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 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
Is it bad that when playing Fallout 3, I always wanted to join the Enclave? Screw the Brotherhood of Steel, let me join and fight for the Enclave!

Yes? 0.o

New Vegas was the game which humanised them, all the other ones had them as fascist genocidal maniacs... So ah. ...

 SilverMK2 wrote:
I would just point out that engineering and engineers are scientists too; unfortunately the title has been coopted to mean "anyone who can hold a spanner".

Erhm.... No, You can have scientists who are engineers (they hold a PhD), but an Engineer isn't a Scientist. The curriculum is completely different, and does not contain any of the philosophy of Science classes necessary for the Sciences.

This is why there is a distinction between an EE and a CS degree at the undergraduate level (or between a Biologist, and a Bio-engineer. Or a Mechanist (Mechanical Physics) and a Mechanical Engineer, and so on)

At the graduate level, the two are pretty much indistinguishable in general terms (although in the specifics still rather distinct).

I am not talking about Mechanics (guys who hold wrenches/spanners - not Mechanical Engineers). Mechanics usually do not do things like Structural Analysis using software simulations of the components they deal with (buildings, aircraft, pipes, turbines, dams, bridges, tunnels, railroad engines, windmills, spacecraft, etc.). They just take a mechanical object and put it in working order.

This does not mean that a Mechanic is uneducated, like a Contractor building a house, they often are required to know how to read technical specifications.

But an Engineer will know how to create those specifications.

As for the distinctions between a Scientist and an Engineer.

An engineer will know how to do basic analysis (which sounds more simplistic than it is "Basic Analysis" is horrifically complex), but will likely not know how to set up double-blind controls for an experiment, and might not have had the statistical breadth to understand how to interpret the data from an experiment.

There is a reason why the Engineering Schools at Universities is separate from the Sciences (Letters & Sciences). Because Engineers are not Scientists and Scientists are not Engineers (although some Interdisciplinary Programs are beginning to bridge the two).

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:

 stanman wrote:
I'd prefer to just have everyone gone, cleanse humanity with fire and get it over with.

And onto the government watchlist you go...

This site had a fun article on the subject of guys who go on about how great it'll be when the apocalypse comes, because they'll totally be so prepared and it'll be frickin awesome!

Note, the article's called "The Post-Apocalyptic World Sucks Balls"... It does make the point, if you're so eager to experience such a scenario, then take a wee trip to a developing world's ghetto. The video games don't really put across the stink of all those shanty towns. =P

spend 6 months in afghanistan and you will never want that to spread

I spent about three months there in 1987-89.

To say that the society has degenerated would be an understatement.

All of us working on the ground were like "We need to just let the Soviets have Afghanistan. These guys we are working with are just going to feth it all to hell."

But the bosses said "Communism is Bad, mKay! Apple Pie! Mom! America!" and the place went to hell.

It was already pretty bad, but the cities still had modern centers that had not yet been destroyed.

But out East (nearer to China) in both counties (Afghanistan and Pakistan) they were still living in the Stone Age.

It was heart-wrenching.

It made me VERY AWARE of the differences between Enlightenment and non-Enlightenment societies (South America and the Asian Pacific Rim would further solidify that awareness).

And some of the gak we found in the Mountains of South America (things people were doing - imitating the Mezo-American Cultures) was just horrific.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And in the event of a large-scale EMP Event, we would be RAPIDLY reduced to a society like that in a Video Game, where you would have this walled-off city full of technological marvels, while most of the population outside would die-off, and regress to an agrarian society (probably feudal, since that seems to be the point of lowest energy).

MB

BeAfraid wrote:
Erhm.... No, You can have scientists who are engineers (they hold a PhD), but an Engineer isn't a Scientist. The curriculum is completely different, and does not contain any of the philosophy of Science classes necessary for the Sciences.

Erm... I am both an engineer and a scientist. And a clinician and mechanic too...

And I dont know what scientific or engineering courses you have been on, but two of my masters are classified as masters of science (one in Biomedical Engineering, one in Clinical Engineering), and my third masters is classified as a masters of engineering (biomedical engineering). All three qualifications, from three different institutions, fused engineering and science together. One cannot be an engineer without also being a scientist.

Engineers have to be able to analyse and interpret data and set up trials exactly the same as scientists do. In fact, engineers are often able to design very statistically efficient trials as industry regularly carries out quality assurance and no one likes wasting time and money testing products and production methods

And just as an aside I do practical and design engineering, clinical research, and engineering based scientific research. As I was trained to do (and am inclined to do)... as an ENGINEER, and a SCIENTIST.

Think some of you all is rebuilding everything.....
Majority of everything is still in place (roads)

Shelter/protection
Water
Food

goes into

Sustainability

Eventually
Barter/trade with others

If your running a group of people who do you let in and who do you exclude

 Jihadin wrote:
Think some of you all is rebuilding everything.....
Majority of everything is still in place (roads)

Shelter/protection
Water
Food

goes into

Sustainability

Eventually
Barter/trade with others

If your running a group of people who do you let in and who do you exclude

Who do you exclude? Isn't that obvious, the Blacks, the Jews the Muslims and christians the mexicans and europeans and the asians. ohh and most importantly, we exclude the white people. So in the end Dogs rule the world YAY!

So in the end Dogs rule the world YAY!

Team Wienie approved this message.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Think some of you all is rebuilding everything.....
Majority of everything is still in place (roads)

Shelter/protection
Water
Food

goes into

Sustainability

Eventually
Barter/trade with others

If your running a group of people who do you let in and who do you exclude

Who do you exclude? Isn't that obvious, the Blacks, the Jews the Muslims and christians the mexicans and europeans and the asians. ohh and most importantly, we exclude the white people. So in the end Dogs rule the world YAY!

Unsure if serious but so far this is a trust issue so I let a MOD decide eventually

Kronk is a auto in (trigger puller and entertainment)
Same as Bromsey (240B gunner)


You Ghaz might be SOL

 Jihadin wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Think some of you all is rebuilding everything.....
Majority of everything is still in place (roads)

Shelter/protection
Water
Food

goes into

Sustainability

Eventually
Barter/trade with others

If your running a group of people who do you let in and who do you exclude

Who do you exclude? Isn't that obvious, the Blacks, the Jews the Muslims and christians the mexicans and europeans and the asians. ohh and most importantly, we exclude the white people. So in the end Dogs rule the world YAY!

Unsure if serious but so far this is a trust issue so I let a MOD decide eventually

Kronk is a auto in (trigger puller and entertainment)
Same as Bromsey (240B gunner)


You Ghaz might be SOL

LOL If you haven't figured out yet that I am never serious about racism then we need to recheck you for TBI . I was 2621 Intel but I used to hit black all day every day with a M16A4 RCO And I was a shoe in with the 203...loved me some cheesey puff rounds.

As a former EOA there is such a thing as going to far

 Jihadin wrote:
As a former EOA there is such a thing as going to far

As a former Marine, if your offended go get a straw and suck it the ...you now the rest

Our EO rep hated us so much LOL

 Jihadin wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Think some of you all is rebuilding everything.....
Majority of everything is still in place (roads)

Shelter/protection
Water
Food

goes into

Sustainability

Eventually
Barter/trade with others

If your running a group of people who do you let in and who do you exclude

Who do you exclude? Isn't that obvious, the Blacks, the Jews the Muslims and christians the mexicans and europeans and the asians. ohh and most importantly, we exclude the white people. So in the end Dogs rule the world YAY!

Unsure if serious but so far this is a trust issue so I let a MOD decide eventually

Kronk is a auto in (trigger puller and entertainment)
Same as Bromsey (240B gunner)


You Ghaz might be SOL

The Great Wienie is displeased to not be in your circle of trust, and has vowed to turn your inner circle into a biohazard of epic proportions the next time His Magnificence indulges in some good Tex Mex.

I've eaten dog in real life. Couple times to. If it comes down to extending the food stores.........

Thats ok. The Great Wienie says long pig is excellent, and really stretches the cupboard if things are tight.

All it take is Ketchup
Ketchup makes anything edible
Looking kind of plump there Frazz

 Jihadin wrote:
All it take is Ketchup
Ketchup makes anything edible
Looking kind of plump there Frazz

Jalapeno Cheese to pronounced Ja lop ino :-P

 Jihadin wrote:
All it take is Ketchup
Ketchup makes anything edible
Looking kind of plump there Frazz

1. Ketchup-yes indeedy!
2. Yep, but I'm gristly and taste like old wiener dog. On the positive, you'll need a really good barbeque sauce, and hickory smoke. Smoked Frazzled, its whats for dinner.

I wanna put my vote into some literate and fit people. and one human size stack of books on just about everything needed to survive.

At least one that knows how to hunt and use the pointy sticks.

Live ammo would become scarce later on unless one acquire someone who can reload rounds
Believe everyone should learn that skill and keep eye's out for brass of assorted rounds (spent and unspent)
Can see black powder weapons becoming norm and modern fire arms being used at defense
Looking at bow hunting for most part
Fishing
Ducks...........might be a problem

Using live rounds would give away one's position and might bring the "bad" people who are in raider mode.

 Jihadin wrote:
Live ammo would become scarce later on unless one acquire someone who can reload rounds
Believe everyone should learn that skill and keep eye's out for brass of assorted rounds (spent and unspent)
Can see black powder weapons becoming norm and modern fire arms being used at defense
Looking at bow hunting for most part
Fishing
Ducks...........might be a problem

Using live rounds would give away one's position and might bring the "bad" people who are in raider mode.

Bows are always a good solution for hunting, especially since it doesn't take that much skill to make your own ammunition. where as gunpowder weapons require a fair amount of manufacture (Nitrates and what have you)

From caves

A major natural source of potassium nitrate was the deposits crystallizing from cave walls and the accumulations of bat guano in caves.[16] Extraction is accomplished by immersing the guano in water for a day, filtering, and harvesting the crystals in the filtered water. Traditionally, guano was the source used in Laos for the manufacture of gunpowder for Bang Fai rockets.
LeConte

Perhaps the most exhaustive discussion of the production of this material is the 1862 LeConte text.[17] He was writing with the express purpose of increasing production in the Confederate States to support their needs during the American Civil War. Since he was calling for the assistance of rural farming communities, the descriptions and instructions are both simple and explicit. He details the "French Method", along with several variations, as well as a "Swiss method". N.B. Many references have been made to a method using only straw and urine, but there is no such method in this work.
French method

Niter-beds are prepared by mixing manure with either mortar or wood ashes, common earth and organic materials such as straw to give porosity to a compost pile typically 1.5×2×5 meters in size.[17] The heap was usually under a cover from the rain, kept moist with urine, turned often to accelerate the decomposition, then finally leached with water after approximately one year, to remove the soluble calcium nitrate which was then converted to potassium nitrate by filtering through the potash.
Swiss method

LeConte describes a process using only urine and not dung, referring to it as the Swiss method. Urine is collected directly, in a sandpit under a stable. The sand itself is dug out and leached for nitrates which were then converted to potassium nitrate via potash, as above.
From nitric acid

From 1903 until the World War I era, potassium nitrate for black powder and fertilizer was produced on an industrial scale from nitric acid produced via the Birkeland–Eyde process, which used an electric arc to oxidize nitrogen from the air. During World War I the newly industrialized Haber process (1913) was combined with the Ostwald process after 1915, allowing Germany to produce nitric acid for the war after being cut off from its supplies of mineral sodium nitrates from Chile (see nitratite).

Pretty sure we would have that covered.

Sulfur might be the issue

Il take a X bow in this kinda situation thanks.

Though having a firearm available is probably going to be a good idea

I wonder what kinda personality would be needed. and what kinda social experiments can be had.

Strong mental fortitude
Can do attitude
Survival fore most on one's mind
Complacency gets one killed

 Jihadin wrote:
Strong mental fortitude
Can do attitude
Survival fore most on one's mind
Complacency gets one killed

for you.

in Frazzled's Island Paradise and Leash Free Dog Park its the hang loose clothing optional spirit that will win the day.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
[quote



Side note: Did you mean "Military Men" or did you mean anyone military because realistically I would take Military women to. Not the average woman though, just the top 1%, the ones that go hard or not at all

It's just a bad habit. I have never seen a female military anything before and much of the history I enjoy reading obviously features primarily military men and thus as I type what I think etc...

Obviously a camp with only men will not work for long as a society.

Wasn't there Russian female snipers in ww2?

dannydakka wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
[quote



Side note: Did you mean "Military Men" or did you mean anyone military because realistically I would take Military women to. Not the average woman though, just the top 1%, the ones that go hard or not at all

It's just a bad habit. I have never seen a female military anything before and much of the history I enjoy reading obviously features primarily military men and thus as I type what I think etc...

Obviously a camp with only men will not work for long as a society.

Wasn't there Russian female snipers in ww2?

Some, but not many