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Gotta say, I was expecting a little bit more.

I was playing a Harlequin Cegorach's Revenge formation with allied Dark Eldar, primarily to let me take a fun deep striking fusion pistol/leadership bomb unit with a WWP.

He played Black Templars with Standard Skyhammer, a LR with some kind of BT deathball squad dealie, a Whirlwind, razorback with tacs, Rhino with tacs, and two squads of sniper scouts.

He even ended up list tailoring a bit, as after he said "these guys are grav cannons, what's the harlequins armor save?" I told him they didn't have one, so he switched them to Heavy Bolters and added in an Ironclad Dread with 2x Heavy Flamers in a pod.

Tbh, the biggest pain in the arse with this formation is that it comes in T1 with no roll. Not only did I have to sit there til turn 2 with my stuff, I didn't roll to bring in my damn scourges until T4, so the stupid dreadnought got to run around flaming stuff for 2 turns longer than he should have. Seems stupid that this formation that doesn't count towards pod assault, and gets all these crazy bonuses, gets to come in turn 1 without even a reserve roll.

But I managed to live through the assault mostly unscathed, lost a Starweaver and Voidweaver to the devs and a bike to the dreadnought, then the assault marines failed one charge and lost 2 men before they could swing in the other vs my bikes.

The game ended extremely close, came down to him having rolled 2 D3's for objectives and getting a 2 and 3 while I got 2 1s on my D3s. I had a solo DJ, scourges and one mostly intact troupe left at the end of the game and he had his commander solo (after making two 4++ saves against instant death, grrrr) and two drop pods. A much closer, much more enjoyable game than I thought it would be.

So if you're concerned about Skyhammers, try some of the following:

-Transports, the cheaper the better, really blunt the blow from the devs

-Exposed infantry should be positioned in a place where the Hammerlads will get smashed the next turn. Remember, those assault marines are 80-90 points and the devs are a lot more. If you just wips 'em with a Battlecannon the next turn you've beaten the Skyhammer.

-Deploy far backfield and get objectives as far back as possible. Try to keep his army from supporting the alpha strike.

Remembering they get to choose the auto come in for turn 1 or 2 as well when deploying and moving that first turn.

Good to hear, not as scary as it could be.

 n0t_u wrote:
Remembering they get to choose the auto come in for turn 1 or 2 as well when deploying and moving that first turn.

True. They CAN choose first or second turn, but if they get first turn and don't, that A) splits up their alphastrike if they brought pods and B) gives you a chance to thwack on the rest of their forces, or position yourself better defensively/put up psychics etc. That's why you always want to push for Perimeter objectives.

Well - the skyhammer is about 50% more effective running ultramarines so....there is that part.

wow, he changed his grav to HB because of what you had...that was cool (not). Live by the grav, die by the grav

And used the points savings to purchase an extra HF dread for all my open topped transports.

That was honestly the nastiest part. The devs did the same damage they would've with grav, then they died to Solitaire and Death Jester/psychics I believe.

Since my haywire scourges refused to come in (maybe I can get a scourge hammer formation of 1x unit of scourges thag doesn't have to roll to come in or scatter....eh GW, eh?) that stupid dread torched my kabalites and bikes for two turns.

the_scotsman wrote:
He even ended up list tailoring a bit, as after he said "these guys are grav cannons, what's the harlequins armor save?" I told him they didn't have one, so he switched them to Heavy Bolters and added in an Ironclad Dread with 2x Heavy Flamers in a pod.

What an donkey-cave.

You mean the internets was up in arms over basically nothing? I find that difficult to believe!

Yeah, tailoring his list after learning what you were taking is a total dick move. I've had instances like that where I didn't do it intentionally, but being so blatant is poor sportsmanship.

Lord Corellia wrote:
You mean the internets was up in arms over basically nothing? I find that difficult to believe!

You mean a single piece of anecdotal evidence completely invalidates every single issue people had with it? I find that difficult to believe.

the_scotsman wrote:
And used the points savings to purchase an extra HF dread for all my open topped transports.

That was honestly the nastiest part. The devs did the same damage they would've with grav, then they died to Solitaire and Death Jester/psychics I believe.

Since my haywire scourges refused to come in (maybe I can get a scourge hammer formation of 1x unit of scourges thag doesn't have to roll to come in or scatter....eh GW, eh?) that stupid dread torched my kabalites and bikes for two turns.

What stopped you from doing the same thing?

 Xenomancers wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
And used the points savings to purchase an extra HF dread for all my open topped transports.

That was honestly the nastiest part. The devs did the same damage they would've with grav, then they died to Solitaire and Death Jester/psychics I believe.

Since my haywire scourges refused to come in (maybe I can get a scourge hammer formation of 1x unit of scourges thag doesn't have to roll to come in or scatter....eh GW, eh?) that stupid dread torched my kabalites and bikes for two turns.

What stopped you from doing the same thing?

I'm gonna guess honor in the game.

the_scotsman wrote:

He even ended up list tailoring a bit, as after he said "these guys are grav cannons, what's the harlequins armor save?" I told him they didn't have one, so he switched them to Heavy Bolters and added in an Ironclad Dread with 2x Heavy Flamers in a pod.

What a dick move. Wow. I would have passed on the game right then.

Or, tailored right the feth back!

Nah, I'd have baled on the game.

He was playing 8t with by far the worse way. Skyhammer isn't effective with marine primary.
But OTHER PRImary. He also used really bad chapter tactics for it.

Lord Corellia wrote:
You mean the internets was up in arms over basically nothing? I find that difficult to believe!

Yeah, tailoring his list after learning what you were taking is a total dick move. I've had instances like that where I didn't do it intentionally, but being so blatant is poor sportsmanship.

I really don't want to imply that my opponent was anything of the sort. He hadn't tossed together a list for his marines at 2k and he threw it up for this game. If for instance I owned a Razorwing I might've done the same thing to have something to fight his flyer as my list has no anti air. I don't because it costs a pretty penny and the model doesn't thrill me, I'd prefer to field the gorgeous scourges, but his dudes were modeled with HBs and the dread was wysiwyg.

It was not a move made to screw me over it was a move made for a more-fun game. Which it was. I was mostly using it as an example of how even with an added disadvantage the addition of a Skyhammer vs a mid level at best army wasn't enough to turn the game into a stomp. The game really could have gone either way and had I made any number of several critical rolls it could have ended in a tabling in my favor.

I don't think UM tactics would have been an advantage tbh. I was more annoyed by the stupid crusader rule and the BT rage/counterattack through the course of the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hawkeye888 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
And used the points savings to purchase an extra HF dread for all my open topped transports.

That was honestly the nastiest part. The devs did the same damage they would've with grav, then they died to Solitaire and Death Jester/psychics I believe.

Since my haywire scourges refused to come in (maybe I can get a scourge hammer formation of 1x unit of scourges thag doesn't have to roll to come in or scatter....eh GW, eh?) that stupid dread torched my kabalites and bikes for two turns.

What stopped you from doing the same thing?

I'm gonna guess honor in the game.

I only have one army option. I have exactly the models for that 2k list. If I had a Razorwing I'd have swapped for it, he had a flyer and I had all the anti air in the harlequin codex.

You know what game seems to be more your style????

Chess. Everything is equal. No special rules, no tricks, nothing different about the two armies.

It should help with your blood pressure.

Well I don't know what he had on his skyhammer, but the rest of the list looks super bad. Land raiders and melee squads vs DE, why would anyone do that. He should either take a second skyhammer or drop pod full of sternguard, and it is 2000 points.
at 1500 or 1850 skyhammer or dual skyhammer is a lot harder to play against.

General Hobbs wrote:


You know what game seems to be more your style????

Chess. Everything is equal. No special rules, no tricks, nothing different about the two armies.

It should help with your blood pressure.

So, what, we either shut up about GW's slowed rules team or go play chess? Lol.

Makumba wrote:
Well I don't know what he had on his skyhammer, but the rest of the list looks super bad. Land raiders and melee squads vs DE, why would anyone do that. He should either take a second skyhammer or drop pod full of sternguard, and it is 2000 points.
at 1500 or 1850 skyhammer or dual skyhammer is a lot harder to play against.

Because ordinarily you're not supposed to know what you're playing against?

I mean, sure it wasn't the single most competitive list ever but it was a TAC list at least initially (became a wee bit tailored against mine with the HBs and the Dread. It was originally grav cannon, no dread.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

General Hobbs wrote:


You know what game seems to be more your style????

Chess. Everything is equal. No special rules, no tricks, nothing different about the two armies.

It should help with your blood pressure.

What? This was a post about how I managed to have a fun, close game against the formation everyone is running around like chicken little about. It's tough particularly against people who bring stuff like Wraithknights or...I dunno if there's a guy who has footslogging terminators I feel sorry for that guy, but it's got more Counterplay options around it than something like full company Gladius, Invisible Centstar, or decurion.

lustigjh wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:


You know what game seems to be more your style????

Chess. Everything is equal. No special rules, no tricks, nothing different about the two armies.

It should help with your blood pressure.

So, what, we either shut up about GW's slowed rules team or go play chess? Lol.

I would like drop pods in chess. Deep striking pawns for the win. Or deep frying prawns work too!

Other than the Skyhammer (using BT tactics which has possibly the worst synergy with skyhammer. BT wants to get overwatched to get the bonus stats) the rest of the list is really softball. Problem with Skyhammer isn't in a list like this but in a serious hardcore list that can exploit the raw power in this formation.

I appreciate that not everyone is trying to cheeseball super hard with this (changing weapons because you don't have high armor is in poor taste) but this game isn't indicative of how much potential the formation has.

General Hobbs wrote:


You know what game seems to be more your style????

Chess. Everything is equal. No special rules, no tricks, nothing different about the two armies.

It should help with your blood pressure.

But, white always gets first turn.

BROKEN OP gak GAME