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 Conrad Turner wrote:
Mike,

Any work on any model is progress. PB could indeed piecemeal the rest of it. I bet they are. They just won't show any progress on individual pieces because even they have worked out that it would mean instant death for them.

Anyone with that model in their pledge will be screaming " Want it NOW!" which they can't do as it will eat up extra money in postage costs.

Anyone that doesn't have it in their pledge will be screaming "Why THAT model? The one I want is more logical/useful/popular and should have been out before that!".

At this point, anything PB proves they have been working on that is anything less than the whole of wave 2, they could be wiped out. They could have half the remaining stuff ready, but be too scared to do anything about it with the MAC II, or Gnerls, or any of the rest still to be completed. Show it and be damned by faint praise and hatred that it wasn't the model other people would have done next, or suffer in silence unitl the whole lot is complete so they can blow a huge raspberry in our faces for ever doubting they would come through this century.

I don't know which is correct, do you?

It's possible, but I don't think the logistics would bear out. A smaller runtime would be comparatively more expensive by piecemealing, shipping would definitely be if they shipped each SKU separately, and then there's the time and space needed to unpack store it, as they awaited others.

Then there's also the ego involved. Sorry, but I don't think for one second, that Kevin wouldn't be crowing from the rooftops, if an item was complete. The man has shown no sense of shame or restraint in that regard, going back to at least the start of the Kickstarter (December, hoping November, maybe October!). He wouldn't keep it a secret, even if as above, it would be excessively expensive to do it that way. He'd also probably find some excuse to get it to retail, because this is Kevin, king of the broken promise. Personally, it'd be a good short term business decision, assuming he was able to move product (and I do note Miniature Market restocked after their last sale, but in very small numbers). But yes, he'd get screamed at, because it'd be another failure to do what was not only specified during the campaign, but has since been doubled, tripled, quadrupled down on, since then. So doing this would be a PR disaster. But Kevin has shown in that regard, he doesn't give a feth. He thinks his fanfriends will back him (and they will), that his haters will hate him (and they will), and that the vast majority will forgive him (I doubt very very much).

That's different from showing progress leading up to the actual production though. They could show the digital 3D component breakdowns, though given the now years of "reducing parts count", it'd have to be a VAST improvement, or they'll rightly get slammed. They could show the 3D printed prototypes that would be the next step. They could show the milled molds. Or the test sprues. But for the last two, they'd need a manufacturer, and they've stated they're looking for one.

And yes, unless they're the absolute pinnacle of plastic perfection, there will be a lot of screaming regardless. Because they've bungled not only the project, but the management of expectations for so long, and so consistently, that even if they announced courier express delivery to everyone, simultaneously, tomorrow, with a huge feeling of smugness, a good portion of backers, way more than the "handful" who have been vocal in opposition, just won't give a feth.

And even if Wave 2 completes, PB have shown no capacity for, and no interest in, handling any kind of structured environment that would help foster and develop the game. If it wasn't for Talizvar, Nesbet, Mike and a few others, doing things on their own dime, there would be no online presence for the project at all.

Hell, I'd settle for them showing small scale progress on the Earth Defense Conventional Vehicles, that were supposed to be completed 15 months ago, and require next to no work from Palladium. It's simple stuff like that, and the Wave 2 cards (which they're finally doing), that they've bungled so consistently, but would have given people a little faith, that's the reason I have none. When even the simplest things, that take a day or two of investment into, take a year plus? Yeah, appearing to be a smug jackass when it's complete, isn't appropriate. But humility has never been Palladium's strong suit.

Crap. I don't know how I manage to post my thing just in the last post avaliable for one page, so it goes unnoticed... and my efforts to go back on topic are taken down with more blah blah about how gakky PB is (and it is, but alas).

:(

EDIT: screw it! here it goes again:

 Nesbet wrote:
Well, BACK ON TOPIC!

Here are some WIP shots of my Regults. They are currently being painted by a hired brush from Santiago
(yup. I recognized Real Life has been such a bitch last months, that I would not be able to paint all these 64 miniatures)

Bases. No highlights yet:



First test. blacklinning with brush. I said her that I could delineate better than her with brush (LOL) so I bought here some gundam markers...



Rough blacklinning without corections:


Lines corrected, still missing highlights:




Well, that's mostly "my" progress so far. I sent her 36 Regults, 8 of each artillery pods, 4 scouts and 3 Glaugs.
At first I thought this paint scheme will be just for the Regults, and for the arillery I thought about changing the main colour of the scheme (red) for something else, like dark grey or something.
Now, seeing those 12 red Regults, so sexy, Im thinking about a tidal wave of red mechas xD

Don't know what to do. Use this scheme with slight variations from unit to unit or just use same scheme for all the 64 miniatures?

Let me hear your opinions! Or read. Whatever!

I like the blacklining. Did he use a wash or micropen?

 Mike1975 wrote:
Doesn't matter since they can only afford to ship wave 2 as a single wave. The only exception is the smaller pledges that were only for the unique Rick or Roy figures and nothing else. Those could be fulfilled and considered closed.

The "smart" thing to do is target the models that would close the books on the most people.
Then quietly mail them all out.
People happy and confused with little information would not be able to stir-up much controversy.
Plus, people would not know if it is all done or partially, at least for a few months.
Then repeat as funds or capability permit.
Unfortunately with this method, they could possibly then get those owed down to a "vocal few" and let it end there.
Note: this is the more unethical means of doing things which is what I am assuming would be their choice.

I think it really depends on how serious they are of continuing with RRT or just want it to end.

@Nesbet: Yeah, the good old "Gundam pen" funny how many people call them a "cheat" but the results are hard to argue.
I have a few other methods I show in my gallery:

I really like the eye on the pods, very striking.

For missile pod colour... many "elite" models for the Zent are green, I think that would be good.
Plus, red and green are contrasting colours so it should look bright enough.
It is difficult however to not look like a Christmas theme.

I would suggest a Santa Spartan for flavor.

hahahahaha
I dismissed green for that very own reason.

After this batch of Regults, she said to me "hey, the regults could have been with yellow, scouts orange/red and artillery red, to have a fire-themed scheme"
And I replied "crap, I should have thought that earlier"

Orange is also dismissed, because another player and friend is painting his malcontents in a white/oraange scheme

@warboss: yeah, gundam marker FTW

Durp... didn't see the marker comment. I guess i wa mesmerized by the pic on my phone!

 Conrad Turner wrote:
Mike,

Any work on any model is progress. PB could indeed piecemeal the rest of it. I bet they are. They just won't show any progress on individual pieces because even they have worked out that it would mean instant death for them.

Anyone with that model in their pledge will be screaming " Want it NOW!" which they can't do as it will eat up extra money in postage costs.

Anyone that doesn't have it in their pledge will be screaming "Why THAT model? The one I want is more logical/useful/popular and should have been out before that!".

At this point, anything PB proves they have been working on that is anything less than the whole of wave 2, they could be wiped out. They could have half the remaining stuff ready, but be too scared to do anything about it with the MAC II, or Gnerls, or any of the rest still to be completed. Show it and be damned by faint praise and hatred that it wasn't the model other people would have done next, or suffer in silence unitl the whole lot is complete so they can blow a huge raspberry in our faces for ever doubting they would come through this century.

I don't know which is correct, do you?

Given PB's penchant for proudly announcing they have decided on the shape of a 6 sided die, and their lack of anything in regards to RRT tells me they have done nothing and just paying lip service to us.

 Nesbet wrote:
Well, BACK ON TOPIC!

Here are some WIP shots of my Regults. They are currently being painted by a hired brush from Santiago
(yup. I recognized Real Life has been such a bitch last months, that I would not be able to paint all these 64 miniatures)
Well, that's mostly "my" progress so far. I sent her 36 Regults, 8 of each artillery pods, 4 scouts and 3 Glaugs.
At first I thought this paint scheme will be just for the Regults, and for the arillery I thought about changing the main colour of the scheme (red) for something else, like dark grey or something.
Now, seeing those 12 red Regults, so sexy, Im thinking about a tidal wave of red mechas xD

Don't know what to do. Use this scheme with slight variations from unit to unit or just use same scheme for all the 64 miniatures?

Let me hear your opinions! Or read. Whatever!

I didn't use gundam pens on mine since thought it made them look cheesy. but too each his own. also who will be applying the decals? they about to have fun.

 Nesbet wrote:
hahahahaha
I dismissed green for that very own reason.
Orange is also dismissed, because another player and friend is painting his malcontents in a white/oraange scheme

Looking at the colour wheel there are a few options:

It looks like the pods have a rust-red look which is Red-Orange.

"Primary" (ish): Red-Orange, Yellow-Green, Blue-Violet

"Split Complimentary": Red-Orange, Green, Blue (So yeah, missile pods in blue would look right).

"Analogous": Red-Orange, Red, Red-Violet.
I am tempted with this since all your elites will be green which will make them stand out more... unless you choose otherwise.
It also puts it a step back from the "fire" theme as well as Zents do have some purple to their uniforms so that might work.
Plus when your friend's pods are on the board with yours it would "look right" somehow.

I painted some Regults and made the pannel lines with brush. It's slow, but I can make that right (heck, I'm a dentist, this miniatures are big compared with thooth) but i don't have time to do all those lines x 64 and moar models ^_^U
EDIT:





I'll apply the decals. I think that too. Pretty fun. And will love to give them the finishing touches and decals to call the project ready


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks Talizvar! I forgot to look at the damned wheel. Blue/purplish would look cool IMHO...

Thanks for the colour wheel!

Looking at these pictures, I wonder if I should stick to "normal" colours and not metallics.

I also like using metallics sparingly because it is so hard to safeguard against metallic contamination (Nesbet is doing it well but the panel lines were giving some trouble on the metal).

How many want a more "realistic" look to the models or more like the cartoon? I had done a bunch of "block painting" so had not committed to this yet.

Interesting idea over on fotm.

Someone suggested that palladium dedicate a staffer to doing errata and the faq etc for RRT

Wonder how guys like myself and mike1975 never thought to push for such a thing?

#sarcasm


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fifth post from the bottom

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=150550

Perhaps they could get their trusted official Palladium fanfriend volunteer plumber to do it since they exclusively promote from within their existing ranks. He'd likely already be used to being elbow deep in Kevin's crap so naturally would be a good fit/expert.

@jaymz: Are we sure with all the "editing" that went on, it would appear like a new idea?

The poor guy is so idealistic!
I swear elbow grease and initiative are a punishable offence at Palladium.
Nevermind delivering what you promised or it would be like stealing from the company.

Actually, that is my post Jaymz, and to be quite frank we have always needed an official Palladium voice, not volunteers calling the shots on rules.

I have consistently taken issue with the assertions that certain people have made about the rules throughout this campaign. Fan made rulings are just that, and only that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And just to be clear, I do not believe they will do it, but it is something they need to do if they are going to ever commit to supporting the game earnestly.

Ah ok. Well to be frank..i agree but as i said it 's been tried qnd failed miserably. As evidenced by the present state we are in.

They. Won't. Do. It.

Yeah I have zero expectation that they will, but in the spirit of the thread I added my two cents.

 Swabby wrote:
Yeah I have zero expectation that they will, but in the spirit of the thread I added my two cents.

Agreed, I have posted things so the words were at least said, which got me a few PM's wondering if I lost my mind.
I do think they "designated" a couple people and they become a victim of TUTB (thrown under the bus) or they suddenly have better things to do like Wayne.

As far as I can tell, not one of the staff have learned how to play the game. They can't answer questions, because that would mean they had knowledge of the system and experience in playing to draw from.

They don't even play with their RPG system, any longer.

Talizvar, to the best of my knowledge Wayne is the only employee to post a rules clarification, and just once. Phaze posted the official FAQ but even he is just an MA to my knowledge.

 Swabby wrote:
Actually, that is my post Jaymz, and to be quite frank we have always needed an official Palladium voice, not volunteers calling the shots on rules.

I have consistently taken issue with the assertions that certain people have made about the rules throughout this campaign. Fan made rulings are just that, and only that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And just to be clear, I do not believe they will do it, but it is something they need to do if they are going to ever commit to supporting the game earnestly.

This is true, but it is also why Jaymz and I pushed so hard, for you guys, since we don't stress on "Official" rules, to have PB update something "Officially". Notice that we did try so many times with little response or care from PB that we gave up. A group of 8-10 people worked and discussed the Blast rules change in details and then PB just changed it to whatever they wanted without coming back and asking why we changed things the way we did. That was the last straw for me and why I moved to Nodal Wars.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 n815e wrote:
As far as I can tell, not one of the staff have learned how to play the game. They can't answer questions, because that would mean they had knowledge of the system and experience in playing to draw from.

They don't even play with their RPG system, any longer.

I'm pretty sure you are right. A few do play the RPG though. They have little clue or interest with the RRT rules though. Shoot, I'm starting to forget the rules some myself since I use my own rules set the few times I can get to play.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swabby wrote:
Talizvar, to the best of my knowledge Wayne is the only employee to post a rules clarification, and just once. Phaze posted the official FAQ but even he is just an MA to my knowledge.

I'm pretty sure this was after it was spoon fed to him and then he had to be cajoled and pushed into that much.

 Swabby wrote:
Talizvar, to the best of my knowledge Wayne is the only employee to post a rules clarification, and just once. Phaze posted the official FAQ but even he is just an MA to my knowledge.

Actually the faq, though posted by phaze, was vetted by carmen etc at pb. A perfect example of them dragging their feet considering how long even THAT took.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And dont get me or mike started on the conventional forces rules....

This is true, but it is also why Jaymz and I pushed so hard, for you guys, since we don't stress on "Official" rules, to have PB update something "Officially". Notice that we did try so many times with little response or care from PB that we gave up. A group of 8-10 people worked and discussed the Blast rules change in details and then PB just changed it to whatever they wanted without coming back and asking why we changed things the way we did. That was the last straw for me and why I moved to Nodal Wars.

I'm sure they didn't play test their changes, either.

Noooooope


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Noooooope

Yeah I know you guys were pushing hard to get them to acknowledge and correct a whole slew of issues. That you even felt like you had to do it should have been a huge red flag to all involved. You were both (Jaymz and Mike) so full of hope and gusto back then!

That they were leaning so heavily on you guys for so much while staying silent officially certainly was a red flag for me back then.

Now I am determined to just enjoy what we do have and not let PB ruin my memories of the franchise and have fun playing.

 Swabby wrote:
Yeah I know you guys were pushing hard to get them to acknowledge and correct a whole slew of issues. That you even felt like you had to do it should have been a huge red flag to all involved. You were both (Jaymz and Mike) so full of hope and gusto back then!

That they were leaning so heavily on you guys for so much while staying silent officially certainly was a red flag for me back then.

Now I am determined to just enjoy what we do have and not let PB ruin my memories of the franchise and have fun playing.

Well I've got all the First War units done for Nodal Wars. I even improved on the RRT stats some by adding alternate munitions for the Monster and some alternate units that people could use if they wanted too. There is enough changes in the rules to allow you to use a smaller force and play and enjoy a game (No more fixed squadrons). Now I'm kinda sad that I have so many RRT minis and that with NW I don't need to use the massive armies. I can't wait to finish out the Battletech Clans and 3039 stuff so I can do a Battletech Clan vs Robotech Master's game.

I've also had people want me to convert over some Heavy Gear stuff now that the Kickstarter is delivering. I can't wait to roll that out and get some additional playtesting done using HG.

In the end, since Robotech will not be strongly supported by PB, we are left to out own devices and ingenuity to support the Robotech cause. The trick is to divorce PB and HG enough from RRT so that you can enjoy it. The only real way to do that is use the minis (what ones you can) and avoid the RRT game system.

A few have even made STAW conversions and an X-Wing conversion for RRT minis.

I have actually been kicking around the idea of making a fan based revision of RRT similar to what heralds of ruin has done for kill team, but specifically robotech focused. I know you have Nodal Wars but it is more broad spectrum and multiverse based. I just want RRT.

 Swabby wrote:
I have actually been kicking around the idea of making a fan based revision of RRT similar to what heralds of ruin has done for kill team, but specifically robotech focused. I know you have Nodal Wars but it is more broad spectrum and multiverse based. I just want RRT.

Actually I play mostly RRT with it. That is what I originally intended, to play RRT but without the Squadron limits and at a smaller "Skirmish" scale. Later, I just decided to add some more abilities to accommodate other minis that I have so that I could use my CAV KS minis and my old RRT stuff.

 Talizvar wrote:

What is that clear koh-i-noor pen in the middle? Is it just a container for something, or is it an almost-empty mechanical eraser, or something else entirely?

Soul Samurai wrote:
What is that clear koh-i-noor pen in the middle? Is it just a container for something, or is it an almost-empty mechanical eraser, or something else entirely?

It is a refillable technical pen.
I know, I think that is why they sell them opaque again: there really is not much to a pen of this nature BUT you need a long handle to use it.
Much like the "rapidliner" on the left but I was able to get an even thinner tip and use "white ink" which is handy for the BT.
I think they are an "old" model of the Koh-I-Noor, I liked it where I could see how much ink remained without taking it apart.
More info on the pens are here: http://www.kohinoorusa.com/products/pens/rapidograph/pens/index.php
Plus better information (oddly) here: https://www.currys.com/catalogpc.htm?CATEGORY=KIN_RAPIDOGRAPH_PENS
The cleaning equipment is a must: I had the "ink" dry in the tiny tube/tip a couple times.
They work awesome otherwise.

Interesting, I did not know about those. Have you ever tried them with thinned acrylic paint rather than ink? That's an idea that I've been curious about in the past.