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**Alpharius**

Isn't today the day for Scott's 11th (non)Update?

What time do they usually drop?

**Forar**

I don't see an obvious timestamp on Kickstarter (datestamp, yes, but not an exact time), nor does it seem to exist on the comments themselves (I went back and checked to see if the initial comments had one either).

If that info is available on the platform, it doesn't seem to be shown to users easily by default.

If anyone gets emailed editions, that'd probably be a bit more accurate, but off the cuff I'd say 'late afternoon or into the evening, EST'. If it lands today, I'd expect it in the next 6 hours or less.

Not that it'll contain anything of value, but the question was 'when', and that's all that is coming to me at the moment.

**Morgan Vening**

To follow up on Forar's post, the Update following his personal emergency issue was on Wednesday, ~6:30pm, his last one was Tuesday, ~10:15pm. Prior to that, his scheduled Updates have been (from 1st through 8th, +/- 15m) 9pm, 1:30pm, 6:15pm, 5pm, 9:15pm, 3:30pm, 5pm, and 4pm, all Tuesdays.

So all in all, a half have been during business hours, and half have been early to late evening.

I still get the emails (and just looked at the timestamps), because I'm technically still a backer.

And yeah, I'm not expecting anything of value either.

EDIT: All times and dates above are US EDT, the timezone PB is located in. So adjust accordingly. Of course, if Scott didn't relocate (and there's no evidence he did), he's posting an hour earlier, local time.

**Seawolf**

Well... if your expectations for nothing of substance from Scott, then you will not be disappointed. I think the bar needs to be set lower.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/2044863

**Morgan Vening**

Seawolf wrote:
Well... if your expectations for nothing of substance from Scott, then you will not be disappointed. I think the bar needs to be set lower.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/2044863

Yeah, that's pretty abysmal.

Judicious use of paraphrasing below, but here's a summary...
"There's been a problem with emails regarding feedback for the Force Orgs! We fixed it!"
Note, there's no numbers there. I'd be curious how many legitimate emails they received, given as I've said in an earlier post, there's almost no actual changes to discuss. And he's already aware it looks incomplete.

"SDF bases are almost done! Should have something to show next Update!"
Goes out of his way to point out that feedback changed things, and he recieved images but chose not to show them because they need to be fixed more. Because with PB, it's perfect, or it's not good enough. Showing what the changes were on the new ones, and what the things that need changing are, would show a sense of actual work. As it stands, it could easily be interpreted that NOTHING has been done, and they've just kicked the can two more weeks.

"Last week's 'one weekend only' sale has been extended another weekend!"
Yeah, ~100 sales (of varying sizes) at closeout prices is simply NOT a bragging point. Hey, you know what PB were able to get in a month, back in May, 2013? 5000+ Customers averaging ~$250 apiece. Now THAT was something to crow about. And this kind of gak, extending sales due to "mass outpouring of sentiment" started with their use of CGB's, completely undercuts any reason to buy at MSRP. because you know there's going to be extended heavy discounts soon.

**Genoside07**

I would think working on the Monster Miniature would make them more money.. Seemed like everyone I know
that back RTT ordered one.. and if the did a decent job on it.. I think others seeing it would buy it.

But they are working on bases.. And how many versions is there?? The work being done could be knocked
out in less than an hour from a intermediate experienced artist..

I don't know why this shouldn't surprise us, Christmas update will come out saying will be we better
hurry and buy the palladium mystery gift box before the sale ends...

What happens when Kevin's lawyer figures out a way of working around the limit of restitution.
Then he walks away free... Not many game stores carry his stuff now... fear of the same thing with them
will not help future sales.

**Alpharius**

Wow.

Update #213

Nov 14 2017

My Eleventh Update - New Feedback Email and Bases Sent for Corrections

33 Comments

Like
5 likes
Hi all, Scott here.
Force Org Charts Feedback and Change of Email Address

I became aware a few days ago that only some of the e-mails being sent to the feedback@ e-mail address were getting through. Unfortunately it appears that several (we don't know the exact number) never made it to my account. As part of the fix for this problem, we have set up a new e-mail account - rrt-rules[at]palladiumbooks[dot]com - and have tested it many times over the past couple days to make sure everything gets through (it does).

How do I find out if my e-mail got through? There is a simple way to know if your e-mail got through to me or not - I have sent a thank you reply to every one that I have received. If you did not get an e-mail back from me thanking you for your feed back, please check your spam filter first to make sure it didn't get caught there. If not, then please send it again. My apologies for the trouble.

And again, thank you to everyone who has sent in their thoughts regarding the Force Organization Charts. Please feel free to send in more thoughts and ideas as you can.

SDF-1 Bases

I received screenshots of the new SDF-1 bases yesterday, but not all of the changes that I'd asked for (which were based on your feedback) had been made. I have spoken with the artist and he assures me that he will have the corrections done by the time of the next update.

Final Thoughts

A big thank you to everyone who ordered RRT-related items (over 100 sales ranging from dice packs to full box sets) through the special sale of Robotech® (all RRT and Robotech® RPG items 50% off) on our website this last weekend. Because the sale was such a success, and many people wanted it to continue, it will be offered again this weekend.

Speaking of thanks, I want to give my warmest wishes to every one of you who will be celebrating Thanksgiving next week. May you have a great and safe holiday filled with love and gratitude.

I'll be back again in two weeks, November 28th.

Have they decided to not even pretend to work on Wave 2 anymore?

Or...if Wave 2 isn't mentioned, everyone will...forget that it is still owed?

**Morgan Vening**

Genoside07 wrote:
I would think working on the Monster Miniature would make them more money.. Seemed like everyone I know
that back RTT ordered one.. and if the did a decent job on it.. I think others seeing it would buy it.

I'm not sure this one is true, from a financial perspective. Sure, a lot of people got one, but I don't think the average was there. There were ~6000 base boxes pledged for. I ordered 8, but only one Monster. I believe Forar ordered 8, but only 3 Monsters. And there would be a fair amount of backers who got just the minimum. So let's say it's 4000 ordered. At $40 each, that's $160K. Take off KS fees, and that's down to $144K.

Given the size of the Monster, it's going to be at LEAST 3, if not 4 sprues. IIRC, a mold came in at about $15-$20K. PB said prices increased significantly. So that's probably putting it in the $80-$100K range. Add another $10K for all the other auxilliary expenses (design, production run, boxes, freight), and you're looking at a reasonable margin on the plus side there. But you need to account for the duality of pricing. Even if I'm right, and Monsters accounted for 10% of the funding, the way in which the Kickstarter ran, with regards the stretch goals, it doesn't account for 10% of the expenses. For example, let's look at when the Monster was released. It unlocked at $325K. From an arbitrary perspective, you add $160K to that, it means everything unlocked that was added to the Battlecry has to come out of that funding. It means that any paid purchase unlocked that didn't get several thousand backers adding to their pledge, means it has to be subsidised by the money added to Monsters.

So, at best, they break even because of Kickstarter backers, and IMO probably make a loss. in the $10-$50K range. So they need to make that back at retail. Assuming they make $40 on each retail at $60MSRP, that's 250-1250 needed to break even. Their hugely successful weekend sale netted them 100 customers. There will be a glut on the market if backers get theirs (and a fething apocalypse on the internet if they don't). Don't forget to factor in shipping costs for at least all US backers as an expense. How many people will buy an overengineered centrepiece model for a game that's all but dead, that haven't already bought one as a backer, or don't purchase from a backer?

At BEST, I can't see even the top line models (Monster, FPA, MPA, SValk, AValk) making much more than a token profit after all expenses, even including retail sales. And the stuff that isn't likely to have been invested in as heavily, that they'd still owe? Specifically Ghosts, Lancers, Gnerls, ZInf? Forgeddabowdit.

PB are in a world of gak even if they didn't misuse/misspend Kickstarter funds. More so if they did. Doing this piecemeal dooms completion to failure. And from PB's perspective, staving off failure is all they have left.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:
Wow.
Update #213

*snip*
Have they decided to not even pretend to work on Wave 2 anymore?

Or...if Wave 2 isn't mentioned, everyone will...forget that it is still owed?

To quote the little latin girl in the taco commercial, "Why not both?"

I checked back, there were renders 7 weeks ago, but those were for resins, so are a domestic, not international concern. It was 9 weeks ago that he last mentioned Wave 2 and quotes. So that's been 4 consecutive "official Tuesday" Updates that haven't mentioned it at all.

Here's what was said.

The Meetings with the Manufacturers at Gen Con

Because people asked - Gen Con went very well for Palladium on a number of fronts. With regard to RRT Wave 2, we spoke with representatives of several manufacturers and reviewed samples of their work. We are now awaiting refined quotes as we were able to discuss what we want to accomplish with Wave Two. That included confirming with them the level of detail that we are seeking to preserve while reducing part counts.

All in all, the meetings went very well and hopefully we will be making a selection on a manufacturer to move forward with very soon.

So I guess Scott's definition of "soon" and Kevin's definition of "soon" are compatible.

**n815e**

These updates read like Scott has checked out.

**Morgan Vening**

n815e wrote:
These updates read like Scott has checked out.

Yup. Ever since his absence, there's a distinct lack of giving a crap. I mean, it's not like there's been a significant drop in terms of actual news, but the effort to disguise that fact seems to be getting less and less.

Hope he cashed in his Palladium Bucks. Because it looks like he was hired to deflect blame, and add a veneer of credibility. He's still fulfilling the first, but he's completely lost the latter.

I mean, yes, he was ostensibly hired to get RRT (and PB) back on track, but that was obviously bs. Because there was no way Kevin was going to give up control like that. Not for RRT, and especially not for PB. I'd call Kevin a control freak, but that gives more credit than deserved. There's nothing really controlled about Kevin's freak. It's more like a drunk falling down a flight of stairs, over and over again. Some people root for him to finally make it, some people cheer as he falls, and some people just want to see him stop.

**Soul Samurai**

Morgan Vening wrote:
Given the size of the Monster, it's going to be at LEAST 3, if not 4 sprues. IIRC, a mold came in at about $15-$20K. PB said prices increased significantly. So that's probably putting it in the $80-$100K range. Add another $10K for all the other auxilliary expenses (design, production run, boxes, freight), and you're looking at a reasonable margin on the plus side there.

What about metal or resin cast from a 3D print? Since the numbers are small (maybe one monster for, say, every 50 other models at most?) that's probably a much more economical way of doing it, right?

Of course the usual disclaimers apply: I expect nothing from PB, I'm just discussing the technicalities out of curiosity etc.

**Albertorius**

Morgan Vening wrote:
Given the size of the Monster, it's going to be at LEAST 3, if not 4 sprues. IIRC, a mold came in at about $15-$20K. PB said prices increased significantly.

Actually, nowadays you can get sprue molds made for as little as 3-5k, depending on size.

**Alpharius**

Morgan Vening wrote:
n815e wrote:
These updates read like Scott has checked out.

Yup. Ever since his absence, there's a distinct lack of giving a crap. I mean, it's not like there's been a significant drop in terms of actual news, but the effort to disguise that fact seems to be getting less and less.

Hope he cashed in his Palladium Bucks. Because it looks like he was hired to deflect blame, and add a veneer of credibility. He's still fulfilling the first, but he's completely lost the latter.

Exactly!

If nothing else, just look at the 'quality' and/or just actual length of his updates as we've gone from 1 to 11 - he certainly hasn't turned it up to 11 here!

**Stormonu**

I'm wondering if its worth sending another letter to the Michigan AG. It's been two years since the last one, with no movement on this KS at all.

Anyone want to help me word it? I would like it sound reasonable and factual, and not be an emotional rant.

Here's the text of the old letter:

Spoiler:

**Morgan Vening**

Stormonu,

Just some suggestions. I'd remove any ambiguity. Example, The amount raised during the backerkit is irrelevant for your argument, so I'd drop it (even though Wayne said it was about what they paid in Kickstarter fees). Just keep with the hard facts, that $1.44M was raised.

In the breakdown of the timeline, strip it down to it's simplest form, using bullet points. I'd also add in at the start the original timeframe (7 months), and each step the time in excess (10 months past the original estimate, for the bulk shipping of Wave 1). A lot of dates makes things get lost, and the delay (now 3 years, 11 months past the original estimate) brings it into relief.

Obviously, you would want to expand the timeline of the events that have occured since you wrote it, with 2016 and 2017 also being "the year of Robotech".

I'd also cut out all the information on PB's prior business practice. Maybe a single concise statement mentioning it, and an offer to provide more detail if requested. Because it's a completely different issue, as late releases of books aren't (for the most part) paid in advance, and that's the key here.

I'd also expand on their refund policy. That's a key issue here, and when paired with their refusal to give any kind of estimate as to the time, is where, if held to the standards of wire fraud, they'd be found guilty. You want to make sure that it looks close enough to an actual crime, that the AG can draw parallels. Happy to provide a copy of a refund refusal if you don't already have one. Though I wouldn't put it in verbatim. Like the para above, a short statement that you can provide an example if requested, is sufficient.

You want to provide information, but anything not 100% pertinent, you want to keep as "I can expand on this if you want". It needs to be as direct and to the point as you can make it.

**evancich**

Yeah, I wouldn't write the letter like that...

Dear _____,

I am writing to you in the hope that you take action against Palladium Books, which I believe fraudulently misused funds.

Palladium Books, Inc.
39074 Webb Court
Westland, MI 48185 (Wayne County)
Phone: 734-721-2900

Palladium Books successfully completed their Robotech RPG Tactics Kickstarter on May 20, 2013. This kickstarter was aimed to produce a tabletop wargame with miniature figures based on a popular sci-fi cartoon series from the 80's known as "Robotech". The kickstarter raised $1,442,312 among 5,342 international backers.

At the time of completion, the original estimated shipping date was December of 2013. As of 11-15-2017, all 5,342 (is this true???) have not received their entire order. On January 30, 2014 - a month after the initial, original shipping date was missed - Palladium Books announced to the kickstarter backers that the items would be split into two waves, with a shipping date of May/June 2014. However, due to a number of issues, the majority of shipping of wave 1 did not actually begin until October 2, 2014. Europe was shipped their Wave One products by sea on or around Jan 21, 2015. Australia was shipped their Wave One products by sea around "Rest of the World" was shipped their Wave One products on May 13, 2015 .

Since the shipping of Wave One items began, backers have been asking for information on the status of the Wave Two items. On June 6, 2015 the backers were given a tenative release date for Wave Two of "The end of 2015". Since that time, all information about Robotech Tactics has been for items NOT a part of the "rewards" and items purchased in the original Kickstarter, with continual promises of a forthcoming Wave Two update.

It is my belief that the funds for Wave One have been depleted and Palladium lacks the remaining funds - or ability to secure funding to cover the cost of Wave Two. Given this it is my belief the company is incapable of admitting they cannot produce Wave Two. And that the company has no intentions of completing their obligations in this transaction.

We urge you to act in the interests of the 5,342 backers to force the hand of Palladium to either produce information to its backers on the current state of all Wave Two items and the feasibility of producing Robotech RPG Tactics with a general statement of the company having the financial resources to produce said wave or reasonable proof of intent to secure funds to pay for said Wave Two. We urge you, that should Palladium refuse to provide such information to pursue forcing the company to refund the monetary value of the unproduced items to the backers. Finally, we believe that Paladiuim has criminally misused the funds.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aside from the original letter having spelling errors...

Only put actual true facts in the letter. You don't want the state's attorney to start looking into it and give them an easy out.

The OG letter didn't say why a SG would care. It needs to be criminal or maybe criminal for them to really care.

Sadly, there was likely nothing criminal the Kev did. He spent all of the KS $$$ on other PB stuff (likely) and he can't afford to do it now / doesn't want to throw $$$ at a game that is clearly dead.

Let's say magically we get wave 2 tomorrow. What good is it? It isn't like there is a big player base...

**JohnHwangDD**

Morgan Vening wrote:
Given the size of the Monster, it's going to be at LEAST 3, if not 4 sprues. IIRC, a mold came in at about $15-$20K. PB said prices increased significantly.

Hold on, we're not talking a 40k Knight Titan (3 sprues, cut in-house; 4 if you count the Warden sprue).

PB's problem with the prices is that they're not free. Tooling costs are probably steady, given the expansion of minis gaming today since the time that RRT was originally tooled. IOW, I think PB is lying. As usual.
___

Albertorius wrote:

Actually, nowadays you can get sprue molds made for as little as 3-5k, depending on size.

Consider that a RRT Monster model would only be about the size of a 40k Dreadnought.

Spoiler:

As such, it should comfortably fit on a single 8"x10" sprue. I'd estimate tool cost at $10-15k.

**Morgan Vening**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Consider that a RRT Monster model would only be about the size of a 40k Dreadnought. As such, it should comfortably fit on a single 8"x10" sprue. I'd estimate tool cost at $10-15k.

You're assuming competent design and manufacture, and PB learning from their mistakes in a meaningful way. I think that's a bad bet.

You could have fit twice as many figures on most of the existing sprues, with some proper engineering.

Hell, a proper design on the Battlepod and Valks could have cut the cost of a sprue entirely, by making the bits for Arty Pods, and the VEF/1D on a single snapapart sprue. Hell, there's a lot of things that could have worked if PB didn't dick around.

I fully expect the Monster, if it ever appears, will be overengineered to hell. "It's the only way it can be done."

**JohnHwangDD**

I had expected, and hoped, that the RRT Monster would simply have been a shrunken down version of the 1/200 IMAI kit.

**Morgan Vening**

Is that still in print? Cause it's what, a little under 40% larger than what an accurate scale one is? I wouldn't consider that a dealbreaker.

As long as it fit on an appropriate base... was a base size ever listed for the Monster? 60mm? 80mm?

**Desmodus**

I'd at least Google the name of the DA in Michigan before mailing the letter.

**JohnHwangDD**

It's under Bandai, now, and backordered on HLJ.
https://hlj.com/product/BAN966791

Price is good, though.

**Easy E**

The current Michigan Attorney General is William Duncan "Bill" Schuette- R.

However, he is currently running for Governor.

**Talizvar**

I would be willing to state the obvious here: I am sure William Schuette will have so few cares to give about this issue than I do about Kevin's social life.

**Morgan Vening**

Talizvar wrote:
I would be willing to state the obvious here: I am sure William Schuette will have so few cares to give about this issue than I do about Kevin's social life.

That was my thought too. I don't know the man's individual politics, but a Republican AG going after a local "small business" that's been around for three decades, to service the needs of out-of-state'rs and foreigners, seems a hard ask. Because small businesses are the backbone of the US economy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmp4Urk7mn4&feature=youtu.be&t=23

Especially given his gubernatorial bid, coming down on a small business struggling to stay afloat, would be a distraction he doesn't want. Even a very consumer friendly Democratic AG would be hesitant unless there were several Michigan residents willing to be the standard bearers.

**evilsmurf**

Even nimmy's black vault site has been suspended due to a lack of cash; http://wiki.thedeificnmi.com/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi

**Forar**

evilsmurf wrote:
Even nimmy's black vault site has been suspended due to a lack of cash; http://wiki.thedeificnmi.com/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi

Heh, I seem to recall mentioning that the PB forums are blocked here at work? The work web filter considers them a risky place to visit (can't recall the exact wording, and repeatedly visiting it intentionally seems to be a good way to garner ire from IT), but apparently that apple didn't fall far from the tree with NMI;

**evancich**

uggg...

It lacks fun to talk law with non-lawyers over the 'net.

Yes, the AG couldn't possibly care less. The state's attorney office is the target for this.

Like I said before if you don't know the difference between a circuit court and a district court...

We need to find the the state attorney office for the county court of what ever county PB is in. Send them the letter and follow up with a call a couple days after they get the letter.

This is the district court aka the people's court. We'd get laughed at if we tried to go circuit.

**warboss**

Forar wrote:
evilsmurf wrote:
Even nimmy's black vault site has been suspended due to a lack of cash; http://wiki.thedeificnmi.com/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi

Heh, I seem to recall mentioning that the PB forums are blocked here at work? The work web filter considers them a risky place to visit (can't recall the exact wording, and repeatedly visiting it intentionally seems to be a good way to garner ire from IT), but apparently that apple didn't fall far from the tree with NMI;

Lol, your post at first glance makes it look like your old cookie sig got hacked by Russians and we should expect baked good exposés from Wikileaks soon.

**Forar**

Pft, I wish things were that interesting.

Now, if you'll excuse me, comrades...