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The multiple colour plastic in the Gundam sprue is not irrelevant because you assume it is going to be painted. The point of it is you get a nicely coloured model without painting.

That would be a huge boon for everyone who doesn't like painting their GW figures and for everyone who doesn't like playing against grey armies.

It is an advanced technical feature that Bandai introduced nearly 10 years ago, which GW do not have.

It might just be my imagination but I've typically found coloured plastic kits to have inferior qualities to typical grey plastic kits. They often feel softer and/or more brittle and mould lines often don't clean up as easily.

I don't think GW kits would really benefit much from coloured plastic anyway. It makes more sense on a Gundam model where you can divide the model on the sprue in to different parts that should be different colours, but 95% of the GW models that doesn't work.

That and you can just spray the bits in almost no time anyway if that's all you want.

Not that I'm typically a GW defender, but in the context of most models, coloured plastic is largely irrelevant for most models.

The area Gundams seem to blow GW out of the water is articulation on larger kits. The IK's stance is pretty stupid and a total pain in the arse to change because GW didn't think hard enough about how to make it articulated.

I don't think it's really hard to find models that objectively have better qualities than GW's (ignoring the subjective things like density of detail). GW's strength, to me, has been the completeness of their range. 40k and WHFB have a huge array of armies with models for damned near everything and not very many holes in the ranges.

Gray is not the "natural" color of plastic so it could be a quality issue with cheap colored plastic that you dealt with. I can say that there is no difference in nature between GW plastic and the colored plastic of the mid to high range gumdam kits.

Maybe, my experience with coloured plastic is mostly in finescale models or in some of GW's coloured plastics (Space Hulk, the old Vampire Counts Skeletons come to mind).

But either way, I don't really see the point in GW bothering with coloured plastic. The only benefit might be if you want to prime and basecoat an obvious colour (say Blood Angels might be red) it'll take less coats. But then on the flip side, grey is a nice neutral colour, if you made the plastic, I dunno, blue, and the gamer decided they wanted it red, it'd take even more coats than if it was just grey to begin with.

GW cannot hold a candle to the quality of bandai kits have, yes you can post pictures of low grade gundam kits from the eighties, but if you buy a kit in the same range as the imperial knight you get full articulation metallic multicolored parts, this i just a review of an RG kit for only 2500 yen, yes it has not the same design style as GW but bandai's extruder technology is way beyond what gw is capable off.
http://gundamreviews.net/3618/models/rg-real-grade/

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Maybe, my experience with coloured plastic is mostly in finescale models or in some of GW's coloured plastics (Space Hulk, the old Vampire Counts Skeletons come to mind).

But either way, I don't really see the point in GW bothering with coloured plastic. The only benefit might be if you want to prime and basecoat an obvious colour (say Blood Angels might be red) it'll take less coats. But then on the flip side, grey is a nice neutral colour, if you made the plastic, I dunno, blue, and the gamer decided they wanted it red, it'd take even more coats than if it was just grey to begin with.

The point WAS about technology and cost, not GW doing colored plastic. But, I will give the guy who managed that derail, points for effectiveness. But the point was GW can produce kits far cheaper at better quality but choose not to.

 jah-joshua wrote:
@Talys: when i say miscast, i am talking about the production end, not the mold making end...
the metal BA Assault Sgt. i got was missing the end of his boot, as if there was not quite enough metal poured, but the replacement was perfect...
the metal Termie Captain was from the mold not being aligned properly, so there was a 2mm offset all along the mold line on the body, but, again, the replacement was perfect...

i'm with you on the appreciation for what GW is doing with their plastics right now...

speaking about a few of the flaws on the Space Hulk and DV minis, those are tooling limitations for their plastics...
there are a few limitations visible on the DA Tac. Squad, like the missle launcher shoulder pad, but it is still a big improvement from the Black Reach one...
you can actually see them solving problems discovered in previous kits, which is why i keep saying does evolve and advance with their model making...
the new Termie librarian is a good example, as it has not of the flaws along the Crux pad that a couple of the SH Termies have, but they have cast the guy in a lot more parts so that all of the detail lies along the plane that works best in the steel mold...
unfortunalely, push-fit is always going to have a compromise present due to the limitation of less parts...
the more parts a model can be cut into, the more everything can lie along that nice horizontal plane that steel molds are best for...

cheers
jah

Maybe the metal BA marine was a veteran that had his foot shot off DOH! Bolter misfire!

The snapfits have really improved over time; the crispness of the details have become better, and like you said, a lot of those shoulders are just done better, even given the same number of parts. The Sigmar snapfits are just so nice when you compare it with Dark Vengeance. Compared to Black Reach... it's miles apart.

I'm totally with you in more parts improving the overall model by leveraging the horizontal plane. This is one of the reasons I just don't get the argument of, "more parts isn't better" -- adding more parts gives the *possibility* of a better product, given the limitations of 2-part molds. Not to mention really unique poses and getting rid of undercuts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
GW cannot hold a candle to the quality of bandai kits have, yes you can post pictures of low grade gundam kits from the eighties, but if you buy a kit in the same range as the imperial knight you get full articulation metallic multicolored parts, this i just a review of an RG kit for only 2500 yen, yes it has not the same design style as GW but bandai's extruder technology is way beyond what gw is capable off.
http://gundamreviews.net/3618/models/rg-real-grade/

It's totally fine to think the finished model in that picture is a better model than an Imperial Knight. I don't really love the turtle-shell look of the Imperial Knight aesthetic. But that's not what we're talking about, right?

Looking at the picture on the link you provide does not show plastic tooling on a per piece basis that is technically superior to an Imperial Knight. I'm not sure what about that model is revolutionary in the pieces of plastic that comprise the model. Many of the pieces of plastic have little or no detail tooled into them, and I'm not certain where I would think, "how did they do that?", look at any sprue that I've seen so far. Look at the head, or chest, or hands and ignore the aesthetic, creativity and atristry. How complex is the HIPS tooling of one part? How close together are the etched details? How deep are the valleys and ridges, and how crisp are the details that are hard to cast?

Look at the red piece at the center of the head. It looks really simple. Look at the white piece to the left, and to the right. Look at the white piece just below the red piece. Look at the face plate, and the little red chin. The white shoulder, which looks very cool: again, is what unique about the cut of each of those pieces of polystyrene? Look at the weapons on the pictures below: which is more a more complex use of plastic and a superior job of tooling HIPS?

Try to look past the paintjobs, and compare *just the plastic* (note, all the Gundam pictures are taken from the video on your link) -



These are the questions I'd like to have answered -- does Bandai have better technology. As I've said, I would like to see plastic on the sprue of a current, PG model at high resolution.

To me, the beauty of the finished model is irrelevant, because that goes back to taste. If you think a Riptide or Wraithknight is prettier or uglier, it's prettier or uglier.

Edit: the value of metallic prepainted parts is zero, if you're going paint the whole thing anyhow. And full articulation is cool, if you want an action figure. Obviously, it's great for posability, and if you want full articulation, you will never find it in a GW model. However, It's less important -- and actually a problem -- in a game piece, where you must measure from things like the tip of the barrel. I'll be the first to agree that the IK has very limited posability; but, this is not the case for a very large number of GW models, so it's not fair to take one model and make it representative of all GW models; any more than it would be to take one bad Gundam model and make that representative.

I hate GW as much as the next guy. I wish the company would just die already so that people would stop talking about it, except maybe as a joke as a total fail gaming company.

But the weapon on that Gundam model looks slowed. And looking at all Gundam models, pretty much all the weapons look slowed. And talk about no originality, creativity or whatever you want to call it, because half the heads look the same, most the legs look the same, most the arms look the same blah blah blah. Half the models are knockoffs of each other. Yeah, there are a few models that look different, and they are UGLY.

I mean are you guys who are saying that gundam models are so awesome just blind?

If you want to talk about prepaint Japanese robots, at least pick something cool --



But like, not as if I'm gonna buy one of those either, LOL.

Wow, harsh, man.

Argh. I don't know why I came back to this thread. Now we're comparing GW models to Optimus Prime?!? Next it's gonna be Vendettas and Leman Russes versus Cobra tanks and helicopters.

I give up. You guys win I gotta stop clicking on this thread. Peace, out.

 Talys wrote:
Edit: the value of metallic prepainted parts is zero, if you're going paint the whole thing anyhow. And full articulation is cool, if you want an action figure. Obviously, it's great for posability, and if you want full articulation, you will never find it in a GW model. However, It's less important -- and actually a problem -- in a game piece, where you must measure from things like the tip of the barrel. I'll be the first to agree that the IK has very limited posability; but, this is not the case for a very large number of GW models, so it's not fair to take one model and make it representative of all GW models; any more than it would be to take one bad Gundam model and make that representative.

Articulation isn't just important if you want an action figure, it's important to get good poses on models without an insane amount of work cutting then reconstructing joints. Forge world manage far greater articulation in resin, I'm sure GW can manage it in plastic and they really missed the boat on the IK because the legs are weirdly posed with no in built capacity to change them, not great when you might want to buy half a dozen of them to build an army!

Obviously we can't take the IK to be representative of the whole range, we're basically just limiting ourself to talking about large robots/vehicle models since it's the only models where it's really applicable.

Beyond the articulation and price I don't really see the point in comparing Gundams to GW, they are so aesthetically different that there's very few other objective qualities you can compare. GW covers their models with ornate detail, which you may or may not like, but it makes it hard to compare to models that aren't covered in ornate detail. I personally think there's a lot of tank and aircraft models from the likes of Tamiya, Airfix, Revell, etc that are better than GW's models, but the detail comes in the form of nice neat rivets (opposed to GW giant ones) and fine details that would be too delicate for a gaming piece and your typical wargamer would find a hassle rather than a benefit, so again we are back to the subjectiveness of it all.

The knights are fine for articulation, if you look beyond the sword that can't reach targets on the ground without stooping. . I love 'em, heck I own 7, but it's like the designer got rushed for time when he got to the legs and just said, "dreadnoughts are good enough with static legs, these guys will be too."

I've just thought of a way to get around the new "IP protection" inherent in GW's current line-up.

Let's make a bunch of models that are similar but without using any AoS names or iconography, and give them different names.

So an Orrock or whatever could be, say, an... Orc? An Ogor could be... damn, this is hard... an Ogre? A Herald of Nurgle could be a Herald of Pestilence?

We'll have to create new names and new fluff, yeah, but come on, the names GW has been using are getting increasingly daft and overblown: I mean, Stormcast Eternals? Skullvane Manse? You'd spend half the game just trying to pronounce the terrain features, let alone the modes.

EDIT: And yes, this post was written in sarcasm. You CANNOT prevent people from nicking your ideas. You just have to make sure you're known to be the first. You don't have to trash your product line over it.

 Talys wrote:
Looking at the picture on the link you provide does not show plastic tooling on a per piece basis that is technically superior to an Imperial Knight. I'm not sure what about that model is revolutionary in the pieces of plastic that comprise the model. Many of the pieces of plastic have little or no detail tooled into them, and I'm not certain where I would think, "how did they do that?", look at any sprue that I've seen so far. Look at the head, or chest, or hands and ignore the aesthetic, creativity and atristry. How complex is the HIPS tooling of one part? How close together are the etched details? How deep are the valleys and ridges, and how crisp are the details that are hard to cast?

Considering the Eldar Wraith Knight, the kit does not show plastic tooling on a per piece basis that is technically superior to an Imperial Knight. I'm not sure what about the model is revolutionary in the pieces of plastic that comprise the model. Many of the pieces of plastic have little or no detail tooled into them, and I'm not certain where I would think, "how did they do that?", look at any sprue that I've seen so far. Look at the head, or chest, or hands and ignore the aesthetic, creativity and atristry. How complex is the HIPS tooling of one part? How close together are the etched details? How deep are the valleys and ridges, and how crisp are the details that are hard to cast?


Wraithknight Sprue.


Knight Gallant Sprue

Clearly, the Wraith Knight is created from inferior technology and tooling process, and its relative dearth of detail has nothing to do with the aesthetic of the subject matter.

I rest my case.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
GW's strength, to me, has been the completeness of their range. 40k and WHFB have a huge array of armies with models for damned near everything and not very many holes in the ranges.

That "completeness," however, has come at a cost, as I would argue that GW's range has actually shrunk over the years. GW has doubled down on their core games: no more Mordheim, no more Battlefleet Gothic, no more Blood Bowl, etc. Their migration to plastic means far less variety in models. There used to be multiple SM Sergeant models, now there are none beyond what you can make from the squad boxes. There used to be multiple generic SM Librarians in power armor, now there are two (and the finecast one will probably go away eventually). Most of the old Imperial Guard range is gone (for instance, all of the Mordians but the basic squad are gone). By leaving metal behind, GW has given up their flexibility (and their huge back catalog, as I'll bet all the old molds and the masters were destroyed). Their sculptors could whomp up any cool model they could think of and sell it, and it wouldn't take much to be profitable. With plastics, they can't do something just because it might sell, they can only do what will sell. If they were to redo the whole Eldar line, would we still have the sheer variety of Farseers and Warlocks we have now?

 agnosto wrote:
The knights are fine for articulation, if you look beyond the sword that can't reach targets on the ground without stopping. . I love 'em, heck I own 7, but it's like the designer got rushed for time when he got to the legs and just said, "dreadnoughts are good enough with static legs, these guys will be too."

That's not the designer's fault, that's the fault of management that told him everything had to fit on X number of sprues to minimize production costs. Why make an awesome model when you can instead just make one that is "good enough"? And it isn't just the Knight that suffers from this, look at the new AdMech walkers with their legs, too.

@keezus - I completely agree with you. The Imperial Knight is a far superior and technically difficult to tool model. It's also newer and more expensive.

Anyone who has looked at sprues of the two side by side would agree that the IK has much more detail on it and cost GW more to tool.

 Talys wrote:

These are the questions I'd like to have answered -- does Bandai have better technology. .

And the answer is 'Yes, they do'.

The fact that Gundam models come pre-coloured is only half of it - Some of them come pre-coloured with multiple colours on the same part.

That's something that is made possible through the use of sliding-core moulds, which also allow for detail in more than just the standard 2 dimensions that we're all used to from plastic wargaming models. It's the same technology that allows weapons to come with barrels in one piece without having to drill them out, and for detail on all sides of a model without having to break a part into multiple pieces for each facing.

That's technology that GW have only just recently started playing with, and that is unlikely to be part of their standard production any time soon... and that Gundam models have had used on them for over a decade.

You know how GW have always said that certain things are impossible to do in plastic because of undercuts? It's a lie. Those things are only impossible to do in plastic because GW are using 30-year-old technology to make their moulds.

 Talys wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
@Talys: when i say miscast, i am talking about the production end, not the mold making end...
the metal BA Assault Sgt. i got was missing the end of his boot, as if there was not quite enough metal poured, but the replacement was perfect...
the metal Termie Captain was from the mold not being aligned properly, so there was a 2mm offset all along the mold line on the body, but, again, the replacement was perfect...

i'm with you on the appreciation for what GW is doing with their plastics right now...

speaking about a few of the flaws on the Space Hulk and DV minis, those are tooling limitations for their plastics...
there are a few limitations visible on the DA Tac. Squad, like the missle launcher shoulder pad, but it is still a big improvement from the Black Reach one...
you can actually see them solving problems discovered in previous kits, which is why i keep saying does evolve and advance with their model making...
the new Termie librarian is a good example, as it has not of the flaws along the Crux pad that a couple of the SH Termies have, but they have cast the guy in a lot more parts so that all of the detail lies along the plane that works best in the steel mold...
unfortunalely, push-fit is always going to have a compromise present due to the limitation of less parts...
the more parts a model can be cut into, the more everything can lie along that nice horizontal plane that steel molds are best for...

cheers
jah

Maybe the metal BA marine was a veteran that had his foot shot off DOH! Bolter misfire!

The snapfits have really improved over time; the crispness of the details have become better, and like you said, a lot of those shoulders are just done better, even given the same number of parts. The Sigmar snapfits are just so nice when you compare it with Dark Vengeance. Compared to Black Reach... it's miles apart.

I'm totally with you in more parts improving the overall model by leveraging the horizontal plane. This is one of the reasons I just don't get the argument of, "more parts isn't better" -- adding more parts gives the *possibility* of a better product, given the limitations of 2-part molds. Not to mention really unique poses and getting rid of undercuts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
GW cannot hold a candle to the quality of bandai kits have, yes you can post pictures of low grade gundam kits from the eighties, but if you buy a kit in the same range as the imperial knight you get full articulation metallic multicolored parts, this i just a review of an RG kit for only 2500 yen, yes it has not the same design style as GW but bandai's extruder technology is way beyond what gw is capable off.
http://gundamreviews.net/3618/models/rg-real-grade/

It's totally fine to think the finished model in that picture is a better model than an Imperial Knight. I don't really love the turtle-shell look of the Imperial Knight aesthetic. But that's not what we're talking about, right?

Looking at the picture on the link you provide does not show plastic tooling on a per piece basis that is technically superior to an Imperial Knight. I'm not sure what about that model is revolutionary in the pieces of plastic that comprise the model. Many of the pieces of plastic have little or no detail tooled into them, and I'm not certain where I would think, "how did they do that?", look at any sprue that I've seen so far. Look at the head, or chest, or hands and ignore the aesthetic, creativity and atristry. How complex is the HIPS tooling of one part? How close together are the etched details? How deep are the valleys and ridges, and how crisp are the details that are hard to cast?

Look at the red piece at the center of the head. It looks really simple. Look at the white piece to the left, and to the right. Look at the white piece just below the red piece. Look at the face plate, and the little red chin. The white shoulder, which looks very cool: again, is what unique about the cut of each of those pieces of polystyrene? Look at the weapons on the pictures below: which is more a more complex use of plastic and a superior job of tooling HIPS?

Try to look past the paintjobs, and compare *just the plastic* (note, all the Gundam pictures are taken from the video on your link) -



These are the questions I'd like to have answered -- does Bandai have better technology. ...

Yes.

So, age of Sigmar anyone? Final nail?

I honestly can't believe this thread wasn't locked 4 pages ago.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
So, age of Sigmar anyone? Final nail?

i sure hope not...
i am really excited to see some new-look Orcs and Slayers...
i am a fan of evolution and change...
it doesn't kill my enjoyment of the old stuff, but adds new, different styles to enjoy...


@Killcrazy: i agree...
i would not try to argue that GW has better technology that Bandai...

the only question that matters to me, is what does the buyer prefer to spend his money on???
if someone wants a Gundam, then no GW kit is going to scratch that itch, and vice versa...

this is why i only compare GW to GW...
if one looks at the new kits (2013 Tac. Squad, 2015 Assault and Dev, Squads), they have better detailing, less compromise in tooling, and more options on the sprues than their predecessors...
the DV set was a clear improvement over the AoBR push-fits...
the 2009 SH set were the most amazingly detailed and posed push-fit Termies we have seen from GW...
AoS has taken the push-fit minis another notch up from the DV starter set...

as long as GW continues to push their own technology, and visibly improve their models with each new iteration, then they will continue to get my money...
that only leaves the question of whether or not there will come a point where they will finally price even me out of collecting their minis...

cheers
jah

 insaniak wrote:

 Talys wrote:

These are the questions I'd like to have answered -- does Bandai have better technology. .

And the answer is 'Yes, they do'.

The fact that Gundam models come pre-coloured is only half of it - Some of them come pre-coloured with multiple colours on the same part.

That's something that is made possible through the use of sliding-core moulds, which also allow for detail in more than just the standard 2 dimensions that we're all used to from plastic wargaming models. It's the same technology that allows weapons to come with barrels in one piece without having to drill them out, and for detail on all sides of a model without having to break a part into multiple pieces for each facing.

That's technology that GW have only just recently started playing with, and that is unlikely to be part of their standard production any time soon... and that Gundam models have had used on them for over a decade.

You know how GW have always said that certain things are impossible to do in plastic because of undercuts? It's a lie. Those things are only impossible to do in plastic because GW are using 30-year-old technology to make their moulds.

Like I said, I'm not making a judgment, either way. I'm keeping an open mind, and I'll actually buy a model, and examine it to judge for myself (and share photos so that others can see). Nobody has provided a decent picture of a sprue or a part like what you've described, and what's on the internet doesn't look exciting at all.

Since I'm painting the model, colored plastic is of no value. Arguably, it's of NEGATIVE value, because colored airbrush primer isn't opaque with some colors (like red), and red on yellow or red on blue or red on red come out differently (plus priming the over the same color, like red on red, is awful, since you can't tell what you've missed). The coolest thing in the pictured sprues describing what you're saying is a clear plastic piece beside a colored sprue. But seriously, how important is that to me? Why would I care if it came on separate sprue?

I have not seen a sprue with a single piece rifle with the barrel drilled out. That would excite me!

To extrapolate that: if a model came with hollowed out sections and no joined pieces (in other words, no front/back, left/right assembles, and every pieces separate except where articulation requires it to be) -- my mind would be blown away. In fact, my mind would be blown away with a monopose Imperial Knight that was single pose, and "no assembly required"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Beyond the articulation and price I don't really see the point in comparing Gundams to GW, they are so aesthetically different that there's very few other objective qualities you can compare. GW covers their models with ornate detail, which you may or may not like, but it makes it hard to compare to models that aren't covered in ornate detail. I personally think there's a lot of tank and aircraft models from the likes of Tamiya, Airfix, Revell, etc that are better than GW's models, but the detail comes in the form of nice neat rivets (opposed to GW giant ones) and fine details that would be too delicate for a gaming piece and your typical wargamer would find a hassle rather than a benefit, so again we are back to the subjectiveness of it all.

It all originally started because of a conversation about Bandai's manufacturing process being superior, and "why doesn't GW do that?". Which I think is not an unreasonable question, and which I think is not yet answered to my satisfaction, because nobody seems to have a picture of one of these beautifully cast pieces of plastic (still on sprue) that display amazing technology. Which is no-one's fault, because people can't be expected to keep unassembled product hanging around, waiting to photograph.

But what you're saying was my point originally, to be frank: there is no point in comparing Gundam robots to GW models, because the aesthetics are really different, and they (mostly) serve two non-overlapping markets. They don't compete for the same dollars (mostly), so the relative prices aren't even relevant. For the same reason that an Optimus Prime, however awesome, shouldn't be compared with a Gundam or a Riptide, even though they're all robots.

Ask and you shall receive..




It's like when I came back from Asia and was trying to tell people that American cell phones were way behind Asia, technologically speaking, but some wouldn't hear it because they loved their BlackBerry...until I pulled out my DoCoMo cellphone that I could watch tv on and was a true smart phone before Apple popularized the term. Some people don't want to believe that a company that they have invested a great deal of emotion into has fallen behind.

I was pretty amazed at the joints on my kit. Ball and sockets and hinged parts in the sprue. I've no idea how they manage it.

So, Agnosto.. please explain how these parts are technically superior to GW sprues, since you have one.

I don't see it, personally. As I was saying, anything prepainted is either of zero or negative value, since it just makes prepping harder.

I don't see cool stuff like what insaniak was saying, where a single piece gun barrel cast across a horizontal plane is hollow inside, or a piece which doesn't have undercuts, or detail that is superior to GW's.

I'm not being emotional about it; I just want someone to show me something technically superior to the chainsword or carapace plate (the one with the AdMech symbol) in this -



Call me blind, but all I see are is are low density sprues (where the parts are all spread out really inefficiently, like a 2005 GW kit), and colored pieces that could be for any model. I don't see them being inferior; neither do I see anything super duper awesome or crossing some technological hurdle.

Has there ever been a thread about GW that doesn't go completely mental?

Herzlos wrote:
I was pretty amazed at the joints on my kit. Ball and sockets and hinged parts in the sprue. I've no idea how they manage it.

Well, that would be cool!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Davylove21 wrote:
Has there ever been a thread about GW that doesn't go completely mental?

No, because there are people who absolutely despise GW, and people who really like them (or at least their stuff)

They appear to be a very polarizing company.

 Talys wrote:
So, Agnosto.. please explain how these parts are technically superior to GW sprues, since you have one.

I don't see it, personally. As I was saying, anything prepainted is either of zero or negative value, since it just makes prepping harder.

I don't see cool stuff like what insaniak was saying, where a single piece gun barrel cast across a horizontal plane is hollow inside, or a piece which doesn't have undercuts, or detail that is superior to GW's.

I'm not being emotional about it; I just want someone to show me something technically superior to the chainsword or carapace plate (the one with the AdMech symbol) in this -

Spoiler:

Call me blind, but all I see are is are low density sprues (where the parts are all spread out really inefficiently, like a 2005 GW kit), and colored pieces that could be for any model. I don't see them being inferior; neither do I see anything super duper awesome or crossing some technological hurdle.

Moving goalposts. You wanted an example of multiple colors on the same part, I googled it for you and showed it. I don't own the kit and generally don't have unbuilt models of any stripe just lying about to satisfy your curiosity, which is probably the case for most people on here. I buy as I build, I find that I accumulate less clutter that way. Personally, I don't buy Gundam models because I don't find them aesthetically appealing; that doesn't mean that I am unable to recognize that they are superior to GW models in some ways. Just like GW models are superior, in my eye, in other ways. I know that they don't meet the, so many skulls per square mm, of GW models but that doesn't mean that they are in any way, shape or form inferior.

What Bandai has done is created a way to increase their sales volume with pre-colored models by attracting non-modelers who want a cool model for a game or other reason but don't have the desire/time/whatever to spend countless hours painting. There's a lesson there for GW. Precolored, snapfit marines (for example) would probably sale a great deal more than gray models that take more time to assemble and paint. By creating both, they could broaden their market reach and increase the attractiveness of their kits for non-modellers to buy and get into their games.

No no, agnosto. I did not say that I wanted to see multicolored parts at all. Look back and read my posts: I have never said that I wanted to see multiple colors on anything. Someone else said that; I said that was a NEGATIVE. It messes you up when you prime it with airbrush stuff (just try priming a blue part with red primer, and a red part with red primer, and look at how it turns out... ick... I will take grey plastic for modelling purposes any day of the week).

In fact, if you scroll back a page or so, I gave photos of sprues that were colored and that had multiple colors on the same sprue (but not the same part, I don't think... I wasn't paying attention to that, as I didn't care). They were even of high enough resolution to look at the quality of the cut plastic (to which the objection was, "these are cheap kits" -- well, ok, but there are no high res images I could find of expensive sprues...).

I want to see actual plastic parts that are more complex, or as Insaniak put it, capable of dealing with undercuts in a different way. This would (truly) excite me. Like a bolter I didn't have to drill out, or fill the top and bottom of? HELL YA.

Perhaps something that was attractive to non-modellers would be good for GW. But that really IS moving goalposts. This was about technological capability for making superior models (which I'm interested in), not about other markets (which I'm not).

I suppose that I'm in a 3rd group and mainly indifferent about them. I find discussion of their financials sometimes interesting because I was formerly a stockholder; I like some of their models while sometimes shaking my head at the design choices of others (the new chaos model in AoS with skulls literally oozing out of its skin is a bit OTT).

I own a large number of GW kits, just as I do from other manufacturers; I'm a poor painter but I enjoy building models and have since I was a small child with model cars, tanks, etc.

GW could die tomorrow, the factory could go up in flames and I wouldn't care just as it wouldn't phase me if they became insanely, broadly popular and their stock jumped through the roof (if only that I might kick myself for selling).




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talys wrote:
No no, agnosto. I did not say that I wanted to see multicolored parts at all. Look back and read my posts: I have never said that I wanted to see multiple colors on anything. Someone else said that; I said that was a NEGATIVE. It messes you up when you prime it with airbrush stuff.

I want to see actual plastic parts that are more complex, or as Insaniak put it, capable of dealing with undercuts in a different way. This would (truly) excite me. Like a bolter I didn't have to drill out, or fill the top and bottom of? HELL YA.

You asked to see sprues with parts that multiple colors on the same part and/or the gun barrels without need for drilling thing. I didn't care enough to find the gun barrel thing but did find the multiple colors after looking at about 20 pics.

I know you like to take things very personally but if we're going to have a subjective conversation, you're going to have to attempt to remove your personal preferences from the discussion. Besides which, I fail to see how pre-colored plastic, that doesn't create any raised surfaces, stops you from priming a model and treating it like you would any other "gray" model but then I don't use airbrushes so maybe it's just something to do with that. Meh.

I'm sorry, but I did not say that, I wanted to see multicolored parts, Agnosto. I will eat my words and gift you a nice model if I said that anywhere. 2 colors on the same part never even came up until Insaniak brought it up in the quoted section below.

Please re-read:




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 agnosto wrote:
I know you like to take things very personally but if we're going to have a subjective conversation, you're going to have to attempt to remove your personal preferences from the discussion. Besides which, I fail to see how pre-colored plastic, that doesn't create any raised surfaces, stops you from priming a model and treating it like you would any other "gray" model but then I don't use airbrushes so maybe it's just something to do with that. Meh.

I'm not trying to be emotional about this, agnosto. I just want to see some of the awesome technology that people keep saying is out there, but I haven't seen a sprue that demonstrates it. I am not saying it doesn't exist. People just keep talking about it, but with not a demonstrable photo. To be clear: my goal would be to say, "wow, IK would be so much cooler if it had THIS." Not, "IK is better than that".

Colored Vallejo airbrush primer is not opaque (unlike from a rattle can). Especially the colors like red (and you see I've painted a zillion blood angels, so red matters to me...). Therefore, red primer on blue plastic will leave you with a different color than red primer on yellow plastic, as a color to start working from, either with an airbrush with regular paint or a paintbrush with regular paint. I'm sure you can see the objections from there without me spelling it out, but it's essentially like priming half your model one color, the other half another, and saying, "have fun painting it".