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After looking through the rules for DoC I realized that Summon Herald of Tzeentch is busted because it is self replicating. A Herald of Tzeentch can just summon another Herald of Tzeentch practically infinity times. Just use Arcane Tome so that "Summon Herald of Tzeentch"'s 5 to cast is on 3d6 giving you a 98% success rate. Then the new Herald just repeats the process. The worst part is when ever you roll a 9+ (which on 3d6 is pretty likely) you get to cast a 2nd time (a different spell mind you) which can be another summon spell like a Disc Herald so that you have another Ancient Tome to summon another Foot Herald for redundancy but can also be Mystic Shield or Arcane Bolt.

So if you take an army that is only a Herald on Foot and a Herald on Disc. With only two models you will be done deploying before any normal list thus guaranteeing you go first and get to fill your deployment zone before any response can be taken. Also as long as your opponent has 3 or more models that lets you pick an alternate win condition so you can just pick Endure and give your two starting models so many mystic shields from your free spells from 9+'s that they can't fail saves and you should be out of range of anything that deals mortal wounds since there is at least 30" of models in the way (or they are just out of LoS because of terrain). Then all of the Heralds get a two shot 18" missile attack and in the following turns can just spam Arcane Bolt.

Seems like it would work. Why would you want to do this though? Would it be fun for you or your opponent?

Looks like a funny new game.

Trystis wrote:
Seems like it would work. Why would you want to do this though? Would it be fun for you or your opponent?

As someone who has spent his entire gaming career stretching and bending rules and effects of various games to find the most shenanigans way to win, yes I would have fun playing this list. That's why I figured this out.

I know though that no one would enjoy playing against this (except for me) so I'm posting this so people are aware of it and can house rule it.

6/10, would still lose to Fateweaver + Screaming Bell

CrownAxe. I see your summoning and challenge thee to a dual. Your massed summoning vs. my single Carrion.

You have infinite Herald of Tzeentch to put on the top of the table and play with them?

Yes, it's broken, but you can add to the table only the mini's you have

 Dakkamite wrote:
6/10, would still lose to Fateweaver + Screaming Bell

that has been debunked multiple times, just the fact that some keep on using it shows why people play for fun these days and not silly competitive mindset.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CrownAxe wrote:
After looking through the rules for DoC I realized that Summon Herald of Tzeentch is busted because it is self replicating. A Herald of Tzeentch can just summon another Herald of Tzeentch practically infinity times. Just use Arcane Tome so that "Summon Herald of Tzeentch"'s 5 to cast is on 3d6 giving you a 98% success rate. Then the new Herald just repeats the process. The worst part is when ever you roll a 9+ (which on 3d6 is pretty likely) you get to cast a 2nd time (a different spell mind you) which can be another summon spell like a Disc Herald so that you have another Ancient Tome to summon another Foot Herald for redundancy but can also be Mystic Shield or Arcane Bolt.

So if you take an army that is only a Herald on Foot and a Herald on Disc. With only two models you will be done deploying before any normal list thus guaranteeing you go first and get to fill your deployment zone before any response can be taken. Also as long as your opponent has 3 or more models that lets you pick an alternate win condition so you can just pick Endure and give your two starting models so many mystic shields from your free spells from 9+'s that they can't fail saves and you should be out of range of anything that deals mortal wounds since there is at least 30" of models in the way (or they are just out of LoS because of terrain). Then all of the Heralds get a two shot 18" missile attack and in the following turns can just spam Arcane Bolt.

at the end of the game all your summoned units count as dead... with endure the enemy can just force through and attack the single unit you nominated and win, its not hard in 6 rounds to push through a couple of heralds, and remember that the enemy wizards can also attempt to unbind your spell and there are plenty of other "heroes" and special rules that make it harder for you to do as such an annoying use of powers, remember that you WILL fail a roll at least once and when that happens the other player is free to rule over you... for example, I could take a horde of tomb scorpions and during movement phase I can just summon them all near your nominated Herald and win the game first turn... unless you think your herald can survive an onslaught of infinite tomb scorpions...

but most of all, remember the "MOST IMPORTANT RULE"... talk with your opponent, do not be a dick... sometimes being a dick is still being a dick no matter how legal it is...

I think sanity demands a ruling that summoned units cannot act in the command phase of which they are summoned.

Kairos has a better one IMO, and it isn't based on the wonky Bell trick.


1. Take Kairos and a Great Bray Shaman.
2. The Great Bray knows Savage Dominion. As a friendly wizard within 18", Kairos also knows Savage Dominion.
3. Kairos casts Savage Dominion to summon a Monster. This new Monster is... another Kairos.
4. Kairos rolls anything. He changes a D6 to a 6, and then his Oracle kicks in, meaning he casts a 12 every single time. Automatic success.
5. If you can pronounce 'Noinimod Egavas' then you gain +2 to the roll, making it a 14. It is now impossible to Unbind the spell.
6. This second Kairos now gets to summon. He casts Savage Dominion again, and a third Kairos joins the party.
7. Repeat previous steps until the board is now Kairos, filling up like the world's saddest clown car.

oh GW can't you even make a new game right.

Mozzamanx wrote:
Kairos has a better one IMO, and it isn't based on the wonky Bell trick.


1. Take Kairos and a Great Bray Shaman.
2. The Great Bray knows Savage Dominion. As a friendly wizard within 18", Kairos also knows Savage Dominion.
3. Kairos casts Savage Dominion to summon a Monster. This new Monster is... another Kairos.
4. Kairos rolls anything. He changes a D6 to a 6, and then his Oracle kicks in, meaning he casts a 12 every single time. Automatic success.
5. If you can pronounce 'Noinimod Egavas' then you gain +2 to the roll, making it a 14. It is now impossible to Unbind the spell.
6. This second Kairos now gets to summon. He casts Savage Dominion again, and a third Kairos joins the party.
7. Repeat previous steps until the board is now Kairos, filling up like the world's saddest clown car.

Epic. And the rules totally deserve this kind of treatment, imo

It's not even hard to find these combos, with all of these getting figured out in just a few days...

You'd still lose even with infinite Heralds because I have an imaginary friend that I have conversations with while looking you right in the eye with my huge mustache, right after I make animal sounds and throw dice out the window.

You misread the rules, the Herald of Tzeentch doesn't know the spell "summon herald herald of tzeentch". Only Chaos Wizards do. So you could not infinitely summon a herald.

Pretty much, if you play warriors of chaos you can summon demons.

Isn't a Herald a chaos wizard?

 Redbad wrote:
Isn't a Herald a chaos wizard?

No in its description it is not listed, but if you go to the warriors of chaos a lot of their warscrolls are listed as wizards.

Mozzamanx wrote:
7. Repeat previous steps until the board is now Kairos, filling up like the world's saddest clown car.

and now people at work are looking at me funny.

 Pael wrote:

 Redbad wrote:
Isn't a Herald a chaos wizard?

No in its description it is not listed, but if you go to the warriors of chaos a lot of their warscrolls are listed as wizards.

Not how the keywords work. You just need to have both the Chaos and the Wizard tag to be a Chaos Wizard.

Just like for Pink Horrors' Locus of Conjuration needs a Horror Hero, except there is nothing that is a Horror Hero except for the fact that the heralds have the Horror and Hero tag

Mozzamanx wrote:
Kairos has a better one IMO, and it isn't based on the wonky Bell trick.


1. Take Kairos and a Great Bray Shaman.
2. The Great Bray knows Savage Dominion. As a friendly wizard within 18", Kairos also knows Savage Dominion.
3. Kairos casts Savage Dominion to summon a Monster. This new Monster is... another Kairos.
4. Kairos rolls anything. He changes a D6 to a 6, and then his Oracle kicks in, meaning he casts a 12 every single time. Automatic success.
5. If you can pronounce 'Noinimod Egavas' then you gain +2 to the roll, making it a 14. It is now impossible to Unbind the spell.
6. This second Kairos now gets to summon. He casts Savage Dominion again, and a third Kairos joins the party.
7. Repeat previous steps until the board is now Kairos, filling up like the world's saddest clown car.

Kairos is a named character so I'd say you can only have 1 on the board at a time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even if its not specifically written somewhere I'd say its fairly self evident. Especially if it opens up shenanigans like this lol.
To the inevitable dude who says 'rules as written' (or not written as is this case) use your common sense if there is a named character then there can only be one.
GW don't tell you not to put their spikey pointy models in your bum do they? All the same I bet it wouldn't take a trip to the emergency room to convince you its a bad idea.

meh i just played my first game and had more fun thatn id had in ages playing WH

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Pael wrote:

 Redbad wrote:
Isn't a Herald a chaos wizard?

No in its description it is not listed, but if you go to the warriors of chaos a lot of their warscrolls are listed as wizards.

Not how the keywords work. You just need to have both the Chaos and the Wizard tag to be a Chaos Wizard.

Just like for Pink Horrors' Locus of Conjuration needs a Horror Hero, except there is nothing that is a Horror Hero except for the fact that the heralds have the Horror and Hero tag

That is exactly what I was checking none of the daemons have wizard in their tag line. I only saw the wizard in the waariors of chas lists. Wizards might be in beastmen as well but I haven't checked that yet.

BAN wrote:

Mozzamanx wrote:
Kairos has a better one IMO, and it isn't based on the wonky Bell trick.


1. Take Kairos and a Great Bray Shaman.
2. The Great Bray knows Savage Dominion. As a friendly wizard within 18", Kairos also knows Savage Dominion.
3. Kairos casts Savage Dominion to summon a Monster. This new Monster is... another Kairos.
4. Kairos rolls anything. He changes a D6 to a 6, and then his Oracle kicks in, meaning he casts a 12 every single time. Automatic success.
5. If you can pronounce 'Noinimod Egavas' then you gain +2 to the roll, making it a 14. It is now impossible to Unbind the spell.
6. This second Kairos now gets to summon. He casts Savage Dominion again, and a third Kairos joins the party.
7. Repeat previous steps until the board is now Kairos, filling up like the world's saddest clown car.

Kairos is a named character so I'd say you can only have 1 on the board at a time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even if its not specifically written somewhere I'd say its fairly self evident. Especially if it opens up shenanigans like this lol.
To the inevitable dude who says 'rules as written' (or not written as is this case) use your common sense if there is a named character then there can only be one.
GW don't tell you not to put their spikey pointy models in your bum do they? All the same I bet it wouldn't take a trip to the emergency room to convince you its a bad idea.

With all of the alternate-dimension world hopping stuff going on now in the fluff, perhaps being able to take duplicates was the intention? If there's nothing in the rules against taking more than one special character, why not?

I'm pretty sure there will never be anything in the official rules limiting someone from taking as many as they want of anything, ever, in Age of Sigmar

(that's not to say it won't become commonplace for players to limit named characters - they were sometimes disallowed entirely by many gaming groups in the previous editions of fantasy)

 Pael wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Pael wrote:

 Redbad wrote:
Isn't a Herald a chaos wizard?

No in its description it is not listed, but if you go to the warriors of chaos a lot of their warscrolls are listed as wizards.

Not how the keywords work. You just need to have both the Chaos and the Wizard tag to be a Chaos Wizard.

Just like for Pink Horrors' Locus of Conjuration needs a Horror Hero, except there is nothing that is a Horror Hero except for the fact that the heralds have the Horror and Hero tag

That is exactly what I was checking none of the daemons have wizard in their tag line. I only saw the wizard in the waariors of chas lists. Wizards might be in beastmen as well but I haven't checked that yet.

Yes daemons do have wizard in their keywords

 Pael wrote:

That is exactly what I was checking none of the daemons have wizard in their tag line. I only saw the wizard in the waariors of chas lists. Wizards might be in beastmen as well but I haven't checked that yet.

Every Tzeentch daemon other than flamers, exalted flamers, burning chariots and screamers has wizard in its keywords.

bitethythumb wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
6/10, would still lose to Fateweaver + Screaming Bell

that has been debunked multiple times, just the fact that some keep on using it shows why people play for fun these days and not silly competitive mindset.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CrownAxe wrote:
After looking through the rules for DoC I realized that Summon Herald of Tzeentch is busted because it is self replicating. A Herald of Tzeentch can just summon another Herald of Tzeentch practically infinity times. Just use Arcane Tome so that "Summon Herald of Tzeentch"'s 5 to cast is on 3d6 giving you a 98% success rate. Then the new Herald just repeats the process. The worst part is when ever you roll a 9+ (which on 3d6 is pretty likely) you get to cast a 2nd time (a different spell mind you) which can be another summon spell like a Disc Herald so that you have another Ancient Tome to summon another Foot Herald for redundancy but can also be Mystic Shield or Arcane Bolt.

So if you take an army that is only a Herald on Foot and a Herald on Disc. With only two models you will be done deploying before any normal list thus guaranteeing you go first and get to fill your deployment zone before any response can be taken. Also as long as your opponent has 3 or more models that lets you pick an alternate win condition so you can just pick Endure and give your two starting models so many mystic shields from your free spells from 9+'s that they can't fail saves and you should be out of range of anything that deals mortal wounds since there is at least 30" of models in the way (or they are just out of LoS because of terrain). Then all of the Heralds get a two shot 18" missile attack and in the following turns can just spam Arcane Bolt.

at the end of the game all your summoned units count as dead... with endure the enemy can just force through and attack the single unit you nominated and win, its not hard in 6 rounds to push through a couple of heralds, and remember that the enemy wizards can also attempt to unbind your spell and there are plenty of other "heroes" and special rules that make it harder for you to do as such an annoying use of powers, remember that you WILL fail a roll at least once and when that happens the other player is free to rule over you... for example, I could take a horde of tomb scorpions and during movement phase I can just summon them all near your nominated Herald and win the game first turn... unless you think your herald can survive an onslaught of infinite tomb scorpions...

but most of all, remember the "MOST IMPORTANT RULE"... talk with your opponent, do not be a dick... sometimes being a dick is still being a dick no matter how legal it is...

Hey, your boss in Nottingham called.......

 Maloghurst wrote:

 Pael wrote:

That is exactly what I was checking none of the daemons have wizard in their tag line. I only saw the wizard in the waariors of chas lists. Wizards might be in beastmen as well but I haven't checked that yet.

Every Tzeentch daemon other than flamers, exalted flamers, burning chariots and screamers has wizard in its keywords.

Egg on my face must have missed that.

Also remember that GW has more or less said that these are 'fun' war scrolls for the 'legacy' product line, but that the new releases going forward will be different. Stormcast Eternals, for example, don't have 'beard rules'.

While these rules are freely available now, the units and models are likely going to be going away as they're replaced with newer (and more copyrightable) models. Orruks won't look like current Fantasy Orks and won't have the same rules, as an example.