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Looking over the new AoS rules and a strange occurrance popped out. It is said on many unit profiles that a model in the unit may be a standard bearer, or may be a musician.

My question is: do these upgrades replace what the unit was equipped with, such as their weaponry, or is it simply an addition?

I am not looking to one-up my opponents here and do not require strict RAW clarification, but more of an insight into how other people see it or have been running it

Now that is a good question.

I need to read some more Warscrolls and see how they tally.

So far we ran it they attack as normal. But the wording suggests they become a new type. For example, the Icon Bearer is talked about like the Alluress for Daemonettes.

It's an interesting one... the way I see it, if the banner/musicianship DIDN'T replace the weapon, then, well, there'd be no reason NOT to take one.

Rather than it being an obvious and mindless unit improvement, I've assumed it's an additional bonus at the sacrifice of a few attacks, but I'd like to see what everyone wonders.

Also, the scrolls say 'models' not 'a model'. Multiple banners and musicians are quite legal.

Some units even have options for multiple TYPES of musicians - Bret peasant units, for example.

Im asking me the same. They talk about models, so you could make half the squad musicians and the other half standardbearers. Okay you also have one champion in there... as you aren't told that you loose your equipment i think you can keep it. Now i ask myself if i could attach a shield on back legally?

I see nothing at all about replacing equipment, especially for hornblowers, which don't even have anything, they just become something. Free command models seems 100% in line with AOS's style, quite frankly.

As far as spamming command dudes goes, you don't get a lot of benefit, but on a case by case basis you might get some kind of increased AOE or something - bloodletter hornblowers mess with enemy battleshock tests within 6", so taking more of them pushes the aura out.

Looking at it, if you have a choice of banners, I guess if you took multiple standard bearers you could take all your options in one unit? Now that does seem a little messed up

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Free command models

Free as opposed to what?

Every single model is free. Worried about losing the weapons? Bring another 40 models. That's more weapons.
If you're making artificial limits (such as counting wounds like me and my friends are trying out) then you're already writing half the rules yourself and might as well write whatever you want for the rest.

Purifier wrote:Free as opposed to what?

Mesothere wrote:It's an interesting one... the way I see it, if the banner/musicianship DIDN'T replace the weapon, then, well, there'd be no reason NOT to take one.

Rather than it being an obvious and mindless unit improvement, I've assumed it's an additional bonus at the sacrifice of a few attacks, but I'd like to see what everyone wonders.

^ The cost of some or all of the bearer's attaks.

- Salvage

The "Description" section tells you what your unit wields. The "Standard Bearer" and "<insert musician type here>" say nothing about removing or changing that. Similarly, the "<insert unit champion here>" also explicitly assumes that they have the equipment that they are given in the "Description" section (because it generally gives them a bonus with it). There is no reason, therefore, to suspect that your standards and musicians lose their gear. It doesn't need to say that they keep it, they were given their gear in the "Description" section already.

That's my take on it at least.

Agreed, they just keep their weapons.

One thing that will cut down on silliness of multiple command is not having the models. On the other hand, I can see a bloodletter unit being really cool if you modeled them with multiple banners from the foes they had killed.

Been playing it that they keep their weapons.

Personally i've assumed that the only reason banners and musicians are an option is to allow for people who don't have enough models with banners/instruments to field the units they want to (i.e. you might have 40 white lions built to be a single unit in 8th but want to field 2 units of 20 in AoS)

So don't think of them as being free upgrades more that people who don't have them in the unit are missing out.

That. My High Elf Archers don't currently have a command group since I've never bothered painting one. That will change.

I also like the fact that you can have multiples. It doesn't seem to affect the game (at least, not for High Elves; their banners affect the unit they're in and units within a range of that unit), but it means you've got more modelling opportunities - Like how Napoleonic regiments often had a National and a Regimental flag. I can see Empire units having something similar, or Bretonnians having a banner for each feudal lord represented in a unit, or multiple warbands of Chaos Warriors all fighting in one huge mob.

Or just field an entire brass band.

Bloodletters have two solid banners; with the models I have, I'll be able to make sure my units have one of each.

From what I see, they simply acquire the instrument/banner. Nothing says they replace their weaponry. I would assume though that having multiples does not stack their effects at all and I'm not seeing any real benefit to bringing multiples.

The only benefit I could think of would be keeping the benefit if one were killed. However, is there even a way to target a banner holder or a horn blower to kill them individually?

Saldiven wrote:
The only benefit I could think of would be keeping the benefit if one were killed. However, is there even a way to target a banner holder or a horn blower to kill them individually?

There doesn't appear to be now, but that could always change in the future. A specific unit might have an ability allowing the attacker to choose which models are removed first.

A good example is charge reactions/overwatch. In general, this is not a thing. However, there is one High Elf unit that has an ability allowing it to make an out of sequence shooting attack whenever an enemy unit successfully charges them.

I'm imagining a future release 'sniper' Hero that has an ability allowing him to pick the model removed when damage is dealt. In that instance, you'd kill the leaders, standard bearers and musicians first.