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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




This purge, weeks ago passed the point of ridiculousness:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/14/atlanta-naacp-chapter-calls-for-removal-massive-confederate-sculpture-in-public/
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Yeah well good luck with that. A giant sculpture, even if it might depict less than admirable individuals somewhat, is a very different thing from flags on the local court house.

Nothing to see here but the NAACP overreaching once again where it doesn't really need to. Move along.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





TN/AL/MS state line.

Well, the city council in Memphis, TN wants to move Nathan Bedford Forrest's remains...
http://www.localmemphis.com/story/d/story/council-votes-to-move-nathan-bedford-forrests-rema/12440/x-aa6bzx80iy91LMR_yQ-g

Black Bases and Grey Plastic Forever:My quaint little hobby blog.

40k- The Kumunga Swarm (more)
Count Mortimer’s Private Security Force/Excavation Team (building)
Kabal of the Grieving Widow (less)

Plus other games- miniature and cardboard both. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Some of these need to come down.

Many of them were erected for the wrong reasons, and glorifying people who were Traitors, and allied to/fighting for a cause that was based upon an evil foundation is not something we should be honoring or glorifying.

Correcting mistakes of the past is what nations need to do in order to move past those mistakes.

As long as we continue to honor the Confederacy as any type of "Heroic figures" we will remain fighting the Civil War.

The South Lost. It is time we reinforced that fact.

MB
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





TN/AL/MS state line.

I disagree- they were still people, and had their own heroic moments. Not all who died for the Confederacy were evil monsters, nor all who fought for the Union saints. Keeping them in our minds reminds us that they were all people, good or bad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 01:28:26


Black Bases and Grey Plastic Forever:My quaint little hobby blog.

40k- The Kumunga Swarm (more)
Count Mortimer’s Private Security Force/Excavation Team (building)
Kabal of the Grieving Widow (less)

Plus other games- miniature and cardboard both. 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Chicago

Well considering that forrest is the closest you will get to a legit war criminal in the civil war and the first grand wizard/possible founder of the KKK I really don't see the problem moving his remains.

Ustrello paints- 30k, 40k multiple armies
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614742.page 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Sinful Hero wrote:
I disagree- they were still people, and had their own heroic moments. Not all who died for the Confederacy were evil monsters, nor all who fought for the Union saints. Keeping them in our minds reminds us that they were all people, good or bad.


So, this is a "Not all Nazis were Monsters" excuse?

It does not matter whether they were personally saints (although NONE were saints given they knew what they were fighting for).

Like those "Good men" fighting for the Third Reich, they lost any right to be celebrated by choosing to fight for a side that was based upon an evil premise or foundation.

They were fighting for a cause that was wrong.

They belong ONLY in Museums, and history books, NOT on monuments celebrating anything about them at all (no matter how good of a person they were).


And, as has been pointed out, Nathan Bedford Forrest was the founder of the KKK.

Like ALL of the other Confederates, he was fighting for a system that was based upon the premise that some men are created by God to be owned by others (who were chosen by God to lead the world).

Nathan Forrest just refused to stop fighting for what he believed in. It isn't like the other Confederates suddenly changed their minds simply because they lost. They remained people who believed they should be allowed to own human beings as slaves. They just lost any ability to do so.

And we should not be celebrating ANYONE who fought for the Confederacy, which was created in order to preserve and expand the institution of slavery.

MB
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




BeAfraid wrote:
Some of these need to come down.

Many of them were erected for the wrong reasons, and glorifying people who were Traitors, and allied to/fighting for a cause that was based upon an evil foundation is not something we should be honoring or glorifying.

Correcting mistakes of the past is what nations need to do in order to move past those mistakes.

As long as we continue to honor the Confederacy as any type of "Heroic figures" we will remain fighting the Civil War.

The South Lost. It is time we reinforced that fact.

MB


The same could be said of Washington and the other founding fathers had they lost the Revolutionary War.
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Chicago

Pro tip, they won so fake scenarios dont matter.

Ustrello paints- 30k, 40k multiple armies
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614742.page 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





TN/AL/MS state line.

BeAfraid wrote:
 Sinful Hero wrote:
I disagree- they were still people, and had their own heroic moments. Not all who died for the Confederacy were evil monsters, nor all who fought for the Union saints. Keeping them in our minds reminds us that they were all people, good or bad.


So, this is a "Not all Nazis were Monsters" excuse?

It does not matter whether they were personally saints (although NONE were saints given they knew what they were fighting for).

Like those "Good men" fighting for the Third Reich, they lost any right to be celebrated by choosing to fight for a side that was based upon an evil premise or foundation.

They were fighting for a cause that was wrong.

They belong ONLY in Museums, and history books, NOT on monuments celebrating anything about them at all (no matter how good of a person they were).


And, as has been pointed out, Nathan Bedford Forrest was the founder of the KKK.

Like ALL of the other Confederates, he was fighting for a system that was based upon the premise that some men are created by God to be owned by others (who were chosen by God to lead the world).

Nathan Forrest just refused to stop fighting for what he believed in. It isn't like the other Confederates suddenly changed their minds simply because they lost. They remained people who believed they should be allowed to own human beings as slaves. They just lost any ability to do so.

And we should not be celebrating ANYONE who fought for the Confederacy, which was created in order to preserve and expand the institution of slavery.

MB

You're assuming every soldier who fought for the Confederacy did so to support slavery. The fact is, all have many different reasons to fight. Robert E. Lee for example fought out of allegiance to his home state, despite his desire to keep the union intact.

Black Bases and Grey Plastic Forever:My quaint little hobby blog.

40k- The Kumunga Swarm (more)
Count Mortimer’s Private Security Force/Excavation Team (building)
Kabal of the Grieving Widow (less)

Plus other games- miniature and cardboard both. 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Chicago

Slavery/the aspiration to own slaves was a major reason.

Ustrello paints- 30k, 40k multiple armies
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614742.page 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Ustrello wrote:
Pro tip, they won so fake scenarios dont matter.


Pro tip, it was a very real possibility this would have happened, since they were being called traitors by the British and a good portion of their countrymen.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 01:59:55


 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Chicago

Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Pro tip, they won so fake scenarios dont matter.


Pro tip, it was a very real possibility this would have happened, since they were being called traitors by the British and a good portion of their countrymen.


They won so it literally does not matter, the south lost so they are traitors. Welcome to the real world.

Ustrello paints- 30k, 40k multiple armies
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614742.page 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Ustrello wrote:
Slavery/the aspiration to own slaves was a major reason.


I have a books worth of Civil war letters that give other major reasons also, such as state's rights. You also ignore the fact that slave holders in the Revolutionary War were fighting for the right to keep slaves while the British were freeing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ustrello wrote:
Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Pro tip, they won so fake scenarios dont matter.


Pro tip, it was a very real possibility this would have happened, since they were being called traitors by the British and a good portion of their countrymen.


They won so it literally does not matter, the south lost so they are traitors. Welcome to the real world.


Welcome to the world of historical rewrites, you mean, ignoring facts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 02:04:24


 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Chicago

Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Slavery/the aspiration to own slaves was a major reason.


I have a books worth of Civil war letters that give other major reasons also, such as state's rights. You also ignore the fact that slave holders in the Revolutionary War were fighting for the right to keep slaves while the British were freeing them.


The states right to have slaves, look at the declarations of secession most of them mention slavery in the first line or first few lines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Slavery/the aspiration to own slaves was a major reason.


I have a books worth of Civil war letters that give other major reasons also, such as state's rights. You also ignore the fact that slave holders in the Revolutionary War were fighting for the right to keep slaves while the British were freeing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ustrello wrote:
Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Pro tip, they won so fake scenarios dont matter.


Pro tip, it was a very real possibility this would have happened, since they were being called traitors by the British and a good portion of their countrymen.


They won so it literally does not matter, the south lost so they are traitors. Welcome to the real world.


Welcome to the world of historical rewrites, you mean, ignoring facts.


Oh boy you mean the south didn't lose the civil war?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 02:06:16


Ustrello paints- 30k, 40k multiple armies
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614742.page 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





TN/AL/MS state line.

 Ustrello wrote:
Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Pro tip, they won so fake scenarios dont matter.


Pro tip, it was a very real possibility this would have happened, since they were being called traitors by the British and a good portion of their countrymen.


They won so it literally does not matter, the south lost so they are traitors. Welcome to the real world.

"The Victors write the History" you mean. But they don't always write the truth.

Black Bases and Grey Plastic Forever:My quaint little hobby blog.

40k- The Kumunga Swarm (more)
Count Mortimer’s Private Security Force/Excavation Team (building)
Kabal of the Grieving Widow (less)

Plus other games- miniature and cardboard both. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




[url]
 Ustrello wrote:
Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Slavery/the aspiration to own slaves was a major reason.


I have a books worth of Civil war letters that give other major reasons also, such as state's rights. You also ignore the fact that slave holders in the Revolutionary War were fighting for the right to keep slaves while the British were freeing them.


The states right to have slaves, look at the declarations of secession most of them mention slavery in the first line or first few lines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Slavery/the aspiration to own slaves was a major reason.


I have a books worth of Civil war letters that give other major reasons also, such as state's rights. You also ignore the fact that slave holders in the Revolutionary War were fighting for the right to keep slaves while the British were freeing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ustrello wrote:
Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Pro tip, they won so fake scenarios dont matter.


Pro tip, it was a very real possibility this would have happened, since they were being called traitors by the British and a good portion of their countrymen.


They won so it literally does not matter, the south lost so they are traitors. Welcome to the real world.


Welcome to the world of historical rewrites, you mean, ignoring facts.


Oh boy you mean the south didn't lose the civil war?


You know what I meant. Still waiting on your take on the Revolutionary War heroes fighting to keep their slaves, which you are trying to sidestep.

Something for you to read:

http://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Founding-Fathers-and-Slavery-1269536

http://www.revolutionary-war.net/slavery-and-the-revolutionary-war.html

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/15 02:19:08


 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Chicago

Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Slavery/the aspiration to own slaves was a major reason.


I have a books worth of Civil war letters that give other major reasons also, such as state's rights. You also ignore the fact that slave holders in the Revolutionary War were fighting for the right to keep slaves while the British were freeing them.


The states right to have slaves, look at the declarations of secession most of them mention slavery in the first line or first few lines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Slavery/the aspiration to own slaves was a major reason.


I have a books worth of Civil war letters that give other major reasons also, such as state's rights. You also ignore the fact that slave holders in the Revolutionary War were fighting for the right to keep slaves while the British were freeing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ustrello wrote:
Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Pro tip, they won so fake scenarios dont matter.


Pro tip, it was a very real possibility this would have happened, since they were being called traitors by the British and a good portion of their countrymen.


They won so it literally does not matter, the south lost so they are traitors. Welcome to the real world.


Welcome to the world of historical rewrites, you mean, ignoring facts.


Oh boy you mean the south didn't lose the civil war?


You know what I meant. Still waiting on your take on the Revolutionary War heroes fighting to keep their slaves, which you are trying to sidestep.


Oh yeah because slavery was the first thing people were fighting for, not the taxes and lack of rights. No siree bob it was about slaves first and foremost, I mean its not as if the founding fathers wrote about keeping slaves in the first line of the declaration of independence.

Ustrello paints- 30k, 40k multiple armies
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614742.page 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





TN/AL/MS state line.

 Ustrello wrote:
Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Slavery/the aspiration to own slaves was a major reason.


I have a books worth of Civil war letters that give other major reasons also, such as state's rights. You also ignore the fact that slave holders in the Revolutionary War were fighting for the right to keep slaves while the British were freeing them.


The states right to have slaves, look at the declarations of secession most of them mention slavery in the first line or first few lines.

The state governments issued those declarations- that doesn't necessarily mean the people in those states agreed with them. Many had various other reasons to go ahead and fight for the Confederacy.

Black Bases and Grey Plastic Forever:My quaint little hobby blog.

40k- The Kumunga Swarm (more)
Count Mortimer’s Private Security Force/Excavation Team (building)
Kabal of the Grieving Widow (less)

Plus other games- miniature and cardboard both. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Ustrello wrote:
Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Slavery/the aspiration to own slaves was a major reason.


I have a books worth of Civil war letters that give other major reasons also, such as state's rights. You also ignore the fact that slave holders in the Revolutionary War were fighting for the right to keep slaves while the British were freeing them.


The states right to have slaves, look at the declarations of secession most of them mention slavery in the first line or first few lines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Slavery/the aspiration to own slaves was a major reason.


I have a books worth of Civil war letters that give other major reasons also, such as state's rights. You also ignore the fact that slave holders in the Revolutionary War were fighting for the right to keep slaves while the British were freeing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ustrello wrote:
Relapse wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
Pro tip, they won so fake scenarios dont matter.


Pro tip, it was a very real possibility this would have happened, since they were being called traitors by the British and a good portion of their countrymen.


They won so it literally does not matter, the south lost so they are traitors. Welcome to the real world.


Welcome to the world of historical rewrites, you mean, ignoring facts.


Oh boy you mean the south didn't lose the civil war?


You know what I meant. Still waiting on your take on the Revolutionary War heroes fighting to keep their slaves, which you are trying to sidestep.


Oh yeah because slavery was the first thing people were fighting for, not the taxes and lack of rights. No siree bob it was about slaves first and foremost, I mean its not as if the founding fathers wrote about keeping slaves in the first line of the declaration of independence.


You should read history a little bit more carefully or speak with some of the British Dakka posters.
   
Made in ru
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Room

This purge, weeks ago passed the point of ridiculousness:

Oh, it's not good. Destroying own history is acting like aliens to their own country.
In Russia, it happen many times. During Peter I europesation, bolsheviks revolution, 1989-1991 events.
But in Finland they have Mannerheim, Alexander tsar and Lenin in almost same place and don't bother about it.
history should be remembered, not hated and erased

Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
 
   
Made in us
Sniping Reverend Moira





Cincinnati, Ohio

 Ustrello wrote:
Pro tip, they won so fake scenarios dont matter.


Saying "Pro Tip" really adds an air of respectability to your posts.

All of this is getting incredibly, incredibly tiresome.

 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran






Canberra

Didn't the Spanish Inquisition have a habit of doing that? Exhuming corpses in general I mean, not Nathan Bedford Forrest in particular.

It's probably not a good sign when society is heading back down that path.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





TN/AL/MS state line.

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:
Didn't the Spanish Inquisition have a habit of doing that? Exhuming corpses in general I mean, not Nathan Bedford Forrest in particular.

It's probably not a good sign when society is heading back down that path.

If I recall everything correctly, his family donated the land to the city on condition of his remains and such being kept there. They already changed the name of the park, which caused a ruckus itself. Of course they haven't dug him out yet- they still have several steps to proceed through before they get to that.

Black Bases and Grey Plastic Forever:My quaint little hobby blog.

40k- The Kumunga Swarm (more)
Count Mortimer’s Private Security Force/Excavation Team (building)
Kabal of the Grieving Widow (less)

Plus other games- miniature and cardboard both. 
   
Made in ru
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Room

Look what happened in Russia: We had civil war too. And bolsheviks won.
"Winner writes history", yeah? And they rewrited history of Russia as it all way to communism utopia and tsarist Russia was evil. Actually It was, in some cases (90% uneducated and poor peasants). But bolsheviks used some historical bandits for propaganda, rewriting history as they were "fighters for freedom"
But in 1991 communists no more.
Again re-writing history?
How many times it should be rewrited and how many historical monuments should be destroyed? under the influence of momentary trends

Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Freakazoitt wrote:
This purge, weeks ago passed the point of ridiculousness:

Oh, it's not good. Destroying own history is acting like aliens to their own country.
In Russia, it happen many times. During Peter I europesation, bolsheviks revolution, 1989-1991 events.
But in Finland they have Mannerheim, Alexander tsar and Lenin in almost same place and don't bother about it.
history should be remembered, not hated and erased


Welcome to the U.S in the 2010's, or any other point in time the mob is told what to believe.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 03:10:50


 
   
Made in jp
Fixture of Dakka





Japan

Political Correctness has become a blight on humanity, so it may offend some people? Big deal, it happened, educate not eradicate history.

Squidbot;
"That sound? That's the sound of me drinking all my paint and stabbing myself in the eyes with my brushes. "
My Doombringer Space Marine Army
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Imageshack deleted all my Images Thank you! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Political Correctness has become a blight on humanity, so it may offend some people? Big deal, it happened, educate not eradicate history.


Amen, brother.
   
Made in us
Sniping Reverend Moira





Cincinnati, Ohio

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Political Correctness has become a blight on humanity, so it may offend some people? Big deal, it happened, educate not eradicate history.


We live in a country where loser dads complain about a Slave Leia toy.

Par for the course.

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




The U.S. flag flew over a country where slavery was an institution for decades longer that a Confederate flag did.
   
 
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