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the only ones who are keeping this project alive and Palladium alive (or the illusion it is alive) now are those who fail to do anything.

I haven't seen a Robotech video scroll across my youtube subscriptions or recommendations in a long while. I assume Dave/gamerongames had that melt down and managed to annoy everyone other than palladium a while back. The guy who did the open house video that showed the most awesomest demo video EvAR! hasn't to my knowledge covered the game since. The was a "robotech guy" who did terrain videos and some unboxings but I haven't seen anything there either. The last thing I saw that was new was a battlereport from an Australian 40k group (that I follow for 40k Horus Heresy game videos) a few months back. Obviously the tourny scene was still born given no tourney at gencon and failed tournies at the open house and adepticon. Other than Jamyz wiki (if he still has that.. haven't checked for months), are there any websites besides the facebook group(s) that focus on robotech? I'm trying to see what the overall level of engagement is outside of dakka (my usual and preferred place to check) and the palladium forums (which tend to be dead except for spurts of complaining).

edit: I forgot to mention that the two threads I initially linked in my blog haven't been updated since last 6-10 months either last I checked.

that pretty much covers it.

I'm thinking split the top/back mounted boosters into 2 parts, front and back. According to the source material the front part of the boosters are modular and can support at least 3 different load-outs.

1. Micro-Missile Launcher (Standard)
2. Twin Particle Cannons (Strike)
3. Additional Fuel (Trainer & Elint Seeker? Looking at the art for those, it looks like entirely different booster to me)

Images from the Macross Mecha Manual for reference:

Strike VF-1S with Micro Missile Launcher and Particle Cannon


Super VT-1D Trainer with additional fuel


That said it'd be easy enough to just cast/print alternate boosters in one piece. I guess they're also not exactly Robotech, but given how much support PB has given, RRT is dead and we all might as well take it in our own preferred directions.

Asterios wrote:

the boosters are in 2 parts (one booster and one booster on both arms and legs), they are only attached like in a sprue which can be cut off. the leg pieces will be trickier and in 2 pieces for each leg I think, I'm doing them like the "Jetfire" transformer toy.

or did you mean split each booster? who do you think I am Palladium ?

well right now my other service expired so i'm stuck tinkering with Tinkercad (free service) which is not very viable so my creations are limited and time consuming.

my other service I could stretch mold and such, tinkercad is basic shape use.

Okay, so post-splitting is usually obnoxious, but there's a lot to break down, so here we go! (people feel free to add on here, but this is from memory and with my own bias, I'm giving it as I see it, not looking to argue particular minutia, I'm looking at you Rick);

 warboss wrote:
So, if Mike stopped working on the bucket brigade... who is left? WRRD? What about the guy (iirc Bad Syntax/Eric Smith) who paid $5,000 and posted those unboxing pics/videos from gencon? Is he still active (either on KS, the palladium forums, or the facebook group?

I find Eric Smith utterly intolerable, and as such have him blocked on FB. My occasional glances through Mike's page are much more pleasant that way. I believe I've seen what appears to be people chatting/bickering with him, but can't say with certainty how much he's around on Mike's page. Far as I know he's never around on either PB's FB or Forums. Frankly, after his "IP LAW IS THE DEVEL!" explosion, I stopped taking him remotely seriously.

From a quick look at the KS comments, Jaymz and Jorel don't seem keen but both fluctuate wildly with their love of Palladium and go back for regularly scheduled beatings but isn't Jaymz the guy who set up the wiki a year or two back?

Jaymz is indeed the gent who set up the wiki. To the best of my knowledge, he has become disillusioned with PB's shenanigans once more, given up his Megaversal Ambassadorship, and stated that someone else is welcome to maintain the Wiki, he will do so until that happens or he gets bored. That is said without judgement or sarcasm; I hold nothing against Jaymz and find it regretable that one of the few people really on top of supporting this game's fanbase is stepping back in frustration.

They let go/fired/separated/whatever the guy who was supposed to be the "robotech" guy a while back and shoehorned in a pencil sketch artist to cover his spot... but we never hear/heard from either for the most part.

Yeah, we never heard from the last guy much (Jeff?) or the new guy (Charles?). Far as I know it's generally Wayne and Kevin doing updates/weekly propaganda. Either of them (during their tenure) have basically been Special Guest Appearances.

What about the vulgar canadian taxi driver (alex clark? or was it someone else?) who made it his personal mission to insult everyone expressing concern over a year ago when the project had quick obviously struck an iceberg.

Alex Clark or Clarke is indeed some vulgar Canadian who loves him some Battletech and spent a lot of time giving a lot of people gak over any criticism whatsoever. Lately he's been lobbing mockery at PB on Mike's page, so I guess it's alright now. As long as HE thinks it is, of course (and deviation from how much or little scorn is lobbed still gets image memes and random bullgak).

The taxi/limo guy was a guy named Duncan. Other than 1 comment during The Great Scale Debate, he's been silent since receiving his stuff in 2014.

The other obnoxious guy was Joshua Russell, one of the "omg call the whaaaaambulance" types who bought up a bunch of pledges and apparently resold them for a tidy profit on ebay. Which was hilarious because he threw a tantrum that would've embarrassed a 6 year old when FFP told him to take a hike when he wanted to buy a bunch of Shadows of Brimstone stuff with his mighty $1 placeholder pledge. Saw him playing at one of their events at Gencon, actually. Kind of a donkey cave in real life too.

Is it pretty much just Red Duke keeping the flames of excitement alive and NMI with his razor sharp knowledge of the game mechanics working on further upgrades? Obviously in addition to Kevin, Wayne, and Alex of course.

I'm trying to remember the other names that don't generally post on dakka in the community back before wave 1, whether good or bad.

Maybe it's just me, but NMI's hand seems to have been considerably less iron clad of late. No idea if that's a policy change, or he just grew bored of it, or what.

It is funny looking over the names that have come and gone and those that have stuck around. I wonder if we'll still be chattering away in a year when they continue to struggle to figure out where all those dastardly sculpts went, or in two years when the resin masters come in and it's just playdough someone left in the sun for too long? Who will have gotten bored, who will be back, what new names will join in the shenanigans?

 Forar wrote:
The taxi/limo guy was a guy named Duncan. Other than 1 comment during The Great Scale Debate, he's been silent since receiving his stuff in 2014.

maybe he saw his gak and wonder why he defended it

 Forar wrote:
Cross posted from KS Comments;

Wow. Remember when we were talking about how it would probably take a couple of spectacular fails for KS to get some attention?

Apparently one is in the process of blowing up now; http://www.craveonline.com/design/911949-buccaneer-1-5-million-record-breaking-kickstarter-project-leaving-backers-empty-handed

According to the article, ~60% of backers have not yet received the product they're due (in this case, a 3D printer) and the company is saying they are looking into further funding to finish, followed by another claim that they're scrapping the current tech and 'going back to basics' (which is exactly what gives me profound faith in a project; out of money AND starting over!)

Note: yes, this is not an apples to apples comparison. I'm merely commenting on a financially large and successful campaign seeming to be in significant trouble. Which is the kind of thing that starts getting people talking about the uncomfortable truths with minimal backer protection and creators offering things they can't make good on (be it product quantity, product quality, both, time frame, etc).

I feel bad for the backers who are left in limbo, but until people are spurred into action, I suspect we won't see much change.

This could be just the impetuous that was needed.

I backed this and was one of the few who received my printer; probably because it's located IN my country so it's a lot easier for me to sue them. It's decent tech, pretty easy to use but I feel the company had too much ambition at the start. They started trying to get certification very aggressively so they could push their printers to massretail, which delayed their process and probably spent a fair amt of money trying to get them.

Thanks for the update/corrections, Forar. To answer your question, I suspect it'll be the same folks talking about robotech (both here, on KS, and the PB forums) in a year that have been for the past few months. At this point, the lookiloos and casual thread followers have all but disappeared from the discussion.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Sorry about the confusion, but this being a GW-centric site, I figured the Perrys were common knowledge. The guy does good work, despite the loss of use of his then-dominant hand.

MIKH and Jody are both notorious for lateness. For example: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/491317.page

The devil you know, vs the devil you don't.

Well, given that the devil we know is PB, and the massive amount of 'Nothing' we've been getting from them over the last 6+ months, they are considerably into negative equity on trust so far as I am concerned. Given that you say the others are notorious for lateness, how late is this campaign again?

If I remember correctly, we are coming up on 2 years on from the initial KS fulfillment date. PB may think it's OK as they have sent something to every backer, but my pledge remains outstanding. I pledged for "A New Dawn" and have only received one of my add-ons so far. We are also already seeing other members here showcasing their own efforts at producing models PB have not been producing yet - mainly invid, it's true - and their efforts far surpass PB's on everything not yet received! I don't understand how anyone can say that PB will deliver given enough time. Options at this point seem to be either forget all about it [maybe one day your package will come, but don't hold your breath.] or sue them and try and get your money back.

On the other hand, I have also pledged on the "Thunderbirds 1965" campaign to produce 3 complete new episodes based on the old vinyls. In the MONTH since that campaign ended, the first episode has been completed and a work print has been screened. Ok, there is some post-production work still to do on that episode, and the other two episodes and stretch goals to produce, but they are going to be able to complete with a much smaller margin of over-run than PB was capable of ending up with for WAVE 1!

So, as far as I am concerned, PB have stolen my money. I don't believe I will ever get anything more for what I have paid for, the campaign has failed in almost every detail except PB raised the money they wanted. If any people manage to sue them and get money back, it will only reduce my chances even further. So I have had to work a weekend to make up the shortfall (replace that money so I can then spend it on something I CAN get!) and have given up on the campaign.

If I EVER get anything further from PB, it's be a shock. I certainly don't intend on getting anything that will mean more money ends up in their hands, so I will start combing the sales and E-Bay for the single set of VF models I would want [also not prepared to pay the UK RRP for these things new, never have been.]

I guess that's the difference when a projects creators are actually enthusiastic about what they are producing.

As for enthusiasm, Palladium is looking into and exploring some new options with regard to giving a gak and reduced motivation, while working on other areas of anything but wave 2.

 warboss wrote:
Thanks for the update/corrections, Forar. To answer your question, I suspect it'll be the same folks talking about robotech (both here, on KS, and the PB forums) in a year that have been for the past few months. At this point, the lookiloos and casual thread followers have all but disappeared from the discussion.

Still here. Just nothing new to add to the mix.

Aside: I was in that Buccaneer KS. I was lucky; I bailed earlier and bought another 3D printer rather than wait endlessly for their round-the-block approach. To be fair to them, I bailed because what they eventually offered did not meet my needs, and they updated well enough during the design/ build/ certification process. It was particularly eye-opening on how many things can screw up during the certification process, and that I believe was one of the things that nailed them flat down for too long.

Do you guys think PB is hoping we just plain give-up on this wave 2 of the KS?

The logical result is we walk away, never looking back.
They may be hoping for the illogical result of us saying "oh well" and buying more of their stuff (but really? really?).

Do they think they can entice a new batch of suckers to buy their stuff? With what??

Last option is they are "diligently" working on it to the usual PB timeline that could possibly last a decade or more.
Which would require the patience of the saints or the walking away option.

I will update my address with them and who knows, I may get some surprise in my late 50's.

Do you really see any other possibility whatsoever?

They couldn't finish it when they had a bunch of cash and the ability to get some savings by doing it all on top of each other.

Every sign has pointed to them being out of money since...I'll be generous and say February, even though the last real progress was see...hell, I don't remember when at this point.

PB has always been a shoestring company. They aren't suddenly going to sell one of Kevin's Masterpieces at Sotheby's and use that money to fund another wave.

They will never have the money to complete it. The sooner they admit to it the more angry people they'll have. The longer they can put off admitting it, the more people will just chalk it up as a loss and move on.

It's really their only option, being both incompetent and weaselly.

And until they do meet their KS obligations, the only thing we can do as backers is to be diligent in telling others of the truth of how they haven't fulfilled their promises despite a grace period of two extra years and how they really treat backers through actions which doesn't jive with their empty words.

I hate rewarding bad behavior but walking away is the only way to go (for me) and I find little to disagree with you there Merijeek.

I got a few digs in with the BBB and my government (who knows what they are doing) so at least something is on record, not much publically except on the KS page.

They will absolutely be able to find more suckers. This kickstarter is itself an example of a new crop of suckers being made. Pallladium had a bad rep and business problems that should have been a red flag for all of us.

We are the new suckers, and if we just walk away there will be more made when they wait 5 years for memories to dull and do an indiegogo campaign for rift rpg tactics. Not saying it is illogical to walk away, but it is how con artists are able to operate for so long unnoticed.

I put in my money to slap around HG for Robotech Academy, and I'll be happy to do it on Simbieda's next scam.

I've long said that I'll be backing any future Palladium crowdfunding for $1.00 to make sure I inform folks about the true character of the company they're going to be dealing with and what to actually expect instead of the soon to be broken promises.

HG got what they wanted from that ks though (a new movie license). They just wanted to show interest in the property.

 n815e wrote:
HG got what they wanted from that ks though (a new movie license). They just wanted to show interest in the property.

You think movie licenses move so quickly that the KS had any influence of any kind on that? Not a chance in hell.

this is what Kevin looked like when he screwed over 5K plus backers:

Yeah, there was another one floating around IIRC during the sham gencon vote with a different pic and the "achievement unlocked: screwing over 5,000 backers simultaneously" or somesuch.

Yes it's this one.

Then there's this one.

@Cypher: Yup, that's the pic I remembered.

The comment chatter about a potential statute of limitations is interesting, it highlights directly the matter that has come up time and again whenever people go off on a 'omg be patient for years, it's been decades what's another 1/2/3/5+ years?' rant.

If there is an applicable SoL, and it's ticking away, how long before people are allowed to pursue what legal avenues exist? Assuming it's at least 5 years, we're almost half way there.

I suppose this is more of a meta commentary, but people have definitely popped up to decry the usual threats of litigation, but it's not all empty, it's not all hot air, how long is a company allowed to faff about before it's reasonable to pursue other avenues of recourse?

More of a rhetorical question than one we need to answer directly. I'm sure some will say "never", or "omg shut up", but think about it; if it's X years, and PB crosses that threshold to the point they cannot be held responsible any longer in a court of law, does anyone really think they'll continue to dutifully buckle down and spend untold thousands of dollars across years and years to deliver on something they no longer have to?

Food for thought I guess.

I mean, until Rick's Legal Suplex crits them for "everything they're worth plus 10%" in pain and suffering. :-P

Man, that one picture of Simbieda looks like something from a 1980's PSA about 'Stranger Danger'.

 Forar wrote:

I mean, until Rick's Legal Suplex crits them for "everything they're worth plus 10%" in pain and suffering. :-P

ahh if only, only way to do that is if the FTC steps in or such, as to when my issue goes to court, i'm not getting much myself (worse case scenario, just what PB owes me, best case scenario full refund and up to $1200 in damages according to my attorney), my attorney on the other hand will make a nice tidy sum.