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Here are a tone of past commissions rolled out for an epic game!
-Kenny

While it's an impressive collection of models, I'm not a fan at all of the painting. The tanks have no character or individuality to be seen, not even any tiny extra details like pintle weapons or commanders in the hatch.

The paintjob itself is also just lacking in detail, especially in the aircraft. I'm not bashing the quality of the work but it just looks badly placed, like there's extreme shadowing along every panel line, and it just looks too extreme to be realistic. Look at the Thunderhawk, and the jagged shadows on the front edges around the cockpit and hatch: Just looks too cartoon-ish and unrealisitc.

Also the missile launcher on the Praetor is noticeably crooked but given that it's Forge World I doubt there's much you can do with it.

Judging by your gallery images I don't think you are in a position to ridicule Next level's work like that.

timtheheirodule I wholeheartedly agree. Was just browsing various sites to see which community is going to suit me best as I return to the hobby to finish my armies.

Saw this "critique" right away, checked Valkyries' gallery and got so pissed I joined to post this.

Wankerist attitudes like this give terrible impressions of the communities that nurture their posters. I'm thankful someone from here called this out in the meantime.

I personally wouldn't have had such a problem with the post if there was an element of advice or suggested way of improvement. But that was not the case.

I agree with Valkyrie. It is impressive, as he said , but it struggles to have character.. like mass produced.. it is a huge amount of work (no doubt) but it feels the airbrush speed won every argument over artistic content

Agreed, there's a nice way to say everything.

The best advice comes from the true artisans.

It's a big project painted consistently to above tabletop standard. Also has great quality graphics that add heaps.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
The "agreed" was with Tim, looks like I'm off to B&C lol.

Here's the deal kids, the value of your crits is directly related to the quality of your own work,

To add,..try to at the same time not have artificially inflated opinions of anything you've done.

and finally, if you lack the intelligence to make your crits "constructive" in some way, maybe keep your head shut.

/sigh.

I have gave your crap in the past.

and that doesn't really change, but I did love your nids'

The reds and blues on the models are really nice. I love the shading, and feel it is not as stark as the other colours.

timthehierodule -

do you watch movies? Do you have different opinions on different movies?

well, you are in no position to have different opinions on those movies because I doubt your ability to direct a movie, or act in one.


Anyways, ya'll just keep being y'all, and happy wargaming,

-mikey

RULE #1 applies all the time, everywhere, here on Dakka Dakka.

But ESPECIALLY SO here in the Painting Forums.

IF you come across something that appears to break any of the rules of this site, the best course of action is to report it using the MOD ALERT button that is on every post.

Any other response will likely result in...bad things for all involved.

timthehierodule wrote:Judging by your gallery images I don't think you are in a position to ridicule Next level's work like that.

humaneel wrote:timtheheirodule I wholeheartedly agree. Was just browsing various sites to see which community is going to suit me best as I return to the hobby to finish my armies.

Saw this "critique" right away, checked Valkyries' gallery and got so pissed I joined to post this.

Wankerist attitudes like this give terrible impressions of the communities that nurture their posters. I'm thankful someone from here called this out in the meantime.

timthehierodule wrote:Judging by your gallery images I don't think you are in a position to ridicule Next level's work like that.

humaneel wrote:Agreed, there's a nice way to say everything.

The best advice comes from the true artisans.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
The "agreed" was with Tim, looks like I'm off to B&C lol.

Here's the deal kids, the value of your crits is directly related to the quality of your own work,

To add,..try to at the same time not have artificially inflated opinions of anything you've done.

and finally, if you lack the intelligence to make your crits "constructive" in some way, maybe keep your head shut.

/sigh.

So as a bad painter I am not allowed to have an opinion and cannot post in Showcase threads until I improve? I'll contact the Mods to put that in the website rules...

While I agree that if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all, Valkyrie's post was hardly slagging off the painting. It might have been blunt, but not rude. He merely expressed his opinion (which I agree with) on things he didn't like and why he didn't like it/how it could be improved. He even said 'I'm not bashing the quality of the work'! Before replying saying 'he was being a ****, reread the comment neutrally. It can be hard to understand what emotion the message was written in so you should be careful how you read it.

The point of this subforum is for people to post pictures for EVERYONE to see, and then EVERYONE can give personal feedback. I'd hate it if I posted a picture of model(s) I had taken hours to paint and all I got in reply was 'Great' or 'Keep it up'. Now Next Level knows what to improve!

To bring the quality of Valkyrie's painting to the table is also very sub-par. Some people are ashamed of their painting so it doesn't help when people go on about it. There is also a certain arrogance to the comment...

humaneel, as a new user I suggest reading the forum rules. Rule no. 1: be nice to people! I don't want a witty reply to this, I just want you to think about how you would feel in real life if you expressed an opinion about something and someone turned round and shoved back at you and started pointing fun at you. Unfortunately it is all too easy to forget basic morals when behind a computer screen...

/rant

Edit: ninja'ed by a MoD... see how important this is?

I never said anything like bad painters shouldn't post mate.

My opinion is criticism should be constructive and kind in a way that should never appear to ridicule regardless of skill level involved.

Quite the opposite of what you're suggesting.

I think part of the problem for me may actually be with the photography. However, the overall army looks like a cell shaded digital image. Just not a style I am in favor of.

Also, attacking the messenger and not the message is bad form. Saying that you can only criticize someone that is on the same or lower skill level than you is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. That means NO-ONE can criticize movies unless they are movie producers, right?

Also, if you are a 'professional' studio, you are put on a different level of scrutiny. IMHO, if you get paid to paint then you should expect and be prepared for any and all criticism.

The fact you 'got pissed' then ridiculed him for posting what he did based solely off his painting skill suggests otherwise...

While i agree that feedback should ALWAYS be nice, you should read my previous post, paragraph 2

Edit: hit the nail on the head Sick Six!

While I'm at it I should clarify something else I said.

Say I did a painting, Frank Frazetta and the lady from the cornerstore both liked it. I'd value Franks opinion more, that is all.

The way I see this, and I'm just a pleb who wandered in off the street. Kenny posted, his work was rubbished, thus breaking rule #1. Tim and I had his back.

It's not up to you to tell Valkyrie that his feedback is not valued though, it is up to Next Level himself as the painter. I shall be more impartial when he agrees with you.

As I said, Valkyrie didn't 'rubbish' Kenny's work

I agree I shouldn't have ridiculed him back, was not aware of rule #1 at that point.

The way my comments are being escalated chinesewhispers style in realtime is abit dumbfounding.

Now I apparently said "only movie producers can critique movies"? Please see my above post.

timthehierodule wrote:Judging by your gallery images I don't think you are in a position to ridicule Next level's work like that.

humaneel wrote:timtheheirodule I wholeheartedly agree.

You did right there. Tim said it, you agreed 'wholeheartedly'. Or did we misinterpret?

No worries, we all can react extremely to things we see that we don't like the look of. Like me with my first post I guess!

I guess it's a drawing parallels... Though I heard it can be quite hard to make a movie!

Edit: the bottom line is about remembering to treat others as we want to be treated ourselves I guess (getting all Christian here!)

I do see your point,

I still think the first crit was unnecessarily cold though.

That's fine, just make sure your reply to THAT is warmer i.e. be the bigger man (not disrespecting Valkyrie in any way here)

Touche.

They look great. Got any close ups? :-)

 timthehierodule wrote:
Judging by your gallery images I don't think you are in a position to ridicule Next level's work like that.

You don't need to be a professional artist to recognize good or bad work. And the army in the OP is in the second category IMO. It's a classic example of the "look at me I have an airbrush!" style of painting with lots of dramatic shading in every possible spot but no real character or attempt to refine the airbrush work. It might look impressive to people who don't own an airbrush and can't duplicate the style, but I don't think it's professional-level work at all. I certainly wouldn't pay money for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

humaneel wrote:
Kenny posted, his work was rubbished, thus breaking rule #1.

Criticism of painting is not against rule #1. The original criticism was polite and constructive, and done in a forum section where the whole point is to show off your work and get feedback on it.

 timthehierodule wrote:
Judging by your gallery images I don't think you are in a position to ridicule Next level's work like that.

I'm sorry, I fail to see how the fact that my gallery images aren't as good means that he's immune to criticisms. Being a successful artist means you have to take criticism, otherwise how is someone actually going to improve? Sugarcoating any feedback just because they can use an airbrush isn't helping anyone, and while I'm not a good painter as Next Level, I'm assuming he's appreciated the feedback I've given, unlike people like yourself who think such painters aren't worthy of criticism and should be idolised by all those under them.

I offered criticism: I pointed out things that I felt didn't fit the scheme. Ridiculing would be "Your painting is bad and you should feel bad".

Just because someone paints better than you doesn't mean you have to say "OMG this painting's so awesome and there's nothing wrong with it!!!111!". Get over it. I offered feedback, you are whinging.

Please let me say something about myself.
All i do is look for ways to bring this hobby back to what it once was. One way is to help people paint their own armies to a standard that they are personally happy with through a series of youtube videos.. Another way is filming and editing battle reports on youtube. Yet another way is to paint armies for people to a standard that they are happy with. I am concerned that our community doesn't know what "being nice" means or has a different definition than i do.

This rule that has been quoted "to be nice" .......well i have only rarely experienced a negative comment that was worded in a "nice way" . To say something like "your models look like sh#t but that's just my honest opinion" is not nice in my neighborhood. I only mention it because it is a community flaw. It hurts peoples feelings including my own.

You are all welcome to your critiques, i read ever single one that has ever been posted, at the end of the day i am just an artist.
Thanks for your time
-Kenny

From a personal stand point, i have always favored brush finishing over Airbrush finishing. the Quality of work that was put into this set of models is quite amazing, but as has been said before, lacking in personality. Id chock that up to the air brush finishing and probably the Level of painting that was asked for by this client.

All that being said, id still pay for this level of painting myself, then just add in the things i wanted after my order was delivered.

 Next Level wrote:
To say something like "your models look like sh#t but that's just my honest opinion" is not nice in my neighborhood. I only mention it because it is a community flaw.

It wouldn't be nice, but nobody said that.

Artistic environments thrive on criticism this is true. Early in their training artists are educated as to what "constructive" criticism is. The disparity is essential as at sometime in their careers artists will be expected to work in teams.

An artist who excels at his trade is in a unique position to offer criticism in a way that not only doesn't hurt ones feelings but offers an approach for the critiquee to be "positively" motivated to improve.

Peregrine, I'll use you as an example if I may. Your work is very tight, putting you in a position to offer a world of technique based knowledge, sadly I fail to see anything positive in your 4 lines of critique, you have a lot to offer, power and influence right there.

I think drawing a line between constructive criticism and objective negativity would go a long way to making your community a happier place to visit. I believe it would raise the quality of the collective work passing through here also.

I apologize for my previous aproach all. I should have taken a rout closer to this. Not meaning to offend anyone.

humaneel wrote:
Artistic environments thrive on criticism this is true. Early in their training artists are educated as to what "constructive" criticism is. The disparity is essential as at sometime in their careers artists will be expected to work in teams.

An artist who excels at his trade is in a unique position to offer criticism in a way that not only doesn't hurt ones feelings but offers an approach for the critiquee to be "positively" motivated to improve.

Peregrin, I'll use you as an example if I may. Your work is very tight, putting you in a position to offer a world of technique based knowledge, sadly I fail to see anything positive in your 4 lines of critique, you have a lot to offer, power and influence right there.

I think drawing a line between constructive criticism and objective negativity would go a long way to making your community a happier place to visit. I believe it would raise the quality of the collective work passing through here also.

I apologize for my previous aproach all. I should have taken a rout closer to this. Not meaning to offend anyone.

So how would you go about phrasing my criticism then?

I said in the OP that his skills are good, just the way he's used them could be improved. Nowhere did I outright say "you're a bad artist", I'm struggling to see how you interpreted my feedback as "objective negativity".

humaneel wrote:
I fail to see anything positive in your 4 lines of critique

There's nothing positive because I have nothing positive to say about the OP's work. It's badly flawed IMO and well below the standards a professional commission painter should be working at, and I'm not going to add stupid condescending comments like "good job coloring between the lines" just to fill some quota of positive feedback.

What actually matters is whether criticism is constructive, not whether there is enough positive motivational content in the criticism. Saying "this is ugly and you suck" isn't very polite and, more importantly, it tells the artist nothing about how to improve their work in the future. Both Valkyrie and I said why we don't like the models in the OP, which is constructive criticism.