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With Mad Max showing the way forward, I suggest changing it to In God We Thrust.

I'd be OK with that.

 Gitzbitah wrote:
Let's see. Thread drifting into feminism, religion and other land mine issues.

You're making good points. You know i generally like to stay out of off-topic but once again i get curious. Curiosity killed the cat i guess :(.

Trust me, this is nothing.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Maybe because every time something seems ok and fine the way it is they demand something to be changed to fit whatever offended angle they currently have.

And, as hard as it might be to believe, there are actually a lot of problems in society that need to be fixed. It really says a lot that the biggest argument against being "offended" is usually some kind of absurd quota on how many times you can be offended, not a legitimate defense of the thing being criticized.

I could complain i'm offended the way you insult christians

You could, but you wouldn't change anything. Nor is it really a very relevant comparison when Christians are a privileged majority in this country. You're really desperately reaching with this one, perhaps you should just concede defeat?

and then suddenly when women are attacked oh boy oh boy does peregrine flip out.

Err, lol? Pointing out that women are currently under-represented on US money and approving of a change is "flipping out"? Seriously?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
You think that google is more influential to the way America is then our founding fathers.....

Honestly, it kind of is. The founding fathers got some things right and got some things spectacularly wrong, but much of what they did was borrowed from elsewhere and we haven't really ended up any better off than the other former British colonies. It's quite likely that US history wouldn't be all that different if those founding fathers had never existed. Google (and the internet in general), on the other hand, represents a massive change in how society works. Having easily available information sharing changes everything, and google is a big part of transforming the internet from a silly thing for geeks to world-changing infrastructure.

Regardless, people are now commenting that the only reason we are upset about this is because we want to fight against feminists/feminazi and SJW's.

Yep, that's exactly accurate: this isn't about the merits of the person on the $10 bill, it's about opposing SJW TUMBLR FEMINAZIS. If the US government quietly replaced Hamilton with Reagan many, if not most, of the people opposing the current change would praise the government for finally granting appropriate recognition to a true American hero.

But on the flip side why are they so hell bent on changing random aspects of our society that have worked perfectly for close to 100 years?

Because things haven't worked perfectly for close to 100 years?

peregrine if your going to pick and choose parts of posts then I don't see a point in debating you on this.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
You think that google is more influential to the way America is then our founding fathers

By a wide margin yes. Google, along with PC's and the internet are some of the greatest technological inventions we've ever made, effecting not just America (though we've benefited from them more than just about anybody else) but the entire world.

That your only appreciation for it comes from looking up porn and pop culture says more about you than me. It's equivalent to me saying that the invention of cars wasn't a big deal because the only thing I use mine for is picking up chicks at the bar two blocks away.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
peregrine if your going to pick and choose parts of posts then I don't see a point in debating you on this.

If your best argument is that I didn't quote every single word of your post then I think that's a pretty clear concession of defeat.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
peregrine if your going to pick and choose parts of posts then I don't see a point in debating you on this.

If your best argument is that I didn't quote every single word of your post then I think that's a pretty clear concession of defeat.

Or your picking parts that make zero sense when combined with what your saying. But hey keep cherry picking im sure nobody bothers to read the entire thread.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
You think that google is more influential to the way America is then our founding fathers.....

Honestly, it kind of is. The founding fathers got some things right and got some things spectacularly wrong, but much of what they did was borrowed from elsewhere and we haven't really ended up any better off than the other former British colonies. It's quite likely that US history wouldn't be all that different if those founding fathers had never existed. Google (and the internet in general), on the other hand, represents a massive change in how society works. Having easily available information sharing changes everything, and google is a big part of transforming the internet from a silly thing for geeks to world-changing infrastructure.

Indeed. New research is coming out showing that everyone, from prestigious bodies like the Wall Street Journal on down to rags like "Teen Weekly" (or whatever one of those is called) have been forced to change their entire writing structure because of google. Reading retention has plummeted in recent academic testing (where questions are based on something mentioned days or weeks ago). While some of what I'm talking about is more directly resulting from social media such as Twitter taking off, basically speaking, none of the social media would have come about if it hadn't been for google.

I know many professors in colleges love to use the term "global economy", it's gotten to the point where it's almost a buzzword, or a bingo card term. But with google, the interconnectedness of everything and everyone has become that much tighter. Personally, I'm not going to sit here and argue that google is MORE influential than say, Thomas Jefferson, because that little document that Mr. J wrote basically laid the groundwork for google to take off. Of course, I would be terrible if I didn't mention that the course of 20th century technology would look vastly different if it weren't for two men: Alan Turing, and Nikola Tesla. Sure, we'd have electricity, and radios and some form of computerization. But we wouldn't be as "advanced" as we are today without those two men.

Let's put the two of them on there, even though Turing isn't American, and Tesla was such a germaphobe that putting a him on a bill would be a great irony.

Tesla? Really? The guy wasn't really the huge genius people make him out to be.

Sure he was smart, but at the same time he was really really stupid. His ideas were wildly impractical.

While i like tesla he wasn't american born and i don't think that totally counts. He's from what country originally....Romania maybe?

@Peregrine: Just convince yourself you're the winner of everything and never understand that maybe just for a second you might be wrong. I mean even if it'd develop you more as a person to understand that you might just be wrong sometimes or seeing things in another way might help you see the other side by god just try to blot it out with all your might because that's what winners do.

I'm not even being unfair here. If you want women on money go ahead. I just don't want alexander hamilton to be shut up because you decide "He's a white guy screw him!" Oh and just for your information i've known plenty of white people from very unfortunate backgrounds if you're going into that. Somebody at my work used to live in russia when it was still a part of the soviet union and though he's the nicest guy ever and you couldn't understand him he's glad to work a lower class job and he's happy for what the usa has done for him because in the soviet union things often sucked and going outside of what society told you to do put you in a very bad position but we all know that already.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
@Peregrine: Just convince yourself you're the winner of everything and never understand that maybe just for a second you might be wrong. I mean even if it'd develop you more as a person to understand that you might just be wrong sometimes or seeing things in another way might help you see the other side by god just try to blot it out with all your might because that's what winners do.

So do you actually have anything constructive to offer, or are you just going to complain about how "narrow-minded" I am because I won't admit that you're right?

I just don't want alexander hamilton to be shut up because you decide "He's a white guy screw him!"

Why is Hamilton so important to you? Before this controversy happened could you have even told me who is on the $10 bill? If you can honestly say "yes" then you're part of a small minority.

And apparently it needs mentioning again, but other countries change who is on their money without a big controversy over how the previous person is entitled to be there forever. It's just the normal process, not some kind of horrible insult to the person whose time on the bill has ended. I suspect it would have been the same here if the government just quietly put Reagan on the $10 bill, and most of the people complaining about the current change wouldn't care nearly as much when they can't complain about SJW TUMBLR FEMINAZIS ruining everything.

Before this controversy happened could you have even told me who is on the $10 bill? If you can honestly say "yes" then you're part of a small minority.

I think that's a bit of a stretch

Of course, I agree. Seriously people. Of all the things in the world to be upset about, why the feth has this of all things, gone on for 7 pages?

 Peregrine wrote:

I just don't want alexander hamilton to be shut up because you decide "He's a white guy screw him!"

Why is Hamilton so important to you? Before this controversy happened could you have even told me who is on the $10 bill? If you can honestly say "yes" then you're part of a small minority.

And apparently it needs mentioning again, but other countries change who is on their money without a big controversy over how the previous person is entitled to be there forever. It's just the normal process, not some kind of horrible insult to the person whose time on the bill has ended. I suspect it would have been the same here if the government just quietly put Reagan on the $10 bill, and most of the people complaining about the current change wouldn't care nearly as much when they can't complain about SJW TUMBLR FEMINAZIS ruining everything.

Yes i knew he was on the 10 dollar bill. It only says his name right under his picture.

If i remember he did try setting up the banks and thomas jefferson's vice president aaron burr shot him (i remember even an oreo commercial or another commercial mentioned this way back).

I know more about andrew jackson which is why i'd rather him be replaced. I know about his destruction of the bank, his 'trail of tears' for all native americans (once again dude was a jerk), his generalship during the war of 1812 and the fact he lost a lot of family in the revolutionary war and gained a hatred of all foreigners and indians. I even know about his adopted son of native american descent which was part of a massacre he incurred while a general in the war of 1812. I also know his adopted son later died of some illness and his wife (which was divorced and that was a big deal at the time) which died partly in his view because of his political opponent running for president. I also know he was a lawyer and judge i think and he dueled a crap ton of people.

So yeah i know a decent amount. I know this because of an american history class i took a couple years ago that lasted up till 1870 or 1876 or so.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Yes i knew he was on the 10 dollar bill. It only says his name right under his picture.

I mean without looking at it. If, out of nowhere, I asked you to name the person on each bill would you have been able to do it without looking it up or getting out your wallet to check?

If i remember he did try setting up the banks and thomas jefferson's vice president aaron burr shot him (i remember even an oreo commercial or another commercial mentioned this way back).

IOW, you know very little about him but you're really sure that he needs to be on the $10 bill and all the SJW TUMBLR FEMINAZIS need to shut up and stop trying to remove him. Perhaps if you barely know more than the first sentence of a wikipedia article about Hamilton it's a sign that you don't really care much about him and your entire "keep him on the $10" argument is based on reflexive opposition to people you don't like?

 Peregrine wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Yes i knew he was on the 10 dollar bill. It only says his name right under his picture.

I mean without looking at it. If, out of nowhere, I asked you to name the person on each bill would you have been able to do it without looking it up or getting out your wallet to check?

If i remember he did try setting up the banks and thomas jefferson's vice president aaron burr shot him (i remember even an oreo commercial or another commercial mentioned this way back).

IOW, you know very little about him but you're really sure that he needs to be on the $10 bill and all the SJW TUMBLR FEMINAZIS need to shut up and stop trying to remove him. Perhaps if you barely know more than the first sentence of a wikipedia article about Hamilton it's a sign that you don't really care much about him and your entire "keep him on the $10" argument is based on reflexive opposition to people you don't like?

1 dollar bill: washington, 5 dollar bill: lincoln, 10 dollar bill alexander hamilton, 20 dollar bill andrew jackson, 50 dollar bill ullyses s. grant (spelling?), 100 dollar bill ben franklin.

What more do you want? Oh but i guess i just keep all that handy in case an argument pops up.

You know what? I think i'm gonna put you on the ignore list. I swear you must track me down in every thread in off-topic just to counter-point me. Go right ahead buddy. Continue to cut out the fact i knew a good amount about jackson or the fact i'm totally willing to have some women on money because you need a 100% completionist victory. Enjoy your imagined victory and you can do so with an imaginary crowd of spectators cheering when nobody really cares.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
1 dollar bill: washington, 5 dollar bill: lincoln, 10 dollar bill alexander hamilton, 20 dollar bill andrew jackson, 50 dollar bill ullyses s. grant (spelling?), 100 dollar bill ben franklin.

And if you honestly knew that before this discussion came up then I bet you're in a small minority. I certainly couldn't have told you who is on the $10 bill before now, and once this "controversy" disappears I'll probably forget again until I see a new bill for the first time (and then immediately go back to not caring). And TBH your minority is probably only going to get smaller and smaller as cash becomes even more irrelevant than it already is and fewer people encounter physical money anymore.

You know what? I think i'm gonna put you on the ignore list.

There you go with the ultimate concession of defeat. You can't win the argument, so you'll just tell everyone how superior you are and how I'm not worth your time.

I swear you must track me down in every thread in off-topic just to counter-point me. Go right ahead buddy.

I don't, but feel free to be paranoid. I don't even know who you are, beyond your posts in this thread.

Continue to cut out the fact i knew a good amount about jackson

I cut it out because it's irrelevant. Jackson isn't on the $20 and isn't going to be replaced in the immediate future. Meanwhile I did address the relevant fact that you know pretty much nothing about Hamilton, but you care very strongly about keeping him on the $10.

or the fact i'm totally willing to have some women on money

Then why are you protesting about putting one on the $10, and complaining about how people shouldn't object to the lack of women on US money and should just accept that life isn't fair?

You should have seen the mess over here when they replaced Billy Connelly with Lorraine Kelly on the £15 note. There was blood in the streets.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
It's called "national pride" and "proud to be an American". Our founding fathers had the greatest impact on our nation being what it is. Even if some people in this thread seem to think they've gotten stale.

Your founding fathers didn't stop slavery or give the vote to women.

Fundamentally the objection to having a woman or a black person on a bank note is an SIW problem.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

Your founding fathers didn't stop slavery or give the vote to women.

All* men** are created*** equal****.

*Black men only count as 3/5s of a man.
**Get back in the kitchen woman. I got equality work to do.
***By god obviously. Murica.
****The old boys will be fine. Good luck everybody else.

/endtongueincheek

Grace Kelly should be on the $10 because dude its Grace Kelly!

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Grace_Kelly

If you join my time machine project, once I have repopulated Europe with descendants of Kilkrazy, let's replace Alexander Hamilton with Grace Kelly! That will solve all the arguments.

Deal.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Tesla? Really? The guy wasn't really the huge genius people make him out to be.

Sure he was smart, but at the same time he was really really stupid. His ideas were wildly impractical.

So does your power grid use AC or DC?

Also, scientists seem to hold him in pretty high regard considering one of the SI units is named after him

Tesla should only be currency if it builds a static charge and does a cool arc of electricity when you take it out. Come on people, we need some currency pizzazz!

 Grey Templar wrote:

Sure he was smart, but at the same time he was really really stupid. His ideas were wildly impractical.

He was an idealist, yes... But if you really take a look at what he was doing, you will see that he was anything but stupid. I have a copy of the book that collected his writings, experiments, etc. such as the remains are, and the dude really was a genius. Nearly every one of his experiments/inventions, if they start off impractical, would end up being practical in some way down the road (he just hadn't invented that "thing" yet)

His AC generator is still basically the industry standard for how power is generated. If you listen to a radio in the car, you're listening to a Tesla invention.


Truth be told, I'm not really suggesting putting him on money, I was illustrating the level of impact the guy had on the modern world.... As well as pointing out that if we DID put him on money, the irony would be extremely thick, because he was such a phobic person in life.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Sure he was smart, but at the same time he was really really stupid. His ideas were wildly impractical.

He was an idealist, yes... But if you really take a look at what he was doing, you will see that he was anything but stupid. I have a copy of the book that collected his writings, experiments, etc. such as the remains are, and the dude really was a genius. Nearly every one of his experiments/inventions, if they start off impractical, would end up being practical in some way down the road (he just hadn't invented that "thing" yet)

His AC generator is still basically the industry standard for how power is generated. If you listen to a radio in the car, you're listening to a Tesla invention.


Truth be told, I'm not really suggesting putting him on money, I was illustrating the level of impact the guy had on the modern world.... As well as pointing out that if we DID put him on money, the irony would be extremely thick, because he was such a phobic person in life.

He had some great ideas and some wacky ideas. Some ideas we are finding out are really capable of working. Take for instance his wireless electricity. Everybody thought he was all sorts of nutty for thinking it could be done. Turns out, we can power devices with wifi now.

Thanks Tesla!

 Peregrine wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
@Peregrine: Just convince yourself you're the winner of everything and never understand that maybe just for a second you might be wrong. I mean even if it'd develop you more as a person to understand that you might just be wrong sometimes or seeing things in another way might help you see the other side by god just try to blot it out with all your might because that's what winners do.

So do you actually have anything constructive to offer, or are you just going to complain about how "narrow-minded" I am because I won't admit that you're right?

I just don't want alexander hamilton to be shut up because you decide "He's a white guy screw him!"

Why is Hamilton so important to you? Before this controversy happened could you have even told me who is on the $10 bill? If you can honestly say "yes" then you're part of a small minority.

And apparently it needs mentioning again, but other countries change who is on their money without a big controversy over how the previous person is entitled to be there forever. It's just the normal process, not some kind of horrible insult to the person whose time on the bill has ended. I suspect it would have been the same here if the government just quietly put Reagan on the $10 bill, and most of the people complaining about the current change wouldn't care nearly as much when they can't complain about SJW TUMBLR FEMINAZIS ruining everything.

If you are an American citizen and you have graduated at least high school and you can't tell me who is on the $1, $5, $10 or $20 then you have issues that supersede a lot of other problems in your little world. Also if you really think that the invention of google has had a more profound impact on the United States then our founding fathers then you need to go back to elementary school and start over. The internet is wonderful and google is a spectacular search engine, but at the end of the day google wouldn't even exist if it weren't for our founding fathers and the documents/laws and institutions that they made/invented and wrote.

As far as the Feminazi TUMBLR SJW nonsense your spouting off about, it wouldn't have mattered WHO came up with this idiotic idea I would have opposed it. If the Republican party and democrat party had gotten together and both decided this was a stellar idea I still would have argued against it. So you can keep your less then vague/tactful insinuation that I am a Misogynist or racist/sexist to yourself.

Lastly, why is it bad to fight against change for the sake of change. The old argument of don't fix something if it is not broken springs to mind. Furthermore, I don't care what other countries do with their currency, America hasn't changed the US currency since it was standardized and made into the bill size we currently have. So because another country does something then we to must do it? Well the Brits drive on the other side of the road does that mean we should all switch to that to because ....Balance? French people allow children to drink at 16 and hard booze at 18 should we change our policy to that as well? Just because other countries do something in no way effects how we do things in the United States.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
If you are an American citizen and you have graduated at least high school and you can't tell me who is on the $1, $5, $10 or $20 then you have issues that supersede a lot of other problems in your little world.

And just what issues would those be? It's 2015 and debit cards exist, I use cash maybe once a month at most and I don't really care whose picture is on it. I think the real problem here is that you're confusing ability to recite meaningless trivia ("who is on our money") with being a functioning adult.

Also if you really think that the invention of google has had a more profound impact on the United States then our founding fathers then you need to go back to elementary school and start over. The internet is wonderful and google is a spectacular search engine, but at the end of the day google wouldn't even exist if it weren't for our founding fathers and the documents/laws and institutions that they made/invented and wrote.

This is just hilariously wrong. Are you aware that other countries also have freedom, capitalism, technology research, etc? Are you familiar with a British guy named Turing who contributed just a tiny bit of computer design? The founding fathers contributed essentially nothing to the development of the internet (and technology in general), and we'd probably be exactly where we are right now technology-wise if they'd never existed.

But I think, like the issue of knowing who is on the money, you're comparing blind patriotism and founding father worship with actual historical significance. You're hardly alone in suffering from this problem, but it doesn't mean you're right.

As far as the Feminazi TUMBLR SJW nonsense your spouting off about, it wouldn't have mattered WHO came up with this idiotic idea I would have opposed it. If the Republican party and democrat party had gotten together and both decided this was a stellar idea I still would have argued against it. So you can keep your less then vague/tactful insinuation that I am a Misogynist or racist/sexist to yourself.

You personally? Maybe not. But I bet a solid majority of the people who are outraged about the proposed change would have praised the government for finally giving proper respect to a true American hero if they'd decided to put Reagan on the $10 bill instead.

Also, you'll note that the main target of the SJW TUMBLR FEMINAZI bit is flamingkillamajig, who doesn't even know who Hamilton is and why he is important but is very sure that removing him would be a horrible idea. It's pretty clear that his entire objection to changing who is on the $10 bill is based on opposition to people he doesn't like, not an informed opinion about the relative historical merits of various candidates.

Lastly, why is it bad to fight against change for the sake of change.

Because it isn't change for the sake of change. There's a reason for the proposed change.

Furthermore, I don't care what other countries do with their currency, America hasn't changed the US currency since it was standardized and made into the bill size we currently have. So because another country does something then we to must do it?

The point is that you (and other people) are acting like removing a person from a bill is some kind of horrible insult when other countries do it all the time without any controversy. We don't have to frequently change our currency designs just because other countries do it, but if you're going to claim that there's something inherently wrong with making changes then you need to deal with the fact that other countries do it.