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Does anyone else find it utterly bizarre that Age of Sigmar has a terrain generation chart, but GW scenery availability is at an all time low????

At present, the webstore offers the wide range of the Storm of Chaos staircase kit, the altar kit and the wood.

 Orock wrote:
I kind of am. What they have been doing since going public has just completely turned me off to them. However the IP's are too valuable to let languish, so I'm sure someone like Hasbro would snatch them up if they went under.

Aside from those who don't deserve to losing their jobs I can't think of one downside to it. I truly believe almost anyone could run them better at this point.

As long as people like me keep buying two of everything, that won't be an issue.

 pities2004 wrote:

 Orock wrote:
I kind of am. What they have been doing since going public has just completely turned me off to them. However the IP's are too valuable to let languish, so I'm sure someone like Hasbro would snatch them up if they went under.

Aside from those who don't deserve to losing their jobs I can't think of one downside to it. I truly believe almost anyone could run them better at this point.

As long as people like me keep buying two of everything, that won't be an issue.

I think it's a little bit more complex than that.

 keezus wrote:
Does anyone else find it utterly bizarre that Age of Sigmar has a terrain generation chart, but GW scenery availability is at an all time low????

At present, the webstore offers the wide range of the Storm of Chaos staircase kit, the altar kit and the wood.

Thank god I have their Garden of Morr before it disappeared. I was also saving up for buying the destroyed tower, but it disappeared a long time ago so...

 heartserenade wrote:

 keezus wrote:
Does anyone else find it utterly bizarre that Age of Sigmar has a terrain generation chart, but GW scenery availability is at an all time low????

At present, the webstore offers the wide range of the Storm of Chaos staircase kit, the altar kit and the wood.

Thank god I have their Garden of Morr before it disappeared. I was also saving up for buying the destroyed tower, but it disappeared a long time ago so...

Garden of Morr was almost a must-buy for me... but then I saw the skulls. I don't think the fence can be de-skulled without ruining it.

Actually I think it's appropriate (shocking, I know) because it's a graveyard. I just don't like the skulls on the fence because WHY WOULD YOU PUT SKULLS ON THE FENCE. The skulls on the floor I hid with greenstuff and sand.

Garden of Morr gone?

What the feth!!?!

That kit is awesome. They better be repackaging it or i'm gonna scream, stamp my feet and all sorts.

[runs off to FLGs to buy any left overs]

Honestly, I was super disappointed when the chapel / fortified manor got discontinued. That thing is versatile as heck. If they still made it, just from ease of availability alone, I'm sure that guys playing Malifaux or Warmachine would buy it for terrain.

There are other towers and things in the world from other companies.

Once upon a time, GW taught you how to make your own terrain using cheaply available materials and tools. They even did a book, which I've got.

Gimgamgoo wrote:Well... If I was new I'd look at the price of;

a) The pseudo-rulebook / scenarios = £45
b) Lord whatever on foot = £20
c) A unit of 5 liberators = £30
d) Some dice/shaker = £25

That's £120 to start me off and I have a whopping 6 miniatures.

But, but, you get four pages of free rules!

Nomeny wrote:So business as usual? They've been redoing miniatures since time immemorial, with scale creep.

They've been pruning and modifying certain armies and unit types piecemeal as their setting and game developed. Things like zoats, fimir and kislevites disappeared for whatever reason. Remaining armies and troop types got updated as they moved to (ostensibly) cheaper materials, newer sculpting styles, and newer sculpting and casting methods.

This might possibly be a wee bit different to killing everything dead in one fell swoop and starting again from the ground up.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Well... If I was new I'd look at the price of;

a) The pseudo-rulebook / scenarios = £45
b) Lord whatever on foot = £20
c) A unit of 5 liberators = £30
d) Some dice/shaker = £25

That's £120 to start me off and I have a whopping 6 miniatures.

I know you can get the starter which is way beťter value but jeez, that list of prices puts me off as much as anyone would have been starting old 8th edition.

Do I hope they fail?
No. Like Jah, I prefer GW figures, and I was hoping AoS would keep the old fantasy figure line going so I could have figures for my KoW armies.
Looks like GW will be ditching all those figures as they renew the line (with scale creep).
:-(

I'm not trying to attack you, but your list seems like a very unlikely way to start AoS as a new player.

First, the dice/shaker is about as unnecessary as you can possibly get. They're just 6-sided dice. Second, why MUST you have the Lord Celestant on foot? You can get him mounted in in the starter box.

If you want to play Sigmarites, I think a much more reasonable starting point would be:

1. 75 GB - AoS starter box, giving you 47 miniatures -- you can sell the Chaos ones if you wish.
2. 60 GBP - 2 boxes of 5 Liberators
3. 30 GBP - some near-future future box that I'd like
4. 45 GBP - 264 page book

Making a total of 210 GBP, less recovery of the Chaos models if you don't want them. You end up with:

- 1 Lord Celestant on Dracoth
- 1 Relictor
- 3 Retributors
- 3 Prosecutors
- 10 Liberators with hammer/shield
- 10 more Liberators, with bows or some other weapon configuration
- 5 more models in a box assuming there will be more drops in the coming weeks
- 96 page rulebook, dice, templates
- 264 page supplementary book
- Free warscrolls

That would make for 33 models, a pretty good size for Age of Sigmar, and a good variety of units to boot -- and it would make a lot more sense than spending 125GBP to have just 6 models and dice shakers (and book)

For the budget-conscious starter, remove the "5 more units" and the campaign book (#3 and #4), making the cost 135GBP. You'd still have 28 models (eminently playable!).

In any case, you wouldn't have an effective battleforce playing Sigmarites at the moment WITHOUT buying the starter box, no matter how much money you wanted to spend, because the only units available to you are the unmounted Celestant and the Liberators. Of course, you could make a case for pricing out a 30-40 model army using some other faction, like Wood Elves or Skaven.

TWOHUNDRED AND TEN POUNDS FOR STARTING A WARGAME?

Are you nuts?

All other companies offer something around 100 pounds MAXIMUM for the rulebook and a nice little starter army.

RoninXiC wrote:
TWOHUNDRED AND TEN POUNDS FOR STARTING A WARGAME?

Are you nuts?

All other companies offer something around 100 pounds MAXIMUM for the rulebook and a nice little starter army.

Which AoS does. It's 75 pounds for that actually....

Or whatever the cost of a battalion is and free rules online.

Or a couple of random boxes of stuff you like and free rules online.

Seems cheaper to start than most games actually...

But, but, the OUTRAGE?!?!

RoninXiC wrote:
TWOHUNDRED AND TEN POUNDS FOR STARTING A WARGAME?

Are you nuts?

All other companies offer something around 100 pounds MAXIMUM for the rulebook and a nice little starter army.

That $328.21 USD.... More then what Iam willing to pay for Sigmarines

 Hulksmash wrote:

RoninXiC wrote:
TWOHUNDRED AND TEN POUNDS FOR STARTING A WARGAME?

Are you nuts?

All other companies offer something around 100 pounds MAXIMUM for the rulebook and a nice little starter army.

Which AoS does. It's 75 pounds for that actually....

Or whatever the cost of a battalion is and free rules online.

Or a couple of random boxes of stuff you like and free rules online.

Seems cheaper to start than most games actually...

I replied to his post.
Yes AoS is a nice deal. No question about it.

Well besides 90% of the rules costing 50 pounds each in the additional books.

Use historical figures instead of the Sigmarines.

Perry Bros Men at Arms WoTR box would do nicely.


38 figures for £20, free rules, job done! Well, you will need bases too.

50 circular plywood bases, 3mm by 32mm, $14.99 from Litko Aero.

RoninXiC wrote:
TWOHUNDRED AND TEN POUNDS FOR STARTING A WARGAME?

Are you nuts?

All other companies offer something around 100 pounds MAXIMUM for the rulebook and a nice little starter army.

First of all, 130GBP for the budget version, which is only missing the second book and 5 minis. And that is NOT just the starter box.

Secondly, let me know how you arrive to a comparable army in Warmachines or Hordes, plus a comparable amount of printed matter. Not to mention ,that you get a ton of models from a second faction.

Thirdly, if the total came to 100 GBP, the same people who complain about the game being a ripoff would just say the models are junk and the rules are worthless

If by 90% of the rules you mean all the optional rules being in additional books then you're right. They've already shown they plan to release actual models rules online when the models go up for preorder.

Seriously not sure what the issue is.

Rules to play the game are actually free. New units and models coming out have free rules available BEFORE the unit is even available for sale (something GW hasn't done in forever). Game can be played by literally grabbing models you like off the shelf and building them.

I get not liking the actual rules or background. I don't get pretending GW is doing horrible things to people with this release. It's almost a 180 from what they've been doing for years and has a good chance at bringing in a whole new generation of gamers.

RoninXiC wrote:
TWOHUNDRED AND TEN POUNDS FOR STARTING A WARGAME?

Are you nuts?

All other companies offer something around 100 pounds MAXIMUM for the rulebook and a nice little starter army.

Rabble Rabble

1. The disorganized utterances of a large crowd, usually as part of a mob.

2. When someone takes a disorganized approach to speaking out against something, the result being an incoherent collection of syllables.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There are other towers and things in the world from other companies.

Once upon a time, GW taught you how to make your own terrain using cheaply available materials and tools. They even did a book, which I've got.

They did more than one, I've got two different ones on the shelf, amazing books.

 JamesY wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There are other towers and things in the world from other companies.

Once upon a time, GW taught you how to make your own terrain using cheaply available materials and tools. They even did a book, which I've got.

They did more than one, I've got two different ones on the shelf, amazing books.

I've got one of those myself, and it is a good book. In one of my old White Dwarves, it taught how to make press molds out of green stuff so you could make green stuff copies of tombstones that came with the skeletons and zombies boxes. I actually ended up refering back to that issue to make casts of scarabs for my Necrons in order to fill bases and have hordes of the things.

Let's See.

Saga rule book: £25

4 Mounted, or 6 Foot miniatures from Gripping Beast: £12

That means that 40 mounted or 60 foot comes to £120

And, Fantasy Miniatures from other, similar companies are roughly an equivalent price (Reaper, Iron Wind, Thunderbolt Mountain, etc.).

I got roughly 150 Thunderbolt Mountain elves, and an equivalent number of Heavy Goblin Warriors and Archers for around $750. That was a little less than $3/figure, for what are some of the best sculpted fantasy miniatures ever produced.

Now, I understand that there is a certain aesthetic to GW's products, to which people are attracted.

But they are really being taken advantage of considering the prices being charged for these products.

GW are not Meirce, or one of the other companies who do legitimately high-end miniatures.

Most of the miniatures GW makes are rather clumsy and over-the-top in their detailing and sculpting when compared to even Reaper.

But, I suppose that Stockholm Syndrome is pretty strong when dealing with people who are basically held hostage by a company like GW.

MB

BeAfraid wrote:
Let's See.

Saga rule book: £25

4 Mounted, or 6 Foot miniatures from Gripping Beast: £12

That means that 40 mounted or 60 foot comes to £120

And, Fantasy Miniatures from other, similar companies are roughly an equivalent price (Reaper, Iron Wind, Thunderbolt Mountain, etc.).

I got roughly 150 Thunderbolt Mountain elves, and an equivalent number of Heavy Goblin Warriors and Archers for around $750. That was a little less than $3/figure, for what are some of the best sculpted fantasy miniatures ever produced.

Now, I understand that there is a certain aesthetic to GW's products, to which people are attracted.

But they are really being taken advantage of considering the prices being charged for these products.

GW are not Meirce, or one of the other companies who do legitimately high-end miniatures.

Most of the miniatures GW makes are rather clumsy and over-the-top in their detailing and sculpting when compared to even Reaper.

But, I suppose that Stockholm Syndrome is pretty strong when dealing with people who are basically held hostage by a company like GW.

MB

From the websites:


GW Elfin spearmen are $35 for 16 plastic multipart

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/High-Elf-Spearmen

Thunderbolt Mountain are $55 for 20 metal

http://www.thunderboltmountain.com/collections/30mm-high-elves/products/8251-war-pack-of-20-high-elf-spearmen

I think you have drifted far into hyperbole with your talk of Stockholm Syndrome.

So, like he said, he got what he considered to be some of the greatest fantasy sculpts ever produced for a little less than $3 a model, whereas what he considers the rather clumsy, over the top GW models aren't noticeably cheaper.

Plus the core troop boxes are the least egregious of GWs pricing sins.

So, you've not really refuted his point, you've just listed some prices.

 Azreal13 wrote:
So, like he said, he got what he considered to be some of the greatest fantasy sculpts ever produced for a little less than $3 a model, whereas what he considers the rather clumsy, over the top GW models aren't noticeably cheaper.

Plus the core troop boxes are the least egregious of GWs pricing sins.

So, you've not really refuted his point, you've just listed some prices.

Actually, if you read his post more carefully, he was the one who brought up the issue of price.
He also said what he considers, which is a matter of opinion.
He also cites gripping beast as being a good alternative, but I' m not convinced.

Example, 12 undead for $28.17

http://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/REV02_Revenant_Booster_One_12--product--5185.html

GW has 20, that can be assembled in many different ways, not including all the extra bits for $35

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Vampire-Counts-Zombies

Quality wise, I don't see a lot of difference, but YMMV.

 Talys wrote:


Secondly, let me know how you arrive to a comparable army in Warmachines or Hordes, plus a comparable amount of printed matter. Not to mention ,that you get a ton of models from a second faction.

Are we talking Army or Models here? Because, what even IS a comparable army? We bloody don't know anymore with AoS.
Going by models? 4 boxes of troll fennblades at 50USD each, templates are 10USD and two books at 30USD each (which should be about 4-600 pages?) clocks in at 270 USD, so about 170 pounds? That being 40 miniatures vs 33, rules for them free.

Or you could use the two man battle box that contains 20 miniatures and the whole shebang for 99 USD. Or a army complete box with 25-30 models at around 80 pounds I guess.

Why even drag Warmahordes into this? Nobody but some shady shadowmen ever said Warmahordes was cheap per model, but it was cheaper to play than WHFB, discounting the more extreme cases on both sides. Heck, Warmahordes gets its fair share of price grumbling.

Edit: You should never, ever drag GW's Zombies into a pricing/quality discussion while Mantic Zombies exist.

BeAfraid wrote:


But, I suppose that Stockholm Syndrome is pretty strong when dealing with people who are basically held hostage by a company like GW.

MB

Oh good. If my opinion differs from yours I'm someone suffering from a psychological disorder.....

Relapse wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
So, like he said, he got what he considered to be some of the greatest fantasy sculpts ever produced for a little less than $3 a model, whereas what he considers the rather clumsy, over the top GW models aren't noticeably cheaper.

Plus the core troop boxes are the least egregious of GWs pricing sins.

So, you've not really refuted his point, you've just listed some prices.

Actually, if you read his post more carefully, he was the one who brought up the issue of price.
He also said what he considers, which is a matter of opinion.
He also cites gripping beast as being a good alternative, but I' m not convinced.

Example, 12 undead for $28.17

http://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/REV02_Revenant_Booster_One_12--product--5185.html

GW has 20, that can be assembled in many different ways, not including all the extra bits for $35

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Vampire-Counts-Zombies

Quality wise, I don't see a lot of difference, but YMMV.

And at no point did he argue the metal elves were cheaper.

Yes, value is a matter of opinion, hence why I used the word 'considers' twice in my post quite deliberately.

@korraz - that's as effective as 4 boxes of tactical marines. You kind of need a Warcaster.

An average army of AoS is a varied army that contains heroes, warmachines, troops, et cetera. It will be 30-40 models, because much more and the game plays badly. Just price out any army in the Warmachines lists forum.

By the way, the AoS pricing includes 33 Sigmarites, plus neatly as many Chaos. And if you think 40 fennblads is comparable to the 33 models I listed (not to mention around 30 Chaos models)... well, I don't think any objective, impartial person who didn't just dislike GW would see that equivalence.

We're talking this:


Almost all of this (3 rows of it):


Versus 4 boxes of:



Which are better models? I mean, really?