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I enjoy the Months of Shame story, it is a tale of morally grey story, with both sides in the right and wrong, fighting for what they believe. One of the few stories I feel was done very well in that regard.

On that note, I was wondering what dakka's concsesus was on which side you think is in the right.

The Inquisition / grey knights

Or the space wolves?

The wolves were clearly in the wrong in terms of the big picture. All it takes is a single corrupt human to bring down a planet, and corruption is extremely insidious and invasive.

Plus, it is not as if the Wolves would be taking responsibility for those they let slip away, had they got their way.

The Inquisition are arseholes, yes. It's their jobs to be. They are the ones required to make the tough decisions, to decide who lives and who dies, whether a world is worth the investment of millions of Imperial lives, or if Exterminatus is the proper course of action. It is they who face horrors that would shatter the minds, souls and bodies of lesser humans. It is they who have to study the myriad threats that face the Imperium, not only so they can combat these threats in the literal sense, but so they can detect them before they get out of hand, and bring the appropriate tools to bear to excise them, much as one would rather excise a cancerous growth before the entire limb must be cut away.

Armageddon? The Inquisition's response was the only appropriate response. The Space Wolves only made it worse.

Personally, I think that the Inquisition should have just mindwiped everyone and been done with it. Committing genocide is quite simply a waste of resources, not to mention morally wrong in every sense of the word.

 dusara217 wrote:
Personally, I think that the Inquisition should have just mindwiped everyone and been done with it. Committing genocide is quite simply a waste of resources, not to mention morally wrong in every sense of the word.

Yes. Because it is so not a waste of resources to send several million expendable guardsmen through a costly and expensive mindwipe process.

Oh wait. It is an even bigger waste.

Sorry, but Guardsmen are the most expendable resource in the Imperium.

Second most expendable, Curran - there are civilians hanging around somewhere.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Second most expendable, Curran - there are civilians hanging around somewhere.

Point taken. The Guardsmen ARE carrying around slightly useful lasguns.

I think, had the Wolves made assurances to seek out and eliminate any Chaos taint on a case-by-case basis, taking on the responsibility of carefully going through each transport and encampment, and protecting any nearby systems from becoming contaminated, they would have been in the right.

As it stands, though, their attitude of "Do nothing and let everyone go, even if it means yet another repeat of the Armageddon Wars" was nearsighted and foolish. The Inquisition had every right to punish them for endangering the Imperium, although I think Exterminatus against all those secondary worlds was a bit of prideful overkill on the part of Kysnaros.

The Inquisition was in the right. Chaos corruption is a powerful thing.

Wow. The polls are tied o.0

 dusara217 wrote:
Personally, I think that the Inquisition should have just mindwiped everyone and been done with it. Committing genocide is quite simply a waste of resources, not to mention morally wrong in every sense of the word.

but if you mind-wipe people it is genocide. That's the very definition, like the original definition of genocide. Actually all of the plans were genocide.

The term genocide was coined in 1944, and it was defined in a way that would include what you describe. If you want to use the term genocide, it has to mean this:


Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.


If you mean mass murder, then you have to say mass murder.

I feel the scenario was created so that no side could ever be completely in the right.
My heart is with the Wolves, because wiping out generations of people will never sit easy, but I can absolutely understand the method used by the Inquisition.

The wolves are the do the opposite mob.
If the Inq had of told them to guide the civvies out of the system, they would have slaughtered them all, because possibly tainted.

 curran12 wrote:

Sorry, but PEOPLE are the most expendable resource in the Imperium.

Fixed that for you.

Yes, side with the dogs...err Wolves. I am sure that no taint of the Glorious.... err hated Chaos remained. Of course, they had to be punished. Can't have anyone question the Inquisition. Not like the infighting makes Khorne happy, with all that Imperial blood being shed. Blood for the Blood God!. *Cough* What was that?

But really, I voted for Inquistion, as there is no such thing as too careful with the realm of Chaos.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
I feel the scenario was created so that no side could ever be completely in the right.
My heart is with the Wolves, because wiping out generations of people will never sit easy, but I can absolutely understand the method used by the Inquisition.

I think everyne in their heart wishes the space wovles where right, but praticaly speaking knows the inqusition proably knew what they where doing

If the SW were right, then the setting falls apart. It ceases to be grimdark and, worse, it completely defangs Chaos as the "insidious threat, a cancer eating at the Imperium from within" that it's always been.

 Psienesis wrote:
If the SW were right, then the setting falls apart. It ceases to be grimdark and, worse, it completely defangs Chaos as the "insidious threat, a cancer eating at the Imperium from within" that it's always been.

But that's just it. Its a grimdark setting, that doesn't mean everything in it is grimdark.

Its grimdark because herorics like this likely lead to more harm than good. Its grimdark because lights are being snuffed out all the time. Its grimdark because the inquisitions REGULAR action is what they did.

Its grimdark because actions like the wolves are rare, and seen as more harmful than good. Its grimdark because people believe they now have to become monsters, to protect themselves from monsters.

The wolves were, ethically right. Its the same today of saying that in Atlanta there was a new disease outbreak, it kills and spreads at alarming rates, the government bombs it to kill everyone and the disease, then take anyone POTENTIALLY. CONTAMINATED And offing them or putting them in quartine for life.

The setting is grimdark because acts like the wolves did are rare.

This story is a pure example of the setting, more so than almost any other I have read, and the wolves are ethically/morally right. especially by our standards today.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
I feel the scenario was created so that no side could ever be completely in the right.
My heart is with the Wolves, because wiping out generations of people will never sit easy, but I can absolutely understand the method used by the Inquisition.

I think everyne in their heart wishes the space wovles where right, but praticaly speaking knows the inqusition proably knew what they where doing

Aye, I did say completely... There's no doubt less cost and time effective methods the inquisition could have used, but likewise I'm looking at this with a 2015 brain.

"Some may question your right to destroy ten billion people. Those who understand know that you have no right to let them live."

Definitely on the Inquisition's side in my case, as far as altruism goes, it serves very little purpose in the grand scheme of the Imperium's fight to survive. If Angron's invasion and mere presence was able to turn half of Armaggedon's PDF forces over to chaos, it shows how traumatic and corrupting having mere contact with them was like. Given how insidious chaos can be those exposed can just be ticking time bombs waiting to be released. Better to let them die than cause others greater harm.

 Grimskul wrote:
Definitely on the Inquisition's side in my case, as far as altruism goes, it serves very little purpose in the grand scheme of the Imperium's fight to survive. If Angron's invasion and mere presence was able to turn half of Armaggedon's PDF forces over to chaos, it shows how traumatic and corrupting having mere contact with them was like. Given how insidious chaos can be those exposed can just be ticking time bombs waiting to be released. Better to let them die than cause others greater harm.

indeed heck it's worth noting that in the emperor's gift, Hyperion while psyicly peeping on the people, sees a guy so tramuatized he begins drawing the sigils. we literally see someone just being corrupted

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
There's no doubt less cost and time effective methods the inquisition could have used, but likewise I'm looking at this with a 2015 brain.

And what methods might those be, exactly?

And before you pick one to defend, realize that if you miss one case, if exactly one corrupted person in the millions who had to be purged, you are likely dooming at least another world, if not several more. If you don't choose a method that has a 100% guarantee, you are ensuring that this situation keeps going on and that the losses and Chaos incursions continue to rise.

And as far as costs, okay. The entire Imperium is in a state of constant war. Please identify a source of resources, both in terms of a place to keep, feed and house these people as well as manpower to keep them in line that can spare enough to watch millions of people. Millions of people, I will add, that are all potential vectors for Chaos incursion. By sparing those people, you have created a ticking time bomb (or bombs if you decide to spread these unfortunates out) that can easily knock out a world or system. Who is going to volunteer to sit on them to see if they go off or not? Or, to put it another way, who are you going to have watching a potential enemy while dozens of actual enemies are already at the doorstep?

And as an aside for mindwiping, you realize that it is an extensive process, right? It is no easy quick Men in Black flashy thing. Do you think you can efficiently and usefully process millions of people, any of whom (just to repeat myself) can go corrupt while waiting for that achingly slow process to happen?

Please, let's see what you can offer to fix it.

yup, fact is killing all the people IS the cheapest most expediant solution.

What GW or Black Library should have done was showed that the taint of Chaos really DID spread thanks what happened with civilians and others escaping the Inquisition at Armegeddon. As far as I know, to my knowledge, they never said whether it did or not so we can only speculate on the results, right?

My memory could be wrong.

And ladies and gentlemen, that's why it's grimdark

TiamatRoar wrote:What GW or Black Library should have done was showed that the taint of Chaos really DID spread thanks what happened with civilians and others escaping the Inquisition at Armegeddon. As far as I know, to my knowledge, they never said whether it did or not so we can only speculate on the results, right?

My memory could be wrong.

BrianDavion wrote:indeed heck it's worth noting that in the emperor's gift, Hyperion while psyicly peeping on the people, sees a guy so tramuatized he begins drawing the sigils. we literally see someone just being corrupted

 Furyou Miko wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:What GW or Black Library should have done was showed that the taint of Chaos really DID spread thanks what happened with civilians and others escaping the Inquisition at Armegeddon. As far as I know, to my knowledge, they never said whether it did or not so we can only speculate on the results, right?

My memory could be wrong.

BrianDavion wrote:indeed heck it's worth noting that in the emperor's gift, Hyperion while psyicly peeping on the people, sees a guy so tramuatized he begins drawing the sigils. we literally see someone just being corrupted

Ah, thanks! My eyes skipped that post for some reason.

that said we never see if any of the soldiers who left WORLD where trainted.
and I prefer it that way. the book worked better with us not knowing for sure who was REALLY right it was easily the most morally ambigious story I've read for 40k... which is proably why it numbers one of my favorites

If you're not siding with the Inquisition in this you're either not fully understanding the situation or trying to push real world morals into your view point. The Inquisition has no such luxury.

At what point is it right to become a monster to beat a monster. That's the question here.

The point is to put this into our morale views.