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Is there any word on there being put together a fan made 8.5 or 9th edition of warhammer fantasy? I think a lot of players still want to continue to battle in the old world (and still possibly save it fluff wise) but given Age of Sigmar *boo hiss* that isn't going to happen.

I think the boys over at http://battlereporter.freeforums.org/warhammer-army-books-fan-made-unofficial-f88.html
might be the way to go forward with an emulation of their high quality works.
What do you folks think? I think that given all the vets around here it can and most likely will happen.
/

If some one is going to make a new fan edition of whfb I can offer my services as a game designer and fluff writer. I have a few ideas on what direction armies could take and rules changes to make the game run easier since I have a decade + of dealing with Fantasy Battle.
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BRB changes from me: Put the magic phase at the start of the turn before movement

/

As to what I wish to happen in the fan edition fluff wise....

At the last battle of the End Times a miracle took place. Sigmar clutching the heart of the world makes a miracle and bends time and space. In a flash he and the other incarnates are transported to 50 years before the endtimes started ( almost all the heroes in the current army books would be able to be born and live and fight that way). Sigmar in his own body in the Empire, Nagash resurrected but weaken and Archaron knowing that his victory was taken away from him. The Incarnates (including a certain Dwarf king who was the real incarnate of fire) know what the future holds and now they must prepare, they must build new armies from their realms. The battles of the end times have been wiped clean and now new wars will be fought and if the forces of light fail this time, then there will be no more hope for the old world.

We can also throw in the Sigmarines and new models from the End Times- AOS with expansions for various books

An idea for armies....
Army Books allowing players to play particular themed armies. Very much inspired by Space Marines chapter tactics basically you have the vanilla list but then you have certain artributes you can apply to your armies. Like say your playing an Imperial Army of Nuln, while gun powder weapons and pikes (very much like a 1600's battilia) would take up say core, Steam Tanks special, Knights, Demi-grpyhs and fallgellants would take up rare. While say an army from Ostland allows your spearmen to take plate armor and you can take Kislev lancers. Middenheim-Land I can see getting it's own army expansion.
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Well I'm going to be posting up the ideas people have had so far in this topic. And my own replies when applicable

@Wolflord Patrick

love the idea and I think there are some awesome things that could be done to slightly tweak 8th. Here are a few options:

1. Give Beastmen the ability to roll on the Eye of the Gods table from the End Times book.
Danno Responds: The marks of Chaos I think are good enough.

2. Update the Bretonnian book and give them a magic banner (75 pts?) that breaks Steadfast.
Danno Responds: The Brets are good at breaking steadfast

3. I'm not in favor of the idea to tone down the magic spells, (Specifically the #6 ones) but if you do you need to consider placing caps on the number of models per unit. Otherwise the door is wide open for death stars on a greater scale than what we have now.
Danno Responds: I think that spells require a characteristic test should be distributed like 1-2-3-4 D6 hits then test, instead of the entire unit doing do. I'm looking at you Firey Calfergation

4. Take the lords and hero cap back to the core book rule of 25%. If Nagash is going on the table, he should be leading a huge army to justify his presence.
Danno Responds: I agree with this.

5. (Small Change) Allow Wood Elf players that bring the extra wooded area some dimensions to work with for a max size rather than force them to try and find the GW one that's no longer available.
Danno Responds: Not a fan of this

Honestly, that's about it that I can think of. I love the 8th edition of the game and I hope there is enough of a dedicated community to not only continue playing 8th, but also enough of a community to continue with the WFB tournaments we have.

@ Ritides

The other is steadfast. Wouldn't it make sense, if making a fan edition, to say models with 2 ranks in the flank or rear of a unit break that unit's steadfast? It would allow units to hold versus monsters, but let them run away when they should if really being overwhelmed by other units (and is how things used to function, iirc, and is really needed for a more tactical game that doesn't favor making an unbreakable block).
Danno Responds: I agree with it.


@Yodhrin: EDIT: What about Golem myth as a potential source of inspiration for the Sigmarine Knights? Have them be animated constructs rather than super-buffduders.
Danno Responds: It makes plenty of sense, they look more like machine than man any way

Yeah, there has been talks of tweaking 8th edition and some of the older army books for those who still want to continue playing the edition, something which I'm more than happy to get heavily involved in. Even if nothing official gets sorted, it'd be nice at least to have a discussion which will give people ideas for their own house rules.

Me and my group are completely up to it. Count us in!

8th edition isn't very bad off as it is. if it just stays frozen forever it'll still be a good game. Only thing I'd have ever wanted to change was to tone down the power of magic spells a bit, and lower the random factory.

I think 8.5E is the way forward for Warhammer, and really not many changes needed either (worst offender for me = nuke spells + the IF mechanism). While we could whip WAOS into shape ... I'm just not convinced that all the work involved is worth it.

What awesome thing does 9E have that 8E doesn't? Shiny new units to come? It would perhaps be simpler to just build those backwards into 8.5E, where they're probably more compelling on the field anyway.

- Salvage

I love the idea and I think there are some awesome things that could be done to slightly tweak 8th. Here are a few options:

1. Give Beastmen the ability to roll on the Eye of the Gods table from the End Times book.

2. Update the Bretonnian book and give them a magic banner (75 pts?) that breaks Steadfast.

3. I'm not in favor of the idea to tone down the magic spells, (Specifically the #6 ones) but if you do you need to consider placeing caps on the number of models per unit. Otherwise the door is wide open for death stars on a greater scale than what we have now.

4. Take the lords and hero cap back to the core book rule of 25%. If Nagash is going on the table, he should be leading a huge army to justify his presence.

5. (Small Change) Allow Wood Elf players that bring the extra wooded area some dimensions to work with for a max size rather than force them to try and find the GW one that's no longer available.

Honestly, that's about it that I can think of. I love the 8th edition of the game and I hope there is enough of a dedicated community to not only continue playing 8th, but also enough of a community to continue with the WFB tournaments we have.

 Boss Salvage wrote:

What awesome thing does 9E have that 8E doesn't? Shiny new units to come? It would perhaps be simpler to just build those backwards into 8.5E, where they're probably more compelling on the field anyway.

- Salvage

This is also a very good idea. The quality of models in the starter set is admittedly high and I can see GW releasing many more nice models for AoS, so it would indeed be nice for those who want to stick with 8th edition to be able to use them.

Wolflord Patrick wrote:I love the idea and I think there are some awesome things that could be done to slightly tweak 8th. Here are a few options:

1. Give Beastmen the ability to roll on the Eye of the Gods table from the End Times book.

2. Update the Bretonnian book and give them a magic banner (75 pts?) that breaks Steadfast.

3. I'm not in favor of the idea to tone down the magic spells, (Specifically the #6 ones) but if you do you need to consider placeing caps on the number of models per unit. Otherwise the door is wide open for death stars on a greater scale than what we have now.

4. Take the lords and hero cap back to the core book rule of 25%. If Nagash is going on the table, he should be leading a huge army to justify his presence.

5. (Small Change) Allow Wood Elf players that bring the extra wooded area some dimensions to work with for a max size rather than force them to try and find the GW one that's no longer available.

Honestly, that's about it that I can think of. I love the 8th edition of the game and I hope there is enough of a dedicated community to not only continue playing 8th, but also enough of a community to continue with the WFB tournaments we have.

Well there is already a fan made bretonnia army book floating around. http://issuu.com/m4cr1ii3n/docs/warhammer__-_bretonnia

The Shadow wrote:

 Boss Salvage wrote:

What awesome thing does 9E have that 8E doesn't? Shiny new units to come? It would perhaps be simpler to just build those backwards into 8.5E, where they're probably more compelling on the field anyway.

- Salvage

This is also a very good idea. The quality of models in the starter set is admittedly high and I can see GW releasing many more nice models for AoS, so it would indeed be nice for those who want to stick with 8th edition to be able to use them.

I think it's safe to say that if the fluff is turned back 20 years with the Incarnates re-encarnating in themselves then we will have many of these units showing up in fan army books. Certainly with the sigmarines as an Expansion to the Armies of the Empire and the Khorne guys getting their own expansion of warriors of chaos.

 Boss Salvage wrote:
I think 8.5E is the way forward for Warhammer, and really not many changes needed either (worst offender for me = nuke spells + the IF mechanism). While we could whip WAOS into shape ... I'm just not convinced that all the work involved is worth it.

What awesome thing does 9E have that 8E doesn't? Shiny new units to come? It would perhaps be simpler to just build those backwards into 8.5E, where they're probably more compelling on the field anyway.

- Salvage

Yeah, I'm wondering about this, too. There were just a few key rules that I felt kept 8th from becoming what I wanted it to be...

One of these is normally addressed by the ETC I think, and that's getting half points for units or characters under half strength / half wounds.

The other is steadfast. Wouldn't it make sense, if making a fan edition, to say models with 2 ranks in the flank or rear of a unit break that unit's steadfast? It would allow units to hold versus monsters, but let them run away when they should if really being overwhelmed by other units (and is how things used to function, iirc, and is really needed for a more tactical game that doesn't favor making an unbreakable block).

I'd be open to seeing spells tweaked, too... but yeah, really interested to see if a movement like this gains momentum. Some of the new models look sweet, but the rules... the rules, egad

I was going to be quiet about already starting to hash around rules changes to 8E, but what the hell:

Wolflord Patrick wrote:1. Give Beastmen the ability to roll on the Eye of the Gods table from the End Times book.

I think some of the boosts to Beasts are a little much at times. Ignoring Lore of the Wild being garbage, I've got just two: 1) Keep the marks as allowed by ET; 2) Either drop the points on the rare monsters or give them all Regen (5+). I'd leave EotG for Warriors and RoC for Daemons, when it comes to tables.

2. Update the Bretonnian book and give them a magic banner (75 pts?) that breaks Steadfast.

Brets are very good in 8E, and gain rank bonus so easily that I don't feel a steadfast-breaking banner is needed in any way.

3. I'm not in favor of the idea to tone down the magic spells, (Specifically the #6 ones) but if you do you need to consider placeing caps on the number of models per unit. Otherwise the door is wide open for death stars on a greater scale than what we have now.

I agree, the #6 nukes are there for a reason. What I don't like are magic phases that just involve punching out a nuke at IF and calling that a phase. ETC fixes this by capping magic dice per spell (4 per spell for Death, 5 for the rest), and from experience it does make it harder to get stuff through IF - or at all if you're a level 2 reaching for 24+ casts.

4. Take the lords and hero cap back to the core book rule of 25%. If Nagash is going on the table, he should be leading a huge army to justify his presence.

I really have enjoyed the freedom of not worrying about capping out, by being able to go to 26-30%. It's kind of cool being able to spam lords too, like 3+ wyverns for O&G. A simple fix for Nagash is the same one we've done for years and years: ban special characters outside of special scenario play.

5. (Small Change) Allow Wood Elf players that bring the extra wooded area some dimensions to work with for a max size rather than force them to try and find the GW one that's no longer available.

Yea, back to X" diameter (it was 6" before, right?) works fine. I'd also move to have this wood be a mundane wood at all time, but then I play without mysterious terrain of any kind.

RiTides wrote:One of these is normally addressed by the ETC I think, and that's getting half points for units or characters under half strength / half wounds.

Yep, we always play with half VP for under 25% / fleeing. No points for half wounds or dead mounts or whatever.

The other is steadfast. Wouldn't it make sense, if making a fan edition, to say models with 2 ranks in the flank or rear of a unit break that unit's steadfast? It would allow units to hold versus monsters, but let them run away when they should if really being overwhelmed by other units (and is how things used to function, iirc, and is really needed for a more tactical game that doesn't favor making an unbreakable block).

People have been clamoring for a way to break steadfast when flanking from day one, and I'm cool with that. Frankly there aren't many ranked units in the meta now, I actually think this would bring back more than one ranked unit per army

- Salvage

 RiTides wrote:

The other is steadfast. Wouldn't it make sense, if making a fan edition, to say models with 2 ranks in the flank or rear of a unit break that unit's steadfast? It would allow units to hold versus monsters, but let them run away when they should if really being overwhelmed by other units (and is how things used to function, iirc, and is really needed for a more tactical game that doesn't favor making an unbreakable block).

I think if a unit is engaged by two separate enemy units with at least one/two ranks of five models, and at least one of those units is in its flank or rear, then it should lose any bonus it would otherwise have from Steadfast. I'd also advocate bringing something along the lines of the Unit Strength back, i.e. saying that Monsters, in particular, count as having X number of ranks for the purposes of determining Steadfast. I also reckon it'd be a decent idea for a unit to lose Steadfast if it takes more than, say, 25% casualties in a single phase, either by anything or by something that causes Terror. I think this would stop large units of cheap infantry grinding out units/models that should, in reality, walk straight through them.

I don't think monsters should be able to break steadfast, otherwise the benefit to taking big units of small dudes (tarpitting) really goes away. A player should be trying to keep their monster from getting stuck in with that unit, rather than being able to just ramshack it with the monster (imo).

But I think, if you're having to diverge from the official rules a bit anyway, why not address the thing that bothered people the most about 8th ed and really turned some folks away - might help bring them back in!

I don't think it needs to be overboard, I just remember in the past that if you had a ranked unit (so 10 or more models of infantry still alive at the end of combat, or 6 monstrous infantry) in the flank or rear of a unit, that unit wouldn't be steadfast. Just makes sense!

Looking forward to seeing what comes of these things and if there's any movement in the fantasy community to solidify one way or the other

I think that Monsters need to be brought up a little in terms of power level, though this I think will be mainly fixed by nerfing cannons slightly. Still though, I find it a bit silly how 10 clanrats can be steadfast vs a dragon, when that same dragon has likely caused that number of casualties (if not more) in the previous round of combat.

Speaking of monsters I've been thinking about it and I think there should be a section of the fan rules that allows players to use scrolls of binding in their games (making all monsters rare). That way instead of having to play storm of magic in order to get the beasties a player can look at his/her's rule book and be able to field a dragon, giant ect in the points value allowed. There are monsters that will go unplayed with otherwise.

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Also a friend of mine has purposed that at the end of the End Times Sigmar turns back time in a pyric victory, similar to my idea. But he hasn't described the scene to me enough so I am forced to improvise what it looks like.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Working back from something that AoS has done. Why not have the magic phase at the beginning of the turn before movement?

Unfortunately, I think it will be hard for any "fan ruleset" to gain traction... the more I think about this, the more it really just does seem that fantasy is going to fall into disrepair like any other "discontinued" GW property, and people who want to find games (other than in a dedicated local group) will have to go with AoS or something else entirely.

I've got plenty of other projects so will likely just leave the chaos dwarfs on the shelf until such a time as this all shakes out and I can see where they would fit! Not an unfamiliar problem for chaos dwarf players, anyway

 RiTides wrote:
Unfortunately, I think it will be hard for any "fan ruleset" to gain traction... the more I think about this, the more it really just does seem that fantasy is going to fall into disrepair like any other "discontinued" GW property, and people who want to find games (other than in a dedicated local group) will have to go with AoS or something else entirely.

It's true that a fan ruleset is hardly going to "take off" in the sense that it'll get trending on Twitter or anything like that, but if a community can come up with something, then the people in the community - even if it's only like 20 people - can all pass that on to their individual gaming groups, which will ensure that at least a decent amount of people are using, and enjoying, the fan ruleset. And besides, if, like me, the creators of said ruleset enjoy creating rules, then even if it doesn't gain traction, they've at least enjoyed it.

 The Shadow wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Unfortunately, I think it will be hard for any "fan ruleset" to gain traction... the more I think about this, the more it really just does seem that fantasy is going to fall into disrepair like any other "discontinued" GW property, and people who want to find games (other than in a dedicated local group) will have to go with AoS or something else entirely.

It's true that a fan ruleset is hardly going to "take off" in the sense that it'll get trending on Twitter or anything like that, but if a community can come up with something, then the people in the community - even if it's only like 20 people - can all pass that on to their individual gaming groups, which will ensure that at least a decent amount of people are using, and enjoying, the fan ruleset. And besides, if, like me, the creators of said ruleset enjoy creating rules, then even if it doesn't gain traction, they've at least enjoyed it.

Aye two gaming groups I'm a part of both say they will continue with 8th and with editions

I've been noticing a lot in the war scrolls a lot of silly Role Play things you may do for bonus's.


As much as I prefer to keep the possible fan edition as 'pure' in a grim dark setting as it is. I can't help but wonder if these special rules were added to the fan edition army books.

 Commissar-Danno wrote:
Speaking of monsters I've been thinking about it and I think there should be a section of the fan rules that allows players to use scrolls of binding in their games (making all monsters rare). That way instead of having to play storm of magic in order to get the beasties a player can look at his/her's rule book and be able to field a dragon, giant ect in the points value allowed. There are monsters that will go unplayed with otherwise.

-

Also a friend of mine has purposed that at the end of the End Times Sigmar turns back time in a pyric victory, similar to my idea. But he hasn't described the scene to me enough so I am forced to improvise what it looks like.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Working back from something that AoS has done. Why not have the magic phase at the beginning of the turn before movement?

You could go with he turns back time a century, then uses the last of his power to grant the Grand Theogonist a vision telling him to seek out some magical macguffin that will enable humanity to empower a handful of their most noble knightly champions with divine go-go juice, then advance the timeline 50 years again to just after they find the macguffin and form a new order of knights - gives an excuse to write up rules for using the Sigmarines without having to acknowledge the atrocious AoS BS at all.

EDIT: What about Golem myth as a potential source of inspiration for the Sigmarine Knights? Have them be animated constructs rather than super-buffduders.

EDIT: Also, even a hint of the ridiculous Shouty Playground Powers and I'm afraid whatever else gets done I won't be interested. I want to play games of Warhammer not audition for the local amateur dramatics society.

It wouldn't surprise if GW did something very similar to that in a few months. Sigmar manages to recreate the world just as you remember it, except everyone is standing on round bases now. And armies from the bubble worlds can show up from time to time for a friendly battle or two.

The only problem with a fan made 9th edition is that it would most likely lack the official nature it would need to really catch on. The same way that people didn't stop complaining about GW never updating the Bretonnian army book just because the fan made one came out. They could have just been like, "Welp, that solves that," and smacked their hands together several times to emphasize the point, but people don't really do that. They kept updating the Blood Bowl rulebooks, but they had a group to do that which everyone accepted was the group that did that. Without some semblance of authority and (likely) of professionalism, it'll just be "Here's the house rules I wish were part of the game," and maybe a handful of groups will pick it up and care. But not a whole community of war gamers like there is now.

Good opportunity for a 3rd party game publisher to put out something, even as a PDF.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and I forgot to mention, I plan on playing a campaign where Heinrich Kimmler escapes from the ruins of La Maisontaal and opens a portal to escape the End Times back to Warhammer World One. The planet where The Enemy Within Campaign happened. Interdimensional travel, that's the best way to escape Age of Sigmar.

 RiTides wrote:
Unfortunately, I think it will be hard for any "fan ruleset" to gain traction... the more I think about this, the more it really just does seem that fantasy is going to fall into disrepair like any other "discontinued" GW property, and people who want to find games (other than in a dedicated local group) will have to go with AoS or something else entirely.

I've got plenty of other projects so will likely just leave the chaos dwarfs on the shelf until such a time as this all shakes out and I can see where they would fit! Not an unfamiliar problem for chaos dwarf players, anyway

you realise AoS allows you to make a fully working chaos dwarf army? take chaos warrior count as chaos dwarfs, stick a load of hellcannons in... enjoy... heck you can even stick in a few normal dwarf units for variety or even a steamtank... nothing stops you from taking units from opposite factions or races and making them part of your themed army (you will not get the champion bonuses but you can work around that lore wise)

Gentlemen, we now have a new topic here in the purposed rules section.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/654905.page

I'm going to be turning this into a fluff thread so we can discuss how to re-make the warhammer world in the confines of the End Times.

8th pre or post end times rules?

OgreChubbs wrote:
8th pre or post end times rules?

I think we are going to be working on this as a post end times ruleset. At the same time we are going to deviate from the canon ending of WHFB End Times considerably

 Commissar-Danno wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
8th pre or post end times rules?

I think we are going to be working on this as a post end times ruleset. At the same time we are going to deviate from the canon ending of WHFB End Times considerably

Ok good cause I love my glotkin and khorne armies .

Getting rid of the special rules in Khain about magic and archaon anyone can be a general rule would help me thinks.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 Commissar-Danno wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
8th pre or post end times rules?

I think we are going to be working on this as a post end times ruleset. At the same time we are going to deviate from the canon ending of WHFB End Times considerably

Ok good cause I love my glotkin and khorne armies .

Getting rid of the special rules in Khain about magic and archaon anyone can be a general rule would help me thinks.

Well considering this is going to be a fan edition instead of a official edition the team ,that is not yet official put togeather but I want to say We with, are going to extremely limited on what we can put in model wise. That means we have to include the End Times units to add verity as well as the AoS minis to.

But with that said our armies books presentation will be fairly different. The Human armies are more than likely going to get the most expansion due to the Dogs of War (which I think should be the flagship army book for this project), Bretonnia and the Empire will have a huge verity of historical models to include in the armiy books.

I also want to say that when we do put the army books togeather we give a list of suggested retailers for models much like games work shop did with their historical range of books .

I don't really see the need to mess with the fluff just to include End Times units. Unlike the Sigmarines they fit with the existing aesthetic, so can either be used as existing units in cases like Blightblobs and Musclemasters(Nurgle & Khorne Chosen), or can be written into existing army lists as "new but old" units in the same manner stuff is retcon'd into 40K. Stormfiends, for eg, are essentially just Clan Skryre Rat Ogres.

Just excise any parts of the new unit fluff that are tied to the End Times and copypasta them into their respective factions.

The whole reason I would prefer to stick with 8th etc is because of what the End Times did to the Old World - sure you can mess with the ending so that everything doesn't go kaboom, but you're still going to end up with a whole mess of dead characters and destroyed cities, and if you rewrite the End Times to the extent that's no longer a problem, you'd be as well just ignoring it from a fluff perspective entirely.

 Yodhrin wrote:
I don't really see the need to mess with the fluff just to include End Times units. Unlike the Sigmarines they fit with the existing aesthetic, so can either be used as existing units in cases like Blightblobs and Musclemasters(Nurgle & Khorne Chosen), or can be written into existing army lists as "new but old" units in the same manner stuff is retcon'd into 40K. Stormfiends, for eg, are essentially just Clan Skryre Rat Ogres.

Just excise any parts of the new unit fluff that are tied to the End Times and copypasta them into their respective factions.

The whole reason I would prefer to stick with 8th etc is because of what the End Times did to the Old World - sure you can mess with the ending so that everything doesn't go kaboom, but you're still going to end up with a whole mess of dead characters and destroyed cities, and if you rewrite the End Times to the extent that's no longer a problem, you'd be as well just ignoring it from a fluff perspective entirely.

I am not ignoring the fluff at all. In fact I think it makes the game more exciting since the world was truly doomed if not for that miracle. It makes the game feel like 'oh crap' if we don't save the world now then we are doomed. Characters will make different decisions not leading them down the same pah, but at what cost? Then we have the heroes who died before the end times who's fates can now be in the 11th hour.

 Commissar-Danno wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I don't really see the need to mess with the fluff just to include End Times units. Unlike the Sigmarines they fit with the existing aesthetic, so can either be used as existing units in cases like Blightblobs and Musclemasters(Nurgle & Khorne Chosen), or can be written into existing army lists as "new but old" units in the same manner stuff is retcon'd into 40K. Stormfiends, for eg, are essentially just Clan Skryre Rat Ogres.

Just excise any parts of the new unit fluff that are tied to the End Times and copypasta them into their respective factions.

The whole reason I would prefer to stick with 8th etc is because of what the End Times did to the Old World - sure you can mess with the ending so that everything doesn't go kaboom, but you're still going to end up with a whole mess of dead characters and destroyed cities, and if you rewrite the End Times to the extent that's no longer a problem, you'd be as well just ignoring it from a fluff perspective entirely.

I am not ignoring the fluff at all. In fact I think it makes the game more exciting since the world was truly doomed if not for that miracle. It makes the game feel like 'oh crap' if we don't save the world now then we are doomed. Characters will make different decisions not leading them down the same pah, but at what cost? Then we have the heroes who died before the end times who's fates can now be in the 11th hour.

No, what I was saying is the result of rewriting the End Times can only really result in two outcomes - 1; You tweak things here and there, this or that character survives when before they died, but you'll still end up with fluff that's going to put a lot of people off(eg, you don't really find Marienburg interesting, so you decide to let its destruction stand in your new material, but I really like Marienburg and had themed my Empire collection around it during 8th - I'm now much less likely to be interested in your version of 8.5/9th), or 2; You roll back almost all the changes the End Times made in order to avoid alienating people, in which case there's not much point in the rewrite at all, and you'd be better served just ignoring the End Times from a fluff perspective and focus instead on fluff that allows you to retcon ET units into a pre-ET Warhammer World.

IMO anyway.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Commissar-Danno wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I don't really see the need to mess with the fluff just to include End Times units. Unlike the Sigmarines they fit with the existing aesthetic, so can either be used as existing units in cases like Blightblobs and Musclemasters(Nurgle & Khorne Chosen), or can be written into existing army lists as "new but old" units in the same manner stuff is retcon'd into 40K. Stormfiends, for eg, are essentially just Clan Skryre Rat Ogres.

Just excise any parts of the new unit fluff that are tied to the End Times and copypasta them into their respective factions.

The whole reason I would prefer to stick with 8th etc is because of what the End Times did to the Old World - sure you can mess with the ending so that everything doesn't go kaboom, but you're still going to end up with a whole mess of dead characters and destroyed cities, and if you rewrite the End Times to the extent that's no longer a problem, you'd be as well just ignoring it from a fluff perspective entirely.

I am not ignoring the fluff at all. In fact I think it makes the game more exciting since the world was truly doomed if not for that miracle. It makes the game feel like 'oh crap' if we don't save the world now then we are doomed. Characters will make different decisions not leading them down the same pah, but at what cost? Then we have the heroes who died before the end times who's fates can now be in the 11th hour.

No, what I was saying is the result of rewriting the End Times can only really result in two outcomes - 1; You tweak things here and there, this or that character survives when before they died, but you'll still end up with fluff that's going to put a lot of people off(eg, you don't really find Marienburg interesting, so you decide to let its destruction stand in your new material, but I really like Marienburg and had themed my Empire collection around it during 8th - I'm now much less likely to be interested in your version of 8.5/9th), or 2; You roll back almost all the changes the End Times made in order to avoid alienating people, in which case there's not much point in the rewrite at all, and you'd be better served just ignoring the End Times from a fluff perspective and focus instead on fluff that allows you to retcon ET units into a pre-ET Warhammer World.

IMO anyway.

Yes I will be writing the units from the End times into the fluff but the End TImes it self will play a minor role, I am trying to include units from Age of Sigmar beyond the End Times. Over all nothing will change from before the end times suffice that the new units will be included along with the ability for the fan edition to create new factions and army books. I feel as though its a greater disservice if I just ret-con out the past year of fantasy fluff than ignore it completely.