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I am thinking of taking the following to an upcoming tournament:

Demi-Company x2

Captain
Chaplain

Tac squad (5 men) meltagun, combi-melta, Razorback
Tac squad (5 men) meltagun, combi-melta, Razorback
Tac squad (5 men) meltagun, combi-melta, Razorback
Tac squad (5 men) meltagun, combi-melta, Razorback
Tac squad (5 men) meltagun, combi-melta, Drop Pod
Tac squad (5 men) meltagun, combi-melta, Drop Pod

Land Speeder
Land Speeder

Devastator Squad (5 men) lascannon x4, Drop Pod
Devastator Squad (5 men) missile launcher x4, Razorback


Armoured Task Force

Techmarine
Thunderfire Cannon
Thunderfire Cannon
Thunderfire Cannon
Predator
Predator
Vindicator
Vindicator


And it all clocks at 1845 pts.
Thoughts?
Is a marine list viable nowdays without grav?

It is indeed very comp, just per the number of units on the field you'll have a huge table control factor.

It's very true however that if you'll face a Smart opponent able to efficiently maw down your numbers turn after turn and in the same time avoid your retaliation (your output isn't particulary scary), the game will very probably end with a tie in Maelstrom or a close final anyway.

Unfortunately, with Gladius lists and the like, who will start first AND wouldn't see his alphastrike nullified will automatically lead.

Why land speeders?

Why the Pods? Just more razors seems more useful.

What weapons do the Preds have? They aren't really worth it for just an autocannon if you're taking them stock? So around I don't really like the ATF config.

Not sure if IF tactics would be better with that many bolters and the Devs. But I never roll 6s so without an Apoth you get very little from IH tactics.

Keep the pods, they are so underrated ATM
because of TL Hbolters for some reason.

Land speeders provide a cheap alternative for the obligatory fast attack slot in the gladius and they are extremely fast objective secured units.
Predators are auto/las, my bad for not posting it, as it augments the list's tank-hunting abilities.
Drop pods provide a way to land some melta turn one and some objective secured units on the other side of the board

You are correct about the IF tactics, it does add a lot and it seems the general consensus is that IH vehicles do not get ITWND.

Thanks for the replies!

Do you it is competitive enough?

I think it pretty strong. It should give you board control in the first place.
However, not sure about damage output.

Yeah, terrifying to see that coming towards across the field. But I agree with the other in lack of hard-hitting weapons. What would you do against Knights/wraithknights/riptides??

spartiatis wrote:
Land speeders provide a cheap alternative for the obligatory fast attack slot,

I think his point may have been that you don't get the free transports with Land Speeders.

If Preds are autolas (one of my favourite builds) take the 3rd and put them in a unit for tank and monster hunter.

Though overall I do find the lack of upgraded Razors to be a waste. For me one of the main reasons to take the battle company is for 20 point Razors.

Agreed. Land Speeders are nice, even with just a couple of HBs as Fists, or a couple of MMs generally, so maybe look more closely at the Suppression Force with 3 Whirlwinds for the very reasonably pointed Datalink Telemetry Suppressive Bombardment on top of the usual Speeder support rolls. That way you could field 2 Assault Squads in your Battle Company and get 2 more free Razorbacks and hold your Assaults back with flamers and MB (cheap) to either hit advancing troops, hordes, or to tie up deep striking suicide squads.

The free Razors should really be filled out with Las/plas, TL/LC Imo. Though HB are underrated too, especially as Fists. I also like las devs for their long range punch (and Fist tank hunter on top). This formation will have a LOT of firepower, with a lot of it over 24", making Marines competitively Shooty again, just for the vast amount of medium and heavy guns with a decent range they can now bring to the table at reasonable price. Bearing in mind that although Razors aren't resilient, the sheer number of them, with the sheer number of MSUs with a heavy and the vast numbers of objective secured units makes for a very scary army.

What format is this for? I have been testing a white scars gladius and have had success with it.

The tournament is standard maelstrom missions from the book.

Except from hit & run and potential scout to bring the razors closer is there anything else that WS bring to the gladius?

Automatically the problem with iron hands spam of tanks is that you don't have iwnd, only your dreads do.

This could have been done by pretty much any other army and have been just as good.

The second thing is that if your big tanks get got your basically out of options for tackling heavy tanks. A land raider would just laugh at this force and toy with it, in fact backing hm up with stuff with autocannons and lascannons you'd just wallop everything

I'd also like to point out that dark Angels sky silencer spam would eat this alive. The raven synchronized flying team has enough raw firepower to drop 4-5 tanks a turn and you have no hope beyond snap shots to bring them down. Assuming you fail to bring any of them down, you'd lose all your armor by the bottom of turn 4 and you'd be at the mercy of vortex bombs and vindicator pie plates (as the rift cannon is now basically a demolisher with blind and ic). Not to mention the myriad pile of lascannons and heavy bolter a flying overhead.

 ionusx wrote:
Automatically the problem with iron hands spam of tanks is that you don't have iwnd, only your dreads do.

This could have been done by pretty much any other army and have been just as good.

The second thing is that if your big tanks get got your basically out of options for tackling heavy tanks. A land raider would just laugh at this force and toy with it, in fact backing hm up with stuff with autocannons and lascannons you'd just wallop everything

I'd also like to point out that dark Angels sky silencer spam would eat this alive. The raven synchronized flying team has enough raw firepower to drop 4-5 tanks a turn and you have no hope beyond snap shots to bring them down.

Does it? Can you back that up with actual facts? Because the DA fliers are terrible at moment. Sure they MAY get a boost in the new codex but they may not (like tac marines, worst troops choice in the game got no buff in this codex).

It's been confirmed, rift cannon is s10 ap2, time bomb force i save are remove from play, black swords are s7 ap3

There's enough lascannons, rift cannons, s7 missles, and time bombs to make your day miserable considering you get three planes in a formation with special reserve rules letting them come on all at the same time. (Two nephs and a dt)

Their paper thin but your not exactly bristling with skyfire here even a nephilim will be a chore to take down using snapshots on everything that has a non pipe late gun.

I think he can reasonably expect to take down an AV11 flyer a turn. What do you mean by confirmed? Is the codex out? Are full rules posted in pictures.

 ionusx wrote:
Automatically the problem with iron hands spam of tanks is that you don't have iwnd, only your dreads do.

All Iron Hands vehicles and characters have IWND.

Cindis wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
Automatically the problem with iron hands spam of tanks is that you don't have iwnd, only your dreads do.

All Iron Hands vehicles and characters have IWND.

Unfortunately not you need Chapter Tactics to benefit from Chapter Tactics. Unless you're saying all CTs apply to vehicles?

That would be extremely convenient
Ultramarine vehicles would benefit from the re-rolls the doctrines provide

Fliers are not very dominant in my area, so far i have made do without any dedicated anti-air.

So, i decided to change the Chapter tactics to Imperial Fists (my army is a custom chapter, i can play whatever i prefer )
What would you modify to upgrade the Razors to las/plas (except the third Thunderfire Cannon )?

spartiatis wrote:
The tournament is standard maelstrom missions from the book.

Except from hit & run and potential scout to bring the razors closer is there anything else that WS bring to the gladius?

Hit and run is huge, as is rerolling your run move

FYI your vehicles would benefit from IH Chapter Tactics.
It clearly says characters and vehicles gain IWND.

 smurfwedge wrote:
FYI your vehicles would benefit from IH Chapter Tactics.
It clearly says characters and vehicles gain IWND.

Imo it will not die on rhinos is not a big deal, most hyper competitive lists have no problem cracking 2-4 rhinos a turn. I lose on average 8-9 of my 12 transports per game (right now 6 rhinos, 2 razorbacks, and 4 drop pods).

 smurfwedge wrote:
FYI your vehicles would benefit from IH Chapter Tactics.
It clearly says characters and vehicles gain IWND.

So you believe all CTs benefit vehicles (as all the other say Models) in which case why do some vehicles not have CTs?

Thanks GW for not being super clear on the rules.... -.-

See, last dex, people ran IWND on mech without the CT on them. So people are probably going to do the same.

Last edition there was a specific exception pointing out all vehicles got the benefit regardless of CTs. Does such an exception exist in the new rules?

 FlingitNow wrote:
Last edition there was a specific exception pointing out all vehicles got the benefit regardless of CTs. Does such an exception exist in the new rules?

To be fair I think you are correct mate.
The rules does state characters and vehicles but if you look at the individual unit pages it must say Chapter Tactics under special rules.
If its not there then I assume it doesn't apply obviously.
So no the Rhinos and Razors don't get chapter tactics I wouldn't think

 FlingitNow wrote:
Last edition there was a specific exception pointing out all vehicles got the benefit regardless of CTs. Does such an exception exist in the new rules?

There is no such exception. Barring a future FAQ, non-Dread Iron Hands Vehicles DO NOT currently have Chapter Tactics and therefore DO NOT benefit from the IWND that is granted by the Chapter Tactics special rule.

This may possibly be an error, but it is current RaW.