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Wyverns lose twin-linked, go up to 80 pts.

Hydras go up to 80 pts, but can choose between having Skyfire or not on each turn (like flyers.)

Executioner Plasma Cannon no longer gets hot, goes up by 15 pts. Sponson plasma weapons can still get hot (lack of a built-in cooling system.)

 Lukash_ wrote:
Wyverns lose twin-linked, go up to 80 pts.

Wholeheartedly agree. The Wyvern is a bit too good IMO.

Hydras go up to 80 pts, but can choose between having Skyfire or not on each turn (like flyers.)

The ONLY way I will accept 80 point Hydras is if they regain their "Auto-targeting System" rule(which was removed from C: Imperial Guard to Astra Militarum, but remained in Imperial Armour) in addition to a "Choose whether or not to fire as Skyfire" option and a ROF increase to Heavy 5.

Oh. And ATS goes from "Ignores Jink Saves" to "Ignores Cover".

Executioner Plasma Cannon no longer gets hot, goes up by 15 pts. Sponson plasma weapons can still get hot (lack of a built-in cooling system.)

I'd posit that any "primary weapon" Plasma weapons get the removal of "Gets Hot". Sentinels, Dreadnoughts, etc.

 Lukash_ wrote:
Wyverns lose twin-linked, go up to 80 pts.

Hydras go up to 80 pts, but can choose between having Skyfire or not on each turn (like flyers.)

Executioner Plasma Cannon no longer gets hot, goes up by 15 pts. Sponson plasma weapons can still get hot (lack of a built-in cooling system.)

I can agree with this. While I do like how good the Wyvern is right now it's probably a little bit TOO good.

If the wyvern nerfed I'd prefer that it go from heavy 1 from heavy 2 and retain twin-linked. The reason I say this is I'd prefer it be more accurate and do a few wounds than just throwing out more blasts that will never hit with guard BS and have potential to do masses of wounds.

The Twin-Lined will probably stay I imagine, if it loses anything it will probably be either Ignores Cover or Shred. Shred would probably be the most likely candidate.

That said, with the way GW's going these days, I expect they'll add Armorbane to it and nerf the Hydra to S5 :/

They can't nerf the Hydra without nerfing Autocannons in general.

And if Cruddace is involved again? It won't be nerfed because he'd have to go from Copy/Pasting to actually typing something.

 Kanluwen wrote:
They can't nerf the Hydra without nerfing Autocannons in general.

*Shhhh* don't make it worse.

And if Cruddace is involved again? It won't be nerfed because he'd have to go from Copy/Pasting to actually typing something.

Didn't seem to stop them from removing the "ignores jink" rule

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
They can't nerf the Hydra without nerfing Autocannons in general.

*Shhhh* don't make it worse.

And if Cruddace is involved again? It won't be nerfed because he'd have to go from Copy/Pasting to actually typing something.

Didn't seem to stop them from removing the "ignores jink" rule

That's easy--you just don't Paste what you Copied!

 Kanluwen wrote:
They can't nerf the Hydra without nerfing Autocannons in general.
.

Don't worry, it's a "Hydra Autocannon" now - it has lighter and weaker shells to give it a longer range!

 Selym wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
They can't nerf the Hydra without nerfing Autocannons in general.
.

Don't worry, it's a "Hydra Autocannon" now - it has lighter and weaker shells to give it a longer range!

Y'know...

Hydra Autocannons having lighter and "weaker" shells with Shred and Haywire(shells with a proximity fuse and an EMP effect on detonation) might not be a bad idea.
It loses some "oomph" against bigger flying beasties but gains some "oomph" against Flyers and Skimmers.

Craaaaaaaaaap, now I'm starting to wonder if "variant" Autocannon shells should become a thing for Guard.

Step 1: Stop calling it "Astra Militarum"

 Harriticus wrote:
Step 1: Stop calling it "Astra Militarum"

It's in the book hardly ever, and it even says something to the extent of "most commonly known to citizens of the Imperium as the Imperial Guard".

Who cares what it says on the boxes or the Codex cover?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
Step 1: Stop calling it "Astra Militarum"

It's in the book hardly ever, and it even says something to the extent of "most commonly known to citizens of the Imperium as the Imperial Guard".

Who cares what it says on the boxes or the Codex cover?

Apparently the guy above you.
To be less flippant, a lot of Guard players were pretty upset about it at release.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
Step 1: Stop calling it "Astra Militarum"

It's in the book hardly ever, and it even says something to the extent of "most commonly known to citizens of the Imperium as the Imperial Guard".

Who cares what it says on the boxes or the Codex cover?

On the flip side, if it keeps saying "they're really the Imperial Guard" and we all know what it is, why bother changing the name?

 Harriticus wrote:
Step 1: Stop calling it "Astra Militarum"

This, oh so much this. The silly "Astra Militarum" name is so painfully stupid sounding, and, even worse, so painfully hamfisted onto the faction that it's just impossible to take seriously.

It's even worse when tournaments or blogs insist on using it

I believe such examples of AM acceptance to be the product of two things. First, the desire so many people apparently have of "sticking to the official" (which, in a broader state of affairs, it's what's primarly allowed GW to have such gakky rules for their games and get away with it). Second, it seems everything latin (even if stupid faux latin) sounds cool to many english-speaking people.

The funniest part is that, most of the time, latin as a language is as pragmatic as the people who originally spoke it. Get a direct, faithful translation and odds are it'll actually sound cool enough. Custodia Imperii or Milites Imperii ("Soldiers/Troops of the Empire") would have worked just fine. However considering how the 40k fluff reads more and more like teenagey fanfiction with each edition that goes by, perhaps the stupid faux latin names are actually more appropiate and fitting for what the setting has become, a silly "wow so serious" unintentional self-parody.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

- Chimeras return to their old point cost.... plus a return to three firing out the turret

...and Side AV11

 Spinner wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
Step 1: Stop calling it "Astra Militarum"

It's in the book hardly ever, and it even says something to the extent of "most commonly known to citizens of the Imperium as the Imperial Guard".

Who cares what it says on the boxes or the Codex cover?

On the flip side, if it keeps saying "they're really the Imperial Guard" and we all know what it is, why bother changing the name?

We all know exactly why they did. It's very disingenuous to behave as though this happened in some kind of vacuum with nobody being able to predict it, ever.

Korinov wrote:I believe such examples of AM acceptance to be the product of two things. First, the desire so many people apparently have of "sticking to the official" (which, in a broader state of affairs, it's what's primarly allowed GW to have such gakky rules for their games and get away with it). Second, it seems everything latin (even if stupid faux latin) sounds cool to many english-speaking people.

All honesty? I accept it because it's easy to write off the name as what the High Lords of Terra and the other agencies of the Imperium refer to the Imperial Guard as on paper.

The funniest part is that, most of the time, latin as a language is as pragmatic as the people who originally spoke it. Get a direct, faithful translation and odds are it'll actually sound cool enough. Custodia Imperii or Milites Imperii ("Soldiers/Troops of the Empire") would have worked just fine. However considering how the 40k fluff reads more and more like teenagey fanfiction with each edition that goes by, perhaps the stupid faux latin names are actually more appropiate and fitting for what the setting has become, a silly "wow so serious" unintentional self-parody.

It's long been established that High Gothic is faux-Latin, not actual Latin.

 Kanluwen wrote:

It's long been established that High Gothic is faux-Latin, not actual Latin.

Of course, but one would assume they'd go for the faux Latin in search of coolness. Yet their faux latin names sound pretty lame, while the actual latin words look pretty fine to me.

It's as if I were designing a game in Spanish and went for fake-English words, naming a certain piece of artillery a "Mowrthaer" while specifiying in its description that "it's actually called Mortar by the common soldiers". How to craft silly names for the sake of it.

The name sounds like a spell from Harry Potter.

 vipoid wrote:
The name sounds like a spell from Harry Potter.

Indeed.


The tacking on of the faux-latin 25+ years after the faction was invented, for the faction that probably had the least faux-latin pretentiousness, particularly without any discernible rhyme or reason, just feels really awkward, particularly as both "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are also some of the more ridiculous sounding faux-latin titles in the 40k universe. They don't feel organic to the faction, they appear very forced.

At least "Adeptus Astartes" fits the Space Marines. Godlike superhumans. Highly adept. The second word sounds like stars. "Adepts of the Stars".

Astra Militarum is just a cheesy, sloppy attempt at copyright.

 Selym wrote:
At least "Adeptus Astartes" fits the Space Marines. Godlike superhumans. Highly adept. The second word sounds like stars. "Adepts of the Stars".

Astra Militarum is just a cheesy, sloppy attempt at copyright.

Exactly, its a stupid faux Latin name which makes no sense at all.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Selym wrote:
At least "Adeptus Astartes" fits the Space Marines. Godlike superhumans. Highly adept. The second word sounds like stars. "Adepts of the Stars".

Astra Militarum is just a cheesy, sloppy attempt at copyright.

Exactly, its a stupid faux Latin name which makes no sense at all.

Hear, hear.

 Lukash_ wrote:
Wyverns lose twin-linked, go up to 80 pts.

Meh I would say 80 points would be slightly too high. Although currently at 65 points they're a steal, but that being said most other codices have far worse culprits.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The ONLY way I will accept 80 point Hydras is if they regain their "Auto-targeting System" rule(which was removed from C: Imperial Guard to Astra Militarum, but remained in Imperial Armour) in addition to a "Choose whether or not to fire as Skyfire" option and a ROF increase to Heavy 5.

Oh. And ATS goes from "Ignores Jink Saves" to "Ignores Cover".

Well surely that was because the IA was written prior to the current codex? I know this is the case with IAv1:2e. Many other unit's such as the chimera are pretty much the same as they were in C: Imperial Guard represented by their lower point cost, the Hydra also did not use to be open topped.

Well the ATS wording already is in effect "Ignores Cover saves or Cover Bonuses provided by Supersonic or Jink", why would you give it an overall Ignore Cover save without doing the same to normal autocannons? Especially if they normal Hydra's rate of fire increased? Ignoring Jink should return at the very least however.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

The ONLY way I will accept 80 point Hydras is if they regain their "Auto-targeting System" rule(which was removed from C: Imperial Guard to Astra Militarum, but remained in Imperial Armour) in addition to a "Choose whether or not to fire as Skyfire" option and a ROF increase to Heavy 5.

Oh. And ATS goes from "Ignores Jink Saves" to "Ignores Cover".

Well surely that was because the IA was written prior to the current codex? I know this is the case with IAv1:2e. Many other unit's such as the chimera are pretty much the same as they were in C: Imperial Guard represented by their lower point cost, the Hydra also did not use to be open topped.

FW in their FAQ went out of their way to ignore the Hydra, and one of the designers said at the Open Day that year the lack of ATS on the Hydra was "dumbassery". Sooooo...it being written prior to the current codex means nothing.

Well the ATS wording already is in effect "Ignores Cover saves or Cover Bonuses provided by Supersonic or Jink", why would you give it an overall Ignore Cover save without doing the same to normal autocannons? Especially if they normal Hydra's rate of fire increased? Ignoring Jink should return at the very least however.

Truthfully? If I'm paying 80 points for a Skyfiring Autocannon(even two twin-linked ones), it better be ignoring all cover saves and putting an obscene number of shots downrange.

Compare the Hydra to an Onager with the Icarus Array or a Hunter with the Icarus Stormcannon Array. The Hydra is woefully outclassed these days.

Indeed, the Hydra should be able to "Ignores Cover" and fire at ground targets. It could before and it should now.

Starting to brainstorm again, this time regarding Heavy Weapon Squads and Special Weapon Squads.
Thinking about specialized rules tied to purchasing specific weapon loadouts.

I'm thinking of the following for Special Weapon Squads:
"Extermination Teams": The models in an Extermination Squad break into three teams of two(each one counting as its own unit for victory points purposes), one with a Lasgun(Spotter) and one with a Sniper Rifle(Marksman).Extermination Teams gain the Stealth and Shrouded special rules when they remain stationary during their turn. As long as the unit has remained stationary that turn, at the beginning of each Shooting phase, the Spotter may choose a single non-vehicle model. Until the Spotter designates another target, the Marksman gains Fleshbane and Precision Shot(5+) against that model.
When a Spotter designates a target, the Extermination Team cannot fire Overwatch or use their Lasgun.

"Purge Team": The models in a Purge Team all may take Flamers. A Purge Team may opt to fire its Flamers as Torrent weapons but may not fire Overwatch if they choose to do so.

"Armour Hunter Team": Three models in the Armour Hunter Team come equipped with Meltaguns. The unit gains Stealth and Move Through Cover.

"Assault Team": Three models in the Assault Team may take Flamers and a single model in the Assault Team may take a Demolition Charge. Unit gains Move Through Cover.



Some of these aren't great, but this is still just brainstorming. Feel free to chime in; I gotta get ready to go somewhere.

For Heavy Weapons squads I would like to see a special rule (maybe called weapons team or something like that) where weapons that would normally count as instant death to the squad actually only cause one wound (to represent either the gunner or the loader getting hit). It makes 0 sense for one plasma gun shot to kill both the gunner and the loader imo

Leman Russ troop
If a Leman Russ troop consists of 2 or more tanks then all Leman Russ within the troop gain the Splitfire special rule. This is in addition to the benefits listed below.

Leman Russ support troop
If a Leman Russ troop includes 3 tanks then provided they do not move in the moving phase they may fire each weapon twice

Leman Russ Suppression troop
If a Leman Russ troop includes 3 Punishers then all 3 tanks gain Pinning

Leman Russ demolition troop
If a Leman Russ troop includes 3 Demolisher's then all 3 tanks gain Ignores Cover. In addition any terrain piece at least 50% under a blast marker will be removed on a 4+

Leman Russ hunter troop
If a Leman Russ troop includes at least 1 Vanquisher then all Vanquishers gain the Ignores Cover special rule and +1 BS, provided at least one other tank within the troop can draw line of sight to the target. In addition all the Vanquishers may ignore unit coherency limitations

Leman Russ extermination troop
If a Leman Russ troop includes 3 Eradicators then all 3 tanks gain the Instant Death and Shred special rules

Leman Russ advance troop
If a Leman Russ troop includes 3 Exterminators then all 3 tanks gain the Rending special rule and may fire their Exterminator Autocannons twice