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 Manchu wrote:


Also revenge for what? That part of your backer rewards is extremely late.

Oh please. Tell me, do you believe that? They are not "extremely late" they are extremely fictional. So much so, that I will sell you what I am owed for 75% off.

Since it's only late, you'd be a fool to pass up such a bargain, right?

I'll offer mine for 90% off

Sining wrote:
I would pretty much be ok if any calamity of any sort befall Kevin personally or if PB shut down.

This kind of talk is why it's so easy for Kevin to write off the legitimate criticism. "They're just hateful," he says. And he's not entirely wrong.

Merijeek wrote:
They are not "extremely late" they are extremely fictional.

In that case, nothing would change if PB went under. Why throw good money after bad? I suspect in your haste to make your point, you totally missed mine: filing law suits against PB is at best a pointless, costly exercise and a petty revenge fantasy at worst.

Like Kevin needs any help writing off criticism.

To make it credible to the mis-/ill-informed, he does.

I got the email this weekend and well...wow.

I'm assuming Carmen is in the hospital, and I doubt Kevin and he had a conversation about updating the RRT KS over the attempt. If that is true, what does Carmen do when he gets out of the hospital and reads all of this?

My analysis of the situation is wave 2 will most likely never happen and since I haven't opened my wave 1 or starter box, I threw everything I have up on ebay to hopefully get something back from a game that I'll likely never play and will likely never get wave 2.

Well 75USD shipped for the core set is the price to beat.

EDIT: scratch that, it's actually 66USD shipped

 Manchu wrote:
To make it credible to the mis-/ill-informed, he does.

He really doesn't. Just look at the recent update. Most of the people backing Kevin don't even know what was said in that argument with Carmen but they're backing him anyway cause 'mean internet trolls'.

Kevin doesn't need any legitimate targets. He just needs to claim there are some

Sining wrote:
'mean internet trolls'

Sining wrote:
I would pretty much be ok if any calamity of any sort befall Kevin personally

We are talking about Kevin and not Carmen here. I've said nothing against Carmen. Do try not to mix the two Manchu.

Otoh, if Kevin wants to read my comments and commit suicide, I can't say I would be filled with remorse. My only hope would be that for once, he succeeds in doing something in his life.

I'm not mixing the two.

I'm pointing out that you're posting terrible, hateful things. And that makes it easy for people who read those posts to say, Kevin is right - these guys are just haters.

Yes, those hateful backers who dislike Kevin immensely. I'm sure they don't have any reason to at all. How dare they say bad things about Kevin in a forum that Kevin doesn't go to at all.

I'm not saying I hate Kevin, but if a meteor fell on him or lightning struck him or he committed suicide, I wouldn't be overly upset. I wouldn't go out of my way to perform any of those things; not that I can make meteors fall or lighting strike him and I don't have a death note, but that's the way it is. If Kevin expects backers to want his continue well-being, he may be sorely mistaken

Sining, are you a child? I'm not trying to be funny, it's just your failure to understand Manchus point is hard to fathom.

The target is irrelevant.

I'm pointing out that people have legitimate reasons to dislike Kevin and to handwave away all legitimate criticisms because quite a few people dislike Kevin is edit: not intelligent since they don't allow me to write slowed. Just because people are afraid of losing the low-information crowd who will think 'people are haters' is not a good enough reason to stop people from expressing their dislike of Kevin or even PB if they want to. The low-information crowd will ALWAYS side with a perceived victim, as in the case of Carmen where they didn't even need to read the exchange between Carmen and the other backers to side with Kevin.

If you were Kickstarter which of the following three views do you think they'll take about the comments section.
There is no vitriol
There is vitriol
There is vitriol, but it's targeted at this other guy, so it's ok.

I'm curious why you would bring up KS because honestly, who cares what KS is going to think. Are they going to somehow force Kevin to come out with wave 2 if there's no vitriol? If there's vitriol, are they somehow going to let Kevin not come out with wave 2; which already seems to be the case. Is KS actually going to have some accountability now?

I should also point out I rarely comment on the KS comments and I didn't even bother arguing with Carmen. I've mostly forgotten about this until Kevin decided to accuse backers of causing Carmen to commit suicide. So, should I censor my dislike of Kevin on a forum he doesn't even come to? Maybe I shouldn't even talk bad about him in real life in case he hears about that too.

That game was played before: Be nice to Kevin and he might actually fulfill his obligations.

(he won't)

Didn't Mike try that? Oh, I guess even then the haters ruined it right?

Fine, forget Kickstarter, any unrelated third party including fictional characters!
FFS!

 Manchu wrote:

Sining wrote:
I would pretty much be ok if any calamity of any sort befall Kevin personally or if PB shut down.

This kind of talk is why it's so easy for Kevin to write off the legitimate criticism. "They're just hateful," he says. And he's not entirely wrong.

Merijeek wrote:
They are not "extremely late" they are extremely fictional.

In that case, nothing would change if PB went under. Why throw good money after bad? I suspect in your haste to make your point, you totally missed mine: filing law suits against PB is at best a pointless, costly exercise and a petty revenge fantasy at worst.

I'm not someone who is claiming I'm going to file a lawsuit, nor am I claiming a tsunami his heading their way.

To play your game, if Palladium Books goes out of business tomorrow, how does it affect my life? I will get no more or less product from them than I would if they were to stay in business for eternity. For me, the only difference is an embarrassing, thieving gaming company will pass from existence. This isn't Chaosium where someone who gives a damn will come in and toss out the thief in charge. As long as there is a Kevin Simbieda, he will be running Palladium Books.

Joyboozer wrote:
Fine, forget Kickstarter, any unrelated third party including fictional characters!
FFS!

So I'm curious. Do you think the exchange between Carmen and the other backers was the cause of him committing suicide? I've read through it and frankly, it was pretty mild. No one asks him to go and die, no one asks him to go do other profanity-involved acts that may be physically impossible.

However, there are also many who didn't read it who immediately believe Kevin, because as I said, most low-information people will inherently believe the victim. There are always going to be such people around. Are you going to placate all of them? And if so, how do you plan to do that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Merijeek wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

Sining wrote:
I would pretty much be ok if any calamity of any sort befall Kevin personally or if PB shut down.

This kind of talk is why it's so easy for Kevin to write off the legitimate criticism. "They're just hateful," he says. And he's not entirely wrong.

Merijeek wrote:
They are not "extremely late" they are extremely fictional.

In that case, nothing would change if PB went under. Why throw good money after bad? I suspect in your haste to make your point, you totally missed mine: filing law suits against PB is at best a pointless, costly exercise and a petty revenge fantasy at worst.

I'm not someone who is claiming I'm going to file a lawsuit, nor am I claiming a tsunami his heading their way.

To play your game, if Palladium Books goes out of business tomorrow, how does it affect my life? I will get no more or less product from them than I would if they were to stay in business for eternity. For me, the only difference is an embarrassing, thieving gaming company will pass from existence. This isn't Chaosium where someone who gives a damn will come in and toss out the thief in charge. As long as there is a Kevin Simbieda, he will be running Palladium Books.

I have a friend who may actually be very interested in getting the RIFTS IP from KS. So if PB goes out of business, I think he will go for it. AFAIK, he's already sent one letter to KS expressing his interest but got rejected.

No Sining, I don't, I was there and posting, he was worked up before he posted. That's the problem, he was so convinced it would be bad, it didn't matter what anyone said.
Now, answer my question from before? Do you see the problem?

Merijeek wrote:
Be nice to Kevin

Huh? What I actually suggested was being frank that Siembieda has mismanaged RRT ... and leaving off the self-discrediting "I don't care if he dies" nonsense.

Merijeek wrote:
As long as there is a Kevin Simbieda, he will be running Palladium Books.

But so what. As long as he mismanages PB it will continue to be a dwindle into irrelevance - well, so long as people who he's ripped off bother to warn others from also getting ripped off. Unless of course the legitimate criticism is drowned out by "clever" comments about tsunamis and meteors.

Joyboozer wrote:
No Sining, I don't, I was there and posting, he was worked up before he posted. That's the problem, he was so convinced it would be bad, it didn't matter what anyone said.
Now, answer my question from before? Do you see the problem?

What question? About how the KS comments would look to 3rd party people? I mean, you can't convince everyone to be on your side. You were there, posting with Carmen. You know what was said. There are people who don't even know what was said but will automatically blame you anyway as part of the problem cause of your exchange with Carmen.

Is there vitriol? Probably, since I haven't been to the KS comments in like a long time. Otoh, as someone else said in another thread, it's been 4 plus years since this KS and wave 2 has no indication of ever coming out or even coming out. So is the fact there's vitriol even surprising? Is the fact that people dislike Kevin even surprising?

But otoh, there are always going to be people who judge things without knowing the facts, just like people judging you for driving Carmen to suicide without reading the exchange. What are you going to do about that? What can you do about that? Don't argue with people from PB next time in case they try to commit suicide?

Sining, you've won me over. No more calm rational complaints on this kickstarters mishandling from this guy starting, now.

I'm one of the eat a dick guys, and I'm here to tell all the other members of the eat a dick club, that that KS dude eats dicks, so they can also join me in proclaiming that KS dude eats dicks and we can get the word out that that KS guy eats dicks.
I'll happily pay a dollar on some other dudes Kickstarter to tell people he's a dick eater by association! Because it's vitally important everyone be warned, and nothing works better than aggressive name calling. Eat a dick KS!
You can call it an udder all you want KS, but I know it's a bag of Dicks!

Sarcasm! I hope this isn't necessary!

 Manchu wrote:
Well 75USD shipped for the core set is the price to beat.

EDIT: scratch that, it's actually 66USD shipped

I picked up 2 Box games for $20 Total.

Asterios wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Well 75USD shipped for the core set is the price to beat.

EDIT: scratch that, it's actually 66USD shipped

I picked up 2 Box games for $20 Total.

Manures two dollars a bag.

Joyboozer wrote:
Sining, you've won me over. No more calm rational complaints on this kickstarters mishandling from this guy starting, now.

I'm one of the eat a dick guys, and I'm here to tell all the other members of the eat a dick club, that that KS dude eats dicks, so they can also join me in proclaiming that KS dude eats dicks and we can get the word out that that KS guy eats dicks.
I'll happily pay a dollar on some other dudes Kickstarter to tell people he's a dick eater by association! Because it's vitally important everyone be warned, and nothing works better than aggressive name calling. Eat a dick KS!
You can call it an udder all you want KS, but I know it's a bag of Dicks!

Sarcasm! I hope this isn't necessary!

I mean, you can say what you want, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore legitimate criticism just cause you tell Kevin to eat a dick right? I'm also not going to believe Kevin when he says 'Wave 2 isn't coming' cause you told him to eat a dick. I'm sure some low-information people might, but again, how are you going to convince them otherwise?

Exactly, it's a lot harder to ignore legitimate criticism when it's phrased as legitimate criticism, and not nonsense that looks a lot like trolling.

That makes no sense. I wasn't even trying to give criticism of the KS when I talked about Kevin. Unless you're saying me not caring if Kevin died or not was a criticism of the RRT KS. Did that sound like criticism of the RRT KS to you? Did you expect 3rd party people to take that as legitimate criticism of the RRT KS?

I think you're mistaking the part where people have legitimate criticisms of the KS and people venting about about Kevin. The two are pretty separate and despite the arguments that the latter invalidates the former, that's not 100% true.