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So models in a Nemesis Strike Force -detachment can both Run and Shoot, in any order, in the same turn that they arrive from Deep Strike Reserve. Arriving by Drop Pod, asfar as I know is arriving with Deep Strike and it happens from Deep Strike Reserves.

Can a Purifier -squad therefore exit an allied FA Drop Pod, fire their incinerators, and try to run backwards to safety afterwards or perhaps to an objective? Would also be handy if you scatter further, as you would still get to deliver by running closer first.

And secondly, does this really work:

Drop Pod Assault: "Drop Pods and units emarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike Reserves."

Rites of Teleportation: "Instead of making Reserve Rolls from the start of your turn two, you can make Reserve Rolls for any unit in this Formation that is placed in Deep Strike Reserve from the start of your turn one."

Combined Reserve Units: " In either case when making a Reserve Roll for a combined unit, roll a single dice for the unit and/or its Independent Character/Transport vehicle.

At the end of DPA "The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally."

And, "Arriving by Deep Strike":
"Roll for the arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves."

A Deep Striking Transport confers the Deep Strike USR to any embarked units. Per the Combined Unit rules as well as the rules for Deep Strike and Deep Striking Transports, an embarked unit that changes the reserve rules will effect the Transport the unit is embarked upon. As such and per RAW, the Purifiers in question can roll to arrive on Turn 1 via Rites of Teleportation.

So you can roll to get your 2nd or say, 3rd pod to arrive on turn one if it contains a Nemesis Strike Force unit?

Is making a combined reserve roll for a Drop Pod and unit of Purifiers from a Nemesis Strike Force detachment the same thing as rolling for a unit of Purifiers from a Nemesis Strike Force detachment?

It works

You can't roll for the pod turn one. You aren't rolling for the unit inside - you know this because you aren't placing a model from the unit as a marker. You place the drop old.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You can't roll for the pod turn one. You aren't rolling for the unit inside - you know this because you aren't placing a model from the unit as a marker. You place the drop old.

Already found out that this actually does work and you can roll for the pod on turn 1. Here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/621974.page

"Combined Reserve Units
Arriving from Reserves
Drop Pod Assault
Rites of Teleportation

Those four rules do not contradict each other, nor include restriction language baring modification by other more advanced rules. Combined Reserve Units tells one roll for all units in the combined group. Arriving from Reserves tells us the combined group must arrive on the same turn together. Drop Pod Assault tells us that any Drop Pod that does arrive on turn may roll to enter play normally. Rites of Teleportation changes the normal Turn 2 roll into a Turn 1 roll, in effect allowing the combined unit to normally roll to enter play on Turn 1."

Everything has been gone trough in that thread so I won't continue it in another however, I just didn't find anything with search first. I consider this now resolved.

That one there was one of my best posts ... except for the typo. : (

SJ

RAW yes you can - RAI - most definitely no.

You are not making a roll for the unit from the nsf, but the pod plus unit. How are you fulfilling the requirement to be rolling for a unit sole, not a combined unit?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You are not making a roll for the unit from the nsf, but the pod plus unit. How are you fulfilling the requirement to be rolling for a unit sole, not a combined unit?

combined unit rules mandate that a single roll is made for the unit plus its dedicated transport.

The only requirement listed in the NSF ruling is that the unit be part of the NSF detachment AND be in deep strike reserves. Purifers meet both of these requirements when placed in a drop pod.

The fault truely lies when the rules for drop pods. Drop pods should grant a special deep strike reserves that is called Drop pod reserves or something to the effect. So there aren't any interactions between deep strike and deep strike reserves triggers from drop pods.

RAW and RAI say yes actually.


some people would argue that the unit inside a drop pod is not arriving from reserves or deep strike reserves for this purpose.


but then would be happy to interceptor them.


Have fun with it, its not like its crazy OP or anything either.

I'm getting confused, how can you roll for turn 1 deep strike with a model that is not in the formation (the pod) ?

You are making a roll to let 2 units into the game, the pods and the unit inside it. One of those is not allowed to roll turn 1.

It's quite a mess honestly, but if the opinion is that it can then i guess they can.

Spoletta wrote:
I'm getting confused, how can you roll for turn 1 deep strike with a model that is not in the formation (the pod) ?

Dedicated Transports are part of the detachment of the unit that purchased it. Formations are not excluded from this.

So, only if the Drop Pod was from another detachment that was not a duplicate, than would it not be included.

Charistoph wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
I'm getting confused, how can you roll for turn 1 deep strike with a model that is not in the formation (the pod) ?

Dedicated Transports are part of the detachment of the unit that purchased it. Formations are not excluded from this.

So, only if the Drop Pod was from another detachment that was not a duplicate, than would it not be included.

Great and completely irrelevant to the topic. The Drop Pod is not a dedicated transport in this discussion.

The rule that allows one to roll for the Purifiers and not the Drop Pod is:

Combined Reserve Units: " In either case when making a Reserve Roll for a combined unit, roll a single dice for the unit and/or its Independent Character/Transport vehicle. "

In the above, 'the unit' is the Purifiers and 'its Transport' is the Drop Pod (from a different detachment). This rule gives permission to roll for either the Purifiers or the Drop Pod when making reserve rolls for the Combined Unit. If you choose to roll with the Purifiers, then you have permission to roll on turn 1 via the Rites of Teleportation rule. If successful, the entire combined unit will arrive, including the Drop Pod.

It works, ignore the nay sayers, you've already shown your proof

So you're rolling for the purifiers to arrive, now place one model from the unit arriving. You've already picked the purifiers, now show they have the ds rule.

I rolled for the combined unit (Purifiers and their Transport). Following the rules for rolling for the combined unit, I rolled for the Purifiers. It was successful, therefore the combined unit (Drop Pod and Purifiers) may come in. At that point I place the Drop Pod and roll for scatter, since that's how units in Drop Pods work.

You rolled for the purifiers. You now must place a model from the unit arriving - which you stated to be the purifiers - on the table. Except you can't.

Still doesn't work.

In the case of "and/or" and "IC/transport" it could certainly be argued that the former applies to the former, and the latter applies to the latter. It certainly seems to make the most sense. Why else would there be an "and/or" in the first place?

In any case, i don't think many TOs would let you do it, though it wouldn't be the dumbest thing a TO has ever let happen

Zimko wrote:
I rolled for the combined unit (Purifiers and their Transport). Following the rules for rolling for the combined unit, I rolled for the Purifiers. It was successful, therefore the combined unit (Drop Pod and Purifiers) may come in. At that point I place the Drop Pod and roll for scatter, since that's how units in Drop Pods work.

But is the Drop Pod their transport? I mean, the unit doesn't "own" the Drop Pod (like they would with a Dedicated Transports).

 Happyjew wrote:

Zimko wrote:
I rolled for the combined unit (Purifiers and their Transport). Following the rules for rolling for the combined unit, I rolled for the Purifiers. It was successful, therefore the combined unit (Drop Pod and Purifiers) may come in. At that point I place the Drop Pod and roll for scatter, since that's how units in Drop Pods work.

But is the Drop Pod their transport? I mean, the unit doesn't "own" the Drop Pod (like they would with a Dedicated Transports).

Doesn't matter, it's a Combined Unit.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

Zimko wrote:
I rolled for the combined unit (Purifiers and their Transport). Following the rules for rolling for the combined unit, I rolled for the Purifiers. It was successful, therefore the combined unit (Drop Pod and Purifiers) may come in. At that point I place the Drop Pod and roll for scatter, since that's how units in Drop Pods work.

But is the Drop Pod their transport? I mean, the unit doesn't "own" the Drop Pod (like they would with a Dedicated Transports).

Doesn't matter, it's a Combined Unit.

SJ

...and by rolling for the purifiers, they are the unit you are stating as arriving by deepstrike, yet they don't have the rule. Further even if you hand wave that away, which wouldn't be a first here, you then need to place one model from the purifiers on the table. Yet you then can't place the pod.

The and/or wording is poorly worded for me, but supposing you can roll for either the Purifiers, the Drop Pod or the Purifiers and Drop Pod you get three choices.

1. Roll for the Purifiers. They don't have the Deep Strike special rule and you're unable to actually place a model from the unit on the board, because you have to place the Drop Pod.

2. Roll for the Drop Pod. You can't do this of course because it's not a unit in the Nemesis Strike Force.

3. Roll for the Purifiers and Drop Pod. This brings me back to my original question in the thread, of whether "Purifiers and a Drop Pod" can be equated with being a unit in hte Nemesis Strike Force.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

Zimko wrote:
I rolled for the combined unit (Purifiers and their Transport). Following the rules for rolling for the combined unit, I rolled for the Purifiers. It was successful, therefore the combined unit (Drop Pod and Purifiers) may come in. At that point I place the Drop Pod and roll for scatter, since that's how units in Drop Pods work.

But is the Drop Pod their transport? I mean, the unit doesn't "own" the Drop Pod (like they would with a Dedicated Transports).

Doesn't matter, it's a Combined Unit.

SJ

...and by rolling for the purifiers, they are the unit you are stating as arriving by deepstrike, yet they don't have the rule. Further even if you hand wave that away, which wouldn't be a first here, you then need to place one model from the purifiers on the table. Yet you then can't place the pod.

Prove your statement with rules, please.

SJ