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palaeomerus wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Killionaire wrote:
Robotech's been so popular in my area, that you could say people have been selling their box sets for 20 dollars. And failing to find buyers.

So it's actually worth less than a Sedition Wars boxed set? Awesome. Never thought I'd see that.

In wondering if I should offer such a trade, I'm kinda thinking I'd be ripping myself off, because someone would probably take SedWars just for the bases...

Um...if you had trouble putting SedWars together then you want nothing whatsever to do with what's in the Robotech RPG Tactics box.

Lots of tiny, fragile. split pieces on fat 1967 type car-model runners.

And for all that work you get something kind of mushy detailed with seams for you to putty and sand.

And the directions included suck and are wrong about a couple of things.

Dude, did you even read what I wrote? Nowhere did I say that I had trouble putting SedWars together. Although I will say that SedWars was a PITA because restic is just awful to clean. And a number of the parts were warped (Grendlr, female rifles). The RRT minis were easier to build:

Those are mine, and they came together just fine, with regular small scale modeling techniques.

Sure, the detail could have been shallower and more scale, and the model splits and bitz could have been better, but it's OK for my purposes.

I built mine without instructions. Not that hard if you know what the model should look like. Or have built models for 30-40 years.



What I did say was that I was surprised that the SedWars box had a higher dollar value than the RRT box. That's all you should have gotten from my comment.

I'd say any plastic miniature is a dream to put together compared to the garbage sprue designs that [MOD EDIT - Pleas don't try to work around the expletive filter - thanks! Alpharius] Kevin pawned on us.

Not to backseat mod, but it's generally frowned upon to avoid the profanity filter.

Hence the "gak/feth/donkey cave" shenanigans. :-P

Though I do catch myself nearly using Gak and Feth in non-Dakka places.

With Frak and Frell coming out now and then, It's only a matter of time...

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

palaeomerus wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Killionaire wrote:
Robotech's been so popular in my area, that you could say people have been selling their box sets for 20 dollars. And failing to find buyers.

So it's actually worth less than a Sedition Wars boxed set? Awesome. Never thought I'd see that.

In wondering if I should offer such a trade, I'm kinda thinking I'd be ripping myself off, because someone would probably take SedWars just for the bases...

Um...if you had trouble putting SedWars together then you want nothing whatsever to do with what's in the Robotech RPG Tactics box.

Lots of tiny, fragile. split pieces on fat 1967 type car-model runners.

And for all that work you get something kind of mushy detailed with seams for you to putty and sand.

And the directions included suck and are wrong about a couple of things.

Dude, did you even read what I wrote? Nowhere did I say that I had trouble putting SedWars together. Although I will say that SedWars was a PITA because restic is just awful to clean. And a number of the parts were warped (Grendlr, female rifles). The RRT minis were easier to build:

Those are mine, and they came together just fine, with regular small scale modeling techniques.

Sure, the detail could have been shallower and more scale, and the model splits and bitz could have been better, but it's OK for my purposes.

I built mine without instructions. Not that hard if you know what the model should look like. Or have built models for 30-40 years.



What I did say was that I was surprised that the SedWars box had a higher dollar value than the RRT box. That's all you should have gotten from my comment.

Never mind. Sorry I engaged you at all. Won't happen again.

Yep, lack of information can make us all pretty grumpy.
I would suggest if you feel a need to express yourself more completely, the kickstarter page will do.
All we got is the consistent self satisfied postings from the PB website and spam mail from them if you have filtered it by now.

I was wondering, other than making a 3D model and printing your own: anyone else make a Super-VT or Armored-VT?
I have to get off my lazy butt and see if I can scratch build some add-ons (or on top of) the models we have... possibly mold-up the component parts for my personal use.
It is bothering me that this game will be unfinished.
The Gnerl is the one model where I look at it and draw a blank.

Ah well, guess I can look forward to Anime North and decide if I really want to say anything or not.

If I really cared to play, I'm lucky I have some plastic 3rd edition BT minis I can pull in to use, as well as a matchbox monster and a plastic armored valkerie from an old battletech kit (though I don't know what happened to the marauder and plastic "Leopard Dropship" it also came with).

I've also metioned it earlier, but the gashapon models (with the exception of Regults, for some bizarre reason) are fairly cheap upscale replacements for the incomplete mess we got from PB.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Or have built models for 30-40 years"

That shouldn't be something said when dealing with a STARTER set. Personally, I found the UEDF models to be a pain in the neck and nowhere near enjoyable to cut out, construct or paint.

I'd have preferred the veritechs and destroids in the starter to be 5 unique monopose figs (so five veritechs that only go together one way for each fig) to give them more animated styling as well as likely significantly easier assembly (see the 40k Vengeance starter set for examples of such models). I'm fine though with the zentraedi overall in terms of both parts and complexity. There are some issues with the officer and recon pod but those are obviously in the tiny minority in terms of model count in the box.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

I built mine without instructions. Not that hard if you know what the model should look like. Or have built models for 30-40 years.

Well as for me I can honestly say that the UEDF forces in the RRT are the hardest models(notice I didn't say minis) I have ever assembled and I have most likely assembled more models and as long if not longer then you have and thats including RRT models.

 Stormonu wrote:
"Or have built models for 30-40 years"

That shouldn't be something said when dealing with a STARTER set. Personally, I found the UEDF models to be a pain in the neck and nowhere near enjoyable to cut out, construct or paint.

I think RRT minis would be fine for someone with 5 years scale model experience. Maybe as little as 3 years, if they'd been working toward IPMS competition. But 10 years is probably ideal. Right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asterios wrote:
Well as for me I can honestly say that the UEDF forces in the RRT are the hardest models(notice I didn't say minis) I have ever assembled and I have most likely assembled more models and as long if not longer then you have and thats including RRT models.

The UEDF Destroids were pretty easy. The Valks had some wierd clearances with how the arms were to go into the bodies, esp. Gerwalk. Not labeling the arm pairings was Not Good.

Rick, did you ever find that industry standard definition of what constitutes a model versus a miniature?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Asterios wrote:
Well as for me I can honestly say that the UEDF forces in the RRT are the hardest models(notice I didn't say minis) I have ever assembled and I have most likely assembled more models and as long if not longer then you have and thats including RRT models.

The UEDF Destroids were pretty easy. The Valks had some wierd clearances with how the arms were to go into the bodies, esp. Gerwalk. Not labeling the arm pairings was Not Good.

the Guardian mode was the worst of the lot, especially if you wanted to have both arms holding the gun, and the size of the pieces makes it even more fun.

 n815e wrote:
Rick, did you ever find that industry standard definition of what constitutes a model versus a miniature?

its a personal standard if I can assemble it without thinking too much about it, its a mini, this includes all Sed. wars, RRT Pods(even Glaug and scout and recovery) and 40K and all others. unfortunately this does not include RRT UEDF forces.

"Guardian"? WTF are you talking about? Gerwalk?

Anyhow, getting the Gerwalk to hold it's GU-11 in both hands was almost as much fun as getting a 3E metal pack/gun/arm SM Devastator together without any bad seams/joints...

palaeomerus wrote:
It's sad. I wish that whoever owns the Macross IP would talk to FFG about doing a new major project, and rescind prior licenses for damage to the brand along with a "here's a nickel for your trouble kid" payment and get us some games and anime up in the USA finally.

"Harmony Gold's official stance is that the Japanese court case has no bearing on them nor their Macross distribution rights. Moreover, neither Big West nor Tatsunoko have challenged Harmony Gold's Macross trademark claim in the U.S., and so it remains in place. Basically, this trademark effectively prevents any other company from purchasing the international distribution rights to any Macross product—be that anime, game, or merchandise—without inviting a lawsuit."

Article's from 2013. Anything more recent? Or why Big West or Taktsunoko haven't challenged HG?

http://kotaku.com/5990702/why-you-havent-seen-any-new-macross-in-the-west-for-nearly-15-years

I'm pretty sure it was "Guardian" in the novels, that's what I usually call it as well, and find "Gerwalk" kind of... dumb.

Doesn't help that there's like eight names for everything between the various series, movies, novels, comics, etc.

ced1106 wrote:

palaeomerus wrote:
It's sad. I wish that whoever owns the Macross IP would talk to FFG about doing a new major project, and rescind prior licenses for damage to the brand along with a "here's a nickel for your trouble kid" payment and get us some games and anime up in the USA finally.

"Harmony Gold's official stance is that the Japanese court case has no bearing on them nor their Macross distribution rights. Moreover, neither Big West nor Tatsunoko have challenged Harmony Gold's Macross trademark claim in the U.S., and so it remains in place. Basically, this trademark effectively prevents any other company from purchasing the international distribution rights to any Macross product—be that anime, game, or merchandise—without inviting a lawsuit."

Article's from 2013. Anything more recent? Or why Big West or Taktsunoko haven't challenged HG?

http://kotaku.com/5990702/why-you-havent-seen-any-new-macross-in-the-west-for-nearly-15-years

thing of it is, any company in the US can challenge it, they most likely will win, problem is they do not deem it cost effective with all the Legal fees to do such on a market that has been killed by HG by their inadequate handling of the IP.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
"Guardian"? WTF are you talking about? Gerwalk?

Anyhow, getting the Gerwalk to hold it's GU-11 in both hands was almost as much fun as getting a 3E metal pack/gun/arm SM Devastator together without any bad seams/joints...

I've always referred to them as Guardians since its better then Gerwalk. which sounds like a name for the Pods, it sounds like a gawky 2 legged walker.

I can do Devastators in my sleep but after assembling 16 squads of them no wonder.

But, but, "Gerwalk" is the official name for the mode! Arrgh!
____

Wait, you assembled 64 of the old SM Devastators with the metal (not plastic!) weapons? Did you pin them?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
But, but, "Gerwalk" is the official name for the mode! Arrgh!

maybe for Macross, but i never got into the Macross Anime, its only been Robotech for me.

Yet another thing I'll blame HG and Kevin for!

Asterios wrote:

ced1106 wrote:

palaeomerus wrote:
It's sad. I wish that whoever owns the Macross IP would talk to FFG about doing a new major project, and rescind prior licenses for damage to the brand along with a "here's a nickel for your trouble kid" payment and get us some games and anime up in the USA finally.

"Harmony Gold's official stance is that the Japanese court case has no bearing on them nor their Macross distribution rights. Moreover, neither Big West nor Tatsunoko have challenged Harmony Gold's Macross trademark claim in the U.S., and so it remains in place. Basically, this trademark effectively prevents any other company from purchasing the international distribution rights to any Macross product—be that anime, game, or merchandise—without inviting a lawsuit."

Article's from 2013. Anything more recent? Or why Big West or Taktsunoko haven't challenged HG?

http://kotaku.com/5990702/why-you-havent-seen-any-new-macross-in-the-west-for-nearly-15-years

thing of it is, any company in the US can challenge it, they most likely will win, problem is they do not deem it cost effective with all the Legal fees to do such on a market that has been killed by HG by their inadequate handling of the IP.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
"Guardian"? WTF are you talking about? Gerwalk?

Anyhow, getting the Gerwalk to hold it's GU-11 in both hands was almost as much fun as getting a 3E metal pack/gun/arm SM Devastator together without any bad seams/joints...

I've always referred to them as Guardians since its better then Gerwalk. which sounds like a name for the Pods, it sounds like a gawky 2 legged walker.

I can do Devastators in my sleep but after assembling 16 squads of them no wonder.

Hasbro apparently roundly defeated Harmony Gold when making the GI Joe/Transformers crossover Jetfire in 2013. So, it looks like Harmony Gold is standing on quicksand if someone were to properly go after them and the rights.

http://www.animeherald.com/2013/10/18/harmony-gold-v-hasbro-transformers-case-dismissed/

 Talizvar wrote:
Yep, lack of information can make us all pretty grumpy.
I would suggest if you feel a need to express yourself more completely, the kickstarter page will do.
All we got is the consistent self satisfied postings from the PB website and spam mail from them if you have filtered it by now.

I was wondering, other than making a 3D model and printing your own: anyone else make a Super-VT or Armored-VT?
I have to get off my lazy butt and see if I can scratch build some add-ons (or on top of) the models we have... possibly mold-up the component parts for my personal use.
It is bothering me that this game will be unfinished.
The Gnerl is the one model where I look at it and draw a blank.

Ah well, guess I can look forward to Anime North and decide if I really want to say anything or not.

I found a source of Gnerls. They are just really costly at $15 each!

I think someone has some Armored done up.

Someone also did up some parts to make some supers with. I think they were going to send me some of those in the mail.

 Stormonu wrote:

Hasbro apparently roundly defeated Harmony Gold when making the GI Joe/Transformers crossover Jetfire in 2013. So, it looks like Harmony Gold is standing on quicksand if someone were to properly go after them and the rights.

http://www.animeherald.com/2013/10/18/harmony-gold-v-hasbro-transformers-case-dismissed/

Probably. But who is going to fight for an IP that has been driven into the ground over and over?

Some of us just got a disappointing update from another anime robot ks tonight. It's not good news but I find the result and the communication to be acceptable but obviously not optimal.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/heavygearblitz/heavy-gear-blitz-war-for-terra-nova-starter-set/posts/1471557

I *wish* we had gotten something like this last summer instead of the stupid history of everything but nothing useful updates or even two years ago with the gencon first debacle and subsequent sham vote.

Assuming that everything the Pod says is true, backers will get 90% of the different sculpts and total models that they pledged for.

That's clearly better than the 50% or so that PB is batting, but no, not ideal.

I guess the Pod has the benefit of people looking at PB's gakshow and saying, well, at least it's not fething Robotech...

 Forar wrote:
I'm pretty sure it was "Guardian" in the novels, that's what I usually call it as well, and find "Gerwalk" kind of... dumb.

Doesn't help that there's like eight names for everything between the various series, movies, novels, comics, etc.

Gerwalk is a Macross term, yes ("Ground Effective Reinforcement of Winged Armament with Locomotive Knee-Joint").

Guardian is what they called the mode in Robotech. Or at least, what they did. They seem to have changed most names to the Macross ones, over time.

warboss wrote:Some of us just got a disappointing update from another anime robot ks tonight. It's not good news but I find the result and the communication to be acceptable but obviously not optimal.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/heavygearblitz/heavy-gear-blitz-war-for-terra-nova-starter-set/posts/1471557

I *wish* we had gotten something like this last summer instead of the stupid history of everything but nothing useful updates or even two years ago with the gencon first debacle and subsequent sham vote.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Assuming that everything the Pod says is true, backers will get 90% of the different sculpts and total models that they pledged for.

Yes. It's not great news, but DP9 did explain the rationale, the loss of the Tiger and Sidewinder Gears isn't terrible (for the uninitiated, these are "upgrade" models that are better Gears than the standard Hunter/ Jager Gears, but not super critical to the force. Sort of like an Armoured Valk: good for some scenarios, but not something you'd want in every situation.), and they cleverly bundled it with the news that mold cutting has started. So overall the update came as good news.

If you look back over the communications, guess what? DP9 didn't really leak any "sensitive industrial information", but they posted in-progress shots of 3D Gears (and took action on feedback), explained some delays such as the difficulty they had when the factory told them about the limits of the cutting tool. That was an example of a technical delay that the audience could relate to and could adjust their expectations for. That's what even decent communications can do, it helps manage customer expectations. Something PB very, very obviously don't know how to do.

DP9 is still late, but you don't really here that much burning torches and pitchforks. PB is just.... terrible at this.

Just a reminder to everyone that January 31st is the deadline to step forward if interested in taking over the RRT Proboard and/or Wiki....

jaymz wrote:
Just a reminder to everyone that January 31st is the deadline to step forward if interested in taking over the RRT Proboard and/or Wiki....

Would that be slightly less painful than signing up with the AG or FTC?
I find it easier to joke since I do not consider myself knowledgeable enough or have the passion / free time to keep up on it.
Let us hope the apathy is not too strong in the 5000.
Good luck!

 Lynx7725 wrote:

If you look back over the communications, guess what? DP9 didn't really leak any "sensitive industrial information", but they posted in-progress shots of 3D Gears (and took action on feedback), explained some delays such as the difficulty they had when the factory told them about the limits of the cutting tool. That was an example of a technical delay that the audience could relate to and could adjust their expectations for. That's what even decent communications can do, it helps manage customer expectations. Something PB very, very obviously don't know how to do.

DP9 is still late, but you don't really here that much burning torches and pitchforks. PB is just.... terrible at this.

Things certainly haven't been all rosy and perfect over in Heavy Gear but they're certainly better than this clustermess. I realize that using this ks as a bar to compare others to requires a shovel to dig out the bar as it is so low but it's just an example. They're a largely 2 man company whose best days are long behind them making an 80's anime "inspired" robot minis kickstarter in plastic. There have been bumps (it's currently 8 months delays iirc) and some thuds (some of the changes to the minis' looks compared with the metals are IMO less aesthetically desirable) but at least they've been open in a relatively timely fashion (a month to two months delay). They need prodding occassionally to post updates but we're talking about a poke every month (with roughly half the updates being meaty with the other half not) but that's still better than the year of silence, obfuscation, and lies that we've gotten from Palladium. I just wanted to show that a company can update backers with bad news instead of just wasting months to years hoping that the problem will just go away.

It's funny having some extremes of service to contrast against.

This currently holds the distinction as the most delayed campaign I've backed, along with awful (substantial) communication and iffy product.

Whereas Dwarven Forge just sent me the 'label created' email for their 3rd campaign today.

It's funny how 'people' (read: Lola) would argue that, oh, DF single piece tiles don't compare, it's not apples to apples, etc.

But here we are, approaching 3 years later. Palladium has delivered roughly 1/3 of their models (by type). DF is delivering their 3rd campaign (on time, if not early) and their fourth should launch sometime around March. Roughly 4 times the money brought in across maybe twice the number of backers (with overlap), and they're continuing to fire boxes off like pros.

Is a single piece terrain tile equal to a multi-part miniature kit? No. But millions of tiles across dozens and dozens of designs produced, often painted, and delivered is a hell of a lot more impressive than what PB is failing to accomplish.

Sorry, just riding the euphoric high of professionalism here.

Yeah, will, apparently even Lola has accepted that defending this thing is a losing proposition.