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Hello, me and a few friends are getting back into the hobby after a long break. One is going to be playing as imperial guard, the other is going to be necrons.

I am still undecided but I am liking the idea of trying out tyranids for a change. I've always been a space marine player in the past.

I was wondering if anyone had any advice regarding a decent all round strategy for going up against these two armies. At this stage no one has bought any models yet but our first game will be very very small and lead up to a 500pt game for starters.

My first thought was that an all out melee army would work well as the other two armies are very gun oriented.

Any pointers?

I've started playing 40k recently, and I started with tyranids, and a friend started with Imperial Guard, we started at 500 and last time we played 750.

At 500 I used 10 hormagaunts and 10 termagants (no ups), 2 brood of zoanthropes of 1 model each (good synapse, warp blast con each and any buff on each is good), 1 carni (2 TDev W/BL), and since a Hive Tyrant was too expensive for 500 I used a Deathleaper for HQ (cheapest) (the "where is it?" rule, making EVERYTHING fire only snap shots at him and stealth help him survive, and the rending claws can make good damage too)

Plus, the AP5 of fleshborers are good against Imperial Guardsmen (armor save 5+)

The only problem was his Lemann Russ, but if you can get the Carnifex close, or the Zoans to use Warp blast (Lance) on it, it goes down easy.

I suppose it's hard to theorize if my enemies don't have any army lists yet. I liked the idea of zoanthropes as I don't particularly like the tyranid gun models, I prefer the look of hormogaunts to termagaunts for example.

But having said that I'm not sure our first few battles are going to field any tanks at all, probably the minimum 1hq and 2 troops so I was thinking maybe pure hormogaunts against guard soldiers /necron warriors but I've been doing some research on 7th edition and it looks like if I do go pure hormogaunts I'll be screwing myself when we expand to higher points values.

I suppose I need to for the foundation of a decent all round force but I'd like to have a heavy enthesis on hand to hand combat. The tyranid models with melee weapons just look so much better.

Yes, so look so much better and destructive with melee weapons...
Then, if you want melee power, you can have the Old One Eye for HQ, if it is your warlord comes with Adaptative Biology (gains FNP after first wound in your next movement phase) and also has regeneration... with some luck it will be hard to put down, but again, it's only melee and har to move it through the map... has a horrible Initiative of 1, but once it can hit, will kill everything.
If you are going hormagaunts, adrenal glands for the +1 S when charging, can bring down a tank too (if they reach it)

But the Synapse it's important, the zoans are a good source of synapse, since they have the 3++ save, comes with warp blast for only 50pts, unless they fire EVERYTHING at him, it's kind of hard to kill.

And as for your enemies using Tanks, don't know necrons, but my friend with IG had a Leman Russ and a Chimera with his HQ command squad at 500 points.
If they have Tanks, Zoans with Warp Blast (Lance) (18") can pierce any. And if they don't use tanks you can use Warp Blast (Burst) (24") 3" blast S5 AP3 to kill the soldiers.

I'd be torn between old one eye and a tervigon as a hq choice, the tervigon's ability to create units is an interesting one even if they are only termagaunts and not hormogaunts.

And the other problem I have is keeping the hormogaunts in synapse range as they will be sprinting across the battlefield faster than most synapse generating units.

Actually, zoanthropes can follow hormagaunts, as the warp blast (in 7th) is used in the Psychic phase, the zoanthropes has nothing to do but run in the shooting phase, despite hormagants have 6" move + D6+3" with reroll to run in shooting phase, zoans have 6" + D6" to follow, and you can always use Dominion to increase synapse on zoan to 18" (if you have 1 or 2 WC to spare)

Beware Necron troop shooting. Even their most basic guys can put wounds on any MC.
If he's bringing Destroyers, nothing's going to get armor saves.
If he's running Decurion, his stuff will be INCREDIBLY hard to kill.
Any easy way to handle it would be to tie everything he has up in combat. No shooting from Necrons = as good as removing them from the table.

So I'm correct in thinking a melee oriented army would be beneficial as I'm realistically not going to be out shooting necrons (or guard for that matter).

The zoanthropes seem a solid choice, the hormogaunts will be a good meat shield for the rest of the bigger units.

The next thing to think about is getting my units to my enemies as quickly as possible. My initial thinking was if I had enough gaunts on the board (and dice Gods depending) I could sprint them straight at the enemy and after casualties still have enough claws to win in combat.

Having said that I haven't played an objective based game for a long time but we will work up to that.

Playing objective will help you make 'em move, not just crouch at the back and shooting.

Remember Hormagaunts have fleet, so they can reroll run and charge dices.

The distance between deployment zones is 24"
Say first turn, your hormas move 6" + a lucky run 6+3" (maybe after a reroll) =15" first turn.
2nd turn another 6" move, and a max of 12" charge (again, you can reroll). To a Max distance of 30" in 2 turns

in avarege (to low), you move 12" in first turn and move 6" and charge 7" in second... 25" is enought if he doesnt' move back or is far beyond top deploy zone

Hormagaunts run at +3". 14" first turn is easy.

They also reroll charges, so a 9" charge is feasible.

By turn 2 their expected threat range is around 28-29" less any casualties from the front.

oh right, forgot that... I'll edit the numbers

I'm thinking old one eye, 2x zoanthropes and 36x hormogaunts (2x 18 gaunt squads with 1 zoanthrope for each).

Old one eye is nearly half my 500 points, tempted to go with a cheaper hq and free up enough points for another zoanthrope and squad of gaunts. Strength in numbers but I would lack anything tanky

I'd honestly go with a Tervigon over Old One Eye.

Give the Tervigon crushing claws, and if you feel it still can't take enough hits, regen (at this points level, you should be fine without it). It's now tankier than Old One Eye, and can still beat up vehicles in close combat.

It's a tough source of synapse, which will come in handy when your zoanthropes get gunned down (they're good, but can't take much of a beating. Once they go down, your hormagaunts start eating each other).

Old One Eye just can't take enough of a beating. Which is sorta dumb, since in the fluff he is supposed to be the ultimate tanky impossible to kill carnifex. He is also very expensive, and slow to reach combat.


Bear in mind that winged hive tyrants are considered head-and-shoulders above all the other tyranid HQ choices for a reason. They are really really good.
They are shooty models, so you may decide they don't fit the theme of your army. But they are the best we've got.

Truth be told I love the look of tervigons, it's just a shame they generate termagaunts and not hormogaunts otherwise I would be sold 100%.

I love the whole generating units thing... It's just the termagaunt models I don't like. The hive tyrants and warriors and carnifixes with guns look o-k. (not as good as the melee ones).

If I'm going to collect tyranids I suppose having termagaunts is going to be un avoidable.

if its a fun game, you can run the deathleaper formation (sneaky attack everyone!)

or if you wanna be that guy
flyrant
flyrant
1 mucolid spore
1 mucolid spore

and watch your friend unfriend you on facebook

bloodangelx12 wrote:
if its a fun game, you can run the deathleaper formation (sneaky attack everyone!)

or if you wanna be that guy
flyrant
flyrant
1 mucolid spore
1 mucolid spore

and watch your friend unfriend you on facebook

For a 500pts game that is so... evil, mean, abusive... I like that...

I definitely don't want to be that guy :p

At 750 points I'll be that guy but not at 500.

Someone decide for me - termagaunts or hormogaunts - which do I mass.

P.s what's the deathleaper formation? I have the digital tyranids codex but it's not easy to navigate

I thought hormagaunts would be nice so much melee attacks... but no... with luck 4 of them can charge in time...

So, I would go with termas, if you have some points to exchange fleshborers for devourer (6" more range and 2 more shots each, but doubles the cost, maybe get 5 with flesh on front and 5 with devourers behind them (since they have more range and would be removed last)

And about the deathleaper... don't know... if you want to run him as HQ, it's just an HQ, but he may be talking about the Formation "Deathleaper's assassin brood" it's a Deathleaper and 5 Lictors

This is pretty coincidental, I've been playing guard for a couple years and my buddy I play with often plays crons and nids so I have pretty good experience playing both.

So deciding on horms or terms it comes down to if you want to be more fun or more competitive. Horms will be decent in the beginning and terms will be much more competitive even later on.

This goes for shooty nids vs close combat nids. Shooty nids will usually be more competitive vs close combat nids. My buddy usually ran close combat nids but once 6th hit he's been running shooty. This is mainly because once he lost drop pods I would gun his synapse down and once it was gone the rest of his line would crumble and fall apart.

My buddy also never ran the flyrant before because he loved foot tyrants with tyrant guards or swarmlord but now he always runs flyrants because it's so easy for guard to kill key synapse creatures.

So here's some info on guard:

Your dreaded enemy=wyvern. It will mulch any infantry unit you have in one shooting turn. If you don't have all your stuff spaced out to the maximum 2 inches it will stack wounds like crazy.

Russes are extremely hard to kill with shooting from any weapons. Only lance them from warp blast or don't shoot them.

Mech lists spam x3 plasma or x3 melts vets in chimeras. If you assault the chimera and blow it up the veteran squads have enough fire power to just about kill any monstrous creature I return. When I get a chance to explain blobs I will get to that next!

Thank you for the advice.

what are your thoughts on mawlocs? Not for a 500pt game I know but thinking for the future the rules look very interesting and would solve the problem of getting into close combat quickly.

Mawlocs work well against Necrons, they would be relying on a 4+ FnP for a save (except Lychguard with Shields so don't try and munch them).

If you have multiple Mawlocs, invest in a couple of Lictors so you've got direct Mawlocs.

I love the mawloc rules, but a trygon gives me deep strike options for hormogaunts. I might play with magnetization, never done it before but looks like a good option (if it works)

Karnus wrote:
I love the mawloc rules, but a trygon gives me deep strike options for hormogaunts. I might play with magnetization, never done it before but looks like a good option (if it works)

I wouldn't bank on the Trygon's hole ability. The only time I ever pulled it off was when I got the Reroll Reserves warlord trait and got lucky.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Karnus wrote:
I love the mawloc rules, but a trygon gives me deep strike options for hormogaunts. I might play with magnetization, never done it before but looks like a good option (if it works)

I wouldn't bank on the Trygon's hole ability. The only time I ever pulled it off was when I got the Reroll Reserves warlord trait and got lucky.

It happened worse to me, The termagants with devourer entered from reserves on turn 2 but the trygon did on turn 3.

Plus, hormagaunts can't charge the turn they enter from a trygon tunnel, so they will be better running through the map and jumping on objectives.

I say try to overwhelm with numbers especially against the necrons since pretty much everything in their codex is pretty buff. I don't know much about nids ( I'm a marine player) so that is kind of just general advice.

At 500 I'm torn between two lists

Old one eye
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Hormogaunts x18
Hormogaunts x18

Or

Tervigon
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Termagaunts x20 (5 devourers)
Termagaunts x20 (5 devourers)

Something along these two lines, I'm liking behemoth colours and I prefer the look of melee but I feel shooty will bring me more victories. Bare in mind I need a general all round force to face IG and necrons :s

How is that tervigon equiped?

I'd give hime Electroshock Grubs and Crushing claws.

That'll destroy any vehicle they would bring, plus EG are template S5 AP5 (can get imperial guardsmen since they have 5+ sv)

Against necrons... your troop units won't have much to do but fire A LOT and pray they fail their 4+ o 3+ Sv, AND that annoying RP.

If your Tervigon reach melee combat will probably eat some up, pray yo get Catalyst power (FNP to the Psyker unit and target friendly tyranid unit) to get more survivability:
-If you get it with Tervigon give a unit of termagants FNP so both will have it.
-If one of the zoans gets it, give FNP to the Tervigon.
-If you get 2 psykers with Catalyst, always try to have your tervigon with FNP and a unit of termagants.

Also, against necrons, your best shot is using your zoanthropes (BS4) to manifest Warp Blast (Burst), S5 AP3 blast will most of the time hit where you want. This against troops, if the HQ is the problem, you should try to manifest Warp Blast (Lance) S10 would be ID against most of their HQ (T4 or T5) and making the reanimation protocol save 1 points worse, and as it's ID

And if you want your tervigon to never die, try giving him regeneration and rolling on personal Warlord Traits from BRB and get 6th (gives It Will Not Die) since it's a CAD you can reroll the Warlord Trait, that means you can regain 2 wounds per turn, and being a Tervigon W6 it's quite difficult they bring him down in 1 turn. Also, same table if you roll 5 it gives FNP.

I personally give my Tervigon the Miasma Cannon and E Grubs. Long range Poison 2+ AP4 for those pesky Necron warriors.

Wallur wrote:
How is that tervigon equiped?

I'd give hime Electroshock Grubs and Crushing claws.

That'll destroy any vehicle they would bring, plus EG are template S5 AP5 (can get imperial guardsmen since they have 5+ sv)

Against necrons... your troop units won't have much to do but fire A LOT and pray they fail their 4+ o 3+ Sv, AND that annoying RP.

If your Tervigon reach melee combat will probably eat some up, pray yo get Catalyst power (FNP to the Psyker unit and target friendly tyranid unit) to get more survivability:
-If you get it with Tervigon give a unit of termagants FNP so both will have it.
-If one of the zoans gets it, give FNP to the Tervigon.
-If you get 2 psykers with Catalyst, always try to have your tervigon with FNP and a unit of termagants.

Also, against necrons, your best shot is using your zoanthropes (BS4) to manifest Warp Blast (Burst), S5 AP3 blast will most of the time hit where you want. This against troops, if the HQ is the problem, you should try to manifest Warp Blast (Lance) S10 would be ID against most of their HQ (T4 or T5) and making the reanimation protocol save 1 points worse, and as it's ID

And if you want your tervigon to never die, try giving him regeneration and rolling on personal Warlord Traits from BRB and get 6th (gives It Will Not Die) since it's a CAD you can reroll the Warlord Trait, that means you can regain 2 wounds per turn, and being a Tervigon W6 it's quite difficult they bring him down in 1 turn. Also, same table if you roll 5 it gives FNP.

Tervigons aren't characters so don't get to roll for a Warlord Trait.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Tervigons aren't characters so don't get to roll for a Warlord Trait.

I always forgot that... ty