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OK. I saw a battle report with some bloodreavers getting up to 4 attacks each. Not sure I understand.

They have base 1 attack, and I get that if they are within 12" of the blood secretor, they get an extra attack, and if the blood secretor uses his "Plant portal" thing in the hero phase, that's another additional attack. But that makes for only 3 attacks each, right?

Some of the bloodreaver models have the dudes wielding two blades, but that can't mean they get 1 attack for each blade they are modeled with, can it?

I've read the rules over again and again, and perhaps I'm daft, but it's just not clear to me.

annarborhawk wrote:
OK. I saw a battle report with some bloodreavers getting up to 4 attacks each. Not sure I understand.

They have base 1 attack, and I get that if they are within 12" of the blood secretor, they get an extra attack, and if the blood secretor uses his "Plant portal" thing in the hero phase, that's another additional attack. But that makes for only 3 attacks each, right?

Some of the bloodreaver models have the dudes wielding two blades, but that can't mean they get 1 attack for each blade they are modeled with, can it?

I've read the rules over again and again, and perhaps I'm daft, but it's just not clear to me.

There seems to be a lot of confusion in regards to multiple weapons. Some people think that if you have multiple of the same weapons, you get double the attacks AND whatever the rules say you get for multiple weapons (usually a re-roll to hit or something similar). Others think that if you have multiple of the same weapons that you just get the special rules.

I'm in the second camp. Given how the rules are written, I think the most reasonable interpretation is that you if you're equipped with "Two Hammers", you get the make a "Hammer" attack and then get the special rules for "More than one Hammer". The rules fall apart immediately when we say if you're equipped with "Two Hammers" you make two hammer attacks. Look at the Empire Master Engineer. He's equipped with "a few Pistols" and has "Pistol" listed under his attacks. How many Pistols can he attack with? A few? That only makes sense if we limit to one attach per weapon type with extras of the same weapon providing the rules listed.

Well the first camp would say count the number of pistols the master engineer is modeled with.

the rules for attacking refer to the warscroll as the place to determine what a model is armed with. the blood reaver war scroll just lists "reaver blades" in the plural. So that must be one attack for both blades.

But this strengthens camp two when, for example, a scroll lists "hand weapon" in the singular, but the model has more than one.

I see both sides to this.

A FAQ sure would be nice, but I doubt we will get one anytime soon.

Some models also go up in attacks on their scrolls when equipped with two weapons...one (dont remember which one right now) goes from 6 attacks with blade and shield to 8 attacks with two blades. I REALLY doubt GW intended that he gets 8 attacks for each of his blades then. And it doesn't say anywhere that a model in general gets an extra attack with two weapons.

I'm firmly in the first interpretation of the rules, ie, you get X attacks for each melee weapon you use.
The reason for this is that it does say how to handle multiple weapons in the base rules: a model has to attack with all the melee weapons it is equipped with. Each weapon has a number of attacks defined in its profile.

The algorythm, by the rules, is this:
1. select a melee weapon the model has equipped, and that has not been used to attack in this melee phase yet.
2. attack with the weapon.
3. repeat until no unused equipped melee weapons are left.

The fact that the model's profile gives an additional bonus for using a certain weapon loadout does not mean you get to disregard the more general rules, unless it explicitly says so in the model rules, or unless it changes a detail such as the number of attacks.
Furthermore, there are models equipped with different melee weapons and no special rule. How do you handle that? And why the arbitrary difference?

Attilla wrote:
Some models also go up in attacks on their scrolls when equipped with two weapons...one (dont remember which one right now) goes from 6 attacks with blade and shield to 8 attacks with two blades. I REALLY doubt GW intended that he gets 8 attacks for each of his blades then. And it doesn't say anywhere that a model in general gets an extra attack with two weapons.

I agree. This is just wishlisting on some peoples part. It's pretty easy to see how it works.

Guys, it tells you what weapons bloodreavers can have. In the bloodreaver's case, it states that they are armed with reaver blades. Since the profile of the weapon 'reaver blades' has 1 attack, no matter how many knifes the guy has, he can only make the amount of attacks that the first paragraph says he has. Look at the end of the very first paragraph for any unit to see what weapons it can have.

Not sure which army has the Bloodreavers but if the first paragraph reads they get reaver blades and the weapon entry says "Reaver Blades" Attacks 1, then yes, they would get just 1 attack no matter how many blades they have. I would argue though that if the weapon entry only reads "Reaver Blade" Attack 1 and the first paragraph reads they get a pair of reaver blades or two reaver blades (something like that) then they would get 2 attacks.

Same would go for the Skaven Warlord. It says in the first paragraph that it can take two barbed blades (notice, two is more than one) and the weapon entry says Barbed Blade (notice this is singular). Thus a Skaven Warlord would get 10 attacks. If the Warlord used the War Halberd and Barbed Blade (another weapon option) then it would get 8 attacks, 3 for the War Halberd and 5 from the Barbed Blade. With it being this way either weapon option is nice to have. The Barbed Blades get 10 attacks and re roll 1s to hit. The War Halberd gets the added range in melee, extra rend, easier to wound with, and more damage. Overall they are pretty equal.

So now the Orc Warboss. He can have two Boss Choppas, Massive Choppa, Whaaagh Banner, or Boss Choppa/Shield. So the Massive Choppa and Whaaagh Banner are simple enough. But the two Boss Choppas say they give you 8 attacks instead of 6. By the same logic used as with the Skaven Warlord that would give it 16 attacks. 16 attacks but no re rolls, only a -1 rend (still good, yes), 3+hit/3+wound but all only 1 damage. Sounds really good? Sure it does, but it is also on a single model with 6 wounds... shoot him down. The option of the Boss Choppa and Shield allows the Warboss to reroll all failed saves. That also is really good. Makes a tough nut to crack with having 6 wounds and 4+ save.

Dreadlord, same thing as Orc Warboss except having the bonus for dual wielding as the Skaven Warlord.

The only odd one would be the Empire Engineer with the description of "most carry a few pistols...". I would argue since they don't specifically say how many the Engineer has you couldn't put a number to it so you would go by the weapon profile in this case.

The main thing to watch for is in the weapon description. If the weapon description is plural then you would only get the attacks listed in the profile. But if the weapon profile is singular then that is the profile for ONLY one of that type of weapon. So having a pair of that weapon makes perfect sense to get double that weapon profile.

It does indeed say reaver blades then the profile so 1 attack as standard then bonus's are extra. Just checked the book.

They get 1 attack each per the warscroll. If you take a look at their ability "Frenzied Devotion"

Frenzied Devotion: If this unit is within 12" of a model with the Chaos and Totem keywords when it is selected to attack, then all models in this unit have 2 attacks rather than 1, and a Chieftan has 3 attacks rather than 2.

Pretty cut and dry to me.

+1 attack for totem in range
+1 attack for opening the portal of skulls
+1 attack if a unit is wiped out on the battlefield (battalion special rules for Khorne).

= 4 attacks

p.s. Reroll 1s to hit and preroll 1s to wound if whipped. Nasty unit if you buff them up. L2SYNERGY if playing AoS