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I haven't been able to go through all of the scrolls, and without point values it is a little more time intensive to figure out the intended power level of each unit.


So, if you saw only one mini across the table from you, what would be the scariest one? Nagash? A Bloodthirster? Karl Franz?

Nagash, just for his ability to basically summon an army. Casting three spells a turn and unbinding three a turn! Ouch! Plus, he ignores mortal wounds and he is no slouch in combat himself. Finally, he points his sword at you and you take mortal wounds and he gets wounds back. Not too shabby!

Maybe the next most feared would be a Vampire Lord on a Zombie Dragon. "Oh, I lost a wound? Bah-wing! I get d6 back!" or "I pestilence breath you. Do you have more than 6 models left? Then take d6 wounds." Or my favorite "I'm kinda lonely around here. I know! I'll summon another Zombie Dragon! Kra-COW!"

Nagash ignores mortal wounds, but not normal wounds. Makes him very vulnerable to war machines, especially the type that hit from out of Line of Sight.

So what do you think is the big badass, Rihgu?

Fateweaver is pretty crazy. They seem to have forgotten he is supposed to suck in combat, and he can summon other badasses as well. with one chosen result.. pretty rough

Choose 13!

 odinsgrandson wrote:
So what do you think is the big badass, Rihgu?

Probably would still go with Nagash. Basically 50% chance to delete a model (yes, even that 12 wound monster!) a turn on top of all of his other abilities and combat damage... he's too stronk 4 me!

Kroak's also pretty badass. Four spells a turn including a decent nova and something that really doesn't care where you are, a powerful survival mechanic where you basically need to wound him seven times in a single turn to even have an even chance to kill him, the ability to gain re-rolls every Lizzie turn, and for some reason he went from possibly the worst combatant in the game to one of the best!

Ripperdactyls from the skink formation. They land from off the table 3" away from the enemy and can still charge. With the bloat toad and diving out of the clouds, they get 3 attacks each, reolls to hit, with every hit giving you another attack. Then they get +1 to wound, also with rerolls, and a handful of skink attacks. 32 wounds isn't out of the realm of very possible.

Nagash just seems like a death dealing machine, maybe even worthy of the title deadliest warrior, although honourable mention to the WE BSB, that 4+ ignore wounds and mortal wounds aura, WE tankiest army 2015.

 Krellnus wrote:
Nagash just seems like a death dealing machine, maybe even worthy of the title deadliest warrior, although honourable mention to the WE BSB, that 4+ ignore wounds and mortal wounds aura, WE tankiest army 2015.

That banner only works on Wanderers, not the whole list. The elves get the save, the trees and eagles don't.

-Matt

Bonerippers warpfire projector is fairly hardcore. Choose enemy unit within 8", roll 2d6. Thats the number of mortal wounds caused. Also it dosent degrade as he himself takes wounds plus he moves 10" so hes going to get close fast. And you can lash it into and out of combat as per the main rules. Ouch.

 Tamwulf wrote:
Nagash, just for his ability to basically summon an army. Casting three spells a turn and unbinding three a turn! Ouch! Plus, he ignores mortal wounds and he is no slouch in combat himself. Finally, he points his sword at you and you take mortal wounds and he gets wounds back. Not too shabby!

Maybe the next most feared would be a Vampire Lord on a Zombie Dragon. "Oh, I lost a wound? Bah-wing! I get d6 back!" or "I pestilence breath you. Do you have more than 6 models left? Then take d6 wounds." Or my favorite "I'm kinda lonely around here. I know! I'll summon another Zombie Dragon! Kra-COW!"

If i have read it correctly, Nagash can cast at least 3 spells, plus a possible 5 more depending on wounds, and yes he is completely badass!!

After reading a bit more on the summoning rules, I'm beginning to be convinced that the biggest badass around is the Lord of Change.

Why? Because he can very reliably summon two more Lords of Change, who, in turn, may each summon two more Lords of Change.

(the summoning difficulty is 9, but LoC can ad +1 to his roll, and make the lower number match the higher one- so roll 2 dice and if either is a 4+, you have another greater daemon in your force).

Aside from summoning(assuming its banned or severely restricted). What armies do ya'll considered top tier? I think Nagash makes Vamps automatic top tier.

Well, if we ban the summoning rules, that make Nagash a decent ways less helpful, but he's still pretty strong, and the vampire on the undead dragon is pretty great as well. So Death is powerful.

Chaos probably still has the widest selection of badasses around, as well as access to strong elite troops- so even without summoning, they're likely to field a powerful force that can win via Sudden Death.

Neither of those have good ranged combat, however. For that, you'll be looking towards Order (empire and dwarfs) or destruction (Orcs and goblins have some great artillery).

And ranged combat has definitely gotten better in this edition (unless, of course, we decide to ban most of the cool things it does as well).

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Aside from summoning(assuming its banned or severely restricted). What armies do ya'll considered top tier? I think Nagash makes Vamps automatic top tier.

Umm, and Tomb Kings.

I've been reading both Orks and Lizzies today. Both have a nice mix of fast, hard hitting units backed up with some very nice toys (goblin artillary for orks, larger creatures for lizzies).
The lizzies flyers (terradons and ripadons ) are also very darn nice.
Both have decent characters too and access to some half decent shooting. Havent got around to the rest of the books yet.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Aside from summoning(assuming its banned or severely restricted). What armies do ya'll considered top tier? I think Nagash makes Vamps automatic top tier.

Umm, and Tomb Kings.

Well, they're all Death these days.

 odinsgrandson wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Aside from summoning(assuming its banned or severely restricted). What armies do ya'll considered top tier? I think Nagash makes Vamps automatic top tier.

Umm, and Tomb Kings.

Well, they're all Death these days.

Thank god...err...I mean, Thank Nagash.

The crazy thing about Nagash is that he has a 3+ armor, which can become a 2+ with the rulebook spell and his command ability lets him reroll failed saves of 1. He has a 2+ rerollable against anything non rending and a 3+ reroll of 1s against -1 rending and 4+ reroll 1s against -2 rending. he just seems really annoying to have to kill. Plus starting out he can cast/unbind 8 spells per turn getting +3 to both results.

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:
The crazy thing about Nagash is that he has a 3+ armor, which can become a 2+ with the rulebook spell and his command ability lets him reroll failed saves of 1. He has a 2+ rerollable against anything non rending and a 3+ reroll of 1s against -1 rending and 4+ reroll 1s against -2 rending. he just seems really annoying to have to kill. Plus starting out he can cast/unbind 8 spells per turn getting +3 to both results.

Yeah, plus defense against mortal wounds, and the ability to potentially heal wounds, he seems really annoying to put down.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:
The crazy thing about Nagash is that he has a 3+ armor, which can become a 2+ with the rulebook spell and his command ability lets him reroll failed saves of 1. He has a 2+ rerollable against anything non rending and a 3+ reroll of 1s against -1 rending and 4+ reroll 1s against -2 rending. he just seems really annoying to have to kill. Plus starting out he can cast/unbind 8 spells per turn getting +3 to both results.

Yeah, plus defense against mortal wounds, and the ability to potentially heal wounds, he seems really annoying to put down.

Agreed. Plus he summons double the amount of models as normal at +3 and if you roll a 10 or higher (pretty good odds at +3 to cast) then it doubles again. So one a roll of a 10+ you summon 40 zombies (and due to their numbers bonus they hit and wound on a 3+). I actually play Vampire counts and probably wont bring him unless someone requests to fight him

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:
The crazy thing about Nagash is that he has a 3+ armor, which can become a 2+ with the rulebook spell and his command ability lets him reroll failed saves of 1. He has a 2+ rerollable against anything non rending and a 3+ reroll of 1s against -1 rending and 4+ reroll 1s against -2 rending. he just seems really annoying to have to kill. Plus starting out he can cast/unbind 8 spells per turn getting +3 to both results.

Yeah, plus defense against mortal wounds, and the ability to potentially heal wounds, he seems really annoying to put down.

Agreed. Plus he summons double the amount of models as normal at +3 and if you roll a 10 or higher (pretty good odds at +3 to cast) then it doubles again. So one a roll of a 10+ you summon 40 zombies (and due to their numbers bonus they hit and wound on a 3+). I actually play Vampire counts and probably wont bring him unless someone requests to fight him

Yeah, same here with my Tomb Kings. He just doesn't seem playable at this point in time.

OK Stonehorn did pretty good in one of my practice games, he's got SO MANY ATTACKS UGH. They're all mortal wounds, and can even get a T1 charge if he tries.

Hmm... currently, the prize looks like it is going to Nagash (unless you want an infinitely replicating list).

I think that technically, Nagash is more defeatable than the horde of Lords of Change (simply because you have to table the LoCs in one round, while with Nagash, you can work on him for several rounds).

So here's another question- if you disallow summoning all together (yeah, I could see that happening a lot) is fielding a single Nagash still superpowered, or would the prize go to someone else?

 odinsgrandson wrote:
So here's another question- if you disallow summoning all together (yeah, I could see that happening a lot) is fielding a single Nagash still superpowered, or would the prize go to someone else?

The dude's not a wimp in any sense, and can still chunk out arcane bolts and +1 saves by the handful. 6x D3 mortal wounds hurts! Actually screw that, spam soul stealer for greater victory (against the right targets).

- Salvage

How about Lord Skreech Verminking?

Dreaded 13th...kill at least 1 model = 1 additional Verminking

Those ones then cast Dreaded 13th... and the cycle continues forever!!

(Not realistic...yet allowed)

i dont get why everyone is being such a weiner about summoning. stopping spells from getting off isnt that difficult. if your opponent is going to spam summons, then you can counter deploy wizards. 18" is a pretty gracious bubble to counter and isnt that hard to get in range.

granted, fateweaver is impossible to stop. LoC is pretty tough too. but i think its manageable.

raoiley wrote:
i dont get why everyone is being such a weiner about summoning. stopping spells from getting off isnt that difficult. if your opponent is going to spam summons, then you can counter deploy wizards. 18" is a pretty gracious bubble to counter and isnt that hard to get in range.

Ban summoning in the first turn? Let's enemy wizards have a chance to stop it.

Also, why should I be required to bring a model capable of countering magic? Isn't that yet another thing people hated about 7E & 8E?

- Salvage