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So, the codex says, and I quote.

"A model wearing terminator armour may replace his storm bolter with one of the following."

I know I've missed something, but why again doesn't that allow terminators to take combi weapons?

In order to purchase items from a section of the wargear list, a model's entry must allow it to.

Terminators do not have permission to take items from the Terminator Weapons section of the wargear list (or, indeed, any section of the wargear list), so they can't take items off it.

Where do the rules say it though? Just need a page number.

No rules say Terminators can't.
However, no rules say they can.

 raiden wrote:
Where do the rules say it though? Just need a page number.

Look at the entry for terminators - where does it give you permission to purchase items off the wargear list?

The rules also don't say you can't take a Dark Eldar Splinter Cannon or a Necron Heavy Gauss Cannon. The rules will normally say what you CAN do, not what you can't.

To be fair there sort of is a rule saying they can. The one quoted here:

 raiden wrote:
So, the codex says, and I quote.

"A model wearing terminator armour may replace his storm bolter with one of the following."

I know I've missed something, but why again doesn't that allow terminators to take combi weapons?

They are models wearing Terminator armour. If there isn't a rule that specifically overrides that then surely it applies?

They don't have access to that section of the wargear list, though. You can only takes items from the list if the unit entry says you can.

That rule ("A model wearing terminator armour may replace his storm bolter with one of the following.") is so PA Captains and the like can't take items from the Terminator Weapons list (because they have access to it even without Terminator Armour).

Stux wrote:
To be fair there sort of is a rule saying they can. The one quoted here:

 raiden wrote:
So, the codex says, and I quote.

"A model wearing terminator armour may replace his storm bolter with one of the following."

I know I've missed something, but why again doesn't that allow terminators to take combi weapons?

They are models wearing Terminator armour. If there isn't a rule that specifically overrides that then surely it applies?

So you believe any model can take Relics of the Chapter?

I see what your asking.

Answer: there is no rule that says that if you don't have access to the wargear chart, then you cannot access it, however how the rules work is that you have to have a rule that says you can do something.

Otherwise you'd get things such as, I'm gonna give my terminator a heavy gauss cannon, because the rules don't say I can't take it.

Cool Shield Eternal Landraiders here I come!

 Formosa wrote:
I see what your asking.

Answer: there is no rule that says that if you don't have access to the wargear chart, then you cannot access it, however how the rules work is that you have to have a rule that says you can do something.

Otherwise you'd get things such as, I'm gonna give my terminator a heavy gauss cannon, because the rules don't say I can't take it.

But there is a rule saying they have access to that chart. The one quoted in the original post. It clearly says models with terminator armour have access to that chart, so unless there is a specific rule forbidding regular terminators from accessing it then surely we have to assume they do by RAW right?

I'm not saying it's not ridiculous, just by RAW it appears to be legal...

Stux wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I see what your asking.

Answer: there is no rule that says that if you don't have access to the wargear chart, then you cannot access it, however how the rules work is that you have to have a rule that says you can do something.

Otherwise you'd get things such as, I'm gonna give my terminator a heavy gauss cannon, because the rules don't say I can't take it.

But there is a rule saying they have access to that chart. The one quoted in the original post. It clearly says models with terminator armour have access to that chart, so unless there is a specific rule forbidding regular terminators from accessing it then surely we have to assume they do by RAW right?

I'm not saying it's not ridiculous, just by RAW it appears to be legal...

So shield eternal land raiders right?

 FlingitNow wrote:

Stux wrote:
To be fair there sort of is a rule saying they can. The one quoted here:

 raiden wrote:
So, the codex says, and I quote.

"A model wearing terminator armour may replace his storm bolter with one of the following."

I know I've missed something, but why again doesn't that allow terminators to take combi weapons?

They are models wearing Terminator armour. If there isn't a rule that specifically overrides that then surely it applies?

So you believe any model can take Relics of the Chapter?

Not the same thing. The terminator chart in questions says models in terminator armou have access to it. So they do right? That's the permission.

Relics (presumably, I don't have the codex to hand) don't say anything equivalent to that statement that would grant models permission.

The Relics say a model may replace one weapon with...

So yes a Land Raider is a model. If you're allowing Terminators to use that rule you're allowing Land Raiders to take Relics. Or Hive Tyrants for that matter. Shield Eternal Black Mace Hive Tyrant here I come.

I'm not saying Id actually allow it either. Just that this is poorly implemented, and seems to assume a rule about wargear that apparently doesn't actually exist.

Stux wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I see what your asking.

Answer: there is no rule that says that if you don't have access to the wargear chart, then you cannot access it, however how the rules work is that you have to have a rule that says you can do something.

Otherwise you'd get things such as, I'm gonna give my terminator a heavy gauss cannon, because the rules don't say I can't take it.

But there is a rule saying they have access to that chart. The one quoted in the original post. It clearly says models with terminator armour have access to that chart, so unless there is a specific rule forbidding regular terminators from accessing it then surely we have to assume they do by RAW right?

I'm not saying it's not ridiculous, just by RAW it appears to be legal...

No that rule says if you have terminator armour you can swap the weapon for x, it's not giving you access to the chart in the first place.

You saying A+B=z because nothing says you can't just skip the rest of the alphabet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also my terminators now have fleet, nothing jn the rules say I can't just add usr's on turn 3, at 13:41 every leap year.

We are telling you exactly why it works the way it does. The rulebook gives you the allowances in the game. It does not say 'a model may not move more than seven inches or fly through the air, or go under the table, or be shoved up your opponent's nose, or up their bum, or thrown across the room', it says 'a model moves six inches'. The rules tell you what you can do with it, and if it doesn't say it can, it can't do it.

The Wargear List is a list. To use the list, you have to have access to that list of items. It is a REFERENCE on points costs to save printing space. If you do not have access to that list, you don't have access to that list. A list is not rules. A list is a list, rules are rules. You are assuming they are the same thing when they aren't.

I don't have the new Codex: Space Marines, but if it's anything like Codex: Blood Angels, at the top of the wargear list page it will read something like (emphasis mine):

"These lists detail the points values of various items of wargear available to units in your army. Many unit entries in the datasheets that follow may include wargear options from one or more of these lists – in each instance, the datasheet will tell you (in bold text) exactly which of these lists you may use. Rules for these items can be found in the Appendix."

Additionally, again assuming it's anything like Codex: Blood Angels, there should be something along the lines of the following on the "Forces of the Space Marines" page:

"Options: This section lists all of the upgrades you may add to the unit if you wish to do so, alongside the associated points cost for each."

 Mr. Shine wrote:
I don't have the new Codex: Space Marines, but if it's anything like Codex: Blood Angels, at the top of the wargear list page it will read something like (emphasis mine):

"These lists detail the points values of various items of wargear available to units in your army. Many unit entries in the datasheets that follow may include wargear options from one or more of these lists – in each instance, the datasheet will tell you (in bold text) exactly which of these lists you may use. Rules for these items can be found in the Appendix."

Additionally, again assuming it's anything like Codex: Blood Angels, there should be something along the lines of the following on the "Forces of the Space Marines" page:

"Options: This section lists all of the upgrades you may add to the unit if you wish to do so, alongside the associated points cost for each."

Yes both of those are present in the SM codex on pages 115 & 114 respectively.

Ah cool. Well that sounds like the rule the OP was after all along.