also not really wanting to make him too complicated (as I imagine my friends won't let me use him).

I also have this guy:

Spoiler:

However, I find that a tooled-up Destroyer Lord covers him pretty well. Not perfect, but enough that I don't feel the need to create a unique character for him.

**jasper76**

Sweet conversions dude

**commander dante**

This has got me thinking...
How about a Ruststalker Princeps Special Character?
He can take up to 4 Ruststalker Bodyguard that have +1T
His stats
WS6
BS4
S4
T4
W3
I5
A3
LD10
Wargear:
Conversion Field
2 Transonic Blades
Chordclaw
Dataspike
Special Mindscrambler Grenades that are also defensive

Special Rules:
Feel No Pain
Dunestrider
Doctrina Imperatives
Furious Charge
Zealot
IWND

Warlord Trait:
Reinforced Exoskeleton
May take an additional Warlord Trait

Fair???

Is an upgrade for a Sicaran Ruststalker Squad
Costs 85 points (WS+2=10,I+1=5,LD+1=5,W+1=10,T+1=10,Conversion field=10,chordclaw+dataspike=15,2 special rules=20,homebrew tax=10 (rounded up))
If a squad has him,they may purchase +1T for 10 points each
Only one of him can be used per army.
He may only take relics the DO NOT take up a weapon slot
Fair now??

**ALEXisAWESOME**

commander dante wrote:
This has got me thinking...
How about a Ruststalker Princeps Special Character?
He can take up to 4 Ruststalker Bodyguard that have +1T
His stats
WS6
BS4
S4
T4
I5
A3
LD10
Wargear:
Conversion Field
2 Transonic Blades
Chordclaw
Dataspike
Special Mindscrambler Grenades that are also defensive

Special Rules:
Feel No Pain
Dunestrider
Doctrina Imperatives
Furious Charge
Zealot
IWND

Warlord Trait:
Reinforced Exoskeleton
May take an additional Warlord Trait

Fair???

How could we possibly know if it is fair or not without a point cost? As a rule, any +1 to Ws, Bs, I or Ld cost an extra 5pts while +1 to wound, Str or T cost 10pts each. Most special rules are 10pts and price your special weapons by their closest in-rule equivalent, then add on an extra 10% as the ''Home-Brew Tax''. It's always better to overpoint then underpoint your units.

As far as creating my own characters go, the most I've ever done was ask if i could introduce the Great Harlequin fro the Valedor campaign book in as a HQ to choice for Harlequins with the same weapon access as the Troop Master, no one at my store has said no.

**BetrayTheWorld**

commander dante wrote:
This has got me thinking...
How about a Ruststalker Princeps Special Character?
He can take up to 4 Ruststalker Bodyguard that have +1T
His stats
WS6
BS4
S4
T4
I5
A3
LD10
Wargear:
Conversion Field
2 Transonic Blades
Chordclaw
Dataspike
Special Mindscrambler Grenades that are also defensive

Special Rules:
Feel No Pain
Dunestrider
Doctrina Imperatives
Furious Charge
Zealot
IWND

Warlord Trait:
Reinforced Exoskeleton
May take an additional Warlord Trait

Fair???

#1, you didn't list his wounds stat.

Would he be an HQ? If so, definitely not fair, as it would fundamentally alter the way the army could be fielded. Right now, you can't take a CAD or Allied Detachment with them because they have no HQs to fill the required slot. If they did, it would completely change that. That alone isn't what makes it a rather unbalanced character. That, paired with both a set warlord trait, an extra warlord trait, and an ability that buffs another unit is something that's unheard of anywhere else in 40k. Many characters have a set warlord trait. A few are able to get more than 1 warlord trait. None have both.

Still, I'd be ok with the warlord trait thing if he wasn't going to be an HQ. As an HQ, it just gives you options you weren't meant to have, so can get complicated. It's also a pretty buff combat character, and with the already high price of rust stalkers, I'd expect to see a decent price hike to his +1T Bodyguards, or (more likely) have the additional price built in to this special character's purchase price. With everything this character has, if he wasn't an HQ, I'd expect to see him priced somewhere between Mephiston and Kaldor Draigo.

**Melcavuk**

I've always leaned more on the side of converting models to run as your own versions of existing special characters. For the simple reason that players are far more accepting of a Yarrick who ooks different because the rules are published in a codex. Once you start making up your own characters/rules people can end up a bit apprehensive.

As an example:

Counts as Sammual for my Counts-as Ravenwing

**vipoid**

jasper76 wrote:
Sweet conversions dude

Thanks. :-)

Melcavuk wrote:
I've always leaned more on the side of converting models to run as your own versions of existing special characters. For the simple reason that players are far more accepting of a Yarrick who ooks different because the rules are published in a codex. Once you start making up your own characters/rules people can end up a bit apprehensive.

I know what you mean, but I'd also say that some races are likely to have an easier time with this than others.

e.g. it seems like SM players will have an easier time finding a suitable SC from amongst their 12 or so, then a DE player - who has a whopping 3 special characters to choose from.

**ProwlerPC**

j31c3n wrote:
In that case, it's even worse! 12" S7 AP2 Gets Hot! Pistol vs 24" S4 AP5 Assault 2? Gimme dat storm bolter, baby.

I'd let him use this below since it's also an Ork weapon like the PK that Yarrick normally uses. In other words to keep to fluff keep him using an Ork weapon.

ProwlerPC wrote:
Kustom Mega Slugga: 12" S8 AP2 Pistol Get's Hot

For antiinfantry yes the Storm Bolter is better but I think Yarrick needs to keep some ability to ignore Mega Armour's 2+ save since it's what Ghazzy wears. Generally Yarrick has an Ork PK that ignores the Mega Armour. Ork's version of a plasma is also S8 giving it a chance to glance even AV14 but also keeps him comfortably capable of ignoring Mega Armour. Fluffy and I think still effective.

**commander dante**

BetrayTheWorld wrote:
commander dante wrote:
This has got me thinking...
How about a Ruststalker Princeps Special Character?
He can take up to 4 Ruststalker Bodyguard that have +1T
His stats
WS6
BS4
S4
T4
I5
A3
LD10
Wargear:
Conversion Field
2 Transonic Blades
Chordclaw
Dataspike
Special Mindscrambler Grenades that are also defensive

Special Rules:
Feel No Pain
Dunestrider
Doctrina Imperatives
Furious Charge
Zealot
IWND

Warlord Trait:
Reinforced Exoskeleton
May take an additional Warlord Trait

Fair???

#1, you didn't list his wounds stat.

Would he be an HQ? If so, definitely not fair, as it would fundamentally alter the way the army could be fielded. Right now, you can't take a CAD or Allied Detachment with them because they have no HQs to fill the required slot. If they did, it would completely change that. That alone isn't what makes it a rather unbalanced character. That, paired with both a set warlord trait, an extra warlord trait, and an ability that buffs another unit is something that's unheard of anywhere else in 40k. Many characters have a set warlord trait. A few are able to get more than 1 warlord trait. None have both.

Still, I'd be ok with the warlord trait thing if he wasn't going to be an HQ. As an HQ, it just gives you options you weren't meant to have, so can get complicated. It's also a pretty buff combat character, and with the already high price of rust stalkers, I'd expect to see a decent price hike to his +1T Bodyguards, or (more likely) have the additional price built in to this special character's purchase price. With everything this character has, if he wasn't an HQ, I'd expect to see him priced somewhere between Mephiston and Kaldor Draigo.

How about an upgrade for a squad? (Like Telion?)

**DoomShakaLaka**

BetrayTheWorld wrote:
commander dante wrote:
This has got me thinking...
How about a Ruststalker Princeps Special Character?
He can take up to 4 Ruststalker Bodyguard that have +1T
His stats
WS6
BS4
S4
T4
I5
A3
LD10
Wargear:
Conversion Field
2 Transonic Blades
Chordclaw
Dataspike
Special Mindscrambler Grenades that are also defensive

Special Rules:
Feel No Pain
Dunestrider
Doctrina Imperatives
Furious Charge
Zealot
IWND

Warlord Trait:
Reinforced Exoskeleton
May take an additional Warlord Trait

Fair???

#1, you didn't list his wounds stat.

Would he be an HQ? If so, definitely not fair, as it would fundamentally alter the way the army could be fielded. Right now, you can't take a CAD or Allied Detachment with them because they have no HQs to fill the required slot. If they did, it would completely change that. That alone isn't what makes it a rather unbalanced character. That, paired with both a set warlord trait, an extra warlord trait, and an ability that buffs another unit is something that's unheard of anywhere else in 40k. Many characters have a set warlord trait. A few are able to get more than 1 warlord trait. None have both.

Still, I'd be ok with the warlord trait thing if he wasn't going to be an HQ. As an HQ, it just gives you options you weren't meant to have, so can get complicated. It's also a pretty buff combat character, and with the already high price of rust stalkers, I'd expect to see a decent price hike to his +1T Bodyguards, or (more likely) have the additional price built in to this special character's purchase price. With everything this character has, if he wasn't an HQ, I'd expect to see him priced somewhere between Mephiston and Kaldor Draigo.

Dont forget that any character can be your warlord in 7th. So yes it cam still have a warlord trait, and be an elite/FA slot.

**commander dante**

Is an upgrade for a Sicaran Ruststalker Squad
Replaces the Ruststalker princeps
Costs 85 points (WS+2=10,I+1=5,LD+1=5,W+1=10,T+1=10,Conversion field=10,chordclaw+dataspike=15,2 special rules=20,homebrew tax=10 (rounded up))
If a squad has him,they may purchase +1T for 10 points each
Only one of him can be used per army.
He may only take relics the DO NOT take up a weapon slot
Fair now??

Automatically Appended Next Post:
A Bog Standard Squad with Him is 245
A +1T squad is 285
Pretty pricey but the upgrades seem sound
(Could also be part of a 500 point game if you take 2 5 man squads of skitarii vanguard)

**BetrayTheWorld**

commander dante wrote:

Is an upgrade for a Sicaran Ruststalker Squad
Replaces the Ruststalker princeps
Costs 85 points (WS+2=10,I+1=5,LD+1=5,W+1=10,T+1=10,Conversion field=10,chordclaw+dataspike=15,2 special rules=20,homebrew tax=10 (rounded up))
If a squad has him,they may purchase +1T for 10 points each
Only one of him can be used per army.
He may only take relics the DO NOT take up a weapon slot
Fair now??

Not fair at that points cost. Not if he gets 2 warlord traits, 1 of which is automatic eternal warrior. Also, the points costs that guy listed earlier doesn't take into account what you're putting it on, and so isn't applicable in every case.. 10 points for every +1T? I could turn an archon into a T10 character with a 2++ invuln save and a poisoned power weapon for 185 points. Or, imagine taking Lelith Hesperax's basic rules, but adding +2S and +3T to her. That'd only make her cost 200, and you'd have a S5/T6 character with a 3++ and 7+ attacks on the charge that ignore armor. Rerolls both to hit and to wound in challenges, and unlike the MC who's stats she now has, can be hidden in units with her IC rule. She'd put every Pheonix Lord in the Eldar codex to shame, and she'd be cheaper than most of them.

**commander dante**

BetrayTheWorld wrote:
commander dante wrote:

Is an upgrade for a Sicaran Ruststalker Squad
Replaces the Ruststalker princeps
Costs 85 points (WS+2=10,I+1=5,LD+1=5,W+1=10,T+1=10,Conversion field=10,chordclaw+dataspike=15,2 special rules=20,homebrew tax=10 (rounded up))
If a squad has him,they may purchase +1T for 10 points each
Only one of him can be used per army.
He may only take relics the DO NOT take up a weapon slot
Fair now??

Not fair at that points cost. Not if he gets 2 warlord traits, 1 of which is automatic eternal warrior. Also, the points costs that guy listed earlier doesn't take into account what you're putting it on, and so isn't applicable in every case.. 10 points for every +1T? I could turn an archon into a T10 character with a 2++ invuln save and a poisoned power weapon for 185 points. Or, imagine taking Lelith Hesperax's basic rules, but adding +2S and +3T to her. That'd only make her cost 200, and you'd have a S5/T6 character with a 3++ and 7+ attacks on the charge that ignore armor. Rerolls both to hit and to wound in challenges, and unlike the MC who's stats she now has, can be hidden in units with her IC rule. She'd put every Pheonix Lord in the Eldar codex to shame, and she'd be cheaper than most of them.

Hmm
How about removing the 2nd warlord trait
And with the table,if you go past +2 it quaduples each time (+3=40,+4 is 160 ect..) just to stop super cheap deathstars from happening

**vipoid**

One thing I would be careful if is that extra toughness is something of triple-modifier on these models.

- It makes them harder to wound.
- It allows them to take FNP saves against more weapons.
- It makes them harder to ID (being multi-wound models).

(I know your Warlord Trait gives EW, but the extra toughness is still useful against ID if he isn't your warlord.)

I think it's worth more than just 10pts.