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 JamesY wrote:
Unless it is part of an end times story, I hope primarchs are never introduced to 40k. A massive part of the grimdarkness comes from the absence of the Emperor and the primarchs, leaving humanity alone, unguided and vulnerable. Bring any of them back, and that starts to vanish, and the mood changes.

That said, bring on the endtimes, I'd love to see Abaddon set foot on Terra...

Yeah, this.

They'll all come back in a blaze of f*ck-yeah-humanity, power-armoured-mary-sue blaze of glory, and then the universe is torn apart, half the armies are squatted and suddenly there's no points system anymore.

The End Times indeed.

It's less that the End Times would necessarily be a bad thing, it's more that I don't really trust GW to do it in a way that won't screw over every player who doesn't have an army in power armour...

I think it'll be awesome for them to bring back the Loyalist Primarchs, simply for the first conversation between Russ/The Lion/ Vulkan/Dorn/Corvus/Gulliman/The Khan and anybody in a position of power.

High Lord: "You have returned! Thank the Emperor in all his holiness!"

Russ:".........Holiness?"

Then blam, lots of heresy . Cue second Beheading.
Bonus points if it is Russ, because you just know he would tear gak up to correct it, the other Primarchs might let it slide. Plus he has a massive Legion that absolutely hates Inquisitors, ready to go usurping.

He is quite literally sleeping in a broom closet some where on the rock while the watchers in the dark baby sit him.

Im honestly thinking we might see him waking up very very soon.

With warzone fenris happening, its been all but confirmed that russ is leading the wolfin, and is back in the 40k world. With the rock hanging over fenris right now, its very possible that russ will go aboard the rock, be the only freaking person with half a brain to check the blood storage room and wake up his brother.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
He is quite literally sleeping in a broom closet some where on the rock while the watchers in the dark baby sit him.

Im honestly thinking we might see him waking up very very soon.

With warzone fenris happening, its been all but confirmed that russ is leading the wolfin, and is back in the 40k world. With the rock hanging over fenris right now, its very possible that russ will go aboard the rock, be the only freaking person with half a brain to check the blood storage room and wake up his brother.

I think someone, a guy who is known for being accurate in rumours, said Russ isn't the first primarch that comes back

I expect the Lion first, since the Dark Angels are on Fenris arn't they at this time?

LightKing wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
He is quite literally sleeping in a broom closet some where on the rock while the watchers in the dark baby sit him.

Im honestly thinking we might see him waking up very very soon.

With warzone fenris happening, its been all but confirmed that russ is leading the wolfin, and is back in the 40k world. With the rock hanging over fenris right now, its very possible that russ will go aboard the rock, be the only freaking person with half a brain to check the blood storage room and wake up his brother.

I think someone, a guy who is known for being accurate in rumours, said Russ isn't the first primarch that comes back

I expect the Lion first, since the Dark Angels are on Fenris arn't they at this time?

They are currently hanging over fenris right now, in the rock, about to bombard the gak outta it.



If the lion is the first to come back, as a massive nerd for the dark angels....Oh my, i think im getting the vapors.

 TheoreticalFish wrote:

Bonus points if it is Russ, because you just know he would tear gak up to correct it, the other Primarchs might let it slide. Plus he has a massive Legion that absolutely hates Inquisitors, ready to go usurping.

Russ would have the numerical equivalent of two Chapters at most with the Space Wolves. His only hope would be that other Space Marines and various influential figures in the Imperium side with him.

Backspacehacker wrote:With warzone fenris happening, its been all but confirmed that russ is leading the wolfin, and is back in the 40k world. With the rock hanging over fenris right now, its very possible that russ will go aboard the rock, be the only freaking person with half a brain to check the blood storage room and wake up his brother.

If I recall correctly one of the Dark Angels Codex's mentioned that the Lion was in fact awake and waiting for the Rock to arrive in the Cadian System.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 TheoreticalFish wrote:

Bonus points if it is Russ, because you just know he would tear gak up to correct it, the other Primarchs might let it slide. Plus he has a massive Legion that absolutely hates Inquisitors, ready to go usurping.

Russ would have the numerical equivalent of two Chapters at most with the Space Wolves. His only hope would be that other Space Marines and various influential figures in the Imperium side with him.

Backspacehacker wrote:With warzone fenris happening, its been all but confirmed that russ is leading the wolfin, and is back in the 40k world. With the rock hanging over fenris right now, its very possible that russ will go aboard the rock, be the only freaking person with half a brain to check the blood storage room and wake up his brother.

If I recall correctly one of the Dark Angels Codex's mentioned that the Lion was in fact awake and waiting for the Rock to arrive in the Cadian System.

I have not heard that last one, is that the newest codex?

Luther is in stasis and only un-frozen to talk with the Supreme Grand Master. He's gone quite mad over the course of 10k years but won't repent.

The Lion sleeps deep in a hidden chamber. Can his body survive such a long period with no sustenance? Is he even capable of waking up?

The Emperor is only physically alive (a few cells). Presumably if Cypher is to use the Lions sword to kill the Emperor then it will release his soul, cut the Astronomicon and destroy the Imperium as we know it.

Awesome (and grimdark)

Mellow wrote:
Luther is in stasis and only un-frozen to talk with the Supreme Grand Master. He's gone quite mad over the course of 10k years but won't repent.

The Lion sleeps deep in a hidden chamber. Can his body survive such a long period with no sustenance? Is he even capable of waking up?

The Emperor is only physically alive (a few cells). Presumably if Cypher is to use the Lions sword to kill the Emperor then it will release his soul, cut the Astronomicon and destroy the Imperium as we know it.

Awesome (and grimdark)

Isn't Cypher trying to save the Emperor, by finding a way to get in the palace, past the custodes and killing him, therefore allowing the Emperor to rebirth

he might be trying to "kill" the emperor, but not for malevolent reasons

LightKing wrote:

Mellow wrote:
Luther is in stasis and only un-frozen to talk with the Supreme Grand Master. He's gone quite mad over the course of 10k years but won't repent.

The Lion sleeps deep in a hidden chamber. Can his body survive such a long period with no sustenance? Is he even capable of waking up?

The Emperor is only physically alive (a few cells). Presumably if Cypher is to use the Lions sword to kill the Emperor then it will release his soul, cut the Astronomicon and destroy the Imperium as we know it.

Awesome (and grimdark)

Isn't Cypher trying to save the Emperor, by finding a way to get in the palace, past the custodes and killing him, therefore allowing the Emperor to rebirth

he might be trying to kill the emperor, but not for malevolent reasons

Thats what his theorized motives are, we have no actual bases for it other then each time he is sited, he is getting closer and closer to terra.

The lion is alive and so is his body, the watchers in the dark and looking after him.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

LightKing wrote:

Mellow wrote:
Luther is in stasis and only un-frozen to talk with the Supreme Grand Master. He's gone quite mad over the course of 10k years but won't repent.

The Lion sleeps deep in a hidden chamber. Can his body survive such a long period with no sustenance? Is he even capable of waking up?

The Emperor is only physically alive (a few cells). Presumably if Cypher is to use the Lions sword to kill the Emperor then it will release his soul, cut the Astronomicon and destroy the Imperium as we know it.

Awesome (and grimdark)

Isn't Cypher trying to save the Emperor, by finding a way to get in the palace, past the custodes and killing him, therefore allowing the Emperor to rebirth

he might be trying to kill the emperor, but not for malevolent reasons

Thats what his theorized motives are, we have no actual bases for it other then each time he is sited, he is getting closer and closer to terra.

The lion is alive and so is his body, the watchers in the dark and looking after him.

So is it fair to say Cypher, this lone Dark Angel is the most dangerous man in the Imperium, not in power....but in mystery

 Mantorok wrote:

He needs to wake up, and claim the place of warmaster that was rightfully his from the beginning.
The Lion seeks to reclaim his lost honor in the final battle, but if Fantasy was any indicator, there will be no honor to claim.

My dude.

 zgort wrote:

Samdecsameday wrote:
Thanks for all the info! What do you think the first thing he would do when he wakes up would be?

First thing, he has got to use the restroom. Like bad. Second thing, probably a coke and a big mac. After that, skies the limit.

Sorry, we don't have coke. Will a pepsi do?

On a serious note, I'm excited, and not excited for this. Thousand sons army? Finally? Thank you!!! Moving the story forward a little? Sweet! The Imperium starting to crumble under its own weight after 10,000 years? Excellent!

But...demon primarchs? Ugh. It's cool, but it's getting to the point where there's no mystery. I've always felt that the Primarchs and the Horus Heresy should be part of the legend, not the setting. The danger of advancing the story line is you change 40,000 from a setting to a story. And that's a little less exciting because your own stories feel like they have less of an impact.

And just not a fan of how the Dark Angels were treated in the Fenris story line. Or the Wulfen models.

That said, a Lion El'Johnson model would rock. I've got like 500 bucks saved away for when he and the Dark Angels come out from Forge World/Horus Heresy.

Anywho, I'm going into it with an open mind. Hope for the best.

Rant over.

LightKing wrote:

Mellow wrote:
Luther is in stasis and only un-frozen to talk with the Supreme Grand Master. He's gone quite mad over the course of 10k years but won't repent.

The Lion sleeps deep in a hidden chamber. Can his body survive such a long period with no sustenance? Is he even capable of waking up?

The Emperor is only physically alive (a few cells). Presumably if Cypher is to use the Lions sword to kill the Emperor then it will release his soul, cut the Astronomicon and destroy the Imperium as we know it.

Awesome (and grimdark)

Isn't Cypher trying to save the Emperor, by finding a way to get in the palace, past the custodes and killing him, therefore allowing the Emperor to rebirth

he might be trying to "kill" the emperor, but not for malevolent reasons

Maybe, but the sword he has is one of the few weapons in the universe that has the potential to kil lthe Emperor outright.

It's completely unknown whether Cypher knows this, whether it will actually kill the emperor, and if Cypher plans to try and kill Big E outright or kill him to resurrect him.

Really neat bit of mystery

Was Cypher around during the Heresy?

This is an old thread but it seems relevant, so no harm in leaving it open and continuing the discussion here, I think (in response to an alert)

LightKing wrote:
Was Cypher around during the Heresy?

Cypher is a title rather than a name. There was A dude called Cypher (actually I think there are three - original pre-legion, knight lupus guy, and his replacement) but if any of them are the 40k cypher we dont know for certain.

There's also the question of the first generation grey knight Epimethius, who was almost certainly originally a dark angel and may or may not have "traded destinies" with cypher.