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Here are four different versions of Decurion at 1850, two are fairly similar, the others are pretty distinct. Each does bring a unique angle to a fairly established detachment, and I'm wondering if any of the four stand out as the clear TAC winner. I'll provide a brief tactical description for each list. I know it's a lot to look at, but for those who take the time, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!



Decurion Harvest - this list brings a core in the reclamation legion anchored by two hard units of wraiths, and a mini-scarab farm with four spyders producing, nothing fancy, just solid.

Reclamation Legion

Overlord (Immortals)

9x Immortals w/ Gauss Blasters

10x Warriors
Ghost Ark

10x Warriors
Ghost Ark

10x Warriors
Ghost Ark

3x Tomb Blades w/ Shieldvanes, Nebuloscopes & Particle Beamers


Canoptek Harvest

1x Canoptek Scarabs w/ 3x Bases

2x Canoptek Spyders

6x Wraiths w/ Whip Coils


Canoptek Harvest

1x Canoptek Scarabs w/ 3x Bases

2x Canoptek Spyders

6x Wraiths w/ Whip Coils




Decurion Cult - This is a shooty Decurion that still brings solid troop presence but comes with much more of a mobile gunline. A lot of ap 3 and a lot of ignores cover.

Reclamation Legion

Overlord (Immortals)

5x Immortals w/ Gauss Blasters

10x Warriors
Ghost Ark

10x Warriors
Ghost Ark

10x Warriors
Ghost Ark

5x Tomb Blades w/ Shield Vanes, Nebuloscopes & Particle Beamers

5x Tomb Blades w/ Shield Vanes, Nebuloscopes & Particle Beamers

5x Tomb Blades w/ Shield Vanes, Nebuloscopes & Particle Beamers


Destroyer Cult

Destroyer Lord (Immortals)

3x Destroyers

3x Destroyers

3x Destroyers

3x Heavy Destroyers



Decurion Scythe - This list is the one similar to the first, it's reclamation plus harvest, but eschews the hard lychguard unit for a second mobile harassment unit in the tomb blades and three night scythes for three immortal squads to lend air support. It's a nod to anti-air and frankly my least favorite list.

Reclamation Legion

Overlord (immortals)

5x Immortals w/ Gauss Blasters
Night Scythe

5x Immortals w/ Gauss Blasters
Night Scythe

5x Immortals w/ Gauss Blasters
Night Scythe

10x Warriors
Ghost Ark

10x Warriors
Ghost Ark

3x Tomb Blades w/ Shield Vanes, Nebuloscopes & Particle Beamers

3x Tomb Blades w/ Shield Vanes, Nebuloscopes & Particle Beamers


Canoptek Harvest

1x Canoptek Scarabs w/ 5x Bases

3x Canoptek Spyders 150

6x Wraiths w/ Whip Coils



Decurion Steel Wave - This Decurion, along with the cult, are my favorites. This list eschews other formations, a min squad of flayed ones withstanding to reach decurion requirements, for a steel wave of attrition. The idea is pure durability via 4+ RP and the slow inevitable efficiency of gauss. 60 warriors, 30 in arks, 30 out, with the arks regenerating the foot sloggers. And an impervious 10-man sword and board lychguard unit as a forward phalanx.

Reclamation Legion

Overlord w/ Warscythe (Lychguard)

10x Lychguard w/ Hyperphase Swords & Dispersion Shields

10x Immortals w/ Gauss Blasters

10x Warriors
Ghost Ark

10x Warriors
Ghost Ark

10x Warriors
Ghost Ark

10x Warriors

10x Warriors

10x Warriors

5x Tomb Blades w/ Shieldvanes, Nebuloscopes & Particle Beamers


Flayed Ones

5x Flayed ones

Since I am very new to Necrons, I can't give you solid advice on which of your lists is the best. However a few things stood out to me. First you should remember that a lot of people don't believe that you can take more than one Spyder in the canoptek harvest formation. It is a very ambiguous and hotly debated rule, and a lot of people won't like playing against it because it makes the already strong formation even more powerful. Also, you don't seem to be putting many upgrades on your HQ. If you play with a slay the warlord victory point, you will basically be giving up a free victory point to your opponent. Consider giving your overlord a phase shifter to make him more survivable.

I also have one comment about your final list. You put an overlord w/ warscythe with a unit of sword and board lychgaurd. This is a great tactic it is certainly a very strong, very survivable unit. The only problem is that it is very slow. Consider taking a veil of darkness or a night scythe if you can shuffle enough points around.

None of these criticisms are meant to say that your lists aren't good. All four lists seem solid, and make use of tried and true tactics (steel wave) or really powerful formations (canoptek harvest and destroyer cult). I think you should do fine with any of these lists, but someone else with more experience might be able to tell you which one edges out the others.

Anrakyr-the-Traveller wrote:
First you should remember that a lot of people don't believe that you can take more than one Spyder in the canoptek harvest formation. It is a very ambiguous and hotly debated rule, and a lot of people won't like playing against it because it makes the already strong formation even more powerful.

It is indeed hotly debated.

But for the OP, I suggest you stick to your guns. RAW, it is exceedingly clear that the rules permit adding additional spyders to the Canoptek Harvest formation. Don't let mob anti-necron TFG behavior dissuade you from following clear unequivocal rules and from running 3 spyders in the Canoptek Harvest formation.

You've got too many Spyders in your Canoptek Harvests. Other than that they should all do well.

On the issue of the Spyder, I understand the debate, and until it is errata'd or ruled by my local TO, I'm going to keep them as such, it's just too easy to focus down one Spyder and lose the RP.

On the issue of the naked Overlords. This is a design decision I believe I'm right on, and I predict others will come around to this thinking. The CCB is dead IMO, for nearly 200 points it does not get the job done as a solo smash face anymore. The footslogging overlords are also never going to be premier combatants, and they also aren't very good force multipliers, as such, I really look at them as a tax for the decurion - with the exception of maybe giving him a warscythe when with a killy unit like lychguard. If you'll notice each list has him stuck in a unit for ablative wounds to protect the easy slay the warlord, and I believe the 100ish points saved on expensive and largely useless wargear for this guy is well saved.

For 70 more points, you can upgrade the Overlords to Zhandrekh.

He IS a force-multiplier, providing any warlord trait you wish to use. Reserve rerolls, fearless, +1 cover in ruins, reroll 1s when shooting within 12" (especially good for all those warriors), maelstrom VP manipulation, -1 to opponent's reserve rolls... etc. In addition to this, he has 2+ save and the phase shifter, making him a difficult model to kill for slay the warlord. Compared to a bare-bones overlord I'd say he's a bargain. The only reason not to use him is if you want a melee overlord, which obviously you don't.

In the first list you can do this by removing 1 Wraith's whip coils and reducing the size of the immortals. Those extra bodies were probably fillers anyway. And as long as those Arks are within 12" you can use a warlord trait to give them all rerolls of 1 to hit in shooting. That should make up for 4 fewer immortals.

In the second list this would be more difficult since you're already pretty min-maxed. The only thing I could think of is reducing the number of tomb blades but I'm not sure it's worth it here.

In list 3 you could remove a spyder and a scarab. The bonus to cover in ruins alone may make up for this. Plus reserve rerolls for the airforce.

In list 4 you have even more warriors to give rerolls to. Again you can reduce the size of the immortals to fit him in. But you won't have the warscythe it all depends on how much you were relying on that AP 2 melee weapon.

Personally I feel like the destroyer decurion might be your best bet. However having your warlord in such a small unit seems wasted. I would drop a ghost ark, and use the points to boost a unit of warriors to +15, make the D-lord the warlord, for re-rolling your trait, then plop both HQ in with the blob. You will now have a giant warrior blob with preferred enemy, which will really boost their shooting, plus a good chance at zealot, or another good trait. I havent lost warlord since I started to do this.

So first, you will have 11 units during deployment, in a decurion, destroyers are pretty tough to take down, especially with jumping around in and out of cover. Heavy destroyers are going to be great, they are a necrons best shot at first blood. Your have enough ap3 to not worry about any marine armies, and it will force FMCs and jetbikes to really consider that jink save, which will screw with their shooting (suck it eldar!)

I ran a similar list a bit ago, though I had 2x10 warriors, 19 warriors, canoptek harvest, and a destroyer cult, 3x3 twin linked gauss blades and 5 immortals It was a solid, and easy win, I felt bad.

I would also try to make room to give the D lord a scythe and phase shifter, as insurance. Last thing you want is some big nasty getting lucky and getting into CC with you, then having no defense.

peteralmo wrote:
On the issue of the Spyder, I understand the debate, and until it is errata'd or ruled by my local TO, I'm going to keep them as such, it's just too easy to focus down one Spyder and lose the RP.

Look at the formation page and please tell me how many Spyders it says you can take. I'm not trying to take anything away from you. Necrons are my main army and I run a Harvest in all of my lists. Hell in 5th I ran 18 Wraiths (3 whip coils, 2 naked, 1 pistol for allocation purposes) and loved it. It does suck to lose your Spyder turn 1 before you've even gone, but come on.. we have a top tier codex already, no need to be TFG with it as well lol

It's not about being TFG, it's about demanding GW clarify these things. If I know the tournament dictates only 1, I'll only take 1 and not complain. But I can't stand how these debates become public record, like the spyder, or rods of covenant, and GW refuses to issue a quick errata. It peeves me to no end.

List 2 is the only one without poor choices (big units of wraiths or a small one of flayed one with Lychguardstar missing the eequipment and support required to make it work). For AT I would drop particles on 2 tomb blade units for a Heavy in 2 Destroyer units. So that's what I would do and side steps the Harvest debate (which despite Col_impacts claim isn't RaW, RaW is broken as there is no such thing as 1 Canoptek Spyder as a datasheets).

The rod debate is slowed and I've never seen anyone play that firing pistols stops you from gaining the bonus attack (which is a result of following the rod only working in one profile interpretation).

peteralmo wrote:
It's not about being TFG, it's about demanding GW clarify these things. If I know the tournament dictates only 1, I'll only take 1 and not complain. But I can't stand how these debates become public record, like the spyder, or rods of covenant, and GW refuses to issue a quick errata. It peeves me to no end.

Please Note: I am speaking as an avid Necron player here, I love my Necrons and will fight hard against anyone claiming they are overpowered, broken, etc. HOWEVER: the Harvest composition is VERY clear. Please consider the following:

If you want an answer to the debate of 1 Spyder vs 1 Unit of Spyders, you need look no further than the Judicator Battalion formation. The Judicator Battalion says, "1 Unit of Triarch Stalkers," which clearly means between 1 and 3 stalkers in one unit. So if GW wanted you to be able to take more than 1 Spyder in the Harvest, they should have used the same wording. But they did not, therefore, we MUST take the "1 Canoptek Spyder" phrase to mean, one single Spyder and not 1 unit of Spyders.

This is my opinion and my gaming group ran a vote that agreed 90% with this ruling. That being said, I will not be arguing this point, as this is not the place for it, I merely want to share my view of this issue with a fellow Necron Player.

 FlingitNow wrote:
List 2 is the only one without poor choices (big units of wraiths or a small one of flayed one with Lychguardstar missing the eequipment and support required to make it work). For AT I would drop particles on 2 tomb blade units for a Heavy in 2 Destroyer units. So that's what I would do and side steps the Harvest debate (which despite Col_impacts claim isn't RaW, RaW is broken as there is no such thing as 1 Canoptek Spyder as a datasheets).

The rod debate is slowed and I've never seen anyone play that firing pistols stops you from gaining the bonus attack (which is a result of following the rod only working in one profile interpretation).

Please explain further why 6 wraiths is problematic, but 3ish? isn't. Small unit of flayed ones is basically a tax for taking a maxed out reclamation legion. The big unit of lychguard are there to provide a large, extremely hard to kill distraction while all the warriors go to work, they aren't meant to be a super killy star that the list depends on, however, please list out the support needed to "make them work." Res Orb? Solar Staff and a Night Scythe?

FlingitNow has been a fierce advocate of minimum harvests. I only use the harvest as Tau allies and have needed all 6 Wraiths in my games for them to work. They have to be able to bear hug dedicated CC Units like spawn star and invisi blob (both of which I deal with on a regular basis) as well as centstars (that too). For the last one, 3 will do of they make it there, which is the operative phrase isn't it?

I'll say this, I think FlingItNow's recommendation is correct in general because I believe MSU is the wave of the future (especially with the new marines insane "free transports for a full company"). But you have to build your whole list supporting that strategy which means multiple harvests. Otherwise, I think a single harvest will either die on its way to work or simply won't be able to tarpit the scary things long enough.

Clear as mud?

Wraiths are a fast moving tarpit, but their damage output is poor for the points (it'll take a 6 man unit most of a battle to kill a tactical squad). Yes they can wreck vehicles in CC but 3 do that job so the 4th plus is just wasted points, making your tarpit likely to be more expensive than whatever they are tarpitting... Multiple 3s does everything 6s do but for half the points. Since the nerf they are no longer a mainline combat unit as they just don't have the damage output.

Lychguardstar works as either a hammer or a distraction. For the former you need anvils to hold the enemy in place (like MSU Wraiths) and a way to get into a good position in the early game (like a veil or Obyron) and a way to ensure they survive like solar staff. For distraction for me they are a little expensive but still they need a veil otherwise they will simply be ignored. That is your issue you have too much stuff that can just be ignored or tied up too easily.

Out of your lists I like the decurion steel wave approach. Have you ever thought about running a justicar with it instead of he flayed ones? The bs 5 warriors everywhere would be pretty great.

The harvest list I wouldn't run period until they FAQ or just run with single spyders. I am a Necron and tau player and I still wouldn't feild a harvest with more than one spyder because I think the rule is clear, but that's just me. If for no other reason then to avoid drama I would avoid high drama units. If you want to run a scarab farm you can still do so effectively with a CAD.

My second favorite would be the decurion supported by destroyers. I like all your load outs here. I question the need for the 3rd ghost arch since you dont have a large footslogging group. But I guess if you want mobile obs sec then it's a good way to go. I would drop the arch and 3rd warriors for some toys for the destroyer lord.

Anyway that's my $0.02

How is the ghostark providing mobile ObSec? Or indeed any kind of ObSec?

I'm sorry, what is the wraith nerf you're speaking of?

Inability to work with a Dlord for PE and guaranteed damage output from his scythe.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Wraiths are a fast moving tarpit, but their damage output is poor for the points (it'll take a 6 man unit most of a battle to kill a tactical squad). Yes they can wreck vehicles in CC but 3 do that job so the 4th plus is just wasted points, making your tarpit likely to be more expensive than whatever they are tarpitting... Multiple 3s does everything 6s do but for half the points. Since the nerf they are no longer a mainline combat unit as they just don't have the damage output.

Lychguardstar works as either a hammer or a distraction. For the former you need anvils to hold the enemy in place (like MSU Wraiths) and a way to get into a good position in the early game (like a veil or Obyron) and a way to ensure they survive like solar staff. For distraction for me they are a little expensive but still they need a veil otherwise they will simply be ignored. That is your issue you have too much stuff that can just be ignored or tied up too easily.

I've seen you make this argument a lot. As I said, I agree with 3 Wraith harvests for MSU purposes, but even 6 Wraiths with coils isn't THAT expensive and if a player uses them to tarpit tactical squads he's either insane, stupid, or insanely stupid. They exist to tarpit death stars which, for now, are still prevalent.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Inability to work with a Dlord for PE and guaranteed damage output from his scythe.

The D Lord works fine with the wraiths. It's just now you have to invest in a D cult to get the D Lord in the Canoptek Harvest wraith unit. However, you could just go straight CAD wraiths + D Lord.

Decurion Cult.

You're going to need destroyers to deal with high-toughness and vehicle-friendly armies, unless you REALLY want to rely on stripping HPs off and keeping up rapid fire range.

I'm not saying he'll use them to tarpit tacticals. I'm saying you can tarpit them with tacticals...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

col_impact wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Inability to work with a Dlord for PE and guaranteed damage output from his scythe.

The D Lord works fine with the wraiths. It's just now you have to invest in a D cult to get the D Lord in the Canoptek Harvest wraith unit. However, you could just go straight CAD wraiths + D Lord.

Remember thrust move is a unit choice so you can't do that with the DLord attached... Just like Broadsides and drones.

I see.

 FlingitNow wrote:


Remember thrust move is a unit choice so you can't do that with the DLord attached... Just like Broadsides and drones.

Wrong.

An Independent Character is a unit all by itself.

When it joins a unit, an Independent Character counts as part of a unit for all intents and purposes except for the character rules which it must follow and also the Independent Character rules which allow it to do very unique things like detach from a unit or attach to a different unit, etc. It loses its unit in a unit status except for those areas governed by character and IC rules (where it retains its ability to act as a separate unit in a unit) as the rule makes clear.

The character rules require that for movement purposes we follow the model type.

With regards to movement the Independent Character retains its status as a unit in a unit since those movement exceptions fall under character rules which are not ruled by the 'for all intents and purposes' clause.

col_impact wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:


Remember thrust move is a unit choice so you can't do that with the DLord attached... Just like Broadsides and drones.

Wrong.

An Independent Character is a unit all by itself.

When it joins a unit, an Independent Character counts as part of a unit for all intents and purposes except for the character rules which it must follow and also the Independent Character rules which allow it to do very unique things like detach from a unit or attach to a different unit, etc. It loses its unit in a unit status except for those areas governed by character and IC rules (where it retains its ability to act as a separate unit in a unit) as the rule makes clear.

The character rules require that for movement purposes we follow the model type.

With regards to movement the Independent Character retains its status as a unit in a unit since those movement exceptions fall under character rules which are not ruled by the 'for all intents and purposes' clause.

Here's not the place to discuss but model type isn't a thing. Nothing in the IC rules states he counts as a separate unit during the assault phase or for assault phase movement.

 FlingitNow wrote:


Here's not the place to discuss but model type isn't a thing. Nothing in the IC rules states he counts as a separate unit during the assault phase or for assault phase movement.

The thrust move is a movement rule.







Voila! I move the D Lord with the thrust move in the assault phase to keep up with the wraiths. Clear chain of permission in the rules.

Nothing in that allows the Dlord to make a thrust move.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So do you have ANY rule that states the DLord is treated as a separate unit for the assault phase or for assault phase movement?

 FlingitNow wrote:
Nothing in that allows the Dlord to make a thrust move.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So do you have ANY rule that states the DLord is treated as a separate unit for the assault phase or for assault phase movement?

The thrust move is a movement rule. I have quoted the relevant rules above and have shown clear permission.

You on the other hand have not shown any restriction with any rules.

The D Lord is a unit in its own right (just check the Army Entry List) and as such simply invokes the thrust move since it is all by itself a Jet Pack unit.

col_impact wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Nothing in that allows the Dlord to make a thrust move.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So do you have ANY rule that states the DLord is treated as a separate unit for the assault phase or for assault phase movement?

The thrust move is a movement rule. I have quoted the relevant rules above and have shown clear permission.

You on the other hand have not shown any restriction with any rules.

The D Lord is a unit in its own right (just check the Army Entry List) and as such simply invokes the thrust move since it is all by itself a Jet Pack unit.

Thrust move requires you to be a jetpack unit correct?
When attached to the Wraiths are they a jetpack unit?
Is there any rule that allows the unit to count as a jetpack unit for the thrust move?
Is there any rule that allows the Dlord to count as a separate unit for performing a thrust move?

Heck the rules you quoted stated you have follow the rules for your unit type. Yet you insist on breaking them.

When the Dlord is part of the Wraith unit, he counts as being part of that unit. The Wraith unit IS NOT jetpack, therefore cannot make a Thrust Move. The rule book says:

“Thrust Move
A Jet Pack unit that is not locked in combat or charging can move up to 2D6" in the Assault phase, even if they have shot or Run in the preceding Shooting phase or arrived by Deep Strike that turn. When Jet Pack units move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they move just as they would when using their jet packs in the Movement phase."

It says a Jetpack Unit can make the Thrust Move, the Dlord is currently counted as being part of the Wraith unit, therefore is not a Jet Pack unit and therefore NOT allowed to make a Thrust Move.