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I'm wondering if its common for chapters to have a small army of serfs or arms men that fight alongside them or defend the home world.And if so how well are they equipped and trained? I know the Wolves have something of the sort.

it varies from chapter to chapter. generally the answer is going to depend on the homeworld set up they have. your average space marine chapter will governern from a distance a feral death world (the space wovles are actually a good example here) and largely leave their population alone. they'll have a small number of people toc rew their ships, run their base etc. but it's not gonna be that much in the great scheme of things. then you'll have fleet based chapters that lack a world of their own, beyond ship crewthey won't have anything.


However at the same time you have the rare case of chapters like the Ultramarines that own a civilized world and can and do support a standing army, these tend to be the rare exception though

The Ultramarines do. Macragge even as guard legions.

Some of the less tech-savvy worlds live under the protection of the Space Marines 'stuck in time:' living the traditional lifestyles they always have. (Chogoris jumps to mind.) Some of them are too sparsely populated or too focused on survival to be able to raise guard legions (or mundane guardians). Nocture and Baal, f'rex.

I think that from the Founding Chapters, the Iron Hands, Ultramarines, and Raven Guard probably do have a PDF on their planet of some sort, possibly IG or possibly private. The White Scars, Salamanders, and Blood Angels probably don't. (Dark Angels definitely don't, for obvious reasons.) Space Wolves and Imperial Fists are maybes. I'd have put SW in the 'no' group, but if you say they do I believe you.

Ive heard of the Ultra marines PDF and the wolves. I guess there isnt much explanation on the topic.

Regarding serfs combat prowess, Battlefleet Gothic had them as a standard fixture on Astartes vessels, the description for them (Armada, page 20) was:
".. serfs are fanatically loyal to their superhuman masters, and indoctrinated into many of the lesser orders of the Chapter’s Cult. Although human, they still benefit from remarkable training and access to superior weaponry than is usually found on a naval vessel, making them a fearsome prospect in a boarding action – even without the support of their genetically modified lords."

 Gashrog wrote:
Regarding serfs combat prowess, Battlefleet Gothic had them as a standard fixture on Astartes vessels, the description for them (Armada, page 20) was:
".. serfs are fanatically loyal to their superhuman masters, and indoctrinated into many of the lesser orders of the Chapter’s Cult. Although human, they still benefit from remarkable training and access to superior weaponry than is usually found on a naval vessel, making them a fearsome prospect in a boarding action – even without the support of their genetically modified lords."

This is wonderful sir, thank you

BrianDavion wrote:
it varies from chapter to chapter. generally the answer is going to depend on the homeworld set up they have. your average space marine chapter will governern from a distance a feral death world (the space wovles are actually a good example here) and largely leave their population alone. they'll have a small number of people toc rew their ships, run their base etc. but it's not gonna be that much in the great scheme of things. then you'll have fleet based chapters that lack a world of their own, beyond ship crewthey won't have anything.


However at the same time you have the rare case of chapters like the Ultramarines that own a civilized world and can and do support a standing army, these tend to be the rare exception though

Actually, the Space Wolves do maintain a sizable standing force of human auxiliaries called Kaerls to defend their fortress.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
it varies from chapter to chapter. generally the answer is going to depend on the homeworld set up they have. your average space marine chapter will governern from a distance a feral death world (the space wovles are actually a good example here) and largely leave their population alone. they'll have a small number of people toc rew their ships, run their base etc. but it's not gonna be that much in the great scheme of things. then you'll have fleet based chapters that lack a world of their own, beyond ship crewthey won't have anything.


However at the same time you have the rare case of chapters like the Ultramarines that own a civilized world and can and do support a standing army, these tend to be the rare exception though

Actually, the Space Wolves do maintain a sizable standing force of human auxiliaries called Kaerls to defend their fortress.

Considering the latest codex suddenly gave them more than a hundred warships and at least two Ramalies class Star Fortress's (!) - they have to have b] very[/b] substantial ammounts of auxillaries to operate them - plus all the other bits and pieces......

GIven some of the Ragnar books in one there patrolling a area and come across a planet with links to there chapter, it could be extended they have several systems loyal and more than just one planets resources and capabilities available to draw upon.

maybe not as recruits due to there obvious issues there but suplies to support a vast fleet and planets producing things from ordinance to mining metals, ores and fuel to feed there campaigns.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Space Wolves and Imperial Fists are maybes. I'd have put SW in the 'no' group, but if you say they do I believe you.

I doubt Fenris has the population or infrastructure to support a PDF.

The Imperial Fists are a weird case. Terra has a massive defense force, and the Imperial Fists' symbolic role is Defenders of Terra. But with all the biggest players in the IoM headquartered there, and with the IF being a fleet-based chapter in practice, it's sort of an open question how involved they really are with Terra's standing defense force.

Marine chapter serfs are kept armed, usually because they're the main fighting force on board any chapter ships as marines are too valuable to have manning a ship's more mundane posts.

The extent and numbers of Serfs that are armed will vary from chapter to chapter of course.

Every planet is going to have a PDF. It might take the form of each primitive village having a single centuries old lasgun and an ancient oath for it to be taken by the village champion to a particular mountain if and when the beacon fires are lit, but it will exist. Although also raised on more civilized worlds, the reason Imperial Guard Rough Riders are armed as lancers rather than dragoons is that they primarily exist so the Imperial Guard can make use of warriors tithed from primitive world's PDFs whose native training is to stab people with pointy sticks from horseback. Deathworlds also certainly aren't exempt from having PDFs, since Imperial Guard regiments are raised from a tithe taken from a planets PDF and the one Deathworld almost every 40k player knows is known primarily for its numerous Imperial Guard regiments. Marine fiefs might be exempt from Imperial tithes, but any competent Chapter Master will want to insure their homeworld isn't going to be easy pickings for any raider that comes along whilst the Chapter is offworld fighting the Emperor's war.

Yes, they wouldn't be able to operate otherwise.

Are there any images of Space Wolves' PDF/ Kaerls? I'd love to do some and use Guard rules to ally them in, but I'm not sure which models to use. Cadians would likely be too generic, but some Catachan/ Marauder hybrid would likely look too primitive.

I thought it was strictly forbidden for Space Marine Chapters to have auxillaries. I'm pretty sure Huron was raising auxillaries and hiding newly created marines in these forces so as to boost his chapter strength. Or at least I'm sure I read that somewhere, and I think I remember that same bit mentioning that this was why Chapters were not allowed to maintain their own armies, aside from their actual marines.

I mean why bother splitting up the legions if each chapter is just going to have its own autonomous military?

Mind you I'm sure plenty chapters find ways around this. I don't imagine that the Space Wolves are shy about breaking one more rule, and other chapters like the UM probably play it off as them doing the emperors work. Although perhaps the UM merely maintain their own IG regiment, which would be entirely different than a UM regiment! At any rate if you wanted to say that your chapter has a conscripted army or something like that, there certainly isn't anything stopping you!

I got my hands on Codex: Eye of Terror and I would love to try out a loyalist version of the Lost and the Damned. Having a Space Marine leading a platoon of guardsmen seems like a lot of fun!

darkcloak wrote:
I thought it was strictly forbidden for Space Marine Chapters to have auxillaries.

I don't think so. The only they are prevented from having is a fleet that does more than necessary to deliver the Space Marines planetside. Of course, what is deemed necessary and what is enforceable is up for a lot of debate.

We also know the Thousand Sons had their Spireguard on Prospero. In the Battle of the Fang the Spireguard still existed in the 31st millenium, and that the T-sons used them as attrition troops when they attacked Fenris.

The training and equipment almost certainly varies from Chapter to Chapter. The Fenrisian Kaerls seemed to be honored by the Space Wolves, though certainly of lower status; proud, well trained and reasonably equipped. The Spireguard seemed as well equipped as any Guard unit, but their training seemed indifferent and they were clearly cannon fodder.

Arguably, Chaos cultists are even more poorly trained and equipped than a PDF. I say arguably because I can easily picture Chaos Cultists who are in control of a planet and all it's manufacturing/resources and are thus well equipped.

I can also picture Word Bearer or Alpha Legion cultists who are thoroughly indoctrinated zealots with nigh-unbreakable morale, or corrupted PDFs who retain their martial traditions and training. Think the Blood Pact, or even a 'Dark Kasrkin' or something of the sort.

Soooo... Chaos Marines with Guard Allies. It's a thing.

My two cents.

I know that at least the wolves do they call them Kaerls can't say about the rest but I imagine most chapters would especially chapters like the Ultra Marines who control several planets.

darkcloak wrote:
I thought it was strictly forbidden for Space Marine Chapters to have auxillaries. I'm pretty sure Huron was raising auxillaries and hiding newly created marines in these forces so as to boost his chapter strength.

It was the extra marines raised through dubious means that got him into trouble. The trade dispute between the Badab and Kathargo Sectors had languished stalemated in the Imperial courts for a century because marines did have the legal right to raise defense forces and to withhold the resources needed to do so. Think of it like a policeman shooting a criminal: he can do it, but (in a civilized jurisdiction) there'll still be an inquiry to make sure the action was justified.

Ah I see! I had thought auxillaries were something banned after the heresy, but I guess not!

Reading through the Badab War now, well skimming really, so I've only got snippets of the story.

That is kind of interesting, so as long as you pay the tithe, don't get caught up in any heresy, or piss off the imperium by other means, each chapter can pretty much build their own empire ala' Ultramar.