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Okay,

so I need ideas for countering the Adeptus Mechanicus ( or Skitarii, whatever ) Kataphron Destroyers that are chilling in Drop Pods, along with the Vanguards ( I believe. ) Scenarios include ITC scenarios and hybrids, there's no pure Maelstrom or pure Eternal War. I play White Scars, so my main shooting is Gravguns. I can however play whatever, since I have a custom chapter.

They also have the Canticles of Omnissiah special rules giving them Shrouded + Stealth basically when required, along with other buffs. Here are a few things I've already tried, and which just don't work:

1. Go into reserves - Worst strategy ever. The opponent gets full board control with his Drop Pods before most of your army ever hits the field, and when they do you can't charge. You can shoot some grav, but the army has a 4+ armoursave along with Stealth + Shrouded basically whenever they need it. You come in piecemeal and you get picked off, this has been tried multiple times and it just doesn't work.

2. Go into reserves but use a Damocles Command Rhino - The rhino gets destroyed. It's an AV11 Rhino. Against an army filled with Haywire and Gravcannons. Same as above.

3. Void Shield Generator - This can save you if you deploy everything inside and the Admech player doesn't manage to break the shield. They most often are able to break the shield, and then you die 5x harder as you were clumped up inside.

4. Deploy fully and hope for the best - Mmyeah. Their units have Auspexes from SM characters, Lumigen weaponry and another buff they gain from god knows where that combines into a -3 coversave at worst, so the Skilled Rider Jink save becomes next to useless.

5. Use Land Speeder Storms to disrupt Drop Podding - Their weaponry shoots far enough for them not to really care at all. Also, if there is a pod fitting gap on the field near you or inside your army somewhere, they will fit there and not scatter as you have models everywhere. In this sense spreading out becomes counter productive. Then again, not spreading out doesn't exactly make the drop pods lives harder either.

Any ideas? I've tried quite a lot but it seems almost impossible to counter unless I switch my army into a Green Tide or a fully buffed horde of Astra Militarum. I'm listening.

Two words: Torquemada Coteaz. Put some servitors with him, or anything good and ap2 and shooty in the midst of your bikers, maybe on top of a bunker or bastion or skyshield pad. Practice positioning but I think that could certainly help keep them dropping where you want them to be.

I was told Coteaz is not that good against Drop Pods, because the enemy needs to be within 12" of him.

This army can easily 'pod further and do it's business, which kinda makes him obsolete, unless there is some trick?

Oh, I was thinking the new Skitarii guns were only 12" range. Poop. What is the range of those plasma ones then? If you're running bikers, I don't think that Haywire guns would be of too much concern.

How about Iron Hands, w 2 or 3 Command Squads, all with Storm Shields and an Apothecary? You'd have 3++ w 4+ FNP to weather the storm, and then crunch all the feeble bot-men with grav and combat. But I'm a noob at Space Marines, so that's all I can think of (but the Void Shield Generator seems like a good idea...it can hold an objective too!)

Haywire guns aren't an issue for the bikes no, it's more the Heavy Gravcannons that, combo'd with bonuses and wargear give you anywhere from -1 to -3 to your cover and are AP2.

I recall their Plasma is AP2 too, and they can get 9 shots per basic squad. So that puts a dent in bikes aswell when combined with reduced cover. :/

are you open to adding new models?

The only way for you to be receiving a -3 Cover Save from Skitarii/Cult Mechanicus is Omnispex and the Phosphoenix relic pistol--which has a six inch range in exchange for making it so that you're at a -2 to your Cover Save. Also--Luminagen doesn't stack. It's a flat -1 to your Cover Save, no matter how many times a unit got hit by it.

You're also referring to a Skitarii army with a 4+ armour save on T3 models. The Elites(Sicarian Infiltrators and Ruststalkers) have a 4+/6++ with a FNP of 5+ while the standard troops(Rangers and Vanguard) have 4+ with a FNP of 6+.

And quite frankly, if someone uses the Convocation for their Skitarii and doesn't take advantage of giving a unit of Vanguard a S7 AP2 Assault 3 Plasma Gun which is usually 30 points per weapon and now doesn't "Get Hot" for free?

They're doing it wrong.

General anti-pod tactics I think apply here.

-- Give them nothing but MSU non-factor units to alpha strike (combat squads that have no specials,heavies, scouts, . Then come from reserves with the rest of the army that has the actual punch. You say you tried this but not sure you did it with enough units, nor using scouting, infiltrating, mobile units which help secure board control, if only for a little while.

--Circle the wagons. If you can sacrifice cheap rhinos and such to make a wall around your stuff, then do so. Admech is not usually capable of blowing up transports, only wrecking. So this sort of tactics cuts off LOS, and you have the rest of your stuff able to fly over wrecks and beta strike. Works really well with Khan and scout. Could also do this and hide a damoclese or comms relay unit in there and reserve tactics per above.

--Bubblewrap. Good stuff buffered by lots of chaff. Classic IG way to handle this. Similar to above idea but without the LOS blocking. Less effective against 30" ranged guns, but still an option.

--Fight fire with fire. Drop pod your own stuff at his lines. Take the advantage away from him and force his hand a bit in how he deploys.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The only way for you to be receiving a -3 Cover Save from Skitarii/Cult Mechanicus is Omnispex and the Phosphoenix relic pistol--which has a six inch range in exchange for making it so that you're at a -2 to your Cover Save. Also--Luminagen doesn't stack. It's a flat -1 to your Cover Save, no matter how many times a unit got hit by it.

You're also referring to a Skitarii army with a 4+ armour save on T3 models. The Elites(Sicarian Infiltrators and Ruststalkers) have a 4+/6++ with a FNP of 5+ while the standard troops(Rangers and Vanguard) have 4+ with a FNP of 6+.

And quite frankly, if someone uses the Convocation for their Skitarii and doesn't take advantage of giving a unit of Vanguard a S7 AP2 Assault 3 Plasma Gun which is usually 30 points per weapon and now doesn't "Get Hot" for free?

They're doing it wrong.

I did mention an Auspex, from SM characters who are joining the units. Adding an FNP and an Invulnerable Save hardly makes anything easier, than just 4+.

Well I dunno, this was just a totally unhelpful post but whatever.

 MrBlackledge wrote:
are you open to adding new models?

Aye.

Aside from 100 guardsmen.

The Rhino LOS block is an interesting idea, maybe combined with a Void Shield Generator it could offer some protection.

I guess just going MSU might be a way to go aswell. I don't have the models for it though. My list fares well against pretty much everything else except this, it's annoying to change everything just because of that but...

... this is WH40K afterall.

 Runic wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
The only way for you to be receiving a -3 Cover Save from Skitarii/Cult Mechanicus is Omnispex and the Phosphoenix relic pistol--which has a six inch range in exchange for making it so that you're at a -2 to your Cover Save. Also--Luminagen doesn't stack. It's a flat -1 to your Cover Save, no matter how many times a unit got hit by it.

You're also referring to a Skitarii army with a 4+ armour save on T3 models. The Elites(Sicarian Infiltrators and Ruststalkers) have a 4+/6++ with a FNP of 5+ while the standard troops(Rangers and Vanguard) have 4+ with a FNP of 6+.

And quite frankly, if someone uses the Convocation for their Skitarii and doesn't take advantage of giving a unit of Vanguard a S7 AP2 Assault 3 Plasma Gun which is usually 30 points per weapon and now doesn't "Get Hot" for free?

They're doing it wrong.

I did mention an Auspex, from SM characters who are joining the units. Adding an FNP and an Invulnerable Save hardly makes anything easier, than just 4+.

Well I dunno, this was just a totally unhelpful post but whatever.

It really wasn't.

You wanted to know where they might be getting a "-3 to your cover save" from. It's an upgrade for the Skitarii Rangers and Vanguard called "Omnispex". It grants it to the unit firing.

Admittedly I missed the part where you mentioned a SM character with Auspex, but I can't help you with too much in regards to Rentapod Skitarii/Cult Mechanicus as I consider it to be wildly unfluffy and currently have no intentions to field my Skitarii/Cult Mechanicus that way.

Take a knight warden it's cheap and will draw most of the heat - it's probably going down but it's a target he has to go after first.

Also - LSS is a great way to nulify these squads. Don't forget that the ceribus launcher forces a blind test and i3 models are at a serious risk of being bs1. Plus these guys make deep striking near a baord edge very risky.

A suppression force is another good way to deal with them. Hide them a place he can't see them from a pod. Then you get shred and twinlinked on him. Use ignore cover round and hes just getting 4+ saves not his 2+ covers.

Or ally in some greyknights - take purifers in drop pods and cleansing flame all over his balls.

-hes throwing IC in the squad too? Yes - the warden is the way to go.

Take allied Imperial Guard and a Crassus, stick everything that isn't reserved in there.

Use Mantis Warrior tactics with the IC who gives a unit interceptor and attach a bunch of IG artillery. Blast the most threatening unit off the table before it can fire.

Marines against massed grav-gun fire is going to be nasty, especially if it's bikes the grav-guns are firing against.

One possible suggestion is to try out the Battle Company/a maximal MSU style. At the end of the day, most of the Drop Pod power of the War Convocation is condensed into a few units -- the Knight, the Destroyers, the singular Vanguard unit. Those units can slaughter marines, but have no split fire capability -- they can only blow up one unit at a time. This isn't helpful when they can focus fire onto big expensive Grav biker units, but if they're expending a huge amount to blow up a Combat squad or an ObSec Rhino, it's really wasting their firepower. Destroyers aren't even that efficient at taking on light vehicles, it's a bit of a waste of points for them to shoot a Rhino when they deal equal damage to heavy vehicles -- the same with Haywire guns.

Another option is to do something similar to Darkwynn's Scouts. Link here: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/02/40k-unbeatable-lists-lvo-edition.html
Going down to 4+ armor helps against grav and saves you a lot of points, but that's only if you have enough scout models to make it work.

Also, specifically against Skitarii/Mechanicus -- some AP4 weapons are really good. Assault Cannons, Sternguard w/ Heavy Flamers in Drop Pods, Autocannons for the Sicarians, even Heavy Bolters work.

Some people have suggested Coteaz -- alternatives include Inquisitors with Servo-skulls, to at least stop the Scouts from the rest of the Skitarii, or you could ally into Tau for Interceptor guns.
For in-faction options, if you can take Forgeworld, maybe consider a Contemptor Mortis -- iirc the Kheres Assault Cannons are AP4, so with interceptor you'd probably blow up at least one of the Droppoding units.


EDIT:
I just remembered -- there was a Battle Report on Frontlinegaming's Twitch Channel of a War Convocation vs. White Scars. The White Scars player did reserve most of their stuff. I didn't watch to the conclusion, but take a look at it and you might get some ideas.

Thanks for the suggestions, will be checking some of these out.

I also noticed the Ravenwing Support Squadron - which you can take as a separate detachment, is quite good at deterring Drop Podding 4+ units, as it basically means a Land Speeder Vengeance and 2 other speeders with Assault Cannons punishing anyone who Deep Strikes within 24", and it doesn't cost half your army list.

Edit: Except that the Canticles can be enabled to give Stealth+Shrouded simultaneously with Drop Podding. So there goes that.

Sigh, quite a frustratingly broken combo to try and counter.

 Runic wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions, will be checking some of these out.

I also noticed the Ravenwing Support Squadron - which you can take as a separate detachment, is quite good at deterring Drop Podding 4+ units, as it basically means a Land Speeder Vengeance and 2 other speeders with Assault Cannons punishing anyone who Deep Strikes within 24", and it doesn't cost half your army list.

Edit: Except that the Canticles can be enabled to give Stealth+Shrouded simultaneously with Drop Podding. So there goes that.

Sigh, quite a frustratingly broken combo to try and counter.

If you get turn one and go first?

The Cult Mechanicus player cannot have Canticles up. They HAVE to be activated during the player turn. What's more?

At the start of your turn, add up the number of friendly units on the battlefield that have the Canticles of the Omnissiah special rule and apply the appropriate level of effect.

If his Drop Podded units aren't on the table? He can't get Shrouded and Stealth unless he has another 8+ units with Canticles on the field. A Skitarii Battle Maniple formation(what the Convocation of War requires and honestly what gives you the majority of your Canticles unit size for the Convocation of War) doesn't give you enough options for units that you could do this(you're looking at two units, tops, which could not reasonably be Drop Podded in--Onagers and Ironstriders/Dragoons--but people might not put the Ruststalkers and Infiltrators in there) and Cult Mechanicus units on the field would be fairly expensive points-wise.

So what you might see on the field from the start?
-Knight
-Ruststalkers
-Infiltrators
-Ironstrider Ballistarii or Sydonian Dragoons
-Onager Dunecrawler Squadron

If you can take out any of those, depending on what the other player puts on the field from CM, you can reasonably deny them Shrouded+Stealth before them Drop Podding.

 Runic wrote:
Okay,

so I need ideas for countering the Adeptus Mechanicus ( or Skitarii, whatever ) Kataphron Destroyers that are chilling in Drop Pods, along with the Vanguards ( I believe. ) Scenarios include ITC scenarios and hybrids, there's no pure Maelstrom or pure Eternal War. I play White Scars, so my main shooting is Gravguns. I can however play whatever, since I have a custom chapter.

They also have the Canticles of Omnissiah special rules giving them Shrouded + Stealth basically when required, along with other buffs. Here are a few things I've already tried, and which just don't work:

You need to understand the army better.

The war convocation gives the skitarii battle maniple canticles, not everything skitarii. So at max one unit of rangers and one unit of vanguard can benefit from the stealth + shrouded.
Plus the stealth+shrouded is 1 use only (although they have a thing that they can use 1 of their one use only things a second time per game)
Plus the stealth+shrouded has to be activated a turn before it goes into effect, so if you go first nothing will have it.

So my advice is try to go first, blast what you can the first turn.
Second advice, if he pops stealth+shrouded, shoot everything that doesnt have it
Heavy flamers are your friends. Vanguard have a 18" range, and with only a 4+ save and T3 they roast well.
The Kataphron Destroyers do a lot of damage with their gravcannons, but they are T5 2W 4+ for 55 points. They die pretty easily to sustained fire. Also they are not fearless, so killing 1 might make them run. Also the grav cannons do not have the omnispex so you do get cover saves against them. Even 3 of them putting out 18 shots, 9 hit, 6 wound(no grav amps), 2 die if you jink. Not the end of the world.

 Exergy wrote:

 Runic wrote:
Okay,

so I need ideas for countering the Adeptus Mechanicus ( or Skitarii, whatever ) Kataphron Destroyers that are chilling in Drop Pods, along with the Vanguards ( I believe. ) Scenarios include ITC scenarios and hybrids, there's no pure Maelstrom or pure Eternal War. I play White Scars, so my main shooting is Gravguns. I can however play whatever, since I have a custom chapter.

They also have the Canticles of Omnissiah special rules giving them Shrouded + Stealth basically when required, along with other buffs. Here are a few things I've already tried, and which just don't work:

You need to understand the army better.

The war convocation gives the skitarii maniple canticles, not everything skitarii. So at max one unit of rangers and one unit of vanguard can benefit from the stealth + shrouded.

The War Convocation is not a "Skitarii Maniple Detachment"(two Troops), it is a "Skitarii Battle Maniple Formation".
Every unit in a War Convocation, including the Skitarii Battle Maniple formation gains Canticles of the Omnissiah. A Battle Maniple formation is one of each of the following units:
Vanguard
Rangers
Ironstriders/Sydonian Dragoon(your choice) Squadron
Onager Dunecrawler Squadron
Sicarian Ruststalkers
Sicarian Infiltrators

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Runic wrote:
Okay,

so I need ideas for countering the Adeptus Mechanicus ( or Skitarii, whatever ) Kataphron Destroyers that are chilling in Drop Pods, along with the Vanguards ( I believe. ) Scenarios include ITC scenarios and hybrids, there's no pure Maelstrom or pure Eternal War. I play White Scars, so my main shooting is Gravguns. I can however play whatever, since I have a custom chapter.

They also have the Canticles of Omnissiah special rules giving them Shrouded + Stealth basically when required, along with other buffs. Here are a few things I've already tried, and which just don't work:

You need to understand the army better.

The war convocation gives the skitarii maniple canticles, not everything skitarii. So at max one unit of rangers and one unit of vanguard can benefit from the stealth + shrouded.

The War Convocation is not a "Skitarii Maniple Detachment"(two Troops), it is a "Skitarii Battle Maniple Formation".
Every unit in a War Convocation, including the Skitarii Battle Maniple formation gains Canticles of the Omnissiah. A Battle Maniple formation is one of each of the following units:
Vanguard
Rangers
Ironstriders/Sydonian Dragoon(your choice) Squadron
Onager Dunecrawler Squadron
Sicarian Ruststalkers
Sicarian Infiltrators

Yes I am aware, I phrased it wrong. Of the things that compose the Battle Maniple, the Vanguard and Rangers are the scary things, and they are limited to 2. The onager is a fairly low damage potential dread. The Rustalkers are dead weight. The Infiltrators are fragile but need to be painfully close to do damage. The Dragoons can do some damage, but only on the charge. Neither the Onager or Dragoons will likely be large squad size as the convocation takes up a lot of points minimum and you need to add in a flesh tearers detachment for drop pods.

Fair enough, but I'm just making sure that the right information is out there.

The War Convocation is hard enough to justify to some people given the fact that they see "Canticles for everyone and free upgrades!" before realizing that the Skitarii portion(which makes up a large number of your units for Canticles) is very restrictive.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Runic wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions, will be checking some of these out.

I also noticed the Ravenwing Support Squadron - which you can take as a separate detachment, is quite good at deterring Drop Podding 4+ units, as it basically means a Land Speeder Vengeance and 2 other speeders with Assault Cannons punishing anyone who Deep Strikes within 24", and it doesn't cost half your army list.

Edit: Except that the Canticles can be enabled to give Stealth+Shrouded simultaneously with Drop Podding. So there goes that.

Sigh, quite a frustratingly broken combo to try and counter.

If you get turn one and go first?

The Cult Mechanicus player cannot have Canticles up. They HAVE to be activated during the player turn.

Yeah but the point of an Interceptor Ravenwing Support Squad would've been to punish the Drop Pods. If it's my turn first then the Pods aren't landing. It is then the Admech players turn; he activates Canticles and drops in Stealth Shrouded. I'm trying to find a way to survive the alpha strike better/punish the drop podding squads. Going first doesn't really help with that, the same squads are still podding on the opponents first turn.

 Exergy wrote:
Also the grav cannons do not have the omnispex so you do get cover saves against them. Even 3 of them putting out 18 shots, 9 hit, 6 wound(no grav amps), 2 die if you jink. Not the end of the world.

Yep altough as mentioned, you get anywhere from -1 to -3 to your cover saves from the biggest hurting units ( the attached SM characters Auspex being -1 in addition to the two other maluses. Last time it was a Librarian, who luckily didn't get Invisibility. If that happens then it gets really ridiculous. ) And there's 2 units of Destroyers, both getting a -1 up to -3 depending on their secondary weaponry and who they are with.

If I remember correctly, last game the Destroyer squads both had -2 to coversaves, and they were rerolling hits from the Canticles ( or Prescience from the Librarians ) resulting in 2 bike squads wiped out on turn one. Charging them also proved to be quite ineffective, since they overwatch pretty well too when rerolling hits. And lastly, unless I remember wrong, they have We Shall Know No Fear as a Squad because of the Librarian so they won't run that far, and if they do, next turn they will shoot you again (?) Not sure about the last bit and my rulebook isn't with me now.

I also thought about Ironclads with 2 Heavy Flamers, but well. Even 2 cost quite a bit and they won't survive long: There's haywire and grav everywhere. I guess Sternguard with flamers could work? Or yeah, Purifiers.

you can always fall back on the classic put everything in Land raiders approach and run at the lines

(probably the least helpful post so far but boy is it always fun)

Well mate, I appreciate the fact you have read what has been written and actually thought about something. Cheers.

I'm thinking the Incinerators might be a solid idea. It forces the opponent to think where he puts his Destroyers, or delay them. If I have 2 squads in pods I get a guaranteed beta Incinerator strike on atleast one unit of Destroyers. ( And 2 Drop Pods that can hold objectives. ) They also hit okay when inevitably charged afterwards, and they have Wall of Death against the charge.

One way to make the reserves come on not-piecemeal is to take two detachments - one White Scars and one Raptors. (Tiggy might also do it? Not sure.) Anyway, by my reading of Lias Issodon's rules - I may have missed something - he gives you a reserve reroll even while he remains in reserve himself. He also comes with loads of other cool stuff - infiltrating 3 units is great, and giving his unit Shrouded is also rather solid.

Has to be Warlord, though, so no Khan-scout, sadly. Infiltrate almost as good on a few units...

You do need something resilient on the board for this to work, though scout-MSU might do the job...

Even just vaguely scribbled, short on antitank so might need some work, and is dual CAD which not everywhere likes:

Lias Issodon
6*5 scouts, 5 with combigravs

Captain, bike, thunderhammer, artificer armour, stormshield, auspex
2*3 bikes, 2 meltas each
3*command squad, apothecary, 3 stormshields, 4 gravs
2 stormtalons, lascannons

Would have to play it out to see if it worked, but the concept is sound I think.

 Runic wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Runic wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions, will be checking some of these out.

I also noticed the Ravenwing Support Squadron - which you can take as a separate detachment, is quite good at deterring Drop Podding 4+ units, as it basically means a Land Speeder Vengeance and 2 other speeders with Assault Cannons punishing anyone who Deep Strikes within 24", and it doesn't cost half your army list.

Edit: Except that the Canticles can be enabled to give Stealth+Shrouded simultaneously with Drop Podding. So there goes that.

Sigh, quite a frustratingly broken combo to try and counter.

If you get turn one and go first?

The Cult Mechanicus player cannot have Canticles up. They HAVE to be activated during the player turn.

Yeah but the point of an Interceptor Ravenwing Support Squad would've been to punish the Drop Pods. If it's my turn first then the Pods aren't landing. It is then the Admech players turn; he activates Canticles and drops in Stealth Shrouded. I'm trying to find a way to survive the alpha strike better/punish the drop podding squads. Going first doesn't really help with that, the same squads are still podding on the opponents first turn.

Canticles are activated at the start of the Cult Mechanicus players' game turn. He would need to have 8 or more units from the Convocation already on the table in order to activate the Shroudpsalm Canticle to its highest level(Shrouded+Stealth) even before his Drop Pods arrive.

If he's Drop Podding the Kataphron Destroyers, the Vanguard, and Rangers? Those units are not counting for Canticles, so he's relying on the Onagers, Infiltrators, Ruststalkers, Dragoons/Ballistarii, and the Knight in order to get those numbers boosted up for his Canticles before Drop Podding in. Depending on what else he's taking for Cult Mechanicus or if he's putting the Techpriest Dominus into a Drop Pod, that could be some very expensive boosters on the table exposed to your shooting before the Drop Pods arrive.

If he's activating them AFTER Drop Podding everything? Start calling him on it. The rules for Canticles expressly state "At the start of each of your turns, you can choose one Canticle of the Omnissiah" whereas Doctrina Imperatives(what the Skitarii use) specifically state they are activated at the start of your Movement phase.

 Exergy wrote:
Also the grav cannons do not have the omnispex so you do get cover saves against them. Even 3 of them putting out 18 shots, 9 hit, 6 wound(no grav amps), 2 die if you jink. Not the end of the world.

Yep although as mentioned, you get anywhere from -1 to -3 to your cover saves from the biggest hurting units ( the attached SM characters Auspex being -1 in addition to the two other maluses. Last time it was a Librarian, who luckily didn't get Invisibility. If that happens then it gets really ridiculous. ) And there's 2 units of Destroyers, both getting a -1 up to -3 depending on their secondary weaponry and who they are with.

you said you have a lot of bikes, you could change from white scars to ravenwing. You already mentioned the land Speeder Support Squadron, but your bikes get to reroll jinks plus if you add a darkshroud or two around then they can jink at 2+ or 3+ with rerolls. Unless he has the ability to ignore cover easily, you should be able to weather the storm.

Wouldn't a unit of three stalkers help? You get a shot off on the unit before they can fire. Sure each one only has about a 40% chance to wound per shot, but you are looking at 3 shots re rolling or 6 shots at two different units.

At 75 points, you can have two for every three destroyers. Most lists have 6, so you are looking at a unit of 3 Stalkers, which ignores cover and the destroyer's armor save. That should do 7-8 wounds which is enough to wipe one unit out.

The stalkers then act as a screen for your own bikes, and if they get shot up then they have served their purpose.

Buildings are immune to grav and S7 fire.

I imagine one of the bigger ones could block LoS. (Use some sacrificial rhinos near the sides and turtle up for the initial assault.) An LSS or two on the outside could limit the damage. If you're in a corner he with some terrain nearby he won't be able to drop everything super close unless he's willing to scatter off the board. Remember pods can mishap, but only around table edges.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Ravenwing Support squadron should also be decent if you get him to fire at it. With a Darkshroud it has +3 to its Jink, which should cancel his bonuses and give you a rerollable 4+. Grav cannons with no amps won't do much to it. 1 hit in 24 stripping an HP. You could have 4 HB and 3 Assault with 25+ AP 4 shots, but it's kind of pricy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, interesting rules question, what happens if the enemy can't disembark from their drop pods? (Like if you leave a gap just large enough for a pod to fall in, but not enough for any people to pop out and be more than 1" away from your units.)

Mavnas wrote:
Buildings are immune to grav and S7 fire.

I imagine one of the bigger ones could block LoS. (Use some sacrificial rhinos near the sides and turtle up for the initial assault.) An LSS or two on the outside could limit the damage. If you're in a corner he with some terrain nearby he won't be able to drop everything super close unless he's willing to scatter off the board. Remember pods can mishap, but only around table edges.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Ravenwing Support squadron should also be decent if you get him to fire at it. With a Darkshroud it has +3 to its Jink, which should cancel his bonuses and give you a rerollable 4+. Grav cannons with no amps won't do much to it. 1 hit in 24 stripping an HP. You could have 4 HB and 3 Assault with 25+ AP 4 shots, but it's kind of pricy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, interesting rules question, what happens if the enemy can't disembark from their drop pods? (Like if you leave a gap just large enough for a pod to fall in, but not enough for any people to pop out and be more than 1" away from your units.)

It becomes a mishap. You roll on the table in this case. Only in the event that the pod can be placed but models inside can not be placed.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
Buildings are immune to grav and S7 fire.

I imagine one of the bigger ones could block LoS. (Use some sacrificial rhinos near the sides and turtle up for the initial assault.) An LSS or two on the outside could limit the damage. If you're in a corner he with some terrain nearby he won't be able to drop everything super close unless he's willing to scatter off the board. Remember pods can mishap, but only around table edges.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Ravenwing Support squadron should also be decent if you get him to fire at it. With a Darkshroud it has +3 to its Jink, which should cancel his bonuses and give you a rerollable 4+. Grav cannons with no amps won't do much to it. 1 hit in 24 stripping an HP. You could have 4 HB and 3 Assault with 25+ AP 4 shots, but it's kind of pricy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, interesting rules question, what happens if the enemy can't disembark from their drop pods? (Like if you leave a gap just large enough for a pod to fall in, but not enough for any people to pop out and be more than 1" away from your units.)

It becomes a mishap. You roll on the table in this case. Only in the event that the pod can be placed but models inside can not be placed.

I don't see how that's likely to happen when you can disembarck ANYWHERE within 6" of the drop pods location. Its open-topped people.


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Unless you have a troop spread so thick that it is taking up all the board that is.

Has anyone mentioned Ahzra Rehdt yet? Some allied Mantis Warriors and a unit with sufficient firepower will get rid of at least one threat as it comes down.