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Yeah decurion was in the necron codex wasnt it.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Alright - I'm not disagreeing with you but consider this. I can buy the original - make copies and then sell the original. GW lost profits but I broke no laws. How could anyone ethically not let me play with this digital copy?

I'm not arguing that you can't use the copy - I'm not in that camp. I'm in the "you can use the copy" camp. That said, I'm sure that what you're listing here is still considered illegal, but that would require me to learn law .

 Yarium wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Alright - I'm not disagreeing with you but consider this. I can buy the original - make copies and then sell the original. GW lost profits but I broke no laws. How could anyone ethically not let me play with this digital copy?

I'm not arguing that you can't use the copy - I'm not in that camp. I'm in the "you can use the copy" camp. That said, I'm sure that what you're listing here is still considered illegal, but that would require me to learn law .

Well, hang on a sec. It's legal almost everywhere that matters to make a photocopy of an original to for personal use whether the original belongs to you or not. For example, going to a library, and photocopying a pages out of a periodical or book or textbook is perfectly legal, even though the library owns the textbook.

It's not legal to resell those copies without permission from the copyright owner.

If you are the owner of the original, there is nothing stopping you from selling the original. There is also nothing stopping you from gifting photocopies of the original to your friends, whomever that may be. Take it out of the context if wargaming, and people do it all the time -- for example, with newspaper clippings. Won an award? Grab a couple of local newspapers, make a bunch of copies for all your family. No copyright violation. Like a health article from an magazine? Photocopy and give it to your aunt, no problem. There isn't even a perceived ethical issue.

I do not believe that there is any such protection or fair use for scanning originals (for personal use), not that I can imagine any sort of injunctive relief. However, in the age of digital photocopiers, I'm not sure anyone could tell the difference one way or the other anyhow once you printed it back out.

@Talys Books, in Australia at least, have specific exceptions, allowing you to copy 10% OR a chapter, with various restrictions in regards to usage, one of which is none profit, and I believe for personal or research use.

We just had a seminar on this, but I won't look up my notes at this time.

Pick up friendly games? whats friendly about this formation again?
At a Tournament? Im pretty sure they have rules against bringing copied items over the real deal book.
Practicing for a Tournament? ok.

 Talys wrote:
If you are the owner of the original, there is nothing stopping you from selling the original. There is also nothing stopping you from gifting photocopies of the original to your friends, whomever that may be. Take it out of the context if wargaming, and people do it all the time -- for example, with newspaper clippings. Won an award? Grab a couple of local newspapers, make a bunch of copies for all your family. No copyright violation. Like a health article from an magazine? Photocopy and give it to your aunt, no problem. There isn't even a perceived ethical issue.

I do not believe that there is any such protection or fair use for scanning originals (for personal use), not that I can imagine any sort of injunctive relief. However, in the age of digital photocopiers, I'm not sure anyone could tell the difference one way or the other anyhow once you printed it back out.

Well, like I said, I'm not sure (not in law), so I can't tell if those examples are legal or not. They might even be illegal and just so mundane and difficult to stop that effectively no one cares. As said by Stewart Brand;

"On the one hand information wants to be expensive, because it's so valuable. The right information in the right place just changes your life. On the other hand, information wants to be free, because the cost of getting it out is getting lower and lower all the time. So you have these two fighting against each other."

That's the situation that Games Workshop finds itself in right now. Its product is effectively information-based, and now that 3d printers are gaining more and more common, you're seeing that their models are not products, but are also information. They're information about how a model looks, and that information (properly handled) can be easily replicated. But physical objects aren't copyright-able, hence they can't stop it until the laws catch up.

Anyways... getting off topic...

I hope all the "no copies allowed" whiners all have a real void shield generator with the box it came in.

SocksOfDeath wrote:
I hope all the "no copies allowed" whiners all have a real void shield generator with the box it came in.

I hope so too.

but Auto calling anyone with a problem a whiner is a bit childish is it not?

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Except there is no PDF version. There's the official version on a piece of laminated paper. Like Vrosh Tattersoul in the Dark Vengeance box. Anything else is a scan (from my understanding of it). So it's easy to tell it's not official, but who friggin cares. Rules should not be exclusive to folks with spare money to burn with a specific timeframe. Someone could come in with the rules scribbled on a toilet paper roll and as long as it checks out against my own downloaded version/online source, play it.

This. I don't care if you've bought the formation, or you've made it from your own existing models, or whatever. The rules should still apply.

 General Kroll wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Except there is no PDF version. There's the official version on a piece of laminated paper. Like Vrosh Tattersoul in the Dark Vengeance box. Anything else is a scan (from my understanding of it). So it's easy to tell it's not official, but who friggin cares. Rules should not be exclusive to folks with spare money to burn with a specific timeframe. Someone could come in with the rules scribbled on a toilet paper roll and as long as it checks out against my own downloaded version/online source, play it.

This. I don't care if you've bought the formation, or you've made it from your own existing models, or whatever. The rules should still apply.

Purchasing the rules/rights to use the rules DOES make it exclusive to the folks that spent the money.....
Or are we going into some strange all information should be free because reasons kinda thing.

 Desubot wrote:

SocksOfDeath wrote:
I hope all the "no copies allowed" whiners all have a real void shield generator with the box it came in.

I hope so too.

but Auto calling anyone with a problem a whiner is a bit childish is it not?

It's par the course on the internet to call any dissenters that.

In the era of people possibly needing 4-5 rules sources to play a game, if they want to bring in a "copy" of the specific rules for the formation/unit/model that they want to play, have at it. I have to haul around 4 books to play a normal game with Nids, and a few of those books I use exactly one page of. Also rules being behind a model purchase paywall is just silly.

 Cytharai wrote:
In the era of people possibly needing 4-5 rules sources to play a game, if they want to bring in a "copy" of the specific rules for the formation/unit/model that they want to play, have at it. I have to haul around 4 books to play a normal game with Nids, and a few of those books I use exactly one page of. Also rules being behind a model purchase paywall is just silly.

Diffrence between having and pirating.

I have no issues with some one using a copy if i knew he had the real deal.

But if some random guy i dont know whats to use the thing and unless he can prove to me he owns it. id probably not play it. with the primary reason that its not a very fun formation to fight.

SocksOfDeath wrote:
I hope all the "no copies allowed" whiners all have a real void shield generator with the box it came in.

You understand the difference between models and rules, right?

There is a significant difference between someone who's playing with a downloaded scan of rules, obtained in a legally gray way, and someone who has converted up their own version of a model that was in limited production. So long as the dimensions of the VSG match the official model, there is no real issue.

If the primary reason I dont want to play something is because it isn't fun to play against, then having the rules or not doesn't matter (for example, I wouldn't play horde nids vs adlance because it's just futile). If GW has the foresight of making their "webstore exclusive" rules displayed in a perfectly readable picture, which is hosted on their own website, yeah... I'm not going to make someone buy a limited release just to say "I can now play with these rules that were effectively free anyways".

 Desubot wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Except there is no PDF version. There's the official version on a piece of laminated paper. Like Vrosh Tattersoul in the Dark Vengeance box. Anything else is a scan (from my understanding of it). So it's easy to tell it's not official, but who friggin cares. Rules should not be exclusive to folks with spare money to burn with a specific timeframe. Someone could come in with the rules scribbled on a toilet paper roll and as long as it checks out against my own downloaded version/online source, play it.

This. I don't care if you've bought the formation, or you've made it from your own existing models, or whatever. The rules should still apply.

Purchasing the rules/rights to use the rules DOES make it exclusive to the folks that spent the money.....
Or are we going into some strange all information should be free because reasons kinda thing.

Except the information is freely available...from a certain point of view.