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 Blacksails wrote:

 IAmX wrote:

Also, since they got that new CEO, I've seen some minor improvements to their business model.

The old CEO is still the chairman, and the new CEO was already a board member, if I'm remembering correctly.

In other words, the top leadership only moved some titles around. The same people are making the same decisions at the top for the same reasons as before.

Yes, the new CEO, Kevin Rountree, is the old CFO, someone handpicked by the Chairman for the position. Guess whose agenda he's going to follow? Meet the new boss, the same as the old boss. In and of itself this isn't a big deal, lots of companies do this kind of thing when their stockholders are apathetic about such matters; just don't expect anything different just because there's a different name next to the CEO name plate.


Edit:
Misspelled the guy's name.

Thanks.

Turns out my memory isn't failing yet.

 monders wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

The thing is you can have an adults game that kids can play (like Monopoly or Risk) and both can enjoy, or you can have a kids game that adults can play (like snap) and adults get quickly bored of. Part of Warhammers appeal when I was a kid was that it was a game for adults. Now I'm an adult, it still has that appeal. I don't see it working the other way round for AoS. Especially if I can get my simple game fix for less from pretty much any supermarket or large chain store these days.

A game being played by kids doesn't make it a kids game. A game aimed at kids is.

I don't think it was ever a game for adults. It has always been firmly aimed at the 12+/tween crowd.

I would think a large portion of those who dislike AoS because it's new and NOT WHFB grew up with Fantasy - were there when it started, all big flashy boxed starter sets, army books, the works! And so they see it as theirs, and as a grown up past time far beyond the reach of mere children.

Look at all the crap that Jar Jar Binks got from the old Star Wars fans, but these same people can't enough of Wookies and Ewoks. "They've ruined Star Wars! It isn't the same! It's nonsense for kids!" Er yes, just like Star Wars was!

Personally, I'm exactly the same with anything I liked from the 80s getting a reboot

Y'know, I've seen a lot of complaining about Ewoks. Mostly Return is just a better movie than Phantom, so Ewoks don't get scapegoated.

Herzlos wrote:... or you can have a kids game that adults can play (like snap) and adults get quickly bored of.

Or snakes 'n' ladders, or ludo...

Part of Warhammers appeal when I was a kid was that it was a game for adults. Now I'm an adult, it still has that appeal. I don't see it working the other way round for AoS. Especially if I can get my simple game fix for less from pretty much any supermarket or large chain store these days.

I see what you're saying, though in my eyes the Warhammers have long been games for kids, dressed up as games for adults to appeal to kids. Younger brains can better handle and soak up the listbuilding and reams of rules, than on-the-spot tactical decision making. Add onto that the muscley, growly, homocidal he-men stuck in a grimdark, murderdeathkill, crapsack world covered in spikez and skullz, that must seem so badass and 'grown up' to a kid hitting early teens - which is often cited as GW's target market, rightly or wrongly... No wonder space marines sell so much. It's about on a level with Inhumanoids, Garbage Pail Kids, and 90's comic books.
People like to defend playing with toy soldiers by using a popular quote from CS Lewis: "when I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." And rightly so, I agree; but in my view those 'childish things' are what GW uses to hook it's childish audience: children! And a few others besides... I think it's backed up further by the full quote.

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

Emphasis mine. Granted, that could also be used in defence of playing with 'grimdark' minis and shallow, strategy-loaded rules that seem childish in later life; but IMO GW's emphasis on all that is increasingly focused on the awkward, adolescent, 'pseudo-adult' window at the end of childhood, before adulthood proper, rather than the level of CS Lewis' 'fairy stories' or on a wider market on both sides of that age range. I feel that an uncomplicated but deeper, easy-to-learn-hard-to-master set could be enjoyed by kids and adults on different levels, and toned-down mini ranges could be both more family-friendly and appeal more to adults fed up with what they see as the 'silly oversized toys' coming out of GW these days.
That so many adults do still cling to it is a puzzler to me, sometimes, but I'm going to guess nostalgia and inertia play a part. (Heck, seeing some oldhammerers gush over dreadful new Kev Adams sculpts as 'the best ever', and having a fan of KoW - a five-year-old game - effectively respond to "why not go full hog with elements now WFB's dead" with "but that's just the way it's always been", convinces me that nostalgia and inertia have a lot to do with the state of fantasy wargaming overall)

With AoS, and it's big ol' macho-man ground marines and minimal basic rules (if there were any fewer they wouldn't exist) backed up by more and more special rules in warscrolls (notwithstanding a couple of tactical considerations. You can choose who goes first. Yaaaaayyyy...), it just seems like GW have dialled that attempt to appeal to confused, hormonal 13-year-olds up to eleven. Even greater tunnel vision. Maybe it'll end well, but I can't see it.

A game being played by kids doesn't make it a kids game. A game aimed at kids is.

Yup!

IAmX wrote:40K will keep them going with its ever-growing popularity lately

I think that depends on whether their dropping revenues are entirely down to poor sales of WFB and The Hobbit.

 monders wrote:
I don't think it was ever a game for adults. It has always been firmly aimed at the 12+/tween crowd.

I would think a large portion of those who dislike AoS because it's new and NOT WHFB grew up with Fantasy - were there when it started, all big flashy boxed starter sets, army books, the works! And so they see it as theirs, and as a grown up past time far beyond the reach of mere children.

Look at all the crap that Jar Jar Binks got from the old Star Wars fans, but these same people can't enough of Wookies and Ewoks. "They've ruined Star Wars! It isn't the same! It's nonsense for kids!" Er yes, just like Star Wars was!

Personally, I'm exactly the same with anything I liked from the 80s getting a reboot

Editions 1-3 were definitely aimed at adults (with 3rd as my favorite edition of the game).

4th edition, with the big box, was a reboot in many, many ways - and aimed at a younger crowd. Major changes to the magic system, and the armies split between more books.

Still a good game, as was 5th. 6th was okay....

Then with 7th they started marketing the boxed starter sets as scenarios, rather than as an entry into the complete game.

And the sales of the starters, in my local area, at least, dropped.

Sales were still better than for the competition - but for the first time there were folks in the group that decided to just wait for the hardcover, rather than get the box.

With the last edition of Warhammer... we decided to just switch to Kings of War instead.

The new rules did not attract us in the same way that the earlier editions had. Only one of us bothered to get the rules - and he brought the game for us to look at.

He was not happy when he brought it in - and he had been our biggest GW fan. (Thus willing to spend way too much on the over priced hardcover book.)

None of my core group has bought Age of Sacroiliac.

Some of us are in denial - that GW will come out with a new edition of Warhammer, and everything will be fine.

With puppies and rainbows.

But most of us look at the last edition of Warhammer, and we look at Age of Sigmar, and we believe that Warhammer is done.

Not GW - yet.

Just Warhammer Fantasy.

For now.

The Auld Grump

 Vermis wrote:

Herzlos wrote:... or you can have a kids game that adults can play (like snap) and adults get quickly bored of.

Or snakes 'n' ladders, or ludo...

Part of Warhammers appeal when I was a kid was that it was a game for adults. Now I'm an adult, it still has that appeal. I don't see it working the other way round for AoS. Especially if I can get my simple game fix for less from pretty much any supermarket or large chain store these days.

I see what you're saying, though in my eyes the Warhammers have long been games for kids, dressed up as games for adults to appeal to kids. Younger brains can better handle and soak up the listbuilding and reams of rules, than on-the-spot tactical decision making. Add onto that the muscley, growly, homocidal he-men stuck in a grimdark, murderdeathkill, crapsack world covered in spikez and skullz, that must seem so badass and 'grown up' to a kid hitting early teens - which is often cited as GW's target market, rightly or wrongly... No wonder space marines sell so much. It's about on a level with Inhumanoids, Garbage Pail Kids, and 90's comic books.

Since I was a kid at the time I'm not sure how adult it really was, but I always got the impression it at least *pretended* to be adult in order to appeal to kids. Sure the list-building and fact learning is something kids prefer, but at the time the naming hadn't descended into Murderfang with his Murderlust and Murderclaws from planet Murderwhatever. There were plenty of silly names (Sly Marbo) but they tended to be more subtle (it took years before I realised he was literally Rambo), and had an air of not being aimed directly at 12 year olds.

True, true. It's always been a wee bit grimdark (and heck, things like Game of Thrones don't find their huge audiences among kids... I assume) and satirical, but the former and certain other themes seem to have been ramped up with each year or new edition, as Auldgrump says. Gone over the top, jumped the shark...flanderised. That's the word. That'll do nicely.

Auld Grump - Ah I didn't really think of Warhammer before that starter set. So some proper Long Beards have been through this before? Ouch! Thanks for the history lesson.

Vermis - thanks for bringing Flanderisation to my attention. It's good to know I can sit and watch, say, TBBT, and actually have a term to describe just why it is getting progressively worse!

 jah-joshua wrote:
@Skink:
the legs are bigger versions of this guy's:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Prince-Althran

the torsos are Greco-Roman inspired, and the faces are like Roman cavalry officers and Greco-Roman death masks...
the feet are pure medieval sabaton style vs. the power armor rounded boot...
the grieves are way more medieval than the sloping Marine style...
the knees are rimmed like Archaon's armor vs. the rounded Marine knee...
and so on...

I'm not saying they don't have aspects copied from elsewhere that might have originally been Fantasy settings, I'm saying as a whole they look more sci-fi than fantasy (to me at least).

I think largely because of the unrealistic and inhuman bulk. Either the person inside has very weird proportions to the point where it reminds me more of genetic modification (it's not just a big person, it's a freakishly wide person) OR the armour is bulky because it's made from composites rather than from metal.

You can take aspects of historical and fantasy stuff (like you mention) and then feth up the proportions to make it look so unrealistic that it tends to fit better with a futuristic aesthetic.

I'd say some of Forge World's efforts in Space Marines have more of a Fantastical aesthetic than these guys (that is, you could slice off the chain swords, tubes, etc, and they'd fit perfectly well in to a Fantasy setting, IMO more so than the Sigmarines).

 Vermis wrote:
True, true. It's always been a wee bit grimdark (and heck, things like Game of Thrones don't find their huge audiences among kids... I assume) and satirical, but the former and certain other themes seem to have been ramped up with each year or new edition, as Auldgrump says. Gone over the top, jumped the shark...flanderised. That's the word. That'll do nicely.

That's a perfect way to describe what's happened with GW in recent memory. Given how much time I've spent on TVTropes, I'm surprised that it didn't occur to me sooner! The designers have ironed out all of the nuance in the setting in favor of BIGGER! FASTER! AWESOME! Age of Shareholders is just that process taken to its logical conclusion. They're really doing a disservice to the decades of background that we're all so attached to.

Speaking of background, that makes me wonder. So many claim that GW have built such strong, valuable IP that another company will swoop in and buy up the games when the company goes belly-up. AoS has shown us that they're willing to throw all of that away for an easy buck. My question is, what state will any of the background be in by the time GW files for bankruptcy? Will there be anything left to save?

What I find most interesting is GW's business approach appears be be overly fixated on cutting its losses rather than identifying and correcting what may be underlying deficiencies. This can be seen in their relentless restructuring and cost cutting within their organization, as well as the marginalization and subsequent retirement of their under performing lines.

If GW were a large ocean going cruise ship - this would be akin to ignoring small leaks and then sealing off sections below decks when the leaks turn into bigger leaks. While this kind of action will save the ship, it has the two side effects of displacing the passengers that were in the flooded section (set adrift by GW), and decreasing the amount of the ship that is above water.

Over the years, GW has closed off a number of flooded sections below decks - GW Events, NA Games Days, Specialist Games, (RIP Battlefleet Gothic). The passengers that were displaced from these areas initially just milled about on the deck, certain that GW would make things right with them, but eventually, many of them arranged for alternate passage as it became apparent that GW was not interested in their patronage. To fix the shortfall of revenue, GW increased fare prices. This caused some consternation amongst the unwashed masses in steerage and forced many of these people off the ship as well, but caused nary a stir amongst the well heeled in first class.

Most recently the staff of the SS GW noticed that the leak in the WHFB suites had become major and that portion of the boat was barely staying afloat. There were still many paying customers who were stubbornly still staying in their increasingly waterlogged suites, some of which were in first class. Acting according to their doctrine, the SS GW sealed off this area and built a shiny new Age of Sigmar suites and invited their customers to use this area. Many of the guests from the WHFB suites were dismayed that this new area, while shiny, lacked many of the amenities which made the stay in the WHFB suites so enjoyable (rank and flank, points costs) Instead, the new areas provided all the McDonalds you can eat and the room assignments were given out on a "first come first served" basis, with no occupancy limits..! At first they voiced their disbelief - surely the SS GW would carve out a small portion of the new suites for their old clientele. Alas, the only response was that they were invited to keep using the sealed and flooded WHFB compartments. Knowing that their time on the SS GW had ended, many of the former guests from the WHFB suites, they too sadly disembarked, hoping against hope that the SS GW might one day make a place that they could return to.

The proud SS GW is still steaming ahead full speed, safely above water. It remains to be seen if the Age of Sigmar will fully replace, and then eclipse revenue from WHFB... If it doesn't the SS GW might be in danger of capsizing, should she list due to uneven support from AoS and 40k (or even worse, she's taken on too much water to stay afloat in its current incarnation)... in this case, the course of action may be to rechristen the SS GW, the SS 40k and cut loose all the damaged areas, restructuring the cruise ship into an exclusive luxury yacht. The first class customers in the 40k suites would hardly notice such a change now would they.

For sure, there is no way for GW to please everyone. This is common sense and it is well known to be impossible. All the displaced masses can only look on with sadness as the great luxury cruise liner, the SS GW steams on, a pale shadow of the greatness she once was. Who knows what destination is next for the SS GW... the SS GW no longer posts her destination, and only makes announcements 1 hour from landfall to "maintain excitement". Even though I left her years ago, I still have the commemorative silver GW cutlery from that ship and I wish her well.

 keezus wrote:
What I find most interesting is GW's business approach appears be be overly fixated on cutting its losses rather than identifying and correcting what may be underlying deficiencies. This can be seen in their relentless restructuring and cost cutting within their organization, as well as the marginalization and subsequent retirement of their under performing lines.

If GW were a large ocean going cruise ship - this would be akin to ignoring small leaks and then sealing off sections below decks when the leaks turn into bigger leaks. While this kind of action will save the ship, it has the two side effects of displacing the passengers that were in the flooded section (set adrift by GW), and decreasing the amount of the ship that is above water.

Or, on another perspective, you can compare it to what happened with the Boston Molasses disaster of 1919 (yes, that was a real thing - more than twenty people died - crushed, suffocated, or drowned*).

The U.S. Industrial Alcohol Company responded to leaks being spotted in the three million gallon tank by painting it brown, so that the leaks did not show.

Age of Sigmar is a coat of brown paint. The problems are still there, but they are hoping that folks (well, shareholders, anyway) won't notice them.

The Auld Grump - when I was a kid in Boston, you could still smell the molasses on hot summer days.

* If you have ever heard the phrase 'slow as cold molasses'... the molasses on that January day was clocked at 35 miles per hour.... It lifted trains off of their tracks and buildings off of their foundations.

 Talys wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
I pretty much loathe the new single pose plastic characters, yes. And I really, really do not like the new 'dynamic' poses.

If there were choices of dynamic poses then it would be great - but having essentially one choice, and all in the same damned pose? Feh.

I love single pose plastic characters that come in 10-20 parts, because they allow for poses and positions that are just not possible with a 2-part mold and 2-4 parts. You can have a head set inside an encasement; a cloak that truly wraps around; the front and back of a tabard; an arm across the chest without any dead space (undercut) between the arm and the chest; et cetera.

I want a box of 10 tactical marine style of infinity choices of these mother fethers right here. Put these out, and I'll spend $200 on 4-5 boxes tomorrow, GW.

I can get bolters, or special and heavy weapons from FW to use on them. Just give me the fething bodies, arms, head, legs, and back packs.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
@Skink:
the legs are bigger versions of this guy's:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Prince-Althran

the torsos are Greco-Roman inspired, and the faces are like Roman cavalry officers and Greco-Roman death masks...
the feet are pure medieval sabaton style vs. the power armor rounded boot...
the grieves are way more medieval than the sloping Marine style...
the knees are rimmed like Archaon's armor vs. the rounded Marine knee...
and so on...

I'm not saying they don't have aspects copied from elsewhere that might have originally been Fantasy settings, I'm saying as a whole they look more sci-fi than fantasy (to me at least).

I think largely because of the unrealistic and inhuman bulk. Either the person inside has very weird proportions to the point where it reminds me more of genetic modification (it's not just a big person, it's a freakishly wide person) OR the armour is bulky because it's made from composites rather than from metal.

You can take aspects of historical and fantasy stuff (like you mention) and then feth up the proportions to make it look so unrealistic that it tends to fit better with a futuristic aesthetic.

I'd say some of Forge World's efforts in Space Marines have more of a Fantastical aesthetic than these guys (that is, you could slice off the chain swords, tubes, etc, and they'd fit perfectly well in to a Fantasy setting, IMO more so than the Sigmarines).

seen as how Marines were firmly slotted into the whole "knights in space" idea by 3rd edition, it is not a surprise that you think some of the FW Marines would fit into Fantasy...
though i still disagree on the style of sculpting on Marine armor fitting any historical/Fantasy precedent more than the Eternals, i am not pedantic enough to link all of the 15th and 16th century European armor examples that fit the leg armor of the Eternals...
it looks like we will never agree on the armor style of the Eternals being rooted way more in a historical/Fantasy aesthetic than Marine armor is...

it just seems like i must be crazy, since i am one of the only ones saying that these fit in the long established over-the-top aspect of WFB...
in my opinion, the coolest thing about Fantasy is that it is wide-open...
it doesn't have to be historically accurate, and can be as outlandish and unrealistic as any one individual can handle...
i mean, we are talking about a world inhabited by magical creatures, wizards, Orks, Elves, and all sorts of craziness...
Sigmar's posterboys being proportioned like the biggest Muscle Beach steroid junky doesn't even make me bat an eyelash when we are placing these models in the context of a world inhabited by Dragons and Unicorns...
if i wanted true scale over heroic scale, or reality over fiction, i would collect Perry miniatures, and read about the War of the Roses...
instead, i collect outlandish minis like Wargods of Aegyptus and Warhammer, and read fiction...
the reason there are no FoW minis in my gallery, is that i see miniatures as a way to bring to life, in a small way, the things that only exist in the imagination...
if we were all the same, the world would be a boring place...

cheers
jah

You cannot, with a straight face at least, possibly claim that you could show the following to a layperson with no knowledge of GW or deep armour nerdage and not expect them to think they belonged together, or were closely related, at the very least?

Spoiled for size.

Az: why is it so hard for you to understand that i write my posts from my own personal perspective, and not as a representative of some unknown, faceless mass of laypeople???

i can only speak for myself, and no, the Eternals do not look like Sanguinary Guard to me...
the former look Fantasy, and the latter look Sci-Fi...
what others see is fine...
i was just sharing my personal perspective...
is that not how a discussion works???

cheers
jah

Yes, that is how discussion works.

Jah: I have this perspective that seems rather out of whack with what most other people think.

Other person: Really?

Jah: yes

Other people: what, even these?

Jah: yes, even those.

Other people: Really?

Jah: Yep.

Other people: feth me! (Us?)


See? Discussion!

cool
see, discussion is fun!!!
you share your perspective, i share mine, and at the end of the day, nobody got shot, so it's all good...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
Az: why is it so hard for you to understand that i write my posts from my own personal perspective, and not as a representative of some unknown, faceless mass of laypeople???

i can only speak for myself, and no, the Eternals do not look like Sanguinary Guard to me...
the former look Fantasy, and the latter look Sci-Fi...
what others see is fine...
i was just sharing my personal perspective...
is that not how a discussion works???

cheers
jah

Sorry, Jah - but I have to agree with Azreal on that one - they do indeed look like Space Marines to me - or at least minis that very easily could be converted to WH40K*.

They look a heck of a lot closer to 40K than they do to WHFB Empire miniatures, and not just to Azreal and myself. It is a very common reaction.

And that, I think, is where the problem lies - it really is hard for me not to see the similarities, so my kneejerk reaction is that you are being disingenuous, and deliberately not seeing those similarities.

I can believe that you like them - they are not to my taste, but they are well designed figures.

Just figures that do not fit the aesthetics of Warhammer.

But I really do have a hard time believing that you cannot see the similarities to WH40K miniatures.

And, I hate to say it, but to my reckoning... it is less of an insult to think that you are deliberately telling a mistruth about not seeing the similarities than being too... something... to see them.

Personally, I would rather be seen as a scoundrel than as a fool. (And do not think of myself as either.)

Or, less insultingly, you are too caught up in disagreeing to actually try to see how many others look at the figures.

The Auld Grump

* I suspect that they can be converted into excellent Blood Angels.

I think the Sigmarines look just like space marines.

 Chute82 wrote:
I think the Sigmarines look just like space marines.

These models look just like each other?

Besides the color Yes

Yes, though maybe better as an example of Artificer Armour than standard Marine armour.

Place the Sigmarine next to an Empire Knight - it is a lot closer to a Marine than to any of the Knightly Orders of the Empire.

The Auld Grump - my old Dark Angels Captain was modified from a Reaper miniature... so I have no problem in believing in conversions.

*EDIT* The miniatures that Azrael chose above make the point in a much more direct way.

They look like Blood Angels of various flavors.

@TheAuldGrump: my assertion is not to dismiss what you, or Az, or anyone else has to say...
call them whatever you want, dislike them as much as you please...

my point is that, without some heavy resculpting, i could not use these minis to represent anything in 40K...
for Custodes, they would need a new weapon built, a new helmet, and a good bit of sculpting to make the armor match...
as Marines, they would need to have the arms and legs completely resculpted, and be given power armour backpacks, and some power boxes and cables sculpted on...

to me, the figures do fit the aesthetic of Warhammer, because Warhammer is a world of Fantasy, filled with infinite possibilities...
i have seen the Warhammer aesthetic warp a few times in the last 30 years, so i don't have any preconceived notions about what fits, and what doesn't...
that is why i do not just dismiss the Eternals as being Sigmarines, but instead appreciate them as Avatars of Sigmar...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
@TheAuldGrump: my assertion is not to dismiss what you, or Az, or anyone else has to say...
call them whatever you want, dislike them as much as you please...

my point is that, without some heavy resculpting, i could not use these minis to represent anything in 40K...
for Custodes, they would need a new weapon built, a new helmet, and a good bit of sculpting to make the armor match...
as Marines, they would need to have the arms and legs completely resculpted, and be given power armour backpacks, and some power boxes and cables sculpted on...

to me, the figures do fit the aesthetic of Warhammer, because Warhammer is a world of Fantasy, filled with infinite possibilities...
i have seen the Warhammer aesthetic warp a few times in the last 30 years, so i don't have any preconceived notions about what fits, and what doesn't...
that is why i do not just dismiss the Eternals as being Sigmarines, but instead appreciate them as Avatars of Sigmar...

cheers
jah

And yet many, many people have, do, and shall call them exactly that - and not always in dismissal.

In my case, yes, it is fair to say that I am dismissing them - but I would actually be less dismissive of them if they were fielded with bolters and jetpacks in 40K than if they were used in Fantasy.

To me, they remind me of the extra special armour that Dante the Extra Special wore for so many years.

And I gather that there is a whole unit of similar armour for the Blood Angels these days.

The Auld Grump

Yeah, extensive reworking...

@The Auld Grump: fair enough...

as someone who is painting a Sanguinary Guard model as Dante right now, the differences stand-out quite starkly to me...
as to whether that makes me a fool, or a scoundrel, that's for you to decide...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
@The Auld Grump: fair enough...

as someone who is painting a Sanguinary Guard model as Dante right now, the differences stand-out quite starkly to me...
as to whether that makes me a fool, or a scoundrel, that's for you to decide...

cheers
jah

Here's mine (though it's very old... I made it when the Sanguinary Guard kit came out, and just rebased it to 32mm to check out the base size) --


The question is: can you pass the Sanguinary Guard / Dante kitrbash off as a Sigmarite?

@Az: that would be a fair amount of resculpting of the Eternals' legs, the weapon would need a power box, and a Termie back fitted...

like i said, i'm a purist when it comes to minis...
what other people choose to do is their thing...

i am not saying anyone is wrong...
my assertion the whole time has been that they don't look like Marines to MY eye...
you, and 99% percent of Dakka, see it differently to me...
nothing wrong with that...

cheers
jah



Automatically Appended Next Post:
i've done one already, too, Talys...
now i am trying to improve on the first one for another client...



i like this kit way more than i like the Sigmarites, personally, but that is because Sci-Fi floats my boat way more than Fantasy...

cheers
jah

Jah, you're "pulling a Talys" ie using your own very specific personal thoughts and opinions in order to try and argue against something that is widely accepted in a much broader sense.

Yes, you may not see the similarities but you need to be aware that it is an opinion that diverges from popular opinion to such a degree that many people are going to have a hard time believing it.