Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Is it the codex DA players deserved after all these years? Have their prayed been finally answered?

I don't begrudge them at all. And a pox any who complains about IoM crap! DA have been terrible for a long, long time.

The poll seems more than a little biased.

I think it's great. Definitely fixes the old one.

I think they've made an interesting 'chapter trait' of Grim Resolve rather than the previous Stubborn. Think it's a very good idea they produced this after the main SM codex. Happy the flyers are, imo, fixed, although still trying to get my head around a Nephilim with HBs and LCs as it's a bit of a jack of all trades.

Was a little disappointed not to see things like special ammo for company veterans, Centurions, Thunderfire Cannons etc. but I guess Dark Angels get enough tools already and we got grav!!! Annoyed you can't legally represent the masters, chaplains and librarians of the Ravenwing properly as they don't get the Ravenwing rule when on a bike. That's my main gripe.

All in all, I think it's great!

You need a praise the sun option.

It will be a pretty solid book if the blatantly obvious rules errors get fixed via errata. Pretty poorly written, as far as rules clarifications go, with obvious loop holes anyone familiar with the game would instantly find. How GW didn't, is anyone's guess.

I'm in the meh category mainly due to the rules errors/weirdness. Bikes don't come with bolters (in the digital rulebook,) the only Ravenwing HQ is Sammael, Company Masters still can't take bikes (though they are allowed Terminator armour...etc.)

Clarence wrote:
I'm in the meh category mainly due to the rules errors/weirdness. Bikes don't come with bolters (in the digital rulebook,) the only Ravenwing HQ is Sammael, Company Masters still can't take bikes (though they are allowed Terminator armour...etc.)

Because bikes belong to the 2nd company and they have a company master by the name of Sammael?

Where's the 'OP' option?

SGTPozy wrote:
Where's the 'OP' option?

You'll find it filed under "Awsome!".

 vipoid wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
Where's the 'OP' option?

You'll find it filed under "Awsome!".

So nowadays it is "awesome" to be OP? Oh how times change, I remember hating how Tau were considered OP in 6th and I wouldn't dare call it 'awesome' *sigh*

SGTPozy wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
Where's the 'OP' option?

You'll find it filed under "Awsome!".

So nowadays it is "awesome" to be OP? Oh how times change, I remember hating how Tau were considered OP in 6th and I wouldn't dare call it 'awesome' *sigh*

Over Powered and Dark Angels for about 20 years or so were never in the same sentence. Now that it can be, it's AWESOME!

In other words, it's nice for DA players who for the most times were playing at a disadvantage against most armies. So the feeling is nice to be "Up there" now. Let them have their due. The deserve it. Tyranids and Chaos Space Marines are hopefully next with the goodness as well. (and yes others that I have forgotten to mention.)

SGTPozy wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
Where's the 'OP' option?

You'll find it filed under "Awsome!".

So nowadays it is "awesome" to be OP? Oh how times change, I remember hating how Tau were considered OP in 6th and I wouldn't dare call it 'awesome' *sigh*

Bear in mind that isn't my view.

I'm simply looking at the options. At the low end of the scale we have "Underpowered" and "Terrible" (fair enough). Above those we have "pretty solid". So, above that, where you'd expect to find an option for Overpowered, we instead only have "Awsome".

It therefore seemed logical that 'Overpowered' has simply been rolled into "awsome".

There's a reason I said the poll appeared biased.

I'm just happy they are on par with the other Codexes. Granted I've just had a flick through but full BS Overwatch sounds vicious, especially to my Orks (no bias, promise )

Hoping that the other factions get a similar deal with their Codexes.

"Bear in mind that isn't my view"

It was mostly aimed at the OP so sorry if it sounded like it was aimed at you

It is pretty bias.

SGTPozy wrote:

It was mostly aimed at the OP so sorry if it sounded like it was aimed at you

No worries.

I just thought I should make my position clear.

 Bhazakhain wrote:
I think it's great. Definitely fixes the old one.

I think they've made an interesting 'chapter trait' of Grim Resolve rather than the previous Stubborn. Think it's a very good idea they produced this after the main SM codex. Happy the flyers are, imo, fixed, although still trying to get my head around a Nephilim with HBs and LCs as it's a bit of a jack of all trades.

Was a little disappointed not to see things like special ammo for company veterans, Centurions, Thunderfire Cannons etc. but I guess Dark Angels get enough tools already and we got grav!!! Annoyed you can't legally represent the masters, chaplains and librarians of the Ravenwing properly as they don't get the Ravenwing rule when on a bike. That's my main gripe.

All in all, I think it's great!

what does grim resolve do now?

Is PFG still a thing?

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:

Clarence wrote:
I'm in the meh category mainly due to the rules errors/weirdness. Bikes don't come with bolters (in the digital rulebook,) the only Ravenwing HQ is Sammael, Company Masters still can't take bikes (though they are allowed Terminator armour...etc.)

Because bikes belong to the 2nd company and they have a company master by the name of Sammael?

You missed the point. Terminators can take a generic master even though there is only 1 master....Belial. RW should have been given same option.

 bullyboy wrote:

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:

Clarence wrote:
I'm in the meh category mainly due to the rules errors/weirdness. Bikes don't come with bolters (in the digital rulebook,) the only Ravenwing HQ is Sammael, Company Masters still can't take bikes (though they are allowed Terminator armour...etc.)

Because bikes belong to the 2nd company and they have a company master by the name of Sammael?

You missed the point. Terminators can take a generic master even though there is only 1 master....Belial. RW should have been given same option.

See I thought they were allowed termie armour because they had advanced through the 1st company into the higher echelons of the inner circle, and then occasionally went into battle wearing it to lead the group of deathwing they had as part of whatever battle strategy was being employed.

But the point is fluff wise, only the 2nd company are allowed bikes, so why would anyone but members of the 2nd company have them?

Has anyone else noticed that, unlike our vanilla counterparts, we can actually fit 2 separate lions blade detachments in a 2000pt army?

Meaning that we can take 20(!) free transports in a 2000pt game.

Thats 1100pts FOR FREE!

Its a good solid codex, I think DA players should be happy.

No obsec is problematic. Terminators got toned down.

I don't like the new Grim Resolve, I think it's stupid. But then again I don't like Overwatch.

The book is much thicker than the old one, by around 2 times. You could beat your grandmother with this thing.

I like that the dataslates are apart from the fluff pages for each unit entry. The dataslates have model photos, but the fluff pages have half page artwork combined with a fluff writeup similar to the oldschool. I feel like this is a good compromise.

Book is big and almost looks like a book that costs $58 this time.

It's a very strong book with good rules and it's better for mixed unit armies and raven spam only get better.

The lsv and nephilim aren't terrible, their average

And the darkshroud is incredibly powerful as is the dark talon.

The elite slot choices aren't bad at all but company veterans need more love still

The hq's all become pretty good even asmodai has some goofy applications theoretically speaking. He might not be that terrible.

The relics table and wargear options are a bloody mess in places but no army is truly perfect unless you happen to come from a craft world and the fast and heavy support slots got a lot nicer despite the loss of venerable land raiders.

Azreal is rubbish I won't touch him with a 10' pole

So all in all this book is a huge improvement over the last one but it still has room for improvement and next codex we will probably get those changes and we will be doing pretty good.

It is my hope that tau get brought down a peg next edition however. They eat our army alive now.

 bullyboy wrote:

You missed the point. Terminators can take a generic master even though there is only 1 master....Belial. RW should have been given same option.

I didn't vote since I don't own the codex, but... in 6th it's said that Masters of the other companies (i.e. not 1st or 2nd company) sometimes join their Deathwing brethren in Terminator armors because they are in the inner circle and (all but Sammuel) had been in the Deathwing.

 Frozocrone wrote:
I'm just happy they are on par with the other Codexes. Granted I've just had a flick through but full BS Overwatch sounds vicious, especially to my Orks (no bias, promise )

Hoping that the other factions get a similar deal with their Codexes.

Boi! I thought that was a Cypher only thing. Is it really a chapter-wideability?

 bullyboy wrote:

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:

Clarence wrote:
I'm in the meh category mainly due to the rules errors/weirdness. Bikes don't come with bolters (in the digital rulebook,) the only Ravenwing HQ is Sammael, Company Masters still can't take bikes (though they are allowed Terminator armour...etc.)

Because bikes belong to the 2nd company and they have a company master by the name of Sammael?

You missed the point. Terminators can take a generic master even though there is only 1 master....Belial. RW should have been given same option.

And, of course, there is only one Sammael, but there are multiple Dark Angels successor chapters that also field non-Ravenwings of their own. But that's an issue with the Blood Angels codex, as well, as it doesn't really acknowledge that one might want to play a successor chapter.

 bullyboy wrote:


See I thought they were allowed termie armour because they had advanced through the 1st company into the higher echelons of the inner circle, and then occasionally went into battle wearing it to lead the group of deathwing they had as part of whatever battle strategy was being employed.

But the point is fluff wise, only the 2nd company are allowed bikes, so why would anyone but members of the 2nd company have them?

So why are the Chaplains allowed bikes then?

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:

Clarence wrote:
I'm in the meh category mainly due to the rules errors/weirdness. Bikes don't come with bolters (in the digital rulebook,) the only Ravenwing HQ is Sammael, Company Masters still can't take bikes (though they are allowed Terminator armour...etc.)

Because bikes belong to the 2nd company and they have a company master by the name of Sammael?

You missed the point. Terminators can take a generic master even though there is only 1 master....Belial. RW should have been given same option.

And, of course, there is only one Sammael, but there are multiple Dark Angels successor chapters that also field non-Ravenwings of their own. But that's an issue with the Blood Angels codex, as well, as it doesn't really acknowledge that one might want to play a successor chapter.

Ah well then you get an eerily similar looking bloke, who rides an equally similar Jetbike called NotSammaelus.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Clarence wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:


See I thought they were allowed termie armour because they had advanced through the 1st company into the higher echelons of the inner circle, and then occasionally went into battle wearing it to lead the group of deathwing they had as part of whatever battle strategy was being employed.

But the point is fluff wise, only the 2nd company are allowed bikes, so why would anyone but members of the 2nd company have them?

So why are the Chaplains allowed bikes then?

Each company has an attached chaplain and Librarian, so the attached 2nd company Libby and Chaplain will be on bikes, because that's the 2nd companies shtick.

IMO except for the rules mistakes and simple editorial mistakes this is perhaps the best codex DA have had. It is different enough from SM that it doesn't feel like SM +1 or -1 but rather a unique army with it's own play style that just happens to share some common weapons and units.

Ravenwing are actually really good. Not quite as OP as people are making them out to be but definitely capable of playing on the top tier armies tables. Very few units in this codex are useless when you take into consideration max vehicle unit abilities and formations. Even land speeders got kind of good with a unit consisting of a darkshroud and a unit of landspeeders that gains Tau like overwatch and interceptor.

Deathwing is probably the worst of the play styles but the price reduction does help somewhat combined with the significantly improved ability of ravenwing to deliver their deathwing brethren.

Even the nephilim jetfighter actually got reasonably good at killing enemy flyers and flyrants. Both flyers can come on, shoot something up, jink with a 75% chance to pass the cover saves, fly off the board, and then fly back on to do it all again. That is a huge improvement over last time when they did nothing and then died to any skyfire available.

The only unit I am really conflicted about is the deathwing knights. I don't really like the new rule where they gain smash as they are so slow they usually only got a single assault anyways. The new rule is somewhat useful against vehicles and if you get multiple assaults but a huge decrease if you only get that one big assault.

Librarians are in the Deathwing but still get an option for a bike. This does not make them Ravenwing, however. The Ravenwing does have it's own Chaplain, who also has option for a bike, and is not in the Deathwing, but he still can't lead the RWSF strangely enough. How the heck can Sammael be everywhere, unless the Ravenwing is only fielded in it's entirety in a RWSF?

Good point on other masters wearing term armour, that would be true, They are inducted into the Deathwing and therefore might have their own suit of terminator armour.

I think it's only fitting that there are so many mysteries to this codex as there is to the Dark Angels themselves, lol.

I just want to be able to field a RWSF without always having to take Sammael, I don't want a special character every time.