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Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 TwoGunBob wrote:
I know the Rifts Sooperfans are sick of hearing about Robotech at every turn.

My heart bleeds for them. So. Very. Sad.
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




 Albertorius wrote:
 TwoGunBob wrote:
I know the Rifts Sooperfans are sick of hearing about Robotech at every turn.

My heart bleeds for them. So. Very. Sad.

And it's not like there were a ton of them. It was being advertised for six months. Heavily promoted for the last one or two. So it's not like there was anyone with more than a passing interest in PB that didn't know about it.

And it got 600 backers (including several non-committal ones). That's simply not indicative of a robust playerbase. And the math gets kind of sketchy for PB. It really makes me wonder, given the size of the playerbase, and the sparse release effort, how PB continue to operate. Even if they got full MSRP for each book, just paying payroll and utilities with one new release every 6 months...

I hope Scotty isn't working probono. Kr being paid in old stock and backissue Rifters.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Maybe action figures from Kevster's private stash?

I really think Scooter is going to feign a lot of clueless bewilderment regarding Robotech despite the fact he's been hanging on Palladium's teat long enough to pretty much know everything regarding progress. In case Scoots needs a refresher I can sum it up easily.

There has been no progress of any sorts in three years.

Now that Scotts is up to date he can move forward. Course he's about two or three updates away from talking about his worries regarding the impending six month long Chinese New Year ruining chances for a speedy release in 2017 but by third quarter 2018 things should be shaping up to give some real concrete information about the firming up of those quotes...

Except...

Con crud maybe?

OPEC embargo affecting production of plastics quotes?

The only good fnord is a dead fnord?

The Fortress Unvanquishable, Save for Sacnoth?

   
Made in us
Shocked Micronized Zentraedi Spy



Shelby Twp. Michigan

OK. Who is Scott really? I have a feeling that Scott could be the real owner PB now. I don't know why I think this its a feeling. Maybe its all the posts I read here and every where else that I read. 1 some one posted that HG will make a decision this summer about PB. 2 Why the big push with Rift BG KS by summer. 3 Kev sick and not around for few week after. Well right now it a question what happen after GenCon and the summer , we shall see what fall brings. I don't know its a feeling here guys . Maybe Scotty is the new owner of PB

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/27 19:50:30


 
   
Made in us
Knight of the Inner Circle






DEZOAT wrote:
OK. Who is Scott really? I have a feeling that Scott could be the real owner PB now. I don't know why I think this its a feeling. Maybe its all the posts I read here and every where else that I read. 1 some one posted that HG will make a decision this summer about PB. 2 Why the big push with Rift BG KS by summer. 3 Kev sick and not around for few week after. Well right now it a question what happen after GenCon and the summer , we shall see what fall brings. I don't know its a feeling here guys . Maybe Scotty is the new owner of PB


Don\t know if Scott is a new owner, backer or investor but it seems like things are moving again.. Just like all the back logged books got published after palladium got a hold of the RTT kick-starter money.

As with anything.. you can do what ever you want in life.. just depends on how much money you want to spend getting there.. But there is money coming in from some where and its not from game sales.

The truth will be on the information provided at the July 4th and Gen Con announcements .. If they continue with the "we are working on it" with no real proof of anything, it doesn't matter. Most will loose
the remaining faith and move on like most of us has already done.

The other thing I thought was when ninja division was running things there was the idea of single pose injection molded figures like zombicide or Conan, but Kevin wanted to compete with games workshop.
I think I would been fine with a decent game with those types of models.. instead we got a half baked game with models that are impossible to build without instructions.

 
   
Made in us
Expendable Defender Destroid Rookie





I would have been fine with decent quality PVC figures instead of micro-models. Especially if we got everything in a single wave on or around the promised 98% ship date.
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Ditto on PVC, the likes of several CMON games and even the recent Runewars figures shows you can do very nice one piece - or close to one piece figures.

However, I think it is far to late in the game for them now to even consider this - they've made their grave, now they'll have to lie in it.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Inexperienced VF-1A Valkyrie Brownie






Yay for an entire table of the lifted knee battloid.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





DEZOAT wrote:
OK. Who is Scott really? I have a feeling that Scott could be the real owner PB now. I don't know why I think this its a feeling. Maybe its all the posts I read here and every where else that I read. 1 some one posted that HG will make a decision this summer about PB. 2 Why the big push with Rift BG KS by summer. 3 Kev sick and not around for few week after. Well right now it a question what happen after GenCon and the summer , we shall see what fall brings. I don't know its a feeling here guys . Maybe Scotty is the new owner of PB


No Scott is not the new owner. I was curious and sent him an email. Once you know the email of one you can pretty well guess the emails for everyone else. I did talk to him briefly and he does give me a glimmer of hope, although I will wait to see what the update says in July. This does not sway me from my current project though, Dimension Wars. I think he's more of jumping into a situation where he has to feel things out and get a good handle on the mess in the room before deciding how and where to start cleaning it up. Problem is finding out if the washer works, if there is enough drawer and closet space to pick up this mess and make it look somewhat orderly. I'm willing to wait and see. I doubt it'll get me to do much more than watch the show though. We are past animosity and on to apathy. Both have their good and bad.

Dimensional Warfare
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0VSNzmthd1vVlVfU3BadVd2MVk 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

 n815e wrote:
Yay for an entire table of the lifted knee battloid.
Oh you!
A few cuts, some green stuff, a cut limb here and there repositioned... a project just begging to teach new people the skillsets for modifying models!
Though envisioning a Super-veritech chorus line / kick line seems epic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mike1975 wrote:
I think he's more of jumping into a situation where he has to feel things out and get a good handle on the mess in the room before deciding how and where to start cleaning it up. Problem is finding out if the washer works, if there is enough drawer and closet space to pick up this mess and make it look somewhat orderly.
This parallelism can go without end and seem ridiculous.
How do you start cleaning a "mess" years in the making?
Heck, the "maid" will be wondering how they will be paid along with the other contractors needed to remedy the mess.
All the while, the "homeowner" continues to add to the mess further complicating the action plans made.
Then there is the added complication of trying to clean around the horded belongings (retail stock).
Lastly, the owner has this crazy notion of turning the lights off to save power which really complicates "cleaning" efforts.

Yeah, I think I beat that to death pretty good and there is still room to run with it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/28 14:52:12


A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Probably the hardest part for the Moto-Scooter is getting a straight answer out of Unca Kevayne that they've been lying for three years and have had their thumbs up each other's butts for the past three years regarding progress and that all the funds are gone. Then he has the hard decision of keeping up the charade and tarring his career prospects for the future or coming clean about the situation so that he can honestly start over. Course Scotty is beholden to Unca Kevvy for a paycheck so I doubt any transparency is on its way down the pipeline. Kevster will basically tell Scott to shut up and quit bothering him about Robotech and tell those bastiche backers that 'we are working on it'.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





 Mike1975 wrote:
No Scott is not the new owner. I was curious and sent him an email. Once you know the email of one you can pretty well guess the emails for everyone else. I did talk to him briefly and he does give me a glimmer of hope, although I will wait to see what the update says in July...


Wait. Someone at Palladium actually replied to an email?
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

 Desmodus wrote:
 Mike1975 wrote:
No Scott is not the new owner. I was curious and sent him an email. Once you know the email of one you can pretty well guess the emails for everyone else. I did talk to him briefly and he does give me a glimmer of hope, although I will wait to see what the update says in July...


Wait. Someone at Palladium actually replied to an email?


They'll reply if you aren't asking for refunds .

Mike had a working relation with them for a short bit, so I can see him being able to have a discourse much easier than the average backer could drum up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 n815e wrote:
Yay for an entire table of the lifted knee battloid.



A full table of monoposes beats an empty table any day. But, it isn't like they couldn't have three poses or such for the battloid, sort of like what we have now...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/28 16:10:01


It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Innocent SDF-1 Bridge Bunny






I would hobestly rather have the mini models over single pose pvc figs. Neither is ideal though.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




GOOD NEWS! You only have to wait six more days for the answer!

Or, possibly, a newer, more polite version of "STFU, Peasants!".
   
Made in us
Knight of the Inner Circle






Merijeek wrote:

Or, possibly, a newer, more polite version of "STFU, Peasants!".


I am sure that is what we will get; the plan is to keep this up until the statuette of limitations happens..
They are dragging their feet for a reason... I am sure there is a legal reason or loop hole to keep the money from the kickstarter
without completing it.. but for right now they just got to keep saying they are doing their job.. that's it..


 
   
Made in us
Inexperienced VF-1A Valkyrie Brownie






A full table of monoposes beats an empty table any day. But, it isn't like they couldn't have three poses or such for the battloid, sort of like what we have now...


I realize we all have different opinions.
Personally, I'm not interested in filling a table with garbage miniatures or garbage terrain.
If one-piece, low quality junk was promised during the kickstarter, they wouldn't have gotten my money, despite my love of Robotech. Gumball machines across the world are filled with cheap mech miniatures. I'm not rushing with quarters to get those, I'm definitely not paying premium prices for them.

I know this is a minority view here, but I don't mind putting the models together. They could have done them better, they made some pretty bad choices on breakdown, but putting models together is an activity I enjoy.
The end result is decent, if fragile in parts.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Desmodus wrote:
 Mike1975 wrote:
No Scott is not the new owner. I was curious and sent him an email. Once you know the email of one you can pretty well guess the emails for everyone else. I did talk to him briefly and he does give me a glimmer of hope, although I will wait to see what the update says in July...


Wait. Someone at Palladium actually replied to an email?


I emailed him directly. It wasn't hard. Once you have one email you can guess the others. I spoke to him briefly and wished him luck but also will reserve judgement until July 4 and the update. I did send him some stuff that I had already sent PB way back when Jeff was there. None of it new to most of you. My name is one had for good and evil over there and I like it that way. I'm still keeping Dimensional Warfare going and nothing is going to get me to jump back on board with PB but I have no problem sending Scott stuff I had already done and explaining why I decided to break ties and he seemed to understand completely. I can understand the situation he's in just starting a new role myself and in something that I have little previous experience with.

Dimensional Warfare
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0VSNzmthd1vVlVfU3BadVd2MVk 
   
Made in us
Shocked Micronized Zentraedi Spy



Shelby Twp. Michigan

 n815e wrote:
A full table of monoposes beats an empty table any day. But, it isn't like they couldn't have three poses or such for the battloid, sort of like what we have now...


I realize we all have different opinions.
Personally, I'm not interested in filling a table with garbage miniatures or garbage terrain.
If one-piece, low quality junk was promised during the kickstarter, they wouldn't have gotten my money, despite my love of Robotech. Gumball machines across the world are filled with cheap mech miniatures. I'm not rushing with quarters to get those, I'm definitely not paying premium prices for them.

I know this is a minority view here, but I don't mind putting the models together. They could have done them better, they made some pretty bad choices on breakdown, but putting models together is an activity I enjoy.
The end result is decent, if fragile in parts.

Look the problem with Kev and PB or who ever was the inner circle of this great debacle. They went the cheapest route with minis because they (PB) wanted the money in their pockets. Minis were going to be your make or brake of the part of this game and they failed . The funny part is I don't hear or read about any complaints on the Zentraedi Battle pods , only the recon pod with the small parts. Me that no problem . The BIG PROBLEM was what they did to UNSPACY Mecha well we all know what happen there. Scotty is got this problem now , will see what come of it . I was on the RTT KS Forum site and like how some one over there is posting it all HG fault for this Failed KS. Really I find that funny because they (HG) can pull the license from PB and it game over for PB. Then again who in the Gaming company out there will want this dumpster fire of an IP? Well I don't know what going to happen now but wait until after Gen Con and the July 4 RTT KS update. Later P.S. Thanks Mike1975 for your post and the e-mail to Scott on this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/29 18:23:50


 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Cheapest route? I think it's even worse than that - I think in their quest to keep as much funds for themselves they actually got boondoggled with whoever made the UEDF forces mecha.

As for HG, they obviously don't care who they license the IP out to as long as someone's willing to give them a check. It's not like companies are beating down their door for a 30-year old IP that rightfully belongs to another company anyways.

I've learned a lot over the past few years of this KS. I just wish I had heard of gashapon before this KS came out, I would have instead invested in those and bought a couple of Mospeada Legios and Beta models insteading of investing in this fail.

It never ends well 
   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

Regarding the figures; I think there's reasonable gray space between "22 parts for a single 1.5 inch tall figure" and "single piece garbage".

There are ways the figures could have been *better* without needing to be *perfect*, and the lauded (alleged) goals of perfection are where PB has shown themselves to often get lost in the weeds.

I don't think anyone here wants gaktacular gak covered in an extra helping of gak, nor did we necessarily *need* 105% detail when they probably could've gotten 90-95% there with 1/2 the parts count.

Hindsight is 20/20, but I don't think it's worthy of kudos to have overdesigned figures that failed to acquire a user base.

Again, let's stay out of the extremes and recognize there's reasonable levels of discourse in between them. They failed to appreciate the market they were getting into, and somewhere along the line they locked themselves into these shenanigans.

Obviously this is a purely hypothetical exercise, with caveats and "IF" applied liberally, but I don't think it does us much good to have so little imagination (or so much anal retentiveness) to assume that "Perfect" and "Gak" are the only possible outcomes here, especially with such a subjective matter as this one.

But let's be real, if they'd managed to do the VT's in half the parts count with minimal reduction in detail or poseability, it's not like anyone would've been put out to need to spend less time making them, right? Like, it's a hobby, but 'busy work for the sake of busy work' misses the forest for the trees.
   
Made in us
Shocked Micronized Zentraedi Spy



Shelby Twp. Michigan

Well the minis could have been done with half part count and still have a decent detail. Who ever over at PB or ND thought this was the best route I don't know or some one in China told them (PB) to go this route. Well right now there is a lot of core set sitting in PB warehouse. Wave 2 is still not here and I don't think it will come. PB needs to do something or they WILL NOT HAVE A FUTURE because of this KS. We remember.
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




Talizvar,

Over on one of the Update comments, you posit a plan that I think needs addressing.

That PB should do runs of some of the currently delinquent miniatures, for retail, and that it cycle those profits to do more, until the entire line is complete, and they can afford to ship to backers. If I've misinterpreted your plan, please clarify, and I'll retract this post.

While I understand the argument you're trying to make, it's glossing over several HUGE flaws.

First, is timing. Assuming it takes 4 cycles to get everything completed, you're looking at at least 6 months per cycle, to pay for the second with the profits from the first, the third with profits from the second, etc. So you're looking at +24 months for them to have the funds to produce the backer's run. You mention backers not being happy if retail gets it first. If they're getting it first by a matter of weeks or a month, that's one thing. If it's at retail 18-24 months before backers, it'll be so much worse.

Second, is funding. Where is the initial seed money coming from? If it comes from any remaining Kickstarter funds, that's arguably a huge issue. If it's coming from PB's business funds, that'd be less egregious. But then you've got to consider the marketplace. How big a print run do they do? The more made, the cheaper per item. But if they don't make a certain minimum amount, they're going to lose money on fixed operational costs. But would the market be there, for it to be profitable? People calculated that there were ~10,000 retail Cores made. It's been almost 3 years of retail sales (including significant discounting), and it's pretty clear that they've never had to restock. Sales at retailers appear to be anemic. The GenCon Tourney still hasn't hit minimum target levels. So would a print run in sufficient numbers to return the initial costs and make enough profit to fund the second cycle actually pay off?

Third, is trust. Given the obfuscation and lies that have come out of PB since the campaign funded, would you trust that any profits that did happen, would be rolled back into this campaign? It's been speculated that PB used Kickstarter funds to pay PB operational costs. And this has not to my knowledge ever been directly denied (they denied spending it on extravagences, but seemed to want to dance around denial of operational/retail spending). I think a lot of people would be skeptical that refinancing the Kickstarter in this way would have the money go where it should. The lack of transparency that PB has in this regard speaks volumes.

Again, I understand that you're trying to think outside the box to get a resolution. But I don't see this working. Because I simply don't think the market is there to reinvest, and I think it'd piss off even more backers. A small minority might be willing to buy expansions at retail, but the rest are just going to fume. And speculation and suspicion will run rampant, as PB continue to be secretive about the process. There's something to be said for entropy into apathy. Reminding people that they've been screwed over for 4+ years, would be worse than doing nothing.

And while it's theoretically possible that this could work out, and all backers get everything they're owed, I think the chances of that are less than PB investing the same funds they'd use for "cycle one" into lottery tickets and hoping they win the jackpot. While yourself and several others are committed to expanding the game by making your own product, and spending more, I think you're woefully overestimating the market remaining for this game. It's apparent lack of success at retail is proof enough.
   
Made in us
Inexperienced VF-1A Valkyrie Brownie






Look the problem with Kev and PB or who ever was the inner circle of this great debacle. They went the cheapest route with minis because they (PB) wanted the money in their pockets.


Not the cheapest route, necessarily, but a route that was far cheaper than it should have been.

I have no doubt that they would have gone cheaper if they weren't restricted by what they promised and what they didn't know.
I have a genuine fear that they will send us wave 2 as cheaply as possible, with poorly cast, soft plastic junk in single poses that melt when you touch them.

I'm being extreme here for comedic effect, but I am afraid of what we'll get.
   
Made in us
Knight of the Inner Circle






Was just looking at the latest update.. and Kevin is still writing them. Not Scott the guy hired for social media.. but the good news is there is no update for
Robotech tactics.. I guess he will leave that to Scott to report on the kick-starter page..

One thing I did notice was their new tumblers, they are NOT microwave safe or dishwasher safe... And you still pay $30..
So I can go get the same type cup at Wal mart for $7 that IS microwave safe and dishwasher safe.. Oh...forgot
those are only for super fans..

But again.. my question is where is the money coming from?? The kick-starter money should have dried up by now and with no
new major game that came out that is flying off the shelves .. Where is the new driving force money coming from??

 
   
Made in au
Unteroffizier



Los Angeles

Maybe its coming out of staff wages? Or more likely theyre lending it to kevin because they dont really need all that money for stuff like you know rent and food.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



chi-town/usa

Genoside07, old Kev is WAY too proud of his IP, and super cheap so of course those fancy cups aren't safe for anything. I doubt they're safe for holding water.

As for his new bestie Scott, I think the poor dude is screwed. He opened up sounding professional, but still used the tried and true "waiting on quote" bs so I'm not really listening to anything the guy puts up with out actual proof they've done something. Have a good weekend, try not to think about the dumpster fire that is RRT as for myself I'll be throwing money at other games that are supported by their creators.
   
Made in us
Expendable Defender Destroid Rookie





Technically, they could actually be waiting on a quote this time.

PB has cried wolf before so hard to tell.
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

Morgan Vening wrote:
Talizvar,
Over on one of the Update comments, you posit a plan that I think needs addressing.
Spoiler:

That PB should do runs of some of the currently delinquent miniatures, for retail, and that it cycle those profits to do more, until the entire line is complete, and they can afford to ship to backers. If I've misinterpreted your plan, please clarify, and I'll retract this post.

While I understand the argument you're trying to make, it's glossing over several HUGE flaws.

First, is timing. Assuming it takes 4 cycles to get everything completed, you're looking at at least 6 months per cycle, to pay for the second with the profits from the first, the third with profits from the second, etc. So you're looking at +24 months for them to have the funds to produce the backer's run. You mention backers not being happy if retail gets it first. If they're getting it first by a matter of weeks or a month, that's one thing. If it's at retail 18-24 months before backers, it'll be so much worse.

Second, is funding. Where is the initial seed money coming from? If it comes from any remaining Kickstarter funds, that's arguably a huge issue. If it's coming from PB's business funds, that'd be less egregious. But then you've got to consider the marketplace. How big a print run do they do? The more made, the cheaper per item. But if they don't make a certain minimum amount, they're going to lose money on fixed operational costs. But would the market be there, for it to be profitable? People calculated that there were ~10,000 retail Cores made. It's been almost 3 years of retail sales (including significant discounting), and it's pretty clear that they've never had to restock. Sales at retailers appear to be anemic. The GenCon Tourney still hasn't hit minimum target levels. So would a print run in sufficient numbers to return the initial costs and make enough profit to fund the second cycle actually pay off?

Third, is trust. Given the obfuscation and lies that have come out of PB since the campaign funded, would you trust that any profits that did happen, would be rolled back into this campaign? It's been speculated that PB used Kickstarter funds to pay PB operational costs. And this has not to my knowledge ever been directly denied (they denied spending it on extravagences, but seemed to want to dance around denial of operational/retail spending). I think a lot of people would be skeptical that refinancing the Kickstarter in this way would have the money go where it should. The lack of transparency that PB has in this regard speaks volumes.

Again, I understand that you're trying to think outside the box to get a resolution. But I don't see this working. Because I simply don't think the market is there to reinvest, and I think it'd piss off even more backers. A small minority might be willing to buy expansions at retail, but the rest are just going to fume. And speculation and suspicion will run rampant, as PB continue to be secretive about the process. There's something to be said for entropy into apathy. Reminding people that they've been screwed over for 4+ years, would be worse than doing nothing.

And while it's theoretically possible that this could work out, and all backers get everything they're owed, I think the chances of that are less than PB investing the same funds they'd use for "cycle one" into lottery tickets and hoping they win the jackpot. While yourself and several others are committed to expanding the game by making your own product, and spending more, I think you're woefully overestimating the market remaining for this game. It's apparent lack of success at retail is proof enough.
Many good points but I thought I made it clear the "assumptions" made for the proposed plan.
I have no illusions that market "demand" would be quite low which is to be rectified by their "relaunch" right?
I know, trying not to giggle here.
Yes, it will take forever to finally get it done and again I say: this changes the present timeline how?
As you stated, PB staying the course would be better.
Personal response to that is I will and shall write them off and never buy from them again, ever.
Any effort showing demonstrable efforts resulting in some product would be better in my mind.
They already set the precedent with the pewter products they are selling (not rewards mind, but parallel product all the same.)
You gave a lot of thought on problems with what I outlined and I appreciate that.
Would you have a plan to counter propose?
Palladium closing it's doors was another option which seemed more realistic.
It is because I pretty much now have what I wanted that I feel I can look at this mess with a more open mind.
Other than PB still wrongfully made off with my money, if this is to be the PB genuinely trying to finish: they have few options in front of them.

(edit) Ah, assuming you were posting as James E.: it is established you want no doubt of there being no wave2. It could have been stated without personal attacks: it undermines the integrity of your reasoning. As to underestimating the market? Put out the Super Veritech and the Armored Valk. kits and see what happens. Battletech has also floated this pipe-dream as well. It is not much, but it helps.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/02 12:26:42


A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




 Talizvar wrote:
Spoiler:
Morgan Vening wrote:
Talizvar,
Over on one of the Update comments, you posit a plan that I think needs addressing.[spoiler]
That PB should do runs of some of the currently delinquent miniatures, for retail, and that it cycle those profits to do more, until the entire line is complete, and they can afford to ship to backers. If I've misinterpreted your plan, please clarify, and I'll retract this post.

While I understand the argument you're trying to make, it's glossing over several HUGE flaws.

First, is timing. Assuming it takes 4 cycles to get everything completed, you're looking at at least 6 months per cycle, to pay for the second with the profits from the first, the third with profits from the second, etc. So you're looking at +24 months for them to have the funds to produce the backer's run. You mention backers not being happy if retail gets it first. If they're getting it first by a matter of weeks or a month, that's one thing. If it's at retail 18-24 months before backers, it'll be so much worse.

Second, is funding. Where is the initial seed money coming from? If it comes from any remaining Kickstarter funds, that's arguably a huge issue. If it's coming from PB's business funds, that'd be less egregious. But then you've got to consider the marketplace. How big a print run do they do? The more made, the cheaper per item. But if they don't make a certain minimum amount, they're going to lose money on fixed operational costs. But would the market be there, for it to be profitable? People calculated that there were ~10,000 retail Cores made. It's been almost 3 years of retail sales (including significant discounting), and it's pretty clear that they've never had to restock. Sales at retailers appear to be anemic. The GenCon Tourney still hasn't hit minimum target levels. So would a print run in sufficient numbers to return the initial costs and make enough profit to fund the second cycle actually pay off?

Third, is trust. Given the obfuscation and lies that have come out of PB since the campaign funded, would you trust that any profits that did happen, would be rolled back into this campaign? It's been speculated that PB used Kickstarter funds to pay PB operational costs. And this has not to my knowledge ever been directly denied (they denied spending it on extravagences, but seemed to want to dance around denial of operational/retail spending). I think a lot of people would be skeptical that refinancing the Kickstarter in this way would have the money go where it should. The lack of transparency that PB has in this regard speaks volumes.

Again, I understand that you're trying to think outside the box to get a resolution. But I don't see this working. Because I simply don't think the market is there to reinvest, and I think it'd piss off even more backers. A small minority might be willing to buy expansions at retail, but the rest are just going to fume. And speculation and suspicion will run rampant, as PB continue to be secretive about the process. There's something to be said for entropy into apathy. Reminding people that they've been screwed over for 4+ years, would be worse than doing nothing.

And while it's theoretically possible that this could work out, and all backers get everything they're owed, I think the chances of that are less than PB investing the same funds they'd use for "cycle one" into lottery tickets and hoping they win the jackpot. While yourself and several others are committed to expanding the game by making your own product, and spending more, I think you're woefully overestimating the market remaining for this game. It's apparent lack of success at retail is proof enough.
Many good points but I thought I made it clear the "assumptions" made for the proposed plan.
I have no illusions that market "demand" would be quite low which is to be rectified by their "relaunch" right?
I know, trying not to giggle here.
Yes, it will take forever to finally get it done and again I say: this changes the present timeline how?
As you stated, PB staying the course would be better.
Personal response to that is I will and shall write them off and never buy from them again, ever.
Any effort showing demonstrable efforts resulting in some product would be better in my mind.
They already set the precedent with the pewter products they are selling (not rewards mind, but parallel product all the same.)
You gave a lot of thought on problems with what I outlined and I appreciate that.
Would you have a plan to counter propose?
Palladium closing it's doors was another option which seemed more realistic.
It is because I pretty much now have what I wanted that I feel I can look at this mess with a more open mind.
Other than PB still wrongfully made off with my money, if this is to be the PB genuinely trying to finish: they have few options in front of them.

(edit) Ah, assuming you were posting as James E.: it is established you want no doubt of there being no wave2. It could have been stated without personal attacks: it undermines the integrity of your reasoning. As to underestimating the market? Put out the Super Veritech and the Armored Valk. kits and see what happens. Battletech has also floated this pipe-dream as well. It is not much, but it helps.[/spoiler]
For starters, I'm not James. Just wanted to get that out of the way. I don't respond (or at least try not to) on the Kickstarter commentary. But I wanted to address your points, and I know you're a regular here.

Yes, SValk and AValk would probably be the most profitable of the unreleased items, though you'ld probably have to pair up the FPA or MPA with a UEDF one, as all reports I've read have Zentradi being fairly standard in army composition and gameplay, and giving UEDF more toys just makes trying to push the game more difficult. In addition, that'd require several things going right that PB have shown to be incapable of. I think the market for 30-40 piece Crusaders and Phoenix Hawks would be quite limited. And it still runs into the PR issue of "backers first". Some people are going to be very vocal if they're screwed on that again.

As for a counterproposal, I have one. But it'd never happen. Because it risks destroying Kevin's perception of just how unpopular he, his company and this game is. And it'd also require him to be honest. And he's not shown much capacity for that.
First, would be an assessment of how much liquid capital is remaining, and an accounting of where the funds have been spent, for Kickstarter related expenses (no, advertising and stock purchases for retail consumption DO NOT COUNT). If there's nothing left, then he needs to close his doors, liquidate all assets, and refund to the best of your ability. Because nothing can be done.
Second, a plan on how to complete the Kickstarter as listed, with reasonable cost breakdowns, from design to production to freight to shipping, shown to backers, so that people can have confidence that completion is achievable. And this needs to be convincing, because...
Third, calculate a reasonable pro-rata'd refund rate, and allow backers to opt-in. Similarly, allow anyone with confidence to be able to buy out pledges (this would be done as a passthrough, and NOT PB collecting money). If there's not sufficient uptake to hurt the amount needed to produce (hey, I'm not the one who's claimed it's only a handful of backers that are unhappy), then those people get out, and production begins. Else, see the latter part of the first point. This might be seen as a step too far, but it's been more than 4 years of jackassery. And it'll be even by Scott's optimistic guideline, 4 years late.

Simply put, it requires PB to be open, honest, accepting of criticism, and willing to put their responsibilities above their own personal needs. But if Kevin has the faith in his backers and supporters, and they have the faith in him, that he claims, it'd be the right thing to do.

So... ball's in his court. I bet he trips over it.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/07/02 21:30:00


 
   
 
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