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2015/08/03 00:19:18
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT 2015 (Game #3 Completed on p.2)
There is so much Belakor shannigans here in the Chicagoland area that I have trouble NOT putting in 3 Stalkers in every list just to shoot Belakor down.
2015/08/03 06:25:11
Subject: Re:1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT 2015 (Game #3 Completed on p.2)
I too cannot wait. That 5th player is a friend of mine and I really enjoyed playing with him before he moved. Great guy, great opponent and generally really enjoyable to spend a game with.
That said, dude knows his stuff and will wreck you pretty bad with some very interesting lists. Unless the Fireball whiskey is out, then it's a toss up whether it'll be the fireball or his daemons that'll beat you. I still remember that headache...
"Russ - This guy is basically werewolf Dick Cheney. No pity at all."
-Vulgar, because it was too funny not to steal
2015/08/03 19:19:23
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT 2015 (Game #4 Completed on p.3)
BTW, the Tyranid terrain in my Game #4 against Alan was terrain that Frontline Gaming custom-built for a customer of theirs. If you are interested in terrain by Frontline, you can always contact them here:
DarthDiggler wrote: There is so much Belakor shannigans here in the Chicagoland area that I have trouble NOT putting in 3 Stalkers in every list just to shoot Belakor down.
I myself run Be'lakor. It just took me a while to try to get to him due to my flyrants having to turn around.
And while I brought a decent amount of ignore cover offense because of Ravenwing (mawlocs, egrubs), Tyranids just do not have an answer to flying 2+ cover other than sheer VoF, vector strikes and, if you're lucky, successfully casting Psychic Scream against units that are denying on 4+'s and with a lot more dispel dice than you have power dice.
Spartan089 wrote: How do most armies compete against that ridiculousness that is daemons? Great games man, keep up the awesome write ups.
Thanks.
Not much you can do when Daemons are rolling well. However, what hurts daemons the most is their own dice. All it takes is just 1 failed Grimoire at a crucial time or not being able to get your psychic powers off consistently or getting bad gifts or a bad Warp Storm result at an inopportune time. If Daemons can roll consistently, then they may perhaps be one of the hardest armies to play against. However, in a 5-7 game series such as a GT, they are bound to have bad rolls at times. That's what usually kills them - their own dice.
Or you could run Skyfire Tau with a lot of markerlights and cover ignoring firepower.
Dozer Blades wrote: Can't wait to see the final batrep - that was a rough matchup but you did the best you could.
Thanks. Honestly, I felt that I could have played better, but I was just rusty against Daemons.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
deathmagiks wrote: I too cannot wait. That 5th player is a friend of mine and I really enjoyed playing with him before he moved. Great guy, great opponent and generally really enjoyable to spend a game with.
That said, dude knows his stuff and will wreck you pretty bad with some very interesting lists. Unless the Fireball whiskey is out, then it's a toss up whether it'll be the fireball or his daemons that'll beat you. I still remember that headache...
LOL!
Yeah, he was an awesome guy. Played through most of the tournament buzzed as well. He was joking with me that he was drinking his way to victory. Next time, I might have to steal that idea from him.
I would gladly play him again.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/03 19:21:45
Isn't Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage a Khorne Daemonkin unit?
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2015/08/04 02:45:53
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT 2015 (Game #4 Completed on p.3)
Though I don't have the issue, I do recall seeing the BT's in White Dwarf before the Daemonkin book came out.
Besides, I doubt that after winning 2 previous GT's that no one would have caught any mistakes in his list (though his 2 previous lists were orks-daemons, his main army was basically daemons).
Here is how I see it Jim - you played your list the best you could and made an excellent run... but Nidz are just not competitive enough to go up against a top tier army like daemons. To me daemons are the number one most competitive army for too many reasons to list. Maybe had your luck been different you could have avoided Alan until the final round but oh well thems the breaks. I think you did really awesome with an army you love. Not to change the subject but I can't wait to see you play another army besides Nidz and Cronz.
Wow, that was an absolutely brutal game. Tough loss JY2. Though I will say you are an equally good loser as you are a gracious winner.
Looking forward to the next battle rep. I've never actually played against Khorne Daemonkin, so I'm interested in seeing them in a competitive setting.
Dozer Blades wrote: Here is how I see it Jim - you played your list the best you could and made an excellent run... but Nidz are just not competitive enough to go up against a top tier army like daemons. To me daemons are the number one most competitive army for too many reasons to list. Maybe had your luck been different you could have avoided Alan until the final round but oh well thems the breaks. I think you did really awesome with an army you love. Not to change the subject but I can't wait to see you play another army besides Nidz and Cronz.
I believe that nids can compete with Daemons. Give me 2nd turn and I will guarantee you the results would have been completely different (not to imply that I would have won, but my chances would have increased dramatically). I just should have known better that my opponent would have the know-how to counter-deploy against my strategy.
Freytag93 wrote: Wow, that was an absolutely brutal game. Tough loss JY2. Though I will say you are an equally good loser as you are a gracious winner.
Looking forward to the next battle rep. I've never actually played against Khorne Daemonkin, so I'm interested in seeing them in a competitive setting.
Thanks. I like to give credit where credit is due. Alan played like a champ.
Will start the last game later today.
Cieged wrote: As always, thanks for posting your pictures and experiences! Very interesting reads.
If you really need to go first or second versus certain armies that shows an inherent weakness - it is certainly not something you can or should count on.
A good army has the flexibility to go 1st or 2nd. However, it is indisputable that in the ITC format, there is an inherent advantage for most armies going 2nd. Really, whoever went 2nd in this game, whether Alan or me, had an inherent advantage, never mind the army. This goes beyond the army.
jy2 wrote: A good army has the flexibility to go 1st or 2nd. However, it is indisputable that in the ITC format, there is an inherent advantage for most armies going 2nd. Really, whoever went 2nd in this game, whether Alan or me, had an inherent advantage, never mind the army. This goes beyond the army.
Using any mission type that revolves around end of game objectives has this issue. It's a good reason that Maelstrom missions, in theory, are superior.
Every mission that is "hold an objective at the end of the game" plays out exactly the same; it's just "kill whatever you can for 5 turns, then go stand on a thing".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/06 21:48:25
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2015/08/06 23:05:37
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT 2015 (Game #4 Completed on p.3)
Sometimes going first is more advantageous even for the ITC mission format... Obviously this was not the case. One example is the need to get your psychic buffs up if you're up against army like drop pod Space Marines with the Skyhammer formation.
jy2 wrote: A good army has the flexibility to go 1st or 2nd. However, it is indisputable that in the ITC format, there is an inherent advantage for most armies going 2nd. Really, whoever went 2nd in this game, whether Alan or me, had an inherent advantage, never mind the army. This goes beyond the army.
Using any mission type that revolves around end of game objectives has this issue. It's a good reason that Maelstrom missions, in theory, are superior.
Every mission that is "hold an objective at the end of the game" plays out exactly the same; it's just "kill whatever you can for 5 turns, then go stand on a thing".
Exactly, and in the ITC format, even the Maelstroms are scored at the end of the game turn.
Dozer Blades wrote: Sometimes going first is more advantageous even for the ITC mission format... Obviously this was not the case. One example is the need to get your psychic buffs up if you're up against army like drop pod Space Marines with the Skyhammer formation.
Yes, sometimes it is. If you were going up against a good alpha-strike army with the potential to cripple you, then that is when you should consider going 1st for certain armies (especially the armies that rely on flying or psychic buffs).
However, my army isn't like that. When I designed it, I designed it with going 2nd and still surviving an alpha-strike in mind. I actually played against a Skyhammer list in another tournament with the exact same Tyranid army. He had 2x10 devastators with 8 grav-cannons and 2x3 grav-centurions in drop pods for a super nasty alpha-strike army. So what did I do? I won initiative and then chose to go 2nd.
I then deploy nothing but my mucolids and spores.
At the end of the game, I scored 11-1 and lost only a single mawloc.
In my game against Alan, I got greedy with thoughts of crippling his army with a T1 Tyranid alpha-strike. What I should have done instead was to opt to go 2nd and play to the objectives instead.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/06 23:55:27
That's usually true. The game wasn't lost by me going 1st, though it did become a more uphill battle for me.
However, I'm upset with myself because when you are going up against a championship-caliber player (especially one that has won multiple GT's), you've got to assume that he would know how to play/deploy against a MoA opponent going 1st. I wasn't thinking logically. I only had visions of a dead Be'lakor or Fateweaver in my mind.
I admit that when I first saw Jon's army, I was somewhat caught by surprise. What? Daemonkin at the top tables? And undefeated?!? At the time Jon (aka Prophet40K here on dakka) was 3-wins 1-draw (his 1 draw coming against my own teammate, Mr.MoreTanks). Now I don't know anything about my opponent, other than he was a jovial guy who liked to drink (first thing he did was to offer me a beer ). Jon also told me that he didn't like to make decisions, which was why he chose Khorne Daemonkin. With that army, there isn't many decisions to make....just rush forwards and charge! But can that strategy actually work against an army like mine? Admittedly, just looking at his army, I already was starting to feel bad for what I was going to do it.
1. Hold Maelstrom Objective 1.
2. Hold Maelstrom Objective 2.
3. Destroy an enemy unit.
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
6. Have at least 3 of your scoring units and no enemy scoring units at least partially within your own deployment zone.
Tertiary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each
Even before the tournament, here are my thoughts on Daemonkin....they aren't competitive. And I say that as someone who runs Daemonkin also. So why aren't they competitive in my opinion? First of all, they are a 1-dimensional army based just on assault. They've got no shooting. But there are assault armies out there that do well. For instance, daemons. However, what sets Daemons apart from Daemonkin? The layers and layers of power-stacking. Daemons have the Grimoire and tons of psychic buffs as well as Daemonic Gifts to make their assault units resilient enough to make it into combat and then to also survive in combat. Daemonkin? Nothing, other than FNP from the Blood table. At least with my Daemonkin, I bring in Daemons to help with their Resiliency (Be'lakor and a Grimoire D-thirster). Jon didn't have any of that in his army. It was just mainly a somewhat fluffy Khorne army that wasn't built on power-stacking shenanigans.
Immediately, I just started feeling bad for his army. This was a total mismatch. I've got flyrants. Other than the fire raptor (and vector-strikes from his thirster), he has no ways to deal with them. He's got mass walkers. My flyrants with their haywire templates and S6 shots can easily deal with them. His bloodthirster is going to die as soon as I decide to focus on him (he isn't a threat to my army in my opinion). His void shield generator (VSG) is going to be useless as my flyrants can easily get inside their range. The only thing Jon has got going for him is that he is going 2nd. With his assault units, I'd be reluctant to land my flyrants. Thus, Jon will have a slight advantage in the Maelstrom objectives. Other than that, my intent is to go for the table. At least I don't think that Jon will take it too hard when I beat his army to a pulp. 1) He's playing Khorne...they're meant to destroy or be destroyed and 2) looks like he's here more for the dice rolling and beer drinking than for the actual winning/losing. Which is cool. I'm all for that.
Thanks to Jon, I will add his commentary to this report.
My Warlord Trait is the -1 to my opponent's Reserves (which, IMO, will actually helps my opponent).
My psychic powers include a few Catalysts, a couple of Warp Blasts and other powers.
I deploy my flyrants directly across from his VSG (Void Shield Generator).
Everything else, I leave in Reserves.
Jon deploys 4 maulerfiends up front as well as his D-thirster (the Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage). He makes sure to spread out his maulerfiends.
He also deploys 1 maulerfiend to the very right flank (right flank from my perspective).
Jon: I would like to share my thought process of our game as it played out.
Objective placement: this to me is where many of players lose their games. I knew I had to place objectives in areas I knew my army could get to with relative ease. So I opted for a strong centerish placing. The #1 in the ruins roughly 30"x6" from my right, and then one almost dead center of the table.
My thinking was that I could claim #1 at any time due to reserves walking on with LOS protection (in hind sight, and after learning what mawlocks do to things on the ground I would have placed it on the upper level and followed suit with the units).
#2 I placed this one in a way that I thought that if you wanted to contest it you would have to hang back and thereby affording the rest of my army some measure of protection in the form of void shields.
Deployment and first turn. I felt I definitely didn't want to have to go first, if I did I would have been at a tremendous disadvantage. Any time I brought on reserves as you could pick them off one at a time. Quite literally like shooting demons in a barrel. If you went first I could place reserves in such a way that I might force your guys into glide mode so you could maximize shots. Your warlord trait of -1 to my reserve rolls further enforced my thoughts on this.
I noted during your deployment that you deployed in a "Blitz" formation in the center but left both your objectives wide open. So I put my mauler without lasher tendrils on the left board edge, I figured you would have to dedicate at least 2 rounds of movement to deal with him. Hopefully allowing him to net me some maelstrom points. I had decided that I was likely going to be tabled as well, so putting him there also meant precious time. Daemonkin are late game performers so I knew the more time I had the better.
Tyranids fly forwards. I land one of my flyrants to grab one of my Maelstrom objectives.
My shooting takes out 2 maulerfiends, nabbing me First Blood.
Daemonkin 1
Spoiler:
Thirster vector-strikes one of my flyrants. Maulerfiends move up.
His other maulerfiend all the way to my right goes and grab his Maelstrom objective #2 as well.
No shooting.
He tries a long 10-11" charge against my flyrant but fails. His maulerfiend then takes 2HP of damage from Egrub Overwatch.
That is another "secret" weapon of mine. Let his maulerfiends charge and take D3 Haywire hits. I will then Smash with my flyrant to try to take off the last HP.
I believe we both get 1 Maelstrom objective this turn.
Jon: Turn 1. Shock an Awe, when you moved all your flyrants INSIDE the vsg I thought ... "lol man I better prepare to get wrecked", but with some lucky demonic saves I managed to tank enough of the wounds, and save my infantry.
On my turn I vector struck your warlord, then took a chance and moved a mauler in such a way that if you wanted rear armor on him you'd have to move in to another vector path for my thirster. A risky play as it meant that you'd have to take the bait, AND that my BT would have to live. Lucky for me you did indeed head that way, and the BT lived. I ran the mauler up the left side to claim #2 and spent the rest of the turn basically trying to spread out so you'd have to work to table me.
Tyranids 2
Spoiler:
Only 1 mawloc comes in and he lands directly underneath the Possessed (with the Warpsmith). I hit most of them (and I hit them twice!!) but Khorne is with them today as they make a ton of 5++ saves. I only end up killing 3. My mawloc then mishaps and I roll a on the Mishap chart, thus killing my mawloc.
Flyrants move in all directions. I land one of my flyrants on Objective #2 because it is one of my Maelstrom objectives again. (I don't need to worry about assault from his D-thirster as it is in the air.)
In the shooting phase, I take out another 2 maulerfiends once again. However, the damaged maulerfiend to the right (the one with only 1HP left) took both flyrants just to kill him.
Daemonkin 2
Spoiler:
With his Blood points, Jon summons a unit of bloodcrushers. He also gives his Slaughtercult units FNP.
Warlord with bloodletters come in. The fire raptor does not.
BT goes to vector-strike my Warlord once again.
Maulerfiend goes to grab Objective #1. He also gets into my deployment zone for another Maelstrom objective.
Warpsmith and the Possessed then make the charge against my flyrant. He actually does 3W to my flyrant and I believe I only kill 1 Possessed in return. More importantly, he is contesting one of my Maelstrom objectives.
On this turn, Jon pulls ahead on the Maelstroms by 1.
Jon: Turn 2. You landed one of your flyrants to gain center #2, and roughed up some maulers. I think killing Horns ( the Bait), did 2hp to the last center mauler, and the BT took some wounds.
My turn 2 saw me summoning some crushers which I placed on the left side. my warlord came in with a unit of bls and I panicked as I remembered I didn't attach him to anyone during deployment. Amazingly due to perfect deep striking I was able to attach him to the unit. I was crushed when the fire raptor didn't come in.
I knew it was a long shot but I couldn't ignore a gliding tyrant so moved both of my units that could threaten him into assault range. I moved the mauler on the left up to claim your #1. After declaring the mauler as the first assaulter I almost flipped the table at my stupidity when you said "I get D3 haywire shots" then follow up with a 3!! I would love to have seen the look on my face at that... LOL. This bold move of mine went from long shot to "Oh well at least I get blood tithes." After the assault I was amazed that I had only lost 1 possessed.
Tyranids 3
Spoiler:
All of my mawlocs come in.
2 units of mawlocs hit the Herald's (his Warlord) unit and wipe out the bloodletters (but his Warlord still lives). Both of them mishaps back into Reserves.
The 3rd mawloc comes up and then runs into Jon's deployment zone to fulfill one of my Maelstrom objectives (get a unit within 12" of my opponent's deployment edge).
I move 2 flyrants to deal with his D-thirster. I shoot him down with 1 flyrant (he was already wounded) and my Warlord then runs off the table. We then remember about FNP. So Jon takes his FNP saves and I am forced to keep my Warlord on the table to finish him off.
My 3rd flyrant turns around and goes after his Warlord. I easily achieve Slay the Warlord.
The 4th flyrant heads over to my right flank (with his crushers and last maulerfiend) and then runs.
Jon gets his first actual kill of the game (not counting my mawloc who died from the mishap).
Daemonkin 3
Spoiler:
Fire raptor comes in and goes after my Warlord.
Jon summons a unit of Flesh Hounds with his Blood points as well as give his army FNP again.
His last unit of bloodletters come in but they mishap. I then put them into the right corner of Jon's deployment zone.
Daemonkin movement to the right.
Warpsmith goes after the mawloc.
He is able to shoot down my Warlord because 1) I failed to cast Catalyst last turn and 2) I couldn't make a jink save. Jon gets Slay the Warlord as well.
Maulerfiend assaults the mucolid and then consolidates such that his rear is covered by the ruins.
Lastly, the Warpsmith charges the mawloc.
I kill 1 possessed and they cause 2W in return.
Mawloc then Hit-&-runs out of combat.
At this point, I believe Jon is still ahead on the Maelstrom objectives by 1. Jon is also making somewhat of a comeback after killing 2 of my flyrants (and the mawloc which was killed by the mishap). But he is still behind after losing 4 maulerfiends, the D-thirster, his Warlord and 1 unit of bloodletters.
Jon: Turn 3. ( Things get really fuzzy around this point, I really should have slowed with the beer.) You killed my BT but had to keep your wl on the table thanks to the fnp. My possessed and warpsmith did the nearly impossible and took out the tyrant in melee. You only had 2 hits and I think rolled 2 1's to wound. You kill my wl and bls with those brutal mawlocs.
My side of turn 3 I summoned some flesh hounds. Then my reserve rolls only saw the fire raptor and one unit of bls come on. The bls mishap and you make them sit in the corner of shame (priceless btw). I bring in the raptor and hunt your warlord. I am pretty low on blood tithes so I charge some of your mines and decide that my Warpsmith is a ninja and can kill a mawlock, which surprisingly they won combat and did some damage. Not sure if I made saves, fnps or you didnt hit. but the hit and run out spelled the end of them.
Tyranids 4
Spoiler:
My 2 mawlocs come in. However, they both scatter completely off-target (off of the Warpsmith's unit).
Damn. I was planning on sending my flyrants towards the right flank, but now I am going to have to keep them here in order to deal with his Warpsmith and the last Possessed.
Here is where I make probably my biggest mistake in the game. Instead of flying my far-left flyrant off the table, I put him in Glide mode so that I could turn him around to go after the Warpsmith's unit.
What I forgot, however, was his Void Shield Generator. The void shields stops my flyrant shooting cold.
Flyrant goes after the crushers.
My last flyrant goes after the newly-arrived flesh hounds. (I was actually moving him towards the right flank but the crushers were out of range, so I shot at the dogs instead.)
Jon makes some incredible saves. Overall, I only manage to cause 1 unsaved Wound to 1 crusher and no unsaved wounds to the flesh hounds this turn from my shooting.
Lastly, my mawloc assaults the Warpsmith and finishes off both the Warpsmith and Possessed.
Daemonkin 4
Spoiler:
Flesh hounds go after my mawloc(s).
Jon makes a mistake here. He still has 1 cultist in Reserves, which he rolls for and fails. However, as it is Turn 4, they should automatically come in. I didn't really pay enough attention so I didn't catch this mistake until next turn.
Because my flyrant is on the ground, his fire raptor goes into skimmer mode to make a 180 degree turn. (Had my flyrant flown off the table last turn, which was what I should have done, most likely his raptor would have flown off as well.)
Crushers move onto a Maelstrom objective. Bloodletters who mishapped last turn move and then run forwards.
Raptor shoots down another flyrant as I fail basically all of my 4+ cover saves.
Hounds then assault the mawloc and cause 3W to it. In return, my mawloc does no damage.
However, I do Hit-&-run out of combat.
Wow! What a turn-around. This turn, Jon's dice were absolutely hot and mine were ice-cold. I am still behind on the Maelstroms (by 1-2 points) as I haven't been able to stop Jon from claiming his Maelstroms. I am actually behind in the game currently, despite my decimation of Jon's army up to this point.
Jon: Turn 4. You put another flyrant on the ground, not sure why? I think to blast away the possessed. you move another flyrant to start hunting the mauler on the left. You warpblast him and I belligerently roll a 5++ (or it might have been a shot into cover?, either way it was a belligerent roll). You kill the possessed and the warpsmith.
My turn 4 I roll for reserves (and I still feel gakky about that) and only one squad of cultists come in. Raptor drops to hover and takes out a flyrant. I keep my mauler hiding in the ruins and run the crushers to claim #1. I charge the fleshounds into combat hoping to kill a mawloc. I do not. You hit and run out. then I consolidate towards #2, I think contesting it.
Tyranids 5
Spoiler:
Tyranid movement. l land my flyrant on Objective #1.
In the psychic phase, I am finally able to get off Warp Blast successfully and it blows up Jon's last maulerfiend.
NOOOO!!! I needed to wipe out his unit of crushers in order to have a chance. However, Jon's good fortune continues as he survives the shooting from my 2 flyrants.
I then double-assault his flesh hounds with both mawlocs. He does another 1W of damage to my red mawloc and I kill a puppy.
This is my last mistake of the game. I Hit-&-Run my mawloc out of combat to claim Objective #2 (because it is also one of my Maelstrom objectives). While that was a good move, I did it 1 turn too early. Should have waited until the end of Jon's turn before I got my mawloc out of combat.
The key here is that I needed to kill off his crushers but didn't. That will probably cost me the game. Over 2 turns and with 3 flyrants, I should have caused 18W of damage against them after saves. Instead, I only caused 7W.
Daemonkin 5
Spoiler:
Jon walks his cultist in and then runs them to capture his home objective over my flyrant (due to them being Objective Secured). It wasn't until the end of the game when I finally realized Jon's mistake.
Bloodletters and the lone crusher move towards the objectives.
Raptor shoots down my mawloc to deny me one of my objectives. This was my mistake here. Had I Hit-&-run this turn instead of last, my mawloc would have been alive and claiming the objective. I would have also had another Maelstrom point as well.
Finally, crusher runs to deny me Objective #1 as well as to grab Linebreaker.
Game ends due to time.
Jon: Turn 5, you charge the flesh hounds with a lot of stuff but they weather the storm. You cleverly only hit and run with one mawloc very strategically pulling me off #2. You shoot at the crushers and I make a staggering amount of saves, leaving one alive with 1 wound.
My turn five I move to claim/contest. The cheating cultists come on. ( Still feel way gakky about that.) The fire raptor kills the mawloc on #2.
Jon has the Maelstrom Secondary, winning by 1 or 2 points.
For the Primary, bloodletters are on an objective. His ObSec cultists have the objective over my flyrant and the last objective is contested by his crushers and my flyrant. Officially (what we turned in), Jon won the Primary 2-0.
Jon gets Warlord and Linebreaker (his lone crusher) for 2 bonus points. I get First Blood (maulerfiend), his Warlord and Linebreaker (flyrant, mawloc) for 3 bonus points.
Officially, Jon wins 10-3.
Unofficially, I would have been able to wipe out his cultists with my flyrant (and for added insurance, could have assaulted them with my spore mines) to claim his home objective. We would have tied on the Primary with 1 objective apiece. However, I still would have lost due to the Maelstrom Secondary. Now Jon was apologetic and offered to change the scores, but I told him that it was ok. It still would have been a lost for me anyways even had I got his home objective. Besides, I had a lot of fun that game and Jon was a very enjoyable opponent to play against.
I admit, that was a tough loss. It was actually a tougher loss than my game against Alan because I was really expecting to win this one. This loss also took me out of the running for the award of Best Tyranids (had I won it, I would have most likely won Best Tyranids). I was completely dominating Jon's Daemonkin initially but a couple of key mistakes and the dice turning on me in the later turns snatched Defeat from the jaws of Victory for me.
2 things really stand out this game to me:
1) Not being able to kill his crushers. This led to them contesting my objective as well as getting Linebreaker. Had I been able to kill them (and had we reversed the cultist situation), I would have won Primary.
2) Hit-&-run at the wrong time. Had I Hit-&-ran on my opponent's turn instead of mine (and had we reversed the cultist situation), I would have won Primary.
Winning Primary would have given me the win. If I take Primary and he takes Secondary, then I win from the Bonus Tertiary objectives. But since neither of the above happened, it didn't really matter to me whether we reversed the cultist situation or not. A loss is still a loss.
Jon ended up doing really well, being 1 of 5 players to go undefeated at the BAO (he ended up 4-0-1). He placed 5th overall and won the award for Best Chaos player.
I had a great time and had 5 great opponents. I finished 31st out of 134 players and was well short of my goal (Top 10 and Top Tyranid player). I'd especially like to thank Jon for ruining my hopes and dreams and for bribing me with beers, trying to get me drunk and then cheating and drinking his way to victory. HAHA! Just kidding, Jon. But seriously, Jon was a great opponent and I'd like to thank him for opening my eyes as to how good Daemonkin can be when played correctly.
Jon: My loose battle plan was to spread out and hopefully force you to glide so I could pull of some charges. I knew with us being this close to the top table, that you'd have to be aggressive. Especially because you couldn't afford to give up maelstrom.
Looking back. I think -1 to my reserve rolls helped me by simply allowing me not to be around for Mawloc lunch times.
Over all that was a great and challenging game. I felt every turn it was suspenseful and pretty tense, but in a fun way. I have had experience with several other 5 tyrant lists and usually they are jerks. I am still not sure how I pulled a W out of that, I'll use the words of Allen Dehesa my RQTF teammate "Man, Costa you are the only dude I know that can drink his way to victory."
I can't thank you enough for that enjoyable game, and I sincerely hope we get to cross blades again!
This message was edited 16 times. Last update was at 2015/08/09 21:29:55
jy2 wrote: A good army has the flexibility to go 1st or 2nd. However, it is indisputable that in the ITC format, there is an inherent advantage for most armies going 2nd. Really, whoever went 2nd in this game, whether Alan or me, had an inherent advantage, never mind the army. This goes beyond the army.
Which has been my major complaint with ITC missions for some time along with a lack of alternating maelstrom from secondary to primary between matches. For some reason however, that major weakness in the otherwise solid system remains. It really baffles me considering the strongest balancing factor maelstrom brought with it was eliminating the strong advantage second turn gives in traditional bottom of turn scoring (whether end of game or turn) especially to FMC armies.
Not a knock against Jim but he seems to often rely upon going second like back in the day when he rocked Cronz... like I said a lot of it is psychological .
Just an opinion, but sometimes rolling with a pure RPS list can have as much success as taking a TAC list. I'm actually not sure if the latter even exists anymore.
He took a strong bullrush list; and unfortunately he hit the paper to his rock. But, that may not have been the case. He could have gotten lucky...
Rule #1 is Look Cool.
2015/08/08 00:42:09
Subject: 1850 Hive Fleet Pandora Goes to the BAO GT 2015 (Game #4 Completed on p.3)
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
HH Imperial Militia/Cults - 1000 points Check out my P&M blog! (
Bretonnia - 4500 pts
on the Mishap chart, thus killing my mawloc.
The void shields stops my flyrant shooting cold.
