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This is too good!

Unintentional comedy - for us, anyway!

 Alpharius wrote:
This is too good!

Unintentional comedy - for us, anyway!

Or could it be intentional?

Honestly "Rick", at this point, the only thing that is a bigger waste of time are the PBWU's and PB's blather about 'still getting quotes', etc.

Not exactly an illustrious list to find yourself on.

 Alpharius wrote:
Honestly "Rick", at this point, the only thing that is a bigger waste of time are the PBWU's and PB's blather about 'still getting quotes', etc.

Not exactly an illustrious list to find yourself on.

You need to say it like this

It's true.

You become what you hate.

Excited and excessive posts about how important you are, but containing nothing of merit or substance. Promises of big things that never happen, hidden behind vagueness and obfuscation, and the dismissal of anyone who questions your word.

To paraphrase Nietzsche "And if thou gaze long into the gRift, the gRift will also gaze into thee."

Rick/Asterios has become Kevin.

Morgan Vening wrote:
It's true.

You become what you hate.

Excited and excessive posts about how important you are, but containing nothing of merit or substance. Promises of big things that never happen, hidden behind vagueness and obfuscation, and the dismissal of anyone who questions your word.

To paraphrase Nietzsche "And if thou gaze long into the gRift, the gRift will also gaze into thee."

Rick/Asterios has become Kevin.

Meh, You guys are the ones who gave me importance, but sadly the tsunami turned into nothing but a small ripple, oh well get over it, I did and life moves on, but alas, you guys continue to give me more importance then what I really am.

Morgan Vening wrote:
It's true.

You become what you hate.

Excited and excessive posts about how important you are, but containing nothing of merit or substance. Promises of big things that never happen, hidden behind vagueness and obfuscation, and the dismissal of anyone who questions your word.

To paraphrase Nietzsche "And if thou gaze long into the gRift, the gRift will also gaze into thee."

Rick/Asterios has become Kevin.

Quoted and then Exalted For...Truth™

Moving on - there's NO WAY they can kick this can past ANOTHER Gencon, is there?

 Alpharius wrote:

Morgan Vening wrote:
It's true.

You become what you hate.

Excited and excessive posts about how important you are, but containing nothing of merit or substance. Promises of big things that never happen, hidden behind vagueness and obfuscation, and the dismissal of anyone who questions your word.

To paraphrase Nietzsche "And if thou gaze long into the gRift, the gRift will also gaze into thee."

Rick/Asterios has become Kevin.

Quoted and then Exalted For...Truth™

Moving on - there's NO WAY they can kick this can past ANOTHER Gencon, is there?

More like a few more Gencons.

Quick question from someone who doesn't have time to read through 300 pages.

I've stopped in to check on the debacle now and then but somehow I missed the fact that nearly one and a half million dollars was raised on this project.

Does any one have a reasonably idea of where 1.4 million dollars went? Was it just not enough to cover the production costs or is there some indication it was spend on wine and loose living?

Gotta say that with that much money at hand, I'm surprised legal action hasn't been taken, but that's just my far-outsiders's view.

Good luck everyone.

Huge overproduction of retail stock is the main albatross of this debacle

Morgan Vening wrote:
It's true.

You become what you hate.

Excited and excessive posts about how important you are, but containing nothing of merit or substance. Promises of big things that never happen, hidden behind vagueness and obfuscation, and the dismissal of anyone who questions your word.

To paraphrase Nietzsche "And if thou gaze long into the gRift, the gRift will also gaze into thee."

Rick/Asterios has become Kevin.

Don't forget blaming everyone else when their grandiose schemes fail when forced to intersect with actual reality.

 jaymz wrote:
Huge overproduction of retail stock is the main albatross of this debacle

while that may be a contributing factor I don't think it was the only one, think several factors played a roll here.

 Eilif wrote:
Quick question from someone who doesn't have time to read through 300 pages.

I've stopped in to check on the debacle now and then but somehow I missed the fact that nearly one and a half million dollars was raised on this project.

Does any one have a reasonably idea of where 1.4 million dollars went? Was it just not enough to cover the production costs or is there some indication it was spend on wine and loose living?

Gotta say that with that much money at hand, I'm surprised legal action hasn't been taken, but that's just my far-outsiders's view.

Good luck everyone.

The phrase "robbing Peter to pay Paul" comes to mind.

Which is probably why the Rifts board game KS failing made Kevin call in sick for the PBWU a couple of weeks ago.

@Meri, good point.

EmraldArcher wrote:
The phrase "robbing Peter to pay Paul" comes to mind.

Which is probably why the Rifts board game KS failing made Kevin call in sick for the PBWU a couple of weeks ago.

Not so sure on that. I don't think that there was any chance, even if gRifts exceeded all expectation ($2M+), And even if gRifts was a true shell corporation, I think backers would remain hosed. Because firstly, they'd keep up the ruse.

And secondly, I think even in Kevin's fairytale universe, he realizes RRT is a sunk cost. The game is dead. The amount of money required to finish, freight and ship to backers, greatly exceeds any profitability they can expect from retail sales. And given the staff's complete lack of enthusiasm, there isn't even a personal passion element.

So, I think even if gRifts comes back stronger than ever, any money they do get from that will be put elsewhere. RRT is just a white elephant for them.

EDIT: I don't dispute the possibility that RRT funds were used to prop up PB or finish other projects (though I'm not saying they did, either). Just that if that WAS the case, I don't think it would be reciprocated to RRT. RRT is a dead end for PB.

Morgan Vening wrote:
@Meri, good point.

EmraldArcher wrote:
The phrase "robbing Peter to pay Paul" comes to mind.

Which is probably why the Rifts board game KS failing made Kevin call in sick for the PBWU a couple of weeks ago.

Not so sure on that. I don't think that there was any chance, even if gRifts exceeded all expectation ($2M+), And even if gRifts was a true shell corporation, I think backers would remain hosed. Because firstly, they'd keep up the ruse.

And secondly, I think even in Kevin's fairytale universe, he realizes RRT is a sunk cost. The game is dead. The amount of money required to finish, freight and ship to backers, greatly exceeds any profitability they can expect from retail sales. And given the staff's complete lack of enthusiasm, there isn't even a personal passion element.

So, I think even if gRifts comes back stronger than ever, any money they do get from that will be put elsewhere. RRT is just a white elephant for them.

And there in lies the Truth, as it stands gRifts not funding may have been a bigger hit to PB as a whole (let us not forget Kevin garage sale just recently), and as I have said PB will never do wave 2, it will cost them way much more money then they will ever make and it would be like burning money.

I also doubt gRifts money would have been used for RRT. At the end of the day, Rifts is PB's flesh and blood. Robotech is a foster child. Even in the years that PB held the RPG license, releases for Robotech stuff is much less than Rifts product.

No reason to expect PB to discharge their RRT responsibilities when they hadn't any track record of that post-Wave 1.

Asterios wrote:
And there in lies the Truth, as it stands gRifts not funding may have been a bigger hit to PB as a whole (let us not forget Kevin garage sale just recently), and as I have said PB will never do wave 2, it will cost them way much more money then they will ever make and it would be like burning money.

I am pretty sure the moment $1.5 million was in hand everything was looking like lost money to them AFTER they saw how badly the box sets were not moving.
I mean, it is easy to look at things from their end: reprint old RPG's as stock runs out, publish a Rifter every once in a while when money gets tight, call Christmas any time of the year for the gift package, especially when Kev is feeling Grinchy, money easily accepted, beloved stock grudgingly given in exchange (sure you cannot accept Kev's signature signed on toilet paper? pretty please?)

 Talizvar wrote:

Asterios wrote:
And there in lies the Truth, as it stands gRifts not funding may have been a bigger hit to PB as a whole (let us not forget Kevin garage sale just recently), and as I have said PB will never do wave 2, it will cost them way much more money then they will ever make and it would be like burning money.

I am pretty sure the moment $1.5 million was in hand everything was looking like lost money to them AFTER they saw how badly the box sets were not moving.
I mean, it is easy to look at things from their end: reprint old RPG's as stock runs out, publish a Rifter every once in a while when money gets tight, call Christmas any time of the year for the gift package, especially when Kev is feeling Grinchy, money easily accepted, beloved stock grudgingly given in exchange (sure you cannot accept Kev's signature signed on toilet paper? pretty please?)

Of course, which is why it always makes me laugh when people keep thinking Wave 2 will come out, doubt Kevin will throw money away on that, unlike his highly prized collectibles.

Morgan Vening wrote:
@Meri, good point.

EmraldArcher wrote:
The phrase "robbing Peter to pay Paul" comes to mind.

Which is probably why the Rifts board game KS failing made Kevin call in sick for the PBWU a couple of weeks ago.

Not so sure on that. I don't think that there was any chance, even if gRifts exceeded all expectation ($2M+), And even if gRifts was a true shell corporation, I think backers would remain hosed. Because firstly, they'd keep up the ruse.

And secondly, I think even in Kevin's fairytale universe, he realizes RRT is a sunk cost. The game is dead. The amount of money required to finish, freight and ship to backers, greatly exceeds any profitability they can expect from retail sales. And given the staff's complete lack of enthusiasm, there isn't even a personal passion element.

So, I think even if gRifts comes back stronger than ever, any money they do get from that will be put elsewhere. RRT is just a white elephant for them.

EDIT: I don't dispute the possibility that RRT funds were used to prop up PB or finish other projects (though I'm not saying they did, either). Just that if that WAS the case, I don't think it would be reciprocated to RRT. RRT is a dead end for PB.

I never said or even implied that the Rifts board game funds would be used for RRT. Wave 2 will never see the light of day.

My comment about robbing Peter to pay Paul was in regards to the RRT funds and general mismanagement of the company. Kevin was assuredly relying on funds from the board game campaign to fund Palladium, not RRT.

EmraldArcher wrote:


My comment about robbing Peter to pay Paul was in regards to the RRT funds.

Yeah there was some serious question in timing in when RRT funded and PB got paid and they released the Northern Gun Books shortly there after which were already really late on delivery.

Asterios wrote:
Meh, You guys are the ones who gave me importance, but sadly the tsunami turned into nothing but a small ripple, oh well get over it, I did and life moves on, but alas, you guys continue to give me more importance then what I really am.

???

Asterios Importance = legal tsunami
legal tsunami = small ripple
small ripple = Asterios is a drip.

Logical conclusive proof right there.
Don't worry, I did not assign you any more importance than you deserved... didn't want to give you any performance anxiety.

[MOD EDIT - RULE #2 - Alpharius]

The new Zombicide kickstarter started today.. at the current rate they will break a million before tonight.;

It just shows on the Rifts Game how much Robotech Tactics was pulling it down.. Plus presentation and value makes
a big kicker also..

What if Kevin did come out and say that there is no money left..?? Would it even help ? The game could have had so much
promise; I think the game could have really worked.. they just need to keep the ball rolling instead of dropping it like a bomb.

My personal feeling is he will keep saying "I'm working on it" even on his death bed...

 Genoside07 wrote:
The new Zombicide kickstarter started today.. at the current rate they will break a million before tonight.

Of course they will they did everything PB did not like actually deliver promised product and not after several years.

The Zombicide kickstarter is quite good.
Reasonable stretch goals, ONE choice which is funny.
Even the goal is a reasonable amount of money.
Funny how PB makes it seem like rocket science.

 Talizvar wrote:
The Zombicide kickstarter is quite good.
Reasonable stretch goals, ONE choice which is funny.
Even the goal is a reasonable amount of money.
Funny how PB makes it seem like rocket science.

I like the part where the stretch goal minis come with the game and you don't have to buy them extra.

 Talizvar wrote:
The Zombicide kickstarter is quite good.
Reasonable stretch goals, ONE choice which is funny.
Even the goal is a reasonable amount of money.
Funny how PB makes it seem like rocket science.

Same setup as the CMON Rising Sun KS.

1 pledge level, and like... 4 add-ons? One was a bigger map, one was metal coin upgrades, an expansion box, and an art book.

All In cost a total of $225, base pledge was $100.

4.2m and a dump truck full of stuff.

I really like Zombicide Black Plague and I'm sure I will like Green Tide.

 Genoside07 wrote:
What if Kevin did come out and say that there is no money left..?? Would it even help ? The game could have had so much
promise; I think the game could have really worked.. they just need to keep the ball rolling instead of dropping it like a bomb.

My personal feeling is he will keep saying "I'm working on it" even on his death bed...

If Kevin said there was no money left, it would absolutely not help. It'd probably destroy the company. Because while there are a "handful" of backers screaming for blood, there are likely a significant number who while having given up on a timeline, still expect a return on their money. That the promises that Kevin still intends to fulfill (even if they don't believe he's working on it as much as he claims) are lies, and have been for a long time, will see some increased anger. And such an admission will trigger the Kickstarter failure clause, whereby they owe backers refunds. And that'd start a whole big snowball of hostility. So Kevin will keep it going until his departure from the company. All he needs to do is cut and paste and slightly modify the same para every week, and write a blathering vagueness three or four times a year, and he's able to slide on his obligations, and keep doing the stuff he wants to do.

Regarding the game having promise, it's been discussed before, and even in the most optimistic circumstances, it'd have never done better than high third tier, maybe low second tier wargaming. Battletech/Heavy Gear level, but not Warmahordes/Malifaux level. And that's at it's best. It's based on a 30 year old cartoon that's had no real revitalization, and while popular at the time, doesn't have the cultural cache that's made X-Wing so popular. One of the reasons I initially invested so heavily, was so that I could sell 5 BC's at cost locally to gin up support. Because I don't thing the game would have taken off locally at retail pricing. So getting BC prices would have been a way of infusing the gamespace with enough critical mass to get people playing, and then retail has a chance to cement. Investing in a game people are playing is different to being the first canary in the coal mine. It's the reason GW is so successful. Because you can always get a game.

But circumstances changed when SpartanGate happened, and I bailed on that whole concept immediately. May 14th, they showed the Spartan Prototypes, May 18th, they reclarified their position that "it had to be done this way", and the same day I asked for a refund. Rejected, of course.

And what is the "Kickstarter failure clause"? Because from what I've seen so far, it seems that would amount to an email from Kickstarter to PB saying, "Guys, you should totes return the money now. Well, you should, anyway."

Moreso, it would open up PB to actual action. Money was taken, goods are owed or money to be refunded. Sure, someone would either have to get an AG invovled or do a personal suite, but they would have an extremely strong standing if it's been admitted the KS has failed.

PB could possibly mitigate what it would legally owe backers, but they'd have to open up their books to show how the money was spent - and with what we've seen in other areas at PB, that'd probably show enough questionable intermixing of funds, lies over the past two years on what's actually been spent/worked on, they'd be forced to declare bankrupty. Further, if there's been intermixing/redirecting of funds as others have suspected, Kevin's own personal funds could be in jeapordy - if he doesn't end up in legal trouble for embezzlement.