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2015/07/11 08:27:56
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT 2015 (Game #5 Completed on p.4)
So what made me decide to bring the list that I brought? It' not a balanced list and it isn't great in the Maelstrom Secondary objectives. Why did I decide to go with a more extreme build rather than a more Take-All-Comer's Tyranid army? There are a number of reasons for this.
More Offense: Rather than go with support units, I decided to go with more pure offense. With Space Marines, Eldar and a lot of the current builds, the meta has shifted back to MSU, especially in the ITC format. You need to be able to kill a lot of units in 1 turn. Flyrants are great for this. However, lictors and the malanthrope are less suited to deal with these types of armies, especially when they are going up against ObSec MSU. Thus, I wanted almost every unit in the army able to contribute to the Tyranid War Machine.
Ignore Cover Offense: Not only did I want more offense, but I wanted more offense with the ability to ignore cover. Ravenwing, Shrouded armies like Nurgle or other Tyranids and deathstars are all but impossible to kill by conventional Tyranid offense. Against such army builds, you need the ability to ignore their cover. Hence, why I am running more mawlocs. Not only do they provide offense, but they are also the only unit in the codex that provides AP2 offense that ignores cover (not counting psychic powers).
Anti-meta: The units that I expect to see a lot of - MSU Space Marines a la the Battle Company, Eldar Scatterbikes, White Scars/Ravenwing bikers and any infantry-heavy army - my list will excel in dealing with. My army also deals with enemy flyers very well (other than the units listed below). On the other hand, with the Denial nature of my army, a lot of armies will have trouble against my army. There are a few problematic builds, but overall, I think my list makes for a very good anti-meta list.
Denial Strategy: This list is designed to deny the opponent any real or good targets. Flyrants will be in the air against most armies and will be reserved against hard-hitting alpha-strike armies. Mawlocs will be in Reserves. Basically, the only units for my opponents to kill initially are units that don't count for any type of victory conditions. Basically, I want my opponent to waste his resources on my non-important units, while I am guaranteed to almost always get the alpha-strike against my opponent instead.
Null Deployment: Against very dangerous alpha-strike armies - drop pods, teleporting centurions, Eldar scatterbikes, Tau, etc. - my list actually has decent Null Deployment resiliency. Against such lists where I am forced to reserve my flyrants, I can actually survive most alpha-strikes. 5 mucolids will give me 2+ cover in ruins. Then I've got spore mines that I can easily hide out of Line-of-Sight from most units. That actually makes for a very sturdy base to ensure that I don't get tabled before Turn 2 when my reserves come in. Best of all, it's only 90-pts of units so that you can reserve 1760-pts of your army. And if I should feel the need to ensure my survival, I could sacrifice a mawloc by deploying him to draw fire away from my mucolids/spores. Worst case scenario, I'd rather lose 1 mawloc than maybe a couple of flyrants if I am going up against a strong alpha-strike army who is going first.
Better Resiliency: Lictors and the Malanthrope can be killed by assault or cover-ignoring shooting. And while mawlocs are just as vulnerable to assault or shooting, being a T6 monstrous creature with 6 wounds, they can be a lot more resilient as well, especially in cover or when buffed by Catalyst. They also have a slight advantage over other Tyranid units in that they can escape prey (i.e. dangerous assault units) by burrowing into the ground or use Hit-&-Run to get out of tarpit situations (although lictors can also hit-&-run out of combat, they are also much less likely to survive than mawlocs to hit-&-run out of combat).
Now all of this offense comes with certain drawbacks as well. I am fully aware of my drawbacks and will have to overcome them with strategy and hopefully, a little luck:
Weak with Maelstrom Objectives: Due to the lack of scoring or ground units, it will be hard for me to grab Maelstrom objectives that are not of the kill-a-unit variety. Other than hoping I roll those kill objectives, I am just going to have to blast my opponent's units off of their Maelstrom objectives. Against armies that are too good in Maelstrom objectives (Battle Company Space Marines, fast Eldar, summoned Daemons, Decurion Necrons), I may just concede the Secondary and try to win via the Primary mission and Tertiary bonus points.
No Ability to Control Reserves: I just didn't have the points to bring in a fortification to help with my reserves, at least not without giving up on some of my offense. Other than getting the right Strategic Warlord trait, I just need to roll at least average on my Reserve rolls. If I can do that, then it won't be so bad.
Problems against Flyers and Super-Tough Units: Units like the wraithknight and even riptides will give my list problems. I just can't kill them efficiently enough. Also, AV12 flyers (stormravens, fire raptors) or flying monstrous creatures with Shroud (Be'lakor, Nurgle princes) will give me problems as well. These units take up a lot of my shooting and my mawlocs cannot affect them. In most cases, my strategy will be to just ignore these units unless I have no better targets.
Weak Ground Game: Armies with a super-resilient ground force will give my army problems. The Green Tide, the Seer Council, Daemon-summoning armies, Battle Company Space Marines, Decurion Necrons, mobile deathstar armies, multiple Astra Militarum blob-squads - all of these armies have the potential to give my army problems, especially if they have the resiliency to survive my shooting and mawlocs.
No I didn't. I played against 5 Imperial Knights, scatterbike Eldar, Battle Company, Daemonkin and PJ's Daemons. Would have loved to play against iNcontrol's War Convocation or the French Overlord's Drop Pod Skitarii, but that didn't happen this time.
Ok, now for some eye candy, the army pics.
If you recognize any of the armies here, feel free to give them a shout-out.
CHAOS:
Spoiler:
Daemonkin out in full force. They were probably the most common of the Chaos armies.
Peter Kelley's of the Mercykillers and his Daemons. Peter is currently the top-ranked Daemon player in the ITC.
My Game #5 opponent - Daemonkin.
ELDAR/DARK ELDAR:
Spoiler:
The Seer Council and scatterbikes.
More scatterbikes!
Here's a nasty list by Julio, currently #2 on the ITC rankings: Eldar + centurions + Daemon summoning.
Brett "Tomb King" Perkins and his Eldau army (Eldar + Tau Firebase Cadre). Brett was playing against Pajamapants for the top spot in the end but just barely lost. Overall, Brett finished the tournament in 7th place.
My Game #2 opponent. Man, could his army shoot!
IMPERIAL KNIGHTS/ADMECH:
Spoiler:
Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson and his Cult Mechanicus/Skitarii/Imperial Knight War Convocation. Most of you know him as an awesome Tyranid player. This time, he brought admech and finished 5-0 and 2nd Best Overall at the BAO!
Ben of the Mercy Killers and his Imperial Knight army. Ben was my Game #1 opponent.
Imperial Knights with centurions and a Culexus....what a deadly combination!
More Knights and centurions.
Very nice Nurgle-themed Imperial Knight army from Alan of team nWo.
Very nicely done IK/Admech army by Shane from Apocalypse Gaming.
IMPERIALS:
Spoiler:
Battle Company (or perhaps Demi-Company) Space Marines. They were everywhere!
Sean "Abusepuppy" Morgan and his Battle Company Space Marines with Eldar allies. Sean was my Game #3 opponent.
The dreaded Centstar!
Blood Angels spotted!
John's Ravenwing Dark Angels. John was the Best Dark Angels player last year in the ITC. He also finished the BAO as the Best Dark Angels player once again.
Space Wolves!
Bill and his Thunderwolves. Bill finished as the Best Space Wolf player.
Very nicely converted Grey Knights army.
NECRONS:
Spoiler:
Alex and his Necrons. Alex is currently the top ranked player in the ITC as well as the top ranked Necron player.
ORKS:
Spoiler:
Mike Fox and his awesomely converted/painted orks. Mike's orks won Best Painted.
TAU:
Spoiler:
Paul McKelvey's Tau. Paul was the Best Overall Player in the ITC last year as well as the Best Tau player. Currently, he is ranked #5 on ITC leaderboard.
Israel, a member of the Left Coast Corsairs (in this tournament) and painter for Frontline Gaming, is always at the very top in Best Painted/Appearance. This year, he lost out to Mike Fox for Best Painted, but Israel did win the award for Best Renaissance Man, which is awarded to the player with the most Battle Points + Painting Score combined. By the ways, not only is Israel an awesome modeler/painter, but he is a really good Tau general as well. Israel was one of 4 people to complete the tournament 5-0 and finished 3rd Overall.
Spam Adams of Team Zero Comp and his very nicely painted Tau. Adam was the Best Tau player at the BAO last year.
TYRANIDS:
Spoiler:
Hive Fleet Pandora!
John, the 2nd Top Tyranid player in the ITC currently, and his Skyblight Tyranids.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/07/16 14:54:43
I appreciate the picture breakdown of armies you usually have from a tournament. This is one the best features anyone has ever done in a battle report.
2015/07/16 11:17:18
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT
2nd edition: Blood Angels
3rd edition: Imperial Guard
4th edition: Iron Warriors
5th edition: Death Guard
6th & 7th edition: taking a break - power creeep (lethality of game) became too hot to handle
2015/07/16 14:34:59
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT
DarthDiggler wrote: I appreciate the picture breakdown of armies you usually have from a tournament. This is one the best features anyone has ever done in a battle report.
Thanks guys.
I've always found it interesting to know who is running what armies, and I thought some of my readers might find it interesting as well. It also shows to a degree the trend that is the current meta, at least in the West Coast. I think that is fascinating as well. Glad you guys enjoyed it.
1. Hold Maelstrom Objective 1.
2. Hold Maelstrom Objective 2.
3. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
4. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
5. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
6. Have at least 3 of your and none of your opponent's scoring units in your deployment zone.
Tertiary Objectives: Big Game Hunter, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each
Deployment: Dawn of War
1st Turn: Imperial Knights
Note: We actually played the wrong mission, but the result was just the same nevertheless.
This is going to be a bad matchup for my opponent. Unless he gets a Skyfire objective, he really doesn't have anything that can deal with my flyrants. Meanwhile I can position my flyrants in his various flanks to reduce the effectiveness of his Ion Shields. Also, in the ITC format, for every 3 Hull Points you lose on a Super-heavy tank, the opponent gets +1 bonus Maelstrom point. Thus, right off the bat, I can get a potential +9 Maelstrom VP's just by taking out hull points from his knights (+10VP's would be moot because that would mean that I would have tabled my opponent). Knights are very good against other ground armies, but my army is the paper to his rock army. So never mind the Maelstrom objectives, I envision a potential tabling in this game and that is what I am going to play for.
Here is the dilemma. Ben has got 24 BS5 S6 AP3 shots plus 1 big-a$$ AP3 template weapon. If he shoots at my flyrants on the ground, he will statistically cause 5 unsaved wounds by the Gatling Cannons and 2-3W on separate flyrants with his flamer weapon. Thus, to deploy my flyrants is to lose at least 1, and so I decide to reserve them.
I deploy my spore mines at the opposite corner.
Psychic powers include a couple of Catalysts and Warp Blasts. Warlord Trait is nothing useful.
Turn 1 is uneventful. Knights move onto objectives and get the early lead on the Maelstrom Secondary by grabbing 2 of his objectives (scored at the end of the game turn, of course).
My opponent also gets lucky as one of his objectives is revealed to be the Skyfire Nexus.
Tyranid 1
Spoiler:
Everything remains the same. This is the quickest Turn 1 that I've ever had. Not even 1 sec. Yes, I think we're going to have plenty of time to relax after this game.
Knights 2
Spoiler:
Ben's Turn 2 is almost as fast. He adjusts the position of his Knights to grab another Maelstrom objective. His turn takes less than 1 minute. Should have brought a book to read with all the waiting I've had to do in this game.
Tyranid 2
Spoiler:
3 mawlocs come in this turn. All 3 hits the same Knight. I only cause 1 HP but with 6 S6 hits against AV12, that is statistically average. What isn't average, however, is that all 3 mishap back into reserves.
4 of my flyrants come in as well. Now you see him....
....now you don't.
Next!
I also get +2 Maelstrom VP's for killing the knight.
Knights 3
Spoiler:
Knights go in close to try to kill any flyrants that fall onto the ground.
Shooter on the Skyfire objective causes my flyrant to jink but only manages to put 1W on him (after 4+ cover and 5+ FNP from Catalyst). He stays in the air.
Ben does manage to grab another Maelstrom objective at the end of the game turn.
Tyranid 3
Spoiler:
I go after 2 potential targets. The last flyrant comes in as well and one of the mawlocs scatter off of a Knight (the other mawlocs go back in reserves after doing nothing).
Another Knight bites the dust. I also put 3W onto one of his Gatling Knights.
+3 Maelstrom points for me for doing 9 HP's of damage. At this point, I am ahead on Maelstrom and don't relinquish the lead on the Secondary.
Knights 4
Spoiler:
Knights move behind my flyrants. Ben makes a mistake and moves his shooty Knight off of the Skyfire objective, but I let him move it back within range in his Shooting Phase.
Acheron goes after my other mawloc.
Shooting causes 1 of my flyrants to jink. He might have put 1-2W on it as well.
We then go to assault.
The knight only hits 1 time but then rolls a on the Destroyer table to take him out.
The Acheron also charges my other mawloc, hits 4 times, then rolls a , , and to take him out as well!
Well that was unlucky for me.
Tyranid 4
Spoiler:
Mawloc comes in and scatters off of a Knight.
One of my flyrants go into Gliding mode. One of my flyrants fly off the table.
Another knight bites the dust.
Knights 5
Spoiler:
With 2 knights left, how much damage can they possibly do?
Well, shooting with Skyfire takes down 1 flyrant (Catalyst did not go off last turn).
Acheron then assaults my mawloc and his Warlord assaults my grounded flyrant.
Ouch!
He "sixes" another mawloc.
An excellent turn by my opponent.
Tyranid 5
Spoiler:
Last mawloc comes in on an objective in case the game ends.
Flyrants move about.
I reduce the Acheron down to just 1 HP remaining but can't kill him.
Did I say I couldn't kill him? Mucolids assault....
And now only 1 knight, his Warlord, remains.
If game ends, we tie on Primary and I will take the Maelstrom Secondary as well as 2 of the bonus Tertiaries, but the game continues.
Knights 6
Spoiler:
His Warlord shoots down my Warlord.
Tyranid 6
Spoiler:
In my gut, I know that the game will just continue and so I do not land my flyrants to contest his objective (thus, giving me the Primary as well should the game end).
However, I cannot kill him with my shooting. He's at half-strength now.
I was right. The game will go on to a final turn.
Knights 7
Spoiler:
He shoots at my flyrant but with 4+ jink and FNP, my flyrant survives. Once again, I pass my grounding test (haven't failed them all game)
Tyranid 7
Spoiler:
I land. His Warlord survives but it doesn't matter.
I take both the Primary (his objective is contested, I've got a mawloc on my objective) as well as the Maelstrom Secondary. I also get the 2 bonus points (First Blood + Linebreaker, would have also gotten Big Game Hunter, his Acheron, had we been playing the right mission). Ben gets a point for killing my Warlord.
My opponent put up a bigger fight than I had expected. The Skyfire objective really helped him out. It caused the death of 2 of my flyrants, including my Warlord, as well as numerous jinks by my flyrants. Without it, the game wouldn't have even been that close. I did, however, get a little lucky with my Reserves on Turn 2. 4 flyrants and 3 mawlocs coming in was pretty good and the fact that all 3 mawlocs hit and then went back into reserves was better than I expected. Despite the matchup, Ben did play well. He kept "feeding" me his assault Knights by moving them into my "range" so that he could continue to shoot with his shooty knights. He would then move his knights behind me whenever he could to make it hard for me to get into his side armor. Finally, I believe my Warp Blasts did a couple of hull points here and there. However, I just couldn't roll a on the damage table with them.
Coming up next....Eldar!
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/07/19 20:31:37
To be fair, I like looking at the armies to occasionally find alternate paint schemes and methods to help me improve my own armies. That being said, also mildly amused that Geoff brought the army he did. I figured he would stay on a Tyranid binge. I just have one question. How did you guys mix up the first scenario Jim?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/16 17:23:45
"There is a cancer eating at the Imperium. With each decade it advances deeper, leaving drained, dead worlds in its wake. This horror, this abomination, has thought and purpose that functions on an unimaginable, galactic scale and all we can do is try to stop the swarms of bioengineered monsters it unleashes upon us by instinct. We have given the horror a name to salve our fears; we call it the Tyranid race, but if is aware of us at all it must know us only as Prey."
Hive Fleet Grootslang 15000+
Servants of the Void 2000+
2015/07/16 17:10:23
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT
Geoff's been playing bugs forever. It's about time to re-invest into the hobby by adding another army. It is also a good idea as it adds variety to your play-style. For me at least, I'd get bored if I just play 1 army ever. Thus, I have multiple armies which I can rotate every time I play to keep things "fresh". I think Geoff is at that point where he needs to rotate his armies.
As for the mission, we just didn't hear them annouce to do the last mission first, so we played the first mission first (I mean the first mission on our packet). No biggie, as long as both parties agree on it. All the TO's really care about is that you turn in the score at the end of the game.
"There is a cancer eating at the Imperium. With each decade it advances deeper, leaving drained, dead worlds in its wake. This horror, this abomination, has thought and purpose that functions on an unimaginable, galactic scale and all we can do is try to stop the swarms of bioengineered monsters it unleashes upon us by instinct. We have given the horror a name to salve our fears; we call it the Tyranid race, but if is aware of us at all it must know us only as Prey."
Hive Fleet Grootslang 15000+
Servants of the Void 2000+
2015/07/16 18:21:27
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT
Note: We actually played the wrong mission, but the result was just the same nevertheless.
I think I talked to maybe two to three others that did the same thing playing, Mission 5 first. I almost did it as well but I knew something was off when if wasn't Emperors Will.
BAO 2015 : Best Space Wolves.
The best battle plans are the simplest. Just run forward and punch your enemy in the face.
2015/07/16 20:14:03
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT
jy2, thank you for your awesome pictures, analysis and battle reports of these GT's that you go to. They truly are inspiring and very entertaining as well!
2000+
"Can we stop saying CCSM and CSM to just say CSM and SM? I mean really, don't we already know they have a codex? Plus my colon key is broken."
2015/07/16 22:38:39
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT
yukondal wrote: jy2, thank you for your awesome pictures, analysis and battle reports of these GT's that you go to. They truly are inspiring and very entertaining as well!
Note: We actually played the wrong mission, but the result was just the same nevertheless.
I think I talked to maybe two to three others that did the same thing playing, Mission 5 first. I almost did it as well but I knew something was off when if wasn't Emperors Will.
Congrats to you for winning Best Space Wolves. That is a great achievement indeed for running an army that is just as extreme as mine.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/16 22:39:26
Do you know how the Space Marine armored strikeforce with the knight fared?
Words of wisdom by Prophet40k
That game put my faith in Khorne to the test. My table-neighbor looked at the match up and said "Here you're going to need these more than I will" and handed me a bag of Jello shots. They must have pleased Khorne because I walked out 11-2.
Now looking at another list with MORE tyrants and MORE mawlocks, I said to myself. "Oh well looks like it's time for another beer. It'll take the sting out of this. LOL"
2015/07/17 15:49:58
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT
Wet Coast GT 2015 Best Overall
TSHFT 3rd Place, Best Eldar
Guardian Cup 8.5 Best General
Attack-X Best Overall
WGWB Best Overall
Tanksgiving Best Overall, Best Painted
22-2 for 2015
2015/07/17 17:40:38
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT (Game #1 completed on p.1)
Do you know how the Space Marine armored strikeforce with the knight fared?
Sorry, but I don't.
If it wasn't Battle Company, then I don't think it did as well.
I looked at the results. There were a lot of marine players. I don't think any marine/knight players finished very high in the standings.
Words of wisdom by Prophet40k
That game put my faith in Khorne to the test. My table-neighbor looked at the match up and said "Here you're going to need these more than I will" and handed me a bag of Jello shots. They must have pleased Khorne because I walked out 11-2.
Now looking at another list with MORE tyrants and MORE mawlocks, I said to myself. "Oh well looks like it's time for another beer. It'll take the sting out of this. LOL"
2015/07/18 15:35:55
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT
ibushi wrote: Great stuff JY -- especial thanks for the photo rundown of all the armies, is great to see all those!
Quick question -- I didnt think BAO missions used mysterious objectives, but sounds like your opponent got a skyfire nexus?
Keep up the great reports, looking forward to more
Sure, the BAO uses Mysterious Objectives. The only time the missions don't use the rules in the BRB are:
1. If the mission pack explicitly tells you not to use it.
2. If the mission pack modifies the rules.
3. If you and your opponent both either agree not to play it or you both forget about it.
Otherwise, Mysterious Objectives is as much a part of the game as taking an armor save. Probably what you are thinking about is Mysterious Forests/terrain, which in early ITC play was not used.
deathmagiks wrote: Your #5 opponent is a good friend of mine, I'll be really excited to see that bat rep. Subscribed.
Thanks, he was a really cool guy and was drinking throughout the entire tournament. He even gave me 3 beers. I'd gladly play him again and next time, I'll bring the beers.
Do you know how the Space Marine armored strikeforce with the knight fared?
Sorry, but I don't.
If it wasn't Battle Company, then I don't think it did as well.
I looked at the results. There were a lot of marine players. I don't think any marine/knight players finished very high in the standings.
Yeah, Marines were everywhere. The new Battle Company is really good, but it is nowhere near broken. And I say this from the standpoint as both a BC player as well as someone who has played against them before. I think Steve Sisk, the guy who won the BAO last year, might have been the highest-placing Space Marine player and he ran the Battle Company.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey guys, do me a favor.
There's a lot of pictures here on p.1 already. This page is going to be slow as heck for the mobile readers.
Please bump this thread to p.2 and I will begin Game #2 there to alleviate the bandwidth issue for the mobile phone readers.
Thanks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/18 21:21:38
Wet Coast GT 2015 Best Overall
TSHFT 3rd Place, Best Eldar
Guardian Cup 8.5 Best General
Attack-X Best Overall
WGWB Best Overall
Tanksgiving Best Overall, Best Painted
22-2 for 2015
2015/07/18 22:15:32
Subject: Re:1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT 2015 (Game #1 completed on p.1)
I cannot wait to see that game on page 2. Odd though, my phone handles it well.
"There is a cancer eating at the Imperium. With each decade it advances deeper, leaving drained, dead worlds in its wake. This horror, this abomination, has thought and purpose that functions on an unimaginable, galactic scale and all we can do is try to stop the swarms of bioengineered monsters it unleashes upon us by instinct. We have given the horror a name to salve our fears; we call it the Tyranid race, but if is aware of us at all it must know us only as Prey."
Hive Fleet Grootslang 15000+
Servants of the Void 2000+
2015/07/19 01:49:50
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT 2015 (Game #1 completed on p.1)
Its games like these that just make me weep at how bad mech armies have it in this edition. These giant vehicles of death just being glanced to death like no ones business. Very lucky that you guys rolled up the mysterious objectives and he got skyfire or else this game might have been even more one-sided. I’m pretty sure I didn’t roll for any mysterious the entire tournament. Already too much paper work to remember (what objectives I have to grab and my opponent needs to get) without worrying about random objectives giving bonuses as well.
BAO 2015 : Best Space Wolves.
The best battle plans are the simplest. Just run forward and punch your enemy in the face.
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
3000
4000 
Daemons: 5000+ points
CSM/Black Legion: 5000+ points
Deathwatch/Knights: 5000 points
on the Destroyer table to take him out.
, 
2000+
